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I'm not a TON of help, since I'm getting married right after graduating law school - but I've commuted 1.75 hours each way to get to law school, so I could live at home and save money while going to school. I survived (though it was tough) b/c I was able to do reading on public transit. Also, in 2nd and 3rd year, i've been able to pick my own classes and arrange my schedule so I only have classes 3-4 days per week. That helps.
First, as someone who is starting their third year in practice, I am going to SERIOUSLY caution you to rethink law school. I honestly can't think of one person from my class who is really happy in their jobs. And I'm a friendly girl, I know people! So many people have already completely abandoned law. (And I went to a top tier school so it is not an issue of us all getting shitty jobs).
Anyways... if you're absolutely dead set on doing it then I will tell you-- it will be really hard. I have never worked harder in my life than I did in my first year of law school. I was at school 12 hours per day, I measured reading assignments in inches instead of pages, I saw more of my professors than I did of my boyfriend. Although since he's in school too at least maybe he'd understand how little time you have and not be frustrated by it? I'd probably lean towards commuting than living separate. At least you'll get to sleep together, if not spend much other time together.
I think you'll be fine. My best friend in law school, her boyfriend was in med school. They didn't seem to have much trouble finding time to spend together, even if it was just studying/reading on the sofa together.
Law school wasn't that horrific for me, but like Corgi said, practicing isn't as great as I thought it would be... and I had pretty low expectations by the time I graduated. In 3L we were required to take a class called Professional Responsibility. It basically taught us how nervewracking and stressful practicing is, and that a huge percentage of us will become depressed alcoholics within the next ten years or so. I believe it. Sigh...
@jayce: lol oh man I forgot about that. That class was both hilarious and so, so sad. Lawyer rates of alcoholism, drug abuse, divorce, etc... blech.
I would not encourage anyone to go to law school. Think long and hard about it. Do you know what you want to do with your law degree? Make sure your expectations are realistic, and that you are 100% positive that you want to be a lawyer.
I personally enjoyed law school. I found it intellectually satisfying and met my fiance there. So, in a way I am glad that I went. But, I think if I knew what I knew now I would not go. If I hadn't met my fiance there I would have considered it the biggest mistake I ever made.
I know you didn't ask for this advice, but I just felt like I had to warn you :)
As far as commuting, if you can take public transportation it might not be that bad. Also, you can try to set your classes up so that you are only on campus a few days a week.
As a current vet school student, I have to caution you, it is hard! I see my FI quite a bit because I study mostly at home, but it's not quality time. Even making as much time as I can for him, it gets stressful and sometimes I feel pretty guilty. Of course, the crabby mood vet school sometimes puts me in doesn't help either!
When my FI is out of town, as he is now for a temp job, it becomes even harder. He's moving soon for Army OCS, and long distance will be quite an adjustment for both of us. He is incredibly supportive and understanding, without that I don't think we could keep doing this.
As far as the commute, I drove almost an hour each way during undergrad while taking an insane course-load, and I think it actually helped me. It was a time when I could clear my head and listen to some music without studying or stressing about studying. Maybe I'm odd, but I really didn't mind it and was so grateful that it allowed me to live where I wanted to.
Are you even sure your FI will be getting into that vet school? It's become a little easier the past few years, but is still pretty tough. My school gets about 9 applications per spot, others get anywhere from 1.5 to 14. Have you thought about what you'll do if he gets into a school somewhere else?
I'm in my last year of law school now, and I would say not to go at all. I haven't even graduated yet, and I already regret going. If I could go back, I absolutely would not go to law school. (And I have a job clerking for a federal judge for 2 years after I graduate so I'm not just bitter or anything.) But if you're convinced you want to go, then I think it will be pretty hard. The commute might be fine if you can take public transportation, so you can get some of your reading done during those 2 hours. If you're driving, then that'll just be more reading that you have to do when you're at home, and believe me, you're going to have A LOT. I've never worked as much than in my first year of law school, and I was a chemistry major in undergrad, so it's not like my undergrad was a walk in the park. That being said, I didn't (and don't) find law school particularly hard. It's just wicked time consuming.
I'm a 3L right now. My Fi is a chef. I have loved every second of law school (with a few exceptions)...I am scared to death of what practice will actually be like. The ABA sends me emails three times a week about how I will never get a job. I still have the desire and drive to be a lawyer that a lot of my friends have lost.
I'll be honest, though, this has truly been a trial on our relationship. There were many times that I wished he hadn't moved with me while I was going to school.
