- Blog
- Bios
- Boards
- Classifieds
- DIY
- Gallery
- Vendor Reviews
- Shop Weddingbee
Weddingbee boards
My fiance and I have been engaged for a little over 4 months now. I have been struggling trying to plan our wedding - we live in Florida, the wedding is in Michigan. It has been very challanging and I will admit, i've been super stressed out, snippy, short, pretty much - a beast. My fiance travels for work and is only home 2 days a week... so basically, im on my own. The other day, we just finished talking about picking hotels for our guests to reserve and he just comes out and says... what do you think about a prenup? Mind you, we've already discussed how I felt about one way before we got engaged - the discussion was that I would never marry anyone who wanted me to sign a prenup - unless his family was very wealthy - then I would understand the need to protect family assets. Im my eyes, a prenup is a way to prepare for divorce. I come from a very large family, no prenups, no divorces. He on the other hand, comes from the total opposite... So I can understand his fear. I am truely upset, as is my family. If he thinks im going to leave after we are married, then why even bother getting married? I need some advice. I feel like things have turned for the worse. I don't want to marry someone who doesn't respect the vows we are about to take.
So sorry. Perhaps this is nerves on his part, since he has seen divorce in his own family. Are his parents divorced? If so, there could be even deeper issues with him. Maybe you can see a counselor to build a stronger relationship, so he doesn't feel uneasy?
I could see why this bothers you. If it was me I would try to get to the bottom of it, before signing anything and before just calling it quits.
Good luck.
I'm all for prenups when one person has a lot of assets or is very wealthy and/or family stuff going on. I hate it to look like you're preparing for divorce, but in reality, that's life, isn't it? Somebody is covering their butt. You don't ever PLAN on divorcing, but let's face it, nobody does when they get married!
We discussed having a prenup. I have a lot of family assets and a significant amount of wealth to deal with. When I floated it by him, he said "sure, that's fine. I hope we never need it, so I don't care if we have one". So there's the rebuttal argument to the argument that he doesn't trust you, etc. There's a spin you probably hadn't considered before. We always get so defensive when WE are asked to sign a prenup, but we need to consider if the shoe was on the other foot. I'm not naive about my marriage. I never plan on having a divorce and I know our communication skills are strong enough to handle anything thrown our way. I also know that life is tough and someitmes a break up is inevitable. And in 20 years, if something hellish happens to us, I'd be foolish to piss away half the family fortune to a guy I'm no longer with, right? Boy my family would kill me =].
So if you're protecting yourself with a prenup, you're a bad person and not trusting. But on the other hand, if you have one AND need it, you're smart, right? It's really a double edged sword.
Why does he want one?
Oh and I will say it's a lot easier to hash out a prenup on friendly terms so that everybody agrees than it is to have a knock-down-drag-out divorce.
We like to think we are exempt from these behaviors, but in reality, it's not awlays the case. I'm not a skeptical person by nature, but Im not going to say that so and so loves me too much to *ever* hurt me. There are too many encore brides on here that will beg to differ and got blindsided.
Yeah, I agree that we all don't plan on getting divorced, but it could happen and you need to protect yourself. Neither of us have a significant amount of wealth personally or in our families. But if we did, I would want a pre-nup, pure and simple.
Esj- I completely agree with you. Im in the same boat as you, having family assests and such. Luckily FI agreed to sign the prenup, stating that he would never want to take my family's money, but that he understands it important to my family to have that piece of mind with the money.
Heatherlynn- I would suggest really talking to your FI about the situation. My family is very small, and my parents are divorced, after 20 years of marriage. I understand where he is coming from. Having divorced parents isn't easy, and it brings up a lot of thoughts when it comes to your own marriage. Just understand where he is coming from, and just becuase you sign a prenup, it doesn't mean he doesnt believe in the marriage, its just a precaution, since half of all marriages end in divorce.
JMHO ... if someone felt strongly that I needed to sign a pre-nup I would walk.
