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Have you told this to your FI? Minus the being jealous of your sister thing, boys never get it... I think you need to discuss two things. #1 I get putting off getting married for financial reasons but if you want a smaller wedding maybe thats not a big deal. He might think you need a big blowout. Also, do you think he wants kids now? If he's not ready for kids you might be better off waiting. Also maybe go with baby steps. Make a practical arguement for having the wedding sooner rather than later. Good Luck!
Are you convinced that he really wants to be married???? I'm sorry if this sounds harsh... But there's a world of difference really in getting engaged (as you say his family is traditional and this was probably necessary in order for you to cohabitate) and following through with marriage. I think after 2+ years, and a house, you really need to discuss this. There will always be excuses why not to get married or why it should be put off--but timing is never perfect and things always come up in life. If you want to have kids soon you should really be able to discuss your concerns with him about this and let him know this before it's dragged out any longer. I think after so much time and no solid engagement plans you have a right to demand to know what's going on without worrying about upsetting him. This is your life! Maybe he really needs an ultimatum or you need to set some sort of time limit on this... I'm a little sensitive to this subject because I just had a friend in a similiar situation.
I don't understand why he proposed if he didn't want to get married. To me, if you are engaged, you are ready. I understand it takes some people time to be ready (my DH was 30 and we'd been living together 6 years when he proposed), but once you propose I don't think it's fair to then say "but I don't want to get married". I'd try and find out what's really bothering him - marriage or children, and then see if you can come to an agreement (e.g. get married sooner, but put children off a bit later) or something like that. There is never a perfect time to do either, but if he wants to do both with you he should be ready by now to at least make a start on the future you've planned together. Good luck!
Get your mum and sister over, get some bridal mags out and just start organising it. ;)
Ooo, also, get a biiiig piece of cardboard and start pasting things onto it.
Ok, so I'm being a bit passive agressive here, or am I? She is engaged after all, and he shouldn't be surprised.
If he asks any questions then just tell him "but we're engaged? Engaged people get married right?". Act ignorant and plan that wedding!
At least then if he wants to stop it he's going to have to fess up and call off the engagement. p1ss or get off the pot FI!
Tell him 3 years is a ridiculously long engagement. Tell him that problems with having kids start at about 35 (or if it's earlier for your family. My family is horrible - after 34, the best we can hope for is a 3 month premature baby who has to be in an incubator for two months.) My guy thought I could have a safe pregnancy until I was 40 - telling him about my family's fertility crap moved up his timeline about 5 years.
You're a female. You Can't Wait Forever. He's got another 20-30 years of being able to easily reproduce! Set a clear timeline - we have to get married by X date, or I'm out of here. I mean, both of my parents got their bachelor's and master's with two kids at home, and at least one working a full time job (more often both working full-time.) It's not that critical.
I would say, start planning! Say that you need this and he did ask you to marry him. If he wanted to wait 5 years, it should have been a promise ring. Start talking about where you'll get married.
And sign up for wedding magazines to come to your house!!
I don't think you should be passive aggressive about it, but he has to know how much you want it.
I agree with the OP's on just planning it, it's not passive aggressive, YOU'RE ENGAGED!
@tobin: especially this, if you just go ahead with the wedding planning he'll have to speak up about what's really going on with him.
My advice would be to first do a completely positive approach. Have fun planning the wedding, tell him what you *want*, what you are excited about. Let him see how happy and excited the wedding stuff makes you! DON't use the word "should". Use "W" words: I "want" (this should be your #1, your guy does love you and wants to make you happy), "will you", "would you be willing to".
Wait until he's awake and paying attention. Then say:
"I'm sorry I brought up this topic at night I really want to have our wedding 11.11.11. That would be absolutely amazing! I would LOVE IT. Would you be willing to consider that?"
Men are so sensitive to this shit it absolutely blows my mind. They don't want to do things they "should" do or are "told" to do/expected of them (see John Gray's Mars/Venus book, there's a whole chapter on how men respond to certain words, and how to effectively ask for support. it's amazing). They want to do things that make you happy.
So if option #1 doesn't work, I'll share this story:
I had a GF who was engaged for 10 years. That's a long time! She got to a point with her guy where she shared how she really wanted to get married, that they would never have "enough" money, and if he wasn't willing to set a date in the next year she was afraid she was wasting her time. They are now happily married! Yes, it took a push. Yes, she had to have a tough conversation with him. And it may come to that for you.
This is not a totally uncommon situation....
Yes! I agree it should be positive. Get him caught up in the excitement :)
You already waited for the proposal, don't wait for it again.
