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Mr. Beagle felt that it was important to formally speak to Papa and Mama Beagle before he proposed. This really had nothing to do with "asking permission", but it was more out of respect for them and to let them know how he felt about me. We picked out and bought the ring about a month before this happened (for reasons outside our control he wasn't able to speak to them in person before this time). So... as soon as he talked to them, he then propsed. I think for Mr. Beagle (since he is the one who proposed), he wanted our formal proposal to be a special moment between us that we could look back on always (and I love, love, love the amount of thought he put into it- even when I think about it now, I smile!). We talked about marriage quite a bit before this and were able to hash out most of disagreements, etc.... So for us, the proposal also marked the turning point from talking to planning and it was the point that we can look at and say we've reached mutual agreement of what our marriage is going to be about.
Well, it wasn't really a surprise to me because I totally knew it was coming. If you are completely, 100% blown out of the water, it means you haven't talked seriously about getting married! In my opinion and I don't mean that to be offensive. I truly believe you should together decide to get married, and the proposal should happen thereafter. But I still liked the idea of him officially asking me to marry him, as did he. We knew it was going to happen, but it was just the right thing to do I guess. We both decided when he would propose because, well, when you get 14 days of leave from Iraq, there isn't a whole lot of mystery to that.
However, I do have a happily married coworker for about 7 or so plus years....and he and his wife agreed to get married on a handshake. 
I sort of like the "middle path" that my fiance and I ended up taking on this one, I'll explain -
First of all, it is important to know that we are comparatively young - both 21 right now and both 22 for our wedding. However, having been together since 16 and knowing that he'd be starting his Army career after we both graduate from college, after almost two years of successful long distance I was starting to wonder what "post college" held for us, and if wow, we might actually get married. As we got older and things continued to go well, I fell in love with him more all the time (plus of course our relationship became more adult as *we* became adults). This summer before I left to study abroad, I hinted at wanting to talk about it, but since that had backfired before, I just let it go and figured I'd just let things be.
Well, about a week into my time abroad, he brought up the future - out of the blue! I couldn't believe that was the moment he chose, but it was. So, over the next couple days we decided our future path, through computer communication. We both brought up all the hard issues that we needed to work out, and some of the lighter things as well. Since we'd never explicitly talked marriage before, it was freeing, strange, and wonderful! Before too long we realized that we'd both decided independently that we wanted to get married, and that June 2010 (post graduation) was the best time to do it. I'd never seriously let myself believe we might get married that early, so it was overwhelming to think of - in a good way.
I say all that because in our instance, it was good to decide together. A complete surprise proposal would have had a little less of the pure joy that our engagement had because we'd have had to weigh out the pros and cons in THAT moment, instead of months earlier like we did. I also needed those few months were we'd decided but it was pretty quiet, in order to get used to the exciting path that my life was now going to take.
We started to talk about the wedding, but avoided talking about engagement or the ring. I deduced that he was probably going to propose to me when he visited Italy over Christmas break, but that was more logistical than anything. His whole process of buying and selecting the ring was entirely secret from me until after the fact.
In order to stop blabbing I will just say - I love that the ring itself was a surprise, that he had to be "sneaky" and got to plan everything on his own that way. But I am also glad that marriage was a decision we made together, and that I had a chance to work through all the important aspects of this life choice, negatives and positives, and be sure of my decision before I got engaged. Because the decision had already been made, there was nothing left to do but celebrate and enjoy that special moment with him - no wondering if I was making the right decision! If he had proposed out of the blue, it would have caught me offguard in a more negative way, and I would have been trying to figure out if marriage was really the best thing AFTER he'd already bought the ring...
So, that is how it went for us. I love that the proposal and the ring were basically surprises, but the decision about our future was very much between the two of us in advance. Just my thoughts!
@ejs...I don't think that's true. Plenty of people talk about it and know where they stand and are still surprised {100%} with the timing or type of proposal. I don't think that's bad.
My case is also non-traditional. We started talking seriously about marrying each other after we'd been together about 1.5 years. However, I had one big hesitation and wanted to make sure he'd be okay living in a different part of the country. We moved, together, and then started discussing actually marrying each other. I can pinpoint a moment when it changed from "talking about it" to actually working toward making it happen. I consider that when we were engaged.
We started making plans and even looked at a few venues and discussed dates. We put a deposit on the place where we'll have the ceremony and reception. We looked at rings together.