FH's family have fairly significant assets, and there are ways to protect them without making someone feel like their marriage is doomed to fail. They haven't asked any of the potential spouses to sign a pre-nup.
How strongly does he feel the need for one? Maybe nerves are getting to the both of you ... I mean, it could definitely be nerves with your stress levels elevated that he's thinking you're thinking it's way too much. I would say this deserves a very long discussion ... maybe even writing things down like the questions you may have for him in an effort to prevent an argument.
There's a reason you're engaged to him, I'm sure you love him very much and that he feels the same way - so I would definitely suggest figuring out why, first.
Even though I have always said I would walk away before signing a prenup ... I don't think the walking should be done quite yet.
I would say that it also depends on what state you live in. I'm not sure the laws around Florida, but in Pennsylvania, once we were married, what's his is mine and what's mine is his. It doesn't matter what you had prior to getting married...Pennsylvania is an equitable distribution state, which means that the assets will be divided on what is fair, not necessarily 50/50. So depending on if Florida is like that, a prenup wouldn't do much good for him anyway.
But, I completely understand where you're coming from. If my husband asked me to sign a prenup, I would be crushed. I agree with you in that he's already dooming the marriage before it even starts. Lots of hugs...hope everything works out, and he comes to his senses.
When I asked why the need or the thought for a prenup now? He said that my behavior lately has prompted him to look into a prenup. I had asked what the prenup would be for... we both don't have any assets worth fighting for, he explained that it would be so that if I left him, he wouldn't have to pay alimony.
If he is asking for a prenup because of your current behavior, then that is really disconcerting. If he is gone five days a week, you must be stuck with the vast majority of the wedding planning from a distance and are probably pretty stressed out (in your situation I would be completely insane and a candidate for Bridezillas). I almost lost my mind and I was planning a local wedding, with lots of help from a really supportive groom.
Is there any room in your budget for a wedding planner? Sometimes they can pay for themselves if they know high quality low cost vendors to recommend.
In addition, you might want to consider couples counseling.
Also, if you choose to sign a prenup, make sure that you aren't agreeing to waive alimony if you give up your job to raise children. If you choose to make career sacrifices for your family, you want to make sure that you are protected.
Whoa, 'your behavior'? I think couples' counseling is in order. It doesn't sound like you both are communicating very well and this is a hot-button issue. A safe, neutral space with someone who can help both of you understand each other sounds like a very good idea. In the meantime, easier said than done, try not to discuss it too much?
It's not a plan for a divorce. It's an agreement to be fair to one another should a divorce happen by making plans while you love and are generous with each other, rather than when you're both angry and hurt.
If you're uncomfortable with one, you certainly don't have to sign one, although I don't the harm if it protects your interests as well. But think about it some more and try to be able to give a reasoned argument to go without one if you don't want it... maybe your fi will understand.
I know there are a lot of misconceptions about prenups these days. I think the most important thing is to first figure out what your FI wants from the prenup. Prenups cover a lot more than who gets what in a divorce. Does your FI have a lot of family assets or a personal business that will remain his? Prenups can be used to make sure that debts/assets stay where they should belong - like the previous poster said, once you're married many states consider all property "marital property" without consideration of who owned what before the wedding. Maybe he has a business with his brother and they don't want a "silent partner" per se. Does he have a lot of debt? In that case, you could designate that his debt remains his responsibility. That could protect you and your future children from having to shoulder his debt. Do either of you have kids from another marriage? Prenups can be used as estate planning tools, making sure you can provide for your other kids, when a will can be overturned. Are you planning on quitting your job to raise the kids? A prenup can include provisions to compensate you for your interruption in your career while raising the kids. I'm not saying a prenup is right for everyone (or that I wouldn't be a little hurt if he asked me for one), but give it a little more thought...it could be a really great method of protecting yourself. I know it's hard to separate emotions for the "marriage" but you should look at this as a business arrangement as well. You'd never buy a business or merge assets with a company without protecting yourself...