I also say to start planning the damn thing. Then you'll know if he was serious about proposing 3 years ago, or if it was a...*shudder* "shut up ring."
i hate to be the debbie downer here but is kind of agree with FI. grad school should only take 2 years. if you guys had agreed to wait until you finished with school, then that should be tha arrangement. i wouldnt want to get married while i was still taking classes.
you mention that you guys have purchased a house, but you moved? im confused. did you move after you purchased the house? that would be another flag for me to hold off on getting married.
finally, you are ready for a baby, but you havent finished school. another flag for me if i was a guy.
i think you are letting your "timeline" cloud your judgement a bit. i think women have this "timeline" that we'd like to accomplish all these things by, and when we dont, we get nervous and anxious. i think you really need to just relax. if you plan on going back to school, i think you should tackle that and then revisit the wedding date issue. if school is on hold, then you should tell him about the change of plans and then discuss setting the date.
im a stubborn person that doesnt like when plans change so i can kind of understand his reluctance and growing agitation.
I was feeling really depressed about this an hour ago, and then I remembered that I wrote this post so I came to check on it. :)
Thanks everyone for all of the advice and words of encouragement. Right now I feel motivated and positive about the situation. Instead of fretting and being upset/anxious, I have a plan to talk to him about it tomorrow since it is his day off and we'll have plenty of time to ourselves.
Thanks especially @Dreamingbee...very sound advice indeed. The dialogue you suggested sounds just like something he'd respond better to. I'm really, really working on adjusting my communication skills to his particular style.
@FutureMrsMorgan...We were living at my parent's place until last December, when we bought the house we are currently living in. And I totally agree that the not being finished with school and wanting to start having kids is a red flag. My thinking is more that it'll take a while to get married (since I'm hoping for the end of next year) and then some time just being married (at least 6 months before we even START trying to have a baby). So by then, I'll be nearly finished if not finished. So that's why my timeline makes so much sense to me. Hopefully that wasn't confusing. Thank you for your perspective...I'm very sure he'll bring up the same points tomorrow and this has helped me think some of these things through a little more.
MUCH LOVE TO YOU ALL. :)
my fiance and i were engaged 6months ago and at first we planned on waiting 2 to 3 years as to finish college. he is in his 5 year (double major mechanical/aerospace enginerring) but when we talked it over it just makes more sense not to wait!!!! our car insurance would be less, healthinsurance can be combines and lessened, less on taxes, more finicial aid for school, lots of perks and plus we are ready we both want kids not soonbut later. it took some convincing but i know if he sees it through a lofical persective he is hooked!! now he is soo excited to get married!!
i hate to be the debbie downer here but is kind of agree with FI. grad school should only take 2 years. if you guys had agreed to wait until you finished with school, then that should be tha arrangement. i wouldnt want to get married while i was still taking classes.
The problem is, her grad school plans got put on hold, so their circumstances have changed. You can't hold someone to an original plan when things have since changed. She won't start grad school for another year, then it's 2 more years in school. By the time she finishes grad school, they would've been engaged for 6 years already (and that's not counting another year to plan!!) That's a little on the ridiculous side, as far as engagement lengths go.
I don't think she's being unreasonable at all. I went to a four year law school at night. About a third of my 30 person class got either married, or had kids (some had more than one kid!) while in law school. Life doesn't have to stop because you're in school, especially if you're pursuing an advanced degree that might take some time.
Maybe if you pick out a venue and ask them about available dates, that will make it more real in his mind. Tell your FI that you are sick of waiting revolving around school, esp since the economy isn't good so you've found the perfect venue and have a choice of X dates. If he doesn't like the venue then find out why and give him a choice of a few other places, but eventually he's going ot have to pick one.
Update. We had a long talk. I feel really good about it!!! He is very cautious about making any kind of decision before I find out if I definitely got into grad school, but he wants to talk about it more the next time he has a night off after he's had more time to think about it.
And, actually, I don't have my heart set on the whole 11/11/11 thing, but I do love it. I just want to set a date, preferably in 2011. I told him I was serious about 11/11/11, though. He didn't really comment about the date in particular, but he listened while I explained some reasons why I like that date (besides the unique numbers). One being that it is one week after the 6th anniversary of our first date (don't wanna do 11/4/11 because our first date was on my parent's anniversary).
I lost my bookmark for something tonight and tried to find it through my internet history, only to see that while I was at work he was searching venues, marriage license information, officiant stuff, AND....almanac/projected weather forecasts for November 11, 2011. :) I think I'll have to ask him about that tomorrow! teehee
He also sent me some info on renting houses on the beach somewhere exotic, where we could have our family stay and get married on the beach. If we decided to do that, which I mentioned since November 11 will be chilly in Minnesota.
I'm soooo excited to eventually set the date and actually start planning after almost 3 long years (even if it's not 11/11/11). It's like getting engaged all over again! Sorry to ramble...just excited!
