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This is a somewhat ridiculous situation but I am curious to hear outside thoughts.
I had a few folks over for dinner. All was well, then somehow it was mentioned that one of the guests was very ticklish. Later in the evening, when that woman walked by another guest (they are long time friends) he started to tickle her. Of course she screamed and told him to stop etc. He finally did and she told him to grow up.
I went into the kitchen sometime later and could hear a commotion. I poked my head out and he was once again tickling her. She was pinned into a corner on the floor. I thought it was stupid and yelled at him to stop as did others. But I went on into the kitchen, afterall how big of a deal is a tickle fight? Well, to my absolute shock I soon hear him scream at the top of his lungs and people gasping. I run into the living room and he is on the ground and she is now standing saying “I told you to get off of me”. I am told that while he had her pinned on the floor, she bit his arm, and punched him in the stomach, hard. He was doubled over. She was visibly upset, grabbed her things and left.
I couldn’t believe it, these are professional mature people in their 30s. No alcohol. She is the least violent person I know and I sort of feel like this was a very extreme reaction to being tickled, although I do think he should have cut it out. She emailed me that night to apologize for the commotion and said she didn’t know how else to get him to stop and that she felt violated. I didn’t see all that was happening but I trust that is how she felt. They are apparently not speaking now. Do you think she was in any way justified? Was there something I should have done different as a host to get him to leave her alone?
If she told him to stop and he didn't stop then she did what she had to to get him off of her. How well do you know this woman? Something could have happened to her in the past that triggered her defensive side.
This is a tough situation, but if she was asking him to stop (like the first time) he should have respected her wishes, it doesn't matter if they are friends he took it too far and she didn't want to be touched. I think bitting him might be extreme but if that was the only way to get him to stop then it worked. Hope it all works out but they both owe each other an apology and you being the host!
Thanks for the thoughts. I have been friends with her for nearly a decade. She is very calm and quiet, he is rambucious and silly. They've been friends even longer than I have been friends with either of them. I dont know if anything has happened in her past but I know she does not like people in her personal space too much (not a hugger etc.). Well, except her husband. She did also mention that she was embarassed and upset because her dress was riding up while he had her on the floor...
@Fies: Well there ya go, she doesn't like her personal space invaded. He should have stopped after the first time. I probably wouldn't have bitten the guy but everyone handles situations like that differently.
Being pinned down and tickled is one of the most horrifying things, lol. It's AWFUL, and if someone already doesn't like their space being invaded, it makes it doubly awful. I know that when I get pinned down, my fight instinct totally kicks in and I don't care if it's my 85 year old grandma doing the pinning, I'm gonna fight like a wildcat to GTFO of that situation. OP, the hostess, told him to stop, the other guests told him to stop, and most importantly, your tickled friend told him to stop. I'm sure she wasn't smiley or joke-y when she said it, too. He should have backed off when she was serious and said stop...I would say he kinda had it coming.
I agree with the above posters, they totally behaved inappropriately but she was fine reacting how she did. He should have stopped after being told (repeatedly), and sometimes jokes go too far. Even when my little brothers (who are bigger than me) or my FI hold me down to tickle me, my reactions just kick in and I've most definitely hit them in the balls or the throat just to get them off of me.
Even if she had no prior bad experience in her past, being held down can just really freak someone out, especially if she was wearing a dress and becoming embarrassed. She's already apologized to you, but I think he is the one who owes both of you an apology. I think you did fine as a host, you shouldn't have to babysit adults, but I think she was justified and he learned that you can take a joke too far.
@NDBee:If she is a married woman it can be very offensive and violating to have another man grabbing you all over your body. Her dress was rising up and she was being held against her will. I am not a violent person but in that case I would have picked up something and bust him in the fucking head. He had no right to do that and she can do whatever she feels is needed to free herself from a man unwanted touches. No means no, I hope he learned his lesson.
I believe she was ABSOLUTELY justified. I mean, it would have been great if she hadn't bit him, but being PINNED TO THE FLOOR and tickled against your will (and, as a ticklish person I will say that it is really awful to be tickled...it's not cute, it's not fun, it's awful) is an unpleasant enough experience to lead a person to do whatever it takes to get out of the situation.
Legally, touching someone against their will is battery, and hopefully your friend that was doing the tickling learned a lession.
As an aside, it certainly wasn't a boring party!
I would have done the same thing. The guy sounds like a creep for even touching someone in a personal way without knowing her.
I too believe she was absolutely justified in punching him. He was harassing her and no one (apparently) was helping her. Maybe if it was the first time, yes, no punch, but she already politely asked him to stop, he then pinned her down!?!?! Safety trumps etiquette- always. He should be the one apologizing to her and you.
She was absolutely in the right here, I would've down the exact same thing (bite and all). If someone refuses to let go/stop tickling after I've asked them to stop, all hell breaks loose.