Heatherlynn - I think both of you need to take a step back and remember why you became engaged in the first place. Obviously the stress of planning this wedding has gotten to you both. Your overwhelmed and acting out and he has no idea what to do with this new behavior.
The prenup is not going to fix either of these issues. I really suggest seeking out premarriage counseling. You both need to work these issues out together in a nonjudgemental environment. You need to work on how your stress affects him and he needs to learn how to handle you (not meant in a negative way, we all "handle" our SOs and vice versa).
It's important for you to know how your actions affect him and it's important for him to learn how to help you when you aren't your fabulous self (we all can't be amazing all of the time). What happens when you have kids and you get completely stressed - what is he going to do then? Or what happens if one of you gets a serious illness, etc.
This is not at all a criticism. It's all just part of a growing relationship. Take this opportunity to strengthen your relationship and then see he still feels the need for a prenup.
Ok, thanks for the clarifications. I think you have a bigger problem at hand than the prenup. Prenup aside...
Your behavior has changed. And he is alarmed by it. I think he approached the situation poorly by throwing up a prenup and should have said something to you about the behavior. You're stressed, you got a lot on your plate, etc. Understandable, but you're scaring your FI. Which means it's not just a LITTLE bit, it's a lot.
I think you guys need a neutral environment to discuss this out and chill out a little. His reason for not wanting to pay you alimony is just absurd. Alimony has its place and time (ie like a PP mentioned above you make career sacrifices for his childen) although I am a firm believer in making your own way as much as possible and I have a degree that allows me to do such. But, his comment eludes to the fact that he's afraid you're going to turn into some crazy controlling, who knows what kind of lady in a few years. He's warning you in his not so delicate way that he doesn't like the atittude you've adopted. We've all been there. Sometimes I get a certain way and DH is like "what's up with you? you're not being normal" although i will say i'm sorry your FI didn't handle this more tactfully.
You guys need a chat big time. I suggest some premartial cousneling like many others above. It'll help you resolve some issues. OBvoiusly you both are having some trust issues with your personalities. Good luck!
I would never sign a pre nup, I believe that when a couple gets married, they become one. This means debt, assets, everything. What happened for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health. Call me traditional or whatever, but that's what I believe God intended marriage to be.
By today's standards a pre nup is just what ejs said about it being a double edged sword it is pre emptive, very acceptable by today's standards, but i feel that i'm called to God's standards, so that's why I would never be with someone who would even think in that direction.
If there is a way out.. aka divorce, than if things get tough that's what will be taken.
If there is no way out, bound together for life, than I feel people duke it out and learn what commitment is all about. (yes I know that in cases of abuse and such that there are exceptions)
Thank you all for all your great advice. The only thing i'm fearful of is that, we've already been through counseling... Although I am very open to trying it again, probably seeking a different therapist this time around.
I just never thought planning a wedding/being engaged would be like this. I pictured laughter, romance, excitment and fun. It has been the total opposite for me. I somtime think that everything happens for a reason... am I missing something?
My opinion is that it protects both of you. I don't know anything about prenups .. but I think that you both should seek lawyers.
I think maybe just slow down a little. Let him get comfortable and maybe give him some projects to handle so he sees how tough it is and understands why your stressed. It's sad that he is commenting on your behavior in that manner. I really think going to another counseling session where he can talk about his fear of how you've changed a little and you can calmly explain that this isn't how you are, it's just you have what I like to call wedding brain.
A lot of wedding planning wasn't much fun for me either. And planning from a distance probably is even less fun. But my husband really stepped up and took a really active role in helping me plan because he wanted to make me happy and help ease my stress.
Ensuring one spouse doesn't pay alimony isn't really the purpose of a prenup. It is to protect parties in the case of significant assets or debt. It sounds like neither of those situations exist here and I would encourage you to not sign away your right to be protected in the case of a divorce.