I'm really glad you did talk about it. And it's great he's been looking at marriage stuff, that is very encouraging!
I am just happy that he willing to talk about it and definitely take him up on his invitation to talk about it when he's well rested and has had a few days. Maybe set a date with him?
I'm excited for you to start planning, I know you've been looking forward to it.
I can totally sympathize with the timeline argument. My family has a history of having to get hysterectomies in their early thirties because of certain "lady problems."
I'm 27 now, and having a family is really important to me. My last ex wanted to take his time, so I cut him loose. It was painful, but not being able to ever have children of my own would have been equally painful.
Now I am with someone who loves me enough to respect the fact that I can't wait around. These guys are out there, but sometimes all it takes is telling the guy you already have what's going on in your head. Lay it all out there, and don't pull any punches.
At that point you'll see how he truly feels. And give him a bit of an ultimatum if necessarily. I would never recommend giving one to get a guy to become engaged to you, because not all relationships lead to marriage and not all men are ready at the same time women are. BUT an engagement, by definition, means you're GOING to get married. Him giving you that ring without a clear, solid, TIMELY intention to marry you is nothing less than deception.
Let us know how it goes. Don't let him put you off for too long.
It's a good sign he is looking at things!
My FI said that all the wedding stuff seemed more real to him when we toured our venue, he said it was the first time he was excited about having a wedding.
Your FI may already feel like your married since you've been together so long and lived together for so long so it may just be about the actual wedding like it was with my FI.
It sounds like you should take time to have a long, serious talk with your fiance.... I know venting helps, but for me, when I have issues with my boyfriend it always helps to work through them and talk about them to him, rather than someone else. I think it is because no one knows a relationship as well as the people in it...
But honestly after that length of time I'd tell him if he doesn't help pick a date, that I was just going to :)
If he doesn't want to talk about it, start planning by yourself. Get things actually moving forward, maybe he's the kind of guy that doesn't NOT want to, but he just doesn't want to think of the stress of actually planning it, so he's just putting it off-- in that case, you should just do it! Don't put off planning because of him.
I tend to procrastinate with things, so I could see myself in a long engagement just to delay the stress of it all, thats why I decided to start planning right away, so I wouldn't do that!
He decided to ask you to be his wife in 2007 -- so it is about time you both started to make that happen :)
We finally set a date! And we've been doing some serious planning- we're even going to visit the venue next week :)
Thanks to everyone for the advice...much love!
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I just need to complain. I can't talk to anyone about this because honestly, I'm ashamed/embarrassed of our relationship problems, so I spend most of my time pretending that I'm fine with it and defending/explaining/rationalizing my fiance's desire to wait to get married.
So we got engaged Dec. 21, 2007...that seems like forever ago to me. At first, we agreed to wait until I was completely finished with grad school to get married, but I think we were on totally different pages. Eventually, I started to get antsy and tried to convince him to get married sooner. This has made him frustrated. He makes valid points, but I think part of it is that he's scared to get married because of his own admittance that he's afraid to repeat his parents' failed marriage and he doesn't think either of us are ready for children. He just turned 30 (I'm almost 26) and I can hear the clock ticking from miles away. Most of the reasons to wait are financial in nature (saving up, financial aid for grad school as "single" better than as "married", etc). He's not a very open person...he's had a very tough life and it's hard to get him to engage in meaningful conversations.
I ended up canceling my grad school plans last summer due to the economy, having to move away from my fiance and family, and for my own happiness. So I am now having to wait another full year to find out about getting in to a closer school. I'll find out in October.
Most of the reasons NOT to wait are procreative in nature. We bought a house in December, but we had been living together for years before that. I know perfectly well that cohabitation before marriage usually leads to ambivalence about marriage, and I think we're just too comfortable. But I want to make some children!!!! It's not even baby fever, or my biological clock ticking, it's more just that I don't want us to get too much older before we start having kids. My younger sister is 7 months pregnant, after getting married last year. She was engaged AFTER me, married and popping out kids before me. I'm jealous, and we had always planned to have our kids around the same time. I know it's not a race and it sounds stupid, but it honestly does bother me. I want to start having kids soon, and I'm not planning on doing that before I'm married (it's extremely controversial and a HUGE no-no in his family). It's not that having children is the ONLY reason to get married, but since we've lived together for so long, it's definitely an important next step in our lives after (and prerequiring) marriage.
The topic of setting the date is a little bit sensitive, because I pushed a few too many buttons and he is a stubborn donkey. It sounds horrible. A couple of hours ago, I said "we should get married on 11/11/11" (I REALLY want to) and he said "uhh...Veteran's Day??" And after some discussion about veterans and rememberence...the topic had strayed too far and I felt like it'd be too much if I brought it up again just as he is going to bed.
Does anyone have any advice, words of wisdom, anything?