About a month, maybe 6 weeks, after that -- he "proposed" because he wanted to do something romantic, and he presented me with the ring. He asked me to marry him, and I said that we're already doing that.
Not the norm, I know, but I think we both got what we wanted, and that's the most important thing.
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it's more than a guy deciding when it's time to get married. I think most couples indeed DO discuss the option of marriage before he asks.
In my case I think pretty much it's when he has the darn thing paid off! Lol! My guy is very fiscally conservative and we don't overextend ourselves financially and doing great despite this economy. Plus we're having to merge two households but we know we are marriage bound!
Like you both, we know we're getting married, but I want the surprise of when he officially asks me! I'm a completely independent and professional woman who at the same time loves tradition and I want that Cinderella moment! My guy knows I love a great surprise and to me, I find it terribly romantic when the time will come and he knows it's important to me too..despite the fact we already know 100 percent that we'll spend the rest of our lives together. Our friends and family know too. For me this is nothing about me being a feminist or whatever..it's about romance and simple logistics mixed in too!
Whether your loving partner hands you a glittery ring, a glass slipper, or a beautiful wedding set, it matters not..what matters is the love and the feeling when that moment arises..however it arises for you both.
This day and age I seriously doubt that any guy would singlehandedly decide that it's time or not time to get married without asking his girlfriend and discussing matters.
But dammit give me all the flowers and romance and candy you can! And a sparkly ring can't hurt either! 100 percent girly girl!
Interesting post. I've wondered about this too, from all angles. For us, we were discussing getting married for at least a year before he proposed- and usually it was me asking why he wasn't proposing (it had been 3 years!) and was he serious with me or should I just do my own thing (i.e., not move back to Boston, etc). I also made it pretty clear to him that I was applying to schools all over the country and the only way I was picking one in Boston (if I got in) was if I had a ring. I did not want to be someone who moved for a man and based my life around him if he had not fully committed to me. So, yes, we talked about it. Did we say, we're definitely getting married, so now I guess we're technically engaged? No. Nor did we pick rings out together, nor did I have any idea when he was going to propose- it sure felt like it was never goign to happen! He firmly believed that a proposal should be a surprise, and the ring should be picked out by him. I hinted through the years about what I want (ok, maybe I more than hinted.. I even wrote it down for him!) but seriously I had no idea when it was going to happen. When the day finally came though, even though I was surpised, I was totally not surprised either because I knew at SOME point, it was coming.
We have two couple-friends that did not discuss, for one single second, getting married before they got engaged. THey had been together 3 years and not one word about it the day he got down on one knee. Incidentally, they are also the only couple of our all friends that are having a very hard time with marriage, getting along, compromising, etc. On the flipside, I have a friend who designed and purchased her rings with her fiance a year before they got engaged. She said she used to wear it around the house when he wasn't home.
I think this is one of those issues where there is no right or wrong, and try as we might, we'll never know what works for another couple or why. Everyone is different and it's really easy to pass judgement when someone does something that is totally opposite from what you have done. It's really easy for me to say that our couple friends that didn't discuss it probably should have- but I don't know what it's really like in their relationship. It's also easy for me to be shocked that my friend wore her ring a year before she was engaged, but again- what do I know? Only what worked for us! It is really interesting though how couples do everything different. I'm really glad that my FI and I discussed marriage at length before he proposed, but I'm also glad the propose was a "surprise." However, even though I love my ring, looking back I would have liked to help him pick my ring...just because who knows what I'd have fallen in love with if I'd had the chance to really look around. I think I mentioned it a few times but he was pretty adamant about how that would ruin the surprise. So, to each his own I guess!
What interesting responses from everyone so far...keep 'em coming, this is really informative for me. I've often wondered if there was something just entirely deranged about me that I didn't understand the proposal thing, but it sounds like everyone's story is pretty unique so maybe I'm not that weird.
I should also clarify, when I talk about things being a surprise for my friends, I think it's something most like what monalisa describes. They had talked about marriage, but more in an abstract way then in let's get married soon. And for me, we'd talked about marriage from very early on...we were LD to start (and old enough) that it wasn't really even worth the effort unless we thought there was a potential. We had talked about all sorts of details of being married, but not whether we were ready to get married (or sure we wanted to). Then, like I said, he let me know pretty unequivocably that he was there, but that he was also pretty sure that I wasn't. And so when I got there a year later, I let him know and we had a talk which ended with our looking at each other asking if we were engaged. This is similar (though not exactly the same) as how things went for my sister, so it also didn't seem so unusual.