I agree with previous posters, the comment about 'your behavior' is disconcerting. It seems like he is using this to create a fight, or a potential 'out.' He isn't happy with how you have been acting, and this is an issue he knows you will stand firm on. You need to have a serious conversation about what is really going on. We attended counseling with some one who frankly, made it worse, and it seems like you may have had a similarly negative experience. I would keep looking until you found someone who works for you.
If planning a wedding is turing you into 'a beast,' it may be time to take a step back. We all get caught up in the stress of planning. It is inevitable. But ultimately this is just a party, and it isn't worth compromising the health or happiness of your relationship.
Good luck.
I dont know if you do planning stuff while he's home, but maybe make those two days a week that he's there wedding free days. Tons of couples need to do this at least once a week because it IS stressful and it starts to consume your whole life. Definitely take a step back, breathe, and remember what the day is really about-- the two of you declaring your love to each other and making the promise of a lifetime together. That's all you need! Don't stress so much about the rest
I'm with you, H.
I would never marry anyone who wanted a prenup. Period.
Either we are going to be Family or we are not.
i agree w/ ejs - it seems there is more going on than just his concerns about protecting assets. could you take some time out for both of you to talk face to face about what his concerns are (it might take a while for him to disclose that) and the issues you're dealing with (that he may not be aware of)? if you've been through counselling once already, is it worthwhile to do it another time? how did you feel coming out of the last sessions?
@GretaEhm, that's insulting. I understand when some people belive you are "all in, assets wise" and completely respect that opinion, but c'mon, to imply that people who have prenups are not really family is not cool.
To the OP,
Were these issues addressed with the first round of counseling? Or are his responses to your behavior "new"?
A second go at it could help tremendously. Then again, if he can just sit down and amicably explain. Being with someone is all about hard work and plugging away at it.
That being said, if there are issues going on, your FI may be crying out that the wedding is making him stop and think and it might be wise (now, or in the future, you know what i mean) to put it on hold in order to straighten out your relationship before trekking down the aisle. There is no shame in being wise enough to realize the task at hand is more important to deal with than your impending nuptials.
I think you guys need to stop planning a wedding and figure out your relationship first. If you have already tried counseling and things are still not right then you need to ask yourself why.
MY FI is a pilot and is gone 3-4 days a week. I'm planning a wedding 5 hours from my house. I'm not stressed out about planning the wedding. I don't get much help from him besides what I can email him or tell him on the phone. I think you need to take a break from the planning and find that happy place again. Yes there are going to be things that come up while planning that gets you worked up. But it shouldn't be an everyday thing or for every task at hand.
Good luck!
I agree that this discussion could feel shocking and confusing, but I think, not knowing either one of you (you or your FI) personally, it sounds more like a planning ahead thing than anything. Honestly, in a roundabout way, it's more a reassurance thing about your relationship than a troubling thing - that you'll both be 'cared for' for whatever life throws at you.
@ejs - I don't think Greta meant that anyone who did sign a prenup wasn't a real family. I think it's her own personal opinion on her own relationship. I also personally wouldn't want to be with someone who asked me to sign a prenup either, but I think for some people, they feel it necessary to protect their assets, and I'm fine with their choice to sign one together. It's just not something that's personally for me. It's something that is between the couple, and no one else.
@heatherlynn - I also agree with everyone that there are some other underlying issues here that need to be worked out prior to the two of you getting married. If his first thought to your behavior was that you would leave him, he has some insecurity issues. Have either of you threatened previously to leave during a heated argument? I think counseling with a different counselor may help tremendously. Your FI also needs to understand that planning a wedding by yourself is extremely stressful. If he can't handle you getting stressed out now, he's not going to be able to handle you getting stressed during your marriage. I hope you'll both go back to see a counselor, and I hope everything works out.