Tickling is a form of torture. She warned him, twice, and he didn't listen to her or any of the other guests' reactions asking him to stop. Her personal space was completely invaded, cornering her and then pinning her to the floor *and* she was humiliated in front of other people. She was completely justified in her self defense. He owes her and you and your guests a sincere apology.
Jesus. He needs to learn that NO means fucking NO. For anyone who's ever been raped, a situation like that can trigger a flashback and be extremely traumatic. Even for someone who hasn't been, having someone physically hold you down and touch you against your will - well, that's assault. She was absolutely within her rights to do what she did. Maybe that will teach him that woman's bodies - even those of his friends - are not his to do with what he wants.
p.s. If I were you I'd give her a call today to make sure she's ok, tell her you understand her reaction, and that you will tell this guy that he's never to do that again in your home.
I think she's fine. She asked him to stop repeatedly. It's not pleasant being tickled, especially if she's pinned down and her skirt is riding up. I know for me, if I'm tickled incessantly, (TMI coming up), it makes me feel like I'm not going to be able to control my bladder.
I would sure as hell bite someone before I peed my pants (or skirt in this case) in public.
@Fies: I would have probably had the same reaction because of past events. Being pinned down with no control is scary to some people and if she went into survival mode then she was well within her right. She told him to stop and he couldn't let it go. He deserved it IMO.
She was absolutely in the right, and the guy that did that to her was WAY WAY WAY out of line. Holding a woman against her will and touching her in ANY way, tickling or not, is a form of assault. She told him "no" multiple times and he continued to take control of her body and do things to her that she did not want him to do. She felt violated because she WAS being violated. Honestly, I wouldn't want the man that did that to her in my house ever again. If I were you I would call her and talk to her and make sure she is okay and let her know that she did nothing wrong. I would have done the same thing if it had made him get off of me. He had her pinned to the FLOOR?? SERIOUSLY? I just can't even begin to tell you how messed up I think that is. Seriously. Creepy. Poor woman--what a horrible way for her evening to go.
I don't think she was wrong. She is very ticklish= it downright hurts being tickled. No one wants someone to keep doing that. I would have done the same, especially if I told him no once. I don't know that dude like that.
I think she is is completely justified. I would have punched him too. He was being completely thoughtless and owes her an appology.
It is justified as a very ticklish person myself it is compleatly painful to be tickled even thought I am laughing (involuntarily). You can't speak in that situation and your body takes over and lashes out to make it stop, it is almost involuntary. I've hurt my FI in this way becasue he loves to tickle me. But it is his fault and he knows what will happen but he just loves to do this so much.
This is the way I see it: He had her PINNED DOWN on the floor in the middle of a crowd of people, she ASKED (and then TOLD) him to stop & he didn't, and she had expressed to him before that she DID NOT want him to tickle her. But most of all, he was holding her down. I would have kicked/punched/spit/kicked, done WHATEVER it took to get that bastard OFF of me. Maybe it was a trigger in some other sense as well (ex. if she's ever been assaulted, physically or sexually, or even just harrassed).
So basically, YES, I think she was justified, and I also believe that the onus for the entire situation is on that "gentleman", for being such an ass.
Thanks everyone for the perspectives, it has helped me to see the situation a bit differently and have more of an understanding of how she could have ended up reacting so strongly. I feel bad that I didn’t more seriously address the situation. I think I was just dumbfounded that he was behaving so immaturely, but didn’t think about how upset it could make her.
I am going to go see her this week to return her boots that she left behind. I’ll try to let her know she needn’t feel bad about what happened. I still haven’t heard from him and don’t feel like reaching out right now.
@Soladylike: I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me, but I feel the same way you do. Maybe my post wasn't as clear as I meant, but yes, physically violent reactions are not unexpected (and, IMO, they're justified) in a situation when some is pinned down and is embarrassed/scared. Especially after being told no multiple times.
@NDBee:I 100% agree with you. I would have hit him in the head with something. Seriously. I too am a person that is careful about who is in my personal space and who touches me. Just because I am friends with a man does not mean he can touch me. Period. I just don't play those types of games. He deserved to get his ass kicked and he is lucky her husband did not get aggressive with him. My SO would have been pissed if someone upset and violated me like that.
I think she her reaction was completely justified and he owes her an apology.
Like a PP mentioned, tickling is a form of torture. I absolutely cannot tolerate being tickled--it's the worst feeling that I can think of. I actually slapped someone across the face once because they WOULD NOT STOP.
I think an adult tickling an adult is weird too. I don't want anyone aside from my bf/fiance/husband touching areas that are normally ticklish.