An interesting thing about my engagement set is that I knew he had issues with diamonds so wouldn't choose that for an engagement present, and he knew I had issues with wearing a ring before he does. So after the conversation he told me what he had planned to get me, and it was more or less exactly what I wanted :) I know it makes him happy to see me where that jewelry, and I also just really love it.
well, I'm in the waiting to propose / going to be surprised category, so here's a little insight...
We've been dating since highschool (over 5 years now), we both graduate this May, but he's going to work and I head straight to gradschool, and will be done next August. We've talked about it before, we know that we want to get married, but feel as though now we are too young. He is Malaysian Indian, and although I know and love his family, he's never talked with them about our future... his culture sees the guys as babies until they get married, and lets just say his mom is not quite ready to give up her baby to anyone :) this is also reinforced by multi-generational homes (ie new wife just moves into the family home) that is also traditional for him (soooo not into that).
So! We know we want it to happen, but I need him to be the one to talk with his family to get their blessings (which is absolutely necessary), and they wouldn't consider it until he has some money saved up from some time working (again with the traditional, he has to be able to provide for me etc). My family is more open... my parents flat out asked me when we were getting married, and I explained and said I don't know. So, long story short... I expect a proposal sometime after we graduate, maybe after I get my masters. I don't know if I would consider myself a feminist, but I don't mind waiting for him to sort out his things before this can officially happen. We have committed to each other as equals, which is the most important thing (to me).. I can run around and tell my friends and family when the time is right :)
KateMW, I didn't mean with the timing of the proposal!!!! Not at all. I just meant the actual getting married thing. Eek i didn't mean to offend anyone.
I simply said this because I have friends who were in relationships, and the guy was super serious and the girl wasn't (yet). Well they never ever talked about getting married...and the dude proposed. Then it's the awkward "uhhhhh" conversation. They had never talked about marriage or GETTING married!!! So she was blown out of the water by the proposal....basically had no idea he would ever propose.
That's all I meant by that! I have plenty of friends who talked about getting married and wanted to be, and KNEW it was coming, but were completely blown away by their proposal! I hope that makes more sense.
I think it is fairly unusual for the guy to propose with honestly no idea what the answer will be. I think the vast majority of couples discuss marriage, at least in the eventual sense, before the formal proposal. Before I started reading weddingbee, I had no idea how many couples bought their rings together in advance or were basically engaged before making it official.
I admit I was getting a little upset about my fiance being the one who got to pick when marriage would happen. But like you, I was the one who took a long time to be ready. For some reason I was really reluctant to let him know when I did feel ready. A fear of seeming desperate, perhaps, I don't know. But eventually, we began discussing marriage as a 'when' instead of an 'if' and while I was surprised by the proposal, he did know I was going to say yes.
Well, my Fi started talking about marriage months into our relationship. But we were in college, and I made it very clear that I did not want to get married until we had graduated. We started talking seriously about getting engaged in June of 2007. By the time Christmas had rolled around, we had both decided New Year's Eve was a good time for the proposal, we had looked at rings together, and I had listened in when he called our parents to tell them he was going to ask. When he proposed, it wasn't some big, over-the-top story. He didn't give any big long speech or anything, either. But it was special for us. :) And I really just wouldn't want it any other way. My involvement, our decision together to get married, and even the waiting for the "official" moment was all perfect, imo. After the proposal, we didn't even pick a date for 6 months, and didn't start planning until over 8 months after the engagament! But that's fine by me, too, because it fit really well with out timeline and other life plans.
I guess a lot of why my Fi proposed even after we had decided to get married was because of our families and our own expectations. We didn't want our parents to miss out on the fun of the proposal and engagement. They had been waiting for this for a long time! And, honestly, neither of us wanted to miss out either. I mean, I'm only planning on being proposed to once. I wanted him to get down on his knee and give me the ring in front of our friends; I wanted the "traditional" story to tell our future kids and grandkids. He told me that really wanted to do it, too, knowing that he wouldn't get a chance for a re-do. I totally agree with the other posters who said it's what works for the couple. This is what worked for us, and we're both very happy with how it turned out!