The funny thing is, I am the one suggesting we take a step back and discuss whats really going on here... with the prenup and whatever is behind asking for one all of a sudden. HE is the one who still wants to continue the wedding planning. He says he loves me and that's not going to change. He comes home for those few days a week asks to be involved with the planning, but when we sit down to do it, he can only take about 5 mins before he starts saying, yeah, looks great, whatever you want. Then when I make a comment about I thought you wanted to be involved... he thinks the 5 mins counts as his involvement. Which is fine with me... yes im stressed, but i can do it.
One thing that he asks me ALL THE TIME is if im going to, one day, pack up and move back to Michigan! I always tell him that I have lived in Florida for 9 years, if I really wanted to move back, I woudl have done it already! Well the first few times he asked I wasn't so harsh with my wording, but the last 80 times he's asked, I was. :) Which all of that stems down to, his mother leaving his father (in NY) and moving him and his brother down to Florida when they were little. In which I always tell him, I am not your mother, please do not compare me or take your insecurities out on me... im here for you to talk about it, but that's not fair to me.
Yes, I understand that that is Greta's personal belief, but she should be mindful of phrasing when posting about such "hot topics" in order to not come across so ignorantly, that's all. The implication, no matter what her own personal thoughts, is that if she knows of anyone who has a prenup, they are not *really* married and they are not *really* family. It can be percepted as such, that is all, and perception is something we should always take into consideration when posting.
@heatherlynn, there is definitely an underlying reason why he suddenly brought it up, particularly having always known your feelings about it. A prenup is probably what somebody in his family mentioned to him, so perhaps he just jumped on board without 100% knowing what it'd entail? I can understand your frustrations with him wanting to be involved. It kinda sounds like HE is the insecure one, always asking you to move home and all that. Maybe he thinks by having a prenup that prevents you from having any alimony, you'd be less likely to leave him in the future for fear of *punishment*? Maybe it would behoove him to see a therapist to deal with some of those insecurities? It isn't fair of him to project those onto you, when in reality, you haven't done anything to render that. I know it's tough; DH's father walked out on him when they were little, too, and it DOES mess with their heads, but he always has the attitute that he is not him, no matter the saying that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I can understand his fears, but you shouldn't have to convince him over and over! That gets old very fast.
I don't think there is anything wrong with pre-nups and I don't think that just because you have one you are preparing for a divorce. And if the big D does happen then you will have less headache since half of the stuff is already hashed out.
I would at least think he would have asked you at a more respectable time but that is how men are!
Good Luck with everything.
I signed a pre-nup because my fiance asked me to. It sucked and we argued about it a little, but I did it. But he had a rational reason for asking me to sign it. We're not preparing for divorce - couldn't be farther from it. We're just being careful.
As all the other ladies have pointed out, that does not seem to be the case here, and a prenup is probably inappropriate. Counseling does sound appropriate to get past his insecurities. Is that something you discussed last time? Would he be more comfortable in individual counseling?
Also, I'm with you, sister! My guy is gone all week for work and only home on the weekends, so I do most of the planning/crafting/etc. myself, and it IS stressful! On top of which, it's just a lot of work! Your FI needs to understand that this is a wedding for two people, and he should be helping out more! Maybe it would help if you gave him concrete tasks to do or delegated a few things. I gave my guy the honeymoon planning and music, so he took the lead on that, and it was great! He also helps out with physical crafting projects and is willing to sit down with me so long as I give him something to do. Ideas ... not so much. I don't know if that would work for you or not, but it sounds like you're under a lot of stress, so you need to try something!
Good luck!
My advice would be to sit him down and try to figure out exactly what's going on. It sounds like someone suggested this to him since it's so random. Ask him where the idea came from and why exactly he wants to do this. Are there family assets he wants to protect that maybe you don't know about? Is this something other people in his family have done? Approach him in a nice way and listen to what he has to say before acting too upset.
After you get a good answer out of him, take some time to think about what he said. If what he is asking for seems reasonable, go for it. If you are still scratching your head talk to him some more. Tell him how uncomfortable you feel with the idea of a prenup and just can't get your head around his reasoning.