I'm not saying you should get involved, but if he asks why she's not speaking to him I think *maybe* you should consider explaning how violated she felt and why it was so uncomfortable for her. He owes her an apology.
im another who thinks she was justified. who cares if it was "just" tickling - he was using his size to physically restrain her and forcing her to do something she didnt want to do, despite her asking numerous times to stop
i wish she kicked him in the nuts for good measure
oh my gosh-- i HATE being tickled. hate it hate it. i am soo ticklish and I feel so completely out of control. i have definitely hit my FI realllly hard to make him stop, and he is the man I love! now he understands it's not funny to me so he rarely does it and if so, only for a few seconds cause he knows the awful reaction I have. if it were just a friend tickling me to no end. . oh yeah, i would have been that girl for sure. biting, hitting, screaming, whatever the heck I needed to do to make him stop. makes me mad just thinking about it.
She is absolutely justified. She was violated and probably extremely uncomfortable and in pain. I am very ticklish too and I would have probably done the same thing in her situation. Being tickled isn't fun when you don't want to be, it can begin to hurt and honestly if somebody kept touching me when I asked them not to, I would get REALLY angry.
If I had been observing the situation, I probably would have pulled him off myself and if I couldn't, I would have probably started hitting him. In fact, I am shocked none of the other dinner guests did anything more than tell him to stop when they saw the image of a poor woman being pinned to the floor and touched against her will. I get that none of them took it that seriously when it was happening (which is disturbing in and of itself) but the fact that it seems no one understood the freak out totally baffles me. SHE WAS BEING ASSAULTED! Just because they were friends does not make it justified (date rape, anyone?) In my opinion, she would have been justified doing just about anything to make him stop.
"She felt violated"
She, you and others told him to stop, he didn't, she felt violated.... the guy is clearly in the wrong here. It doesn't matter if he thinks it was "only" tickling or if he is a naturally goofy guy. He crossed the line and owes both of you an apology.
My heart goes to your friend...she is probably feeling humiliated- she was practically groped in front of a group of friends, her dress was riding up, a guy was on her and wouldn't get off...and she's the one that had to run out to get away.
If you talk to the guy friend, I would try to get him to see why his actions are not ok. He might not even realize how inappropriate he was, which is sad but some people don't get it.
My FI is very ticklish and he said when people tickle him it isn't funny that it actually hurts. He doesn't like it and will do anything to make it stop. I can see how your friend might have felt violated. She told him to stop and he kept on so I don't blame her for doing whatever it takes to make it stop. I don't think she owes him any apology. He should have stopped.
I don't mind being tickled (kinda irritating but it's not too bad) but if anyone pins me down whether playing or not I go crazy, I will do anything I can to get out of being pinned, I just cannot handle the thought of being trapped- I'd rip someone's head off if it meant getting out of it (SO has been whacked several times in the privates over the years when he's tried to pin me when we've been playing around) so on that level I completely get where she was coming from and I would have done the exact same thing.
He should have listened to her the first time he tickled her and she said to stop, don't feel bad about not doing more to stop it, with this sort of thing you never really know how much something like that bothers someone until after it's done and I would have done the same as you.
I'd punch a dude in the face and balls if he was on top of me and wouldn't stop. Wtf? HE owes everybody an apology, and a very, very, very sincere one to her.
What is that guys problem? He does need to grow up! I agree with ejs... he owes everyone an apology! No one has the right to invade your personal space, especially after she repeatedly told him to back off. He's lucky all she did was bite & punch him in the gut. Personally, I would have gone for the eyes...
Who tickles anyone over the age of 7? This is completely inappropriate behavior for someone in their 30s.
Yes she was absolutely justified. He was way out of line - what makes him think it's ok to touch another person (and continue to do so) after she told him no? I would have punched him in the face.
I'm sorry, but he totally deserved it. She warned him multiple times and he kept doing it. I think he needs to apologize.
I don't think there's a lot you could've done seeing as how they knew each other pretty well, and short of pulling him off her, what could you have done? Other people had already told him to cut it out and he didn't listen.
I know you said you're going to see her later this week, but as a previous poster suggested, I'd definitely call her today to apologize for not realizing just how upset she was by the whole situation. The "she needn't feel bad" part could actually backfire on you--depending on how upset she was by the whole thing, her response could be "damn straight I shouldn't feel bad!", leaving her angry at you. Of course if she says she's embarrassed, etc., then that's an appropriate comment, but it's not where I'd start the conversation at.
Are you kidding? OF COURSE she was justified. Put yourself in her shoes: wouldn't you feel violated if a male acquaintance had you pinned in a corner and started touching you all over your body--and did this repeatedly after being told to stop? I'd leave the dinner party too, frankly!
I don't care if it was a friend or if you want to call it "tickling"--if you wouldn't do it to your boss, don't do it at a dinner party. And don't keep doing it after a woman says "no" and then act surprised when she kicks your balls.
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