We'd talked about how we would get married for a long time--we've been together 7 years, and started dating when we were 20. We'd decided that we wanted to purchase a ring together and I knew we wanted something estate and he did not want it to be all diamonds (he thinks they're boring & too traditional). I know people who bought the ring together and then waited to get engaged, and personally, that would drive me nuts! We got engaged without a ring, which was perfect for us.
I think this is a case of different strokes for different folks--just about every combination would work for someone, and you just have to trust that you and your mate are on the right page for you two...
Exactly. There's no right or wrong at all. Just what you prefer. I find it honestly foreign of the guy DIDN'T ask to marry you (even after discussions or decision making) because I want that moment..that romance..We HAVE an incredibly romantic relationship and we're also realists and very grounded and yet that side of us is so wonderful!
For Fizicsgirl it's not diamonds or a ring. For me it's the diamond, the romance and the whole shebang! And of course my guy knows I want that..I want that moment. But we are great together everyday and while a ring won't make US a better couple, it is for me a moment steeped in tradition and something I see as utterly romantic and our families recognize that too. They'd honestly be ????? if he didn't!
I see it as a combination of traditions, culture, personal preferences, and of course abiding love!
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Thanks for bringing up this topic, it's interesting to hear other people's opinions and expectations.
About 3 years into our relationship, we had to go long distance as my then-boyfriend began law school in Texas and I stayed behind in NYC. (We're still doing ldr, but only for another month!) He'd been resistant to any marriage talk before then, but once he got down to Texas we started to have some real conversations about it. We'd eventually made plans to go shopping for "sparkly things" when he came to NYC for my birthday.
We went shopping just before we met friends for dinner and killed some time in Union Square. At that point, we decided that it didn't make any sense to wait for a ring to proclaim we're engaged. So we went to dinner and told all our friends that we were engaged! Ta-da!
i'd always wanted it to be a mutual decision rather than waiting for my boyfriend to ask me. It's easily the biggest decision we'll ever make, so it makes sense to do it together. That sort of trust and teamwork is far more important to me than a surprise.
I totally disagree with ejs4y8. I was completely shocked by my FI's proposal in spite of the fact that we'd been talking in hypothetical terms about marriage for months. It was always "if we got married." We'd only been together for 8 months, and we were both so surprised by the proposal I didn't even answer him right away -- I waited for a week to be sure I knew what I was doing! I feared that saying "yes" to a spur of the moment proposal would end disastrously for both of us.
I think the proposal is about the moment, the romantic gesture, whether you knew it was coming or not. My husband and I had talked hypothetically about marriage - really, more about life goals and plans, and then about his kids, and then about things like finances, so I knew he was pretty serious. Really, I probably knew that from the start - he's a pretty serious guy, and I think that when you've been married before (he has, I hadn't) and especially once you have kids, you tend to be a little more serious. We designed my ring together, decided what was a reasonable cost, and picked out the center stone. From that point on, everything that happened was a surprise to me. I mean, obviously, I knew that he was going to ask. But I had no idea when, or how, and he did managed to completely take me by surprise and plan a wonderfully romantic and touching proposal. For us, the memory of that is a wonderful thing - even though I already knew he was going to ask, and he already knew what my answer would be. It would have been totally unlike him, and it would also have been a disappointment to me, if he hadn't planned something special in the way of a formal proposal, and I don't see why the romantic moment is any less valuable because you knew it was coming.
I look at it like this. Just because you get your husband, or your sister, or your mom something for their birthday that they specifically asked for, even in a size and color that they specifically wanted - in other words, a present that isn't realy a surprise - does that mean that you don't wrap it up, put a pretty ribbon on it, and make the occasion special? Of course it doesn't. You could just leave it in the bag - heck, they know what it cost, so you could just leave the tags on. But you don't - you still make an occasion of it. A birthday present, or party, is just as special whether or not it's a surprise, and so is a proposal.
Hmmm, here's another one that might also help clarify my first question...has any woman here, or knows anyone, been the one to propose? I guess part of why this is one of the things that has been a question for me is I'm wondering why is there still an expectation for things to always be "guy asks girl" when the decision was made together? It sounds like tradition is probably the biggest reason from the above posts, but just wondering if there are any other reasons.