Good luck and I'm sorry such a stressful thing happened!!
I'll be asking FI to sign a pre-nup because I'm coming into the marriage with a significant amount of assets. It will probably go something like this: anything either of us had before the marriage we will keep, then we split everything 50/50 should we get a divorce.
I think it's a good idea because you know what? Shit happens. Marriages fall apart. People cheat. People grow apart and fall out of love. People do ugly things during divorce. Call me a cynic, but my dad and stepmom just spent 2 years going through a divorce. It. Sucks. It's irresponsible to to think that it couldn't happen to you. I'm in 100% agreement with what EJS said in her previous posts, so there's really nothing else for me to point out. Just listen to him and his reasons why he wants one. Step outside of yourself for a second and look at it from an outsiders point of view. Good luck.
Also, my future husband and I WILL be a *family* WITH a pre-nup.
Okay I started off totally for your FI and now not so much :) In general, I think that prenups are a great idea. No one wants to get divorced but half of all people do. Just like no one wants to get into a car crash but you have car insurance just in case. Why not plan for that (hopefully fictional) future now while you love each other and can really be fair? Prenups don't just deal with pre-existing income. They can also deal with things like alimony and assets aquired after a marriage like inheritances, etc. There are definitely circumstances in which I think alimony is appropriate, but I think it is granted way too often these days and so I would want a prenup to protect both me and my spouse "just in case."
BUT- if he is doing this in a reactionary way rather than a theoretical way (i.e. I think that ALL people should have prenups. he just thinks YOU should), you need to deal with the issue that is making him uncomfortable asap.
if there are assets involved then i agree with prenups. my hubby had every right to ask for one but as hes a bit old fashioned he didnt. if he had asked me to sign one, i would have been hurt but i also would have understood and reconginzed it as fair
I may be in the minority here, but my FI and I are planning on signing a pre-nup, and I was the one who suggested it. He at first wasn't interested, but has since decided that it could be a good idea. Neither of us has any real assets at the moment (can you say broke college students?) but we both have significant inheritances coming our way at some point in the future. A pre-nup is not an insulting thing. It also isn't a one-sided thing. If ridiculous things are stated in the prenup, a judge will not hold them up. Also, when constructing a pre-nup, both sides have lawyers, and both parties interests are protected. It's simply a legal document that makes things easier in the event of a divorce. It isn't preparing for divorce. I also look at it as an acknowledgement that you are marrying for each other - not for what the other person brings to the table, asset-wise. Here's a couple of websites I found useful when researching for our prenup:
http://www.idotaketwo.com/prenuptial_agreement.html
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/prenup.asp
Honestly, they really aren't such a bad idea, for either of you. You can't sign anything you don't agree to, and it will make sure you both go into this with full disclosure about the others financial situation.
I'm so sorry. I would be devestated if my FI asked me to do one. It had never even crossed my mind, even though the richer people tend to do it.
I think you need to talk to him about how you feel, and see where it takes you.
You must log in to post.
| Visit our sister sites | eHarmony Online Dating |
eHarmony Advice Dating Advice |
Project Wedding Wedding Songs |
JustMommies Pregnancy Calendar |
Create the honeymoon of your dreams.
| User | Posts Today |
|---|---|
| ellisrobertson | 22 |
| MsPanda | 14 |
| aduarte3201 | 14 |
| pengoala | 10 |
| ShellVee | 10 |
| londonchick | 9 |
| londonpeach84 | 8 |
 KimKimmieKim |
8 |
| ladyartichoke | 6 |
| MrsBlueSeptember | 6 |
| User | Posts Today |
|---|---|
| armychica06 | 2 |
| nerdysarah | 2 |
| pinkshoes | 1 |
| o0olibelulao0o | 1 |
| MsPiggy | 1 |
| dickinson | 1 |
| countrygirl62312 | 1 |
| pecanpie | 1 |
| Loupyloo | 1 |
| rdownie1 |
1 |