I would have to agree with you, I think it has more to do with "tradition" than anything else that boy asks girl. However, it's not unheard of for it to be the other way around. So I guess to answer your question: Why did Mr. Beagle ask me instead of visa versa? Hmmm.. honestly, I'm not sure why... we just followed tradition, we just repeated what others around us had done. I wasn't anxiously awaiting the proposal and I don't think I put a whole lot of pressure on him to make it "perfect" either. Like your situation, he was ready a long time before I was.. I guess in this situation it would make more sense for me to have asked him when I was ready since he had already let it be known earlier that he was ready for marriage. Right? Interesting topic!
I knew my proposal was going to happen soon (within a few months) only because we had talked a long time ago briefly about when we would get engaged. Our conversations were almost always hypothetical, what ifs and "dream planning" for the future. I never wanted to push the subject because I knew we both wanted to get married but we had already talked about waiting until we were both someone financially able to make the committment. I had been at my first "real" job (I had worked in clothing and restaurants before, but this was my first professional job) and he was waiting to be done and out of his training period for his job. I knew it would happen right around the time he would graduate from his training. So I was 100% shocked when he proposed a few months before he was done with training. (He is a financial advisor and had to go through 18+ months of training and couldnt wait to ask me anymore).
We did not look at rings together, I didnt tell him what type of ring I wanted other than he knew I hated yellow gold. We actually went out with his sister and her BF one night and I got tipsy and she took advantage of that by bringing up rings and what size I was, what type of ring I wanted. He picked out the ring all on his own, asked my dad for permission and everyone knew but me. I did tell my dad once long ago that if my FI ever asked him for his permission to marry me that I didnt want him to tell my mom. I talk to my mom every day and I knew if he told her I would be able to tell because she would sound anxious every time we talked.
Im totally happy with how my proposal happened and I wouldnt have wanted it any other way. I have several friends who are engaged (including my FSIL and her now FI) that looked at rings together or the girl told her FI what ring she wanted. Its not that I dont agree with how they did things but for me personally, I wanted to be surprised. They were all surprised when and how it happened but they all KNEW it was coming so it took some of the element of surprise out of it.
I am a very independent person, with a lot of plans for my future, including starting a company this year. If we didn't plan it together, it might have changed my plans. Instead, I got to create my future with my husband before he even proposed. I wouldn't feel comforable making plans for his future, just as he wouldn't make them for mine (i.e. out of the blue proposal).
Anyway, the moment was still a total surprise and it was perfect. I think to truly be on the same page about the huge decision to be married, you have to talk about things first. My fiance would have never been comfortable asking if he didn't know it was the right time for both of us, through and through, because once he gave me my ring, we sealed the deal.
That's my opinion, but my grandma thinks it is nuts. She and my grandpa were married almost 60 years and had never talked about marriage before the engagement. I guess it works out either way!
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A couple of months ago my FI and I went to our Engagement Encounter and we were surprised to find out that there was a couple there who wanted to make sure they really wanted to get married before he proposed. I was shocked to find this out and I overheard someone speaking to him (after his girlfriend was out of sight) commented, "Wow she must really like you if she is here doing this before you even propose?" He shook his head and said, "Yes, and I plan on proposing this summer." I give the girl props because everyone there was already engaged and we were all looking at each other's ring and she just smiled. At that point in time I thought it was strange but the mroe I think about it I guess some people need to know without a doubt they have done everything before they decide to commit.
And if a guy asked a girl without giving her a ring, is it still considered a proposal?
I think one problem is that we've read so many great romantic stories about other people's proposals that we wanted ours to be like that too. Some girls have a certain expectations of a dream proposal that anything less than that will be a great disappointment. I think that when you and your boyfriend seriously talk about getting married, you are engaged. The problem with this society is that, when you tell your friends that you are engage, the next question is, where is the ring? Or can I see your ring? And then, how did he propose? There's a standard, like, you need to have a ring to show and a story to tell.
pacos based on the reactions I get, I think you're right about there being a certain expectation. But there are many other societal expectations, even surrounding marriage and a wedding, that people have no problem throwing out the window. So I'm trying to figure out why is this the one so many people stick with? Especially when you consider it's the one with the least historical tradition (diamond engagement rings for anyone but royalty have only been around since like the 1930s or so) behind it, and I think it is one of the most problematic from a feminist perspective. This isn't to say it has to be, but there is a strong implication surrounding the tradition that the man is deciding that he's ready to get married and expecting the woman to have waited around from him...of course that's not how it usually is, but that's how it reads. I don't think anyone on this site has a relationship like that, though, which is why I'm trying to understand all your perspectives. There are many other traditions that are also problematic, of course, like having your father "give you away". I am reclaiming that one b/c I want my Dad there to guide me toward one of the biggest moments in my life...so I guess I'm trying to understand how people have reclaimed this tradition for their own lives and relationships.
I really appreciate everyone sharing their stories, but I'm still confused about the ritual of being "surprised" with a proposal. My FI did buy me a lovely set of solitaires and planned, wiht input from me, a great weekend to celebrate our decision to get married. But it seemed for us that after we decided together, a surprise was beside the point b/c it would take away from the fact that we had made this decision together. So my question is how, for those of you who had a more traditional proposal, does it enhance the decision to get married? Is it something you thought about? I'm just interested in what are really different perspectives than mine.
I think the usual suprised reaction with a proposal is for the benefit of the guy. Specially if he invested a lot of time and effort to make the proposal perfect for you. Because how can you be surprised if you already knew it was coming? And don't tell me some girls never sneak and ask close friends and try to guess how the guy is going to deliver the question. And I also wonder why guys still ask the question when they are already talking about getting married and based on her answers about her dream wedding and stuffs, he knew that she is going to marry him.
I guess you can't just give a ring without a question? :)
And fizicsGirl, I don't have a traditional proposal so I'm sorry I can't answer your last question. But in my opinion, maybe it does enhances the girls decision to get married. It depends upon the person, really.
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So my question is how, for those of you who had a more traditional proposal, does it enhance the decision to get married?
My FI and I talked about marriage for a long time, but we actually decided to marry each other after a long talk on the 4th of July. Originally I didn't want a ring, he wanted me to have one, even if it was a cheap little thing. It didn't take much convincing on my part and he decided he didn't want a cheap little thing for me :) I'm glad we got to create the ring together--he would have chosen a diamond center stone and I wanted a sapphire--but even if he had surprised me with a ring, of course I would have been pleased.
I wanted a proposal and he wanted to propose as well. I never thought I would get married and here it was happening--I wanted something romantic even though we had agreed to get married and I picked out the ring I wanted to be made. We had planned a summer vacation so I assumed it would happen on a leg of that vacation, when we went to visit his hometown--however it happened in Mexico. I was completely surprised and didn't even recognize the ring when the couple next to us came over and told me I had dropped it on my way back from the bathroom. It was beautiful, I loved it--he loved it and he loves to tell the story. It didn't enhance our decision to get married at all, but it's a beautiful memory for the both of us.
Everyone has their own story and my fiance proposing to me doesn't take away from the fact that we decided to get married together. Everyone has images and dreams in their heads and we all make things mean something beyond what it actually is--we started planning the wedding before the "proposal" because we knew it was official--in my head I wanted the proposal because I wanted the story, the romance. And it seems that you've made it mean that it takes away from the two of you deciding together--making it solely about the man--which is not wrong--it's just a different way of looking at things.
P.S. I did buy my fiance an engagement ring and I did propose to him--nothing as romantic--we both picked out his ring--I asked him one day if he'd like his own engagement ring and he thought that was a cute idea--we went online to find it--I got it at work and the next morning I woke him up with a kiss and put the ring on his finger and asked him to marry me. Now he has two stories to tell.
latoya, that's a *really* cute story :) So was his way of proposing "accidentally" having the other couple bring it over?
We aren't doing an engagement ring, but we did have an official proposal. My fiance and I probably discussed marriage for about 2 years or more before we actually decided for sure. By discussed, I mean went to a financial planner to talk about how we might accomplish our long term and short term goals, my fiance did some career counseling to sort out what sort of level he aspires to and get a better idea on what kind of education/ workload it will take to get there, we talked to our friends who had kids to find out what kind of impact it had on their relationship/ career. Basically, a ton of soul searching about the future and really checking to see if our mutual goals are compatible.
At the end of it all, I did want a proposal, just as confirmation that he really was enthusiastic about marrying me. Otherwise, it would have been an anticlimatic "huh, I guess our goals are mutally compatible after all" on the way home from the financial planner.
I'm not sure if our proposal could be described as traditional (no ring, no down on one knee) but it was a meaningful to us. We went somewhere with a beautiful view and fiance said a lot of nice, mushy things and that was it!
To be perfectly honest, the couples who propose and accept marriage without ever discussing kids, in-laws, sex, finances, career, long term goals ahead of time worry me a bit. And those types of discussions, generally give you a heads-up that your fiance might want to ask you to marry him in the near future. I realize not everyone is as anal as us, but I would rather not find out that my fiance wants to move to Timbuktu/ doesn't want kids/ wants to do an expensive grad program that will involve big student loan debt before committing.
ETA: On the feminist misgivings about waiting for the guy to propose, I had a lot of friends suggest that I propose to him. Well, great idea, except he was the one who was more cautious about marriage and who wanted to go through all of the financial planning and career counseling before deciding. So, if I had proposed to him before we had completed the process, it would have been an awkward silence and "let's finish up our meetings with the financial planner". In general, men aren't too excited about the wedding and are a little more fearful of marriage (ball and chain stereotype) and it generally takes them a little longer to decide.
@fizicsGirl--yes, that was his way of proposing--the couple brought the ring over and i actually shooed them away at first and they put the ring in my hands and then he asked me.
@Sakoro--I agree with the last thing you said. Some men are not generally excited about getting married--lots of men I've dated would cringe at the word--so a proposal (even if both have already talked about it) can be the cherry on top.
I too wonder about how I would have handled this situation. DH's proposal completely surprised me and I was thrilled. I was actually very upset with DH for a while because he continued to tell me that he wasn't ready to get married up until the day before he proposed (very tricky). I was very excited when he did propose, but also a little confused about whether this was "real"....it took me a little while to soak it all in. :)
My theory about why couples have a formal "proposal" even after they have mutually decided/spoken about getting married stems from my parents' experience.
My parents were shopping one day and my dad simply turned to my Mom and said "I guess we should start looking at rings" - my Mom just said, "Ok" and waited for her proposal. Well it never came. They simply picked out a ring together and began planning their wedding. To this day, my Mom says that she really wishes my Dad had marked the occasion with a special, romantic moment of actually asking her to marry him. She tells this story often and I realized after my own proposal how important that moment can be. Just my thoughts...
ms. bunny's response of "<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: tahoma; font-size: 13px">I was completely shocked by my FI's proposal in spite of the fact that we'd been talking in hypothetical terms about marriage for months. It was always "if we got married." We'd only been together for 8 months"
describes our situation to a T! I answered yes, however, right away, because although I was surprised, I was happy surprised and it definitely an amazing, surreal moment!!!
I was shocked by my FH's proposal: I knew it was going to happen, and I knew it was going to happen before the end of the year. We had been dating for nearly 6 years, and own a house together, but there was something special about a proposal. We talked abstractly about our wedding, but never anything concrete.
I always wanted to be surprised, and he managed to do so. Maybe I'm a traditionalist, maybe I have some sort of throwback to 1950s sexual politics, but I am so happy that we waited to plan anything until the official proposal.
heck... we're getting married June 23rd and im still waiting for my proposal! i joke with FI and say "you never proposed to me" because technically he has never asked will you marry me in any shape or form. friends have wondered how, if there was no proposal there is a ring and a date
I don't really understand the proposal-after-agreeing-to-get married thing, either, but that's exactly what happened to me. My now-fiance and I knew we wanted to get married, talked about it (how romantic), and decided to do it. End of story, I thought.
A few weeks later we were on our way to a gig and he said, "Hey, just so you know, I'm not getting down on one knee or anything tonight." I couldn't believe he said that to me - for one, it's rude, and for another, we were already engaged, and I told him as much. He said, "Uh-huh, ok." He proposed a week later. Big fancy restaurant, down on one knee, the whole shebang.
So my proposal *was* a surprise - for the very reason that we were already engaged! I think he just wanted to do it "properly" for the memories, but as romantic and sweet as his proposal was, it doesn't even begin to compare to a lot of our sweetest moments together. :)
I am in the waiting category as well, we have a date New Year's Eve of next year, I think?! We are both older, we started dating about a month before I turned 28 and he was 32 at the time. We are both single parents. We seriously started discussing marriage after our year anniversary (about a month ago). I have picked out my FAVORITE 50-60 rings lol!!!! He doesn't like the idea of me knowing what type of ring I am going to get which is foreign to me because I am a total type A personality. Kate Hudson in Bride Wars ALL THE WAY. I have actually decided on a perfect ring that is WAY WAY WAY under budget (roughly a few thousand dollars under budget). I have no idea when he is going to propose. If he doesn't propose this year, then depending on his timing we may have to get married NYE of the next year. I have dreamed of a NYE wedding so that's actually really why we have a tentative date. I think each couple is different, for me it is important to know where I will be for the rest of my life and if he and I are on the same directional path relationship-wise which we are. I am also 29 years old, so it's a lot different when you are older and in a relationship.
@crebre.. I'm the same way. Kate Hudson, Type A... I'm basically a planner.. and I like to decide, plan and prepare... and if need be re-prepare myself! Did i mention i can be impatient too???
We've talked a lot about it... and one day I came home from a soc class with a project about relationships... and it was very useful because it laid out "where we stand" and "what if" categories and scenerios from children to work to finances... so my bf and i sat down and actually started discussing all of it and though we had some minor disgreements, we talked about it and came up with compromising plans. It was a really great experience because it brought up a lot of things that some couples don't even think about and it's great knowing where we stand (together) on these really important issues. i think it's important to talk to your significant other about their views of what goes into a marriage and what to expect before agreeing to get married. This may not be the same for everyone.. but it helped us a lot... and though i understand that no one can completely prepare for everything.. it's reassuring to know that we have a general outline and are able to work together and compromise on tough issues...
The proposal though... that i'm willing to leave up to surprise.. but knowing that we both want the same things and feel the same way kind of gives us a confidence in our path :)
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@stix I am really impatient too! When she power walked into the office and was like GIVE IT TO ME NOW!! My cousin laughed her butt off because it was so me. Lol!
My beau and I have talked about it tons because that's just who we are and I like to know where I will be in the future, there definitely isn't any wait and see what happens with me. The proposal I'm afraid will be a complete surprise. I have NO idea when he will buy the ring, very little idea of which ring it will be. I have 50 favorites (with the most inexpensive being my precious). I have no idea of when he'll propose. And it's driving me BONKERS!! It's also crazy because until he asks I am not really planning. Part of me dreams of an intimate beach wedding (not out of the country, more like about an hour or so away) with only 50 or so of our friends and family there and a dinner reception at an Italian Restaurant across from the beach. The other part of me wants the lavish NYE blowout.
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I want to start this off by saying that I don't intend this question to be judgmental in anyway, I'm just honestly curious. I've often heard of, and several threads on these boards also talk about, couples deciding to get married, sometimes even picking out the ring together, and then the woman is waiting for her BF to "propose". Maybe I'm being really obtuse and old-fashioned, but I really don't understand "proposing" after you've decided to get married already. A few of my good friends have had fairly elaborate proposals, but in all cases it was a genuine surprise (actually more often than not the woman was getting really irritated b/c her BF was putting off talking about getting married). In one case I helped my friend's now husband pick stones, design the ring, and gave him the thumbs up for his proposal idea (needless to say I had to avoid my friend for a couple months before lest I spill it)...but she really had no idea that he was ready to get married. And in fact was getting pretty annoyed that he wouldn't talk about it. But no one I'm close enough to ask about it has gone the other route, so I don't really have anyone to ask.
In my case my FI was ready (and made it subtly known) like a year before we got engaged. I was not. Apparently he was waiting for me to hint if I knew I wanted to marry him (or hoping that I'd do that and not decide I wasn't and leave I suppose), and then he'd propose. Well I didn't know about the hinting thing (and obviously don't get it), so when the time came I told him I was ready to talk abot it and we did. He did buy me a beautiful engagement set afterward (no ring for me, so yes, I'm very non-traditional I guess) and planned a lovely weekend to celebrate, but I guess I thought deciding to get married obviated a big, surprise proposal.
So I'm trying to understand the thoughts/opinions/ideas of those that disagree with my reasoning and who are waiting or have had a proposal that they knew was coming. Yes, I do have some feminist misgivings about the idea of the guy deciding when the right time is to get married, but it'd be pretty hypocritical of me to say everyone should agree with that when I still got an expensive set of jewelry from him while he got, well, just me I guess. And plenty of other things we are doing as part of our wedding are rooted in traditional ideas of marriage as a contract and the woman as property...even though that's not what the traditions mean to me or why I'm doing them. So I'm wondering what does a "surprise proposal" after you've already decided to get married mean to you, and why are you choosing to do it?