I almost dropped out of school when I didn't make the Moot Court team. I was heartbroken. I came home the day I found out I didn't make it and told him to pack our stuff. He spent hours at grocery stores finding boxes and prepping us to move. He talked me out of leaving (I was already 50k in the hole from school), and then I made Law Review.
That was when I knew he was the man I was going to be with for life. He was willing to move from MI to FL for me to do this program, and then when I wanted to drop out, he was willing to find a solution. I was willing to quit on myself, but he wasn't willing to quit on me. If he hadn't been here, I would have quit.
It will be hard, but you can do it. All I want now is to be a lawyer. I think it is right for me. I have more gray hairs than I can count. My crow's feet have never been deeper. But it has been worth every second of it. This is what I was born to do. This is what I should have been doing my entire life.
I am in my last year of a doctor of physical therapy program and during my first year, my FI (then bf) was getting his teaching certificate. We never saw each other. Like corgitales said, the only time we were together was when we were passed out in bed after being on campus for 12 hours a day. It was a rough year to say the least, but we adjusted and now we are able to spend a lot of time together. At least your DH will understand all the stress you are under. Just remember to support each other and you will make it out alive! Good Luck!
I just made a profile to comment on this thread.
Law school sucks, no question, and the job market is less than ideal. HOWEVER, if the poster really wants to be a lawyer, she should go to law school.. it's the only way. I am a 3L at a top tier school, and yeah, most of my friends don't know what they are doing yet. Our class also has the worst job prospects in recent history. Buttt, presumably, if you went because you wanted to practice law.. it wasn't a waste of time.
That said, it is very doable to make a strong relationship work when you are going through something like 1L. Honestly, I knew my BF was the one from the way he treated me during my first year. I am personally glad our relationship underwent that test. You guys will bond over the fact that your lives will be crazy, and you will be able to spend weekends in the library together. I think the commute concerns me a little, only because you aren't going to have time to waste driving back and forth. If you can live closer, I would do everything I can to try.
Good luck with your applications!
A voice from the other side:
I go to grad school and FH is in 2nd year law school. I work pretty damn hard. He works RIDICULOUSLY hard. He works every single spare moment.
You might think that's exaggeration. That's not exaggeration. He works
Every.
Single.
Spare.
Moment.
Like others have said, before you go to law school, be VERY VERY VERY sure you want that degree more than anything. It's very expensive and very soul-killing. My FH is on full scholarship, but it's still a big strain on me to support us both on my tiny teaching salary. We live below the poverty line. We eat dinner together each night, talk for 10 minutes before bed, and maybe squeeze in a pickup game on the weekend if he doesn't have too much to do. During the week, I don't bring up my problems, bills, etc, because there isn't time for him to address them/process them, and even if there was, he doesn't have the mental energy.
My FH usually doesn't have time to exercise, or watch tv, or go to a movie. I spend a considerable amount of each day making sure that he eats, sleeps, and isn't too stressed.
Now, I love him, I'd do anything for him, and I wouldn't give up our life for anything. But to be honest, I wouldn't put myself in his shoes for anything.
If this doesn't sound like what you want your marriage to be like, reconsider.
If there's ANYTHING else you'd like to do with your life, reconsider. It's as expensive as hell and there aren't many jobs out there, from what I hear. (And that's coming from someone in Academia - ha!)
Like I said, FH is on full scholarship. He also has contacts from when he used to work in the film industry that will probably lead to some kind of job after graduation. But this is not the case for the vast, vast majority of law school graduates. Most end up with no jobs or shitty jobs and mountains of debt.
If it's your dream, go for it. It will be insanely rewarding and insanely hard. But if I'm scaring you at all, reconsider.
I think you might be at an advantage since your husband will also be studying a lot. There was a rumor at my school that law school relationships last 6 weeks... but don't be scared by that. I think law school is tough on a relationship if the other person has a normal 9-5 job and has a lot of free time. I met my FI in law school (we started dating our first year) and it was great. It was nice to know that the person you are with is going through the exact same thing and understands that you can't go out every weekend night b/c you have to study. Your commute may suck but if you can take public transportation that would help so you could do your reading. I know a ton of people who commuted. If you have to drive a car, you can always listen to CDs of your courses.
A piece of advice- take out as little in student loans as possible. That's my one regret. My FI and I are looking close to 300K in student loans...
@EleanorRigby: Oh my gosh, I tell myself the same thing whenever I start thinking, "I hate this, whyyyy oh why did I get myself into this..." I also met my FI at the university I went to for law school (he was a grad student, not law). If it wasn't for meeting him there, I would gladly take a do-over.
OK this is not about the Law School, but about the commute. That is very common in the "real world" my FH commutes on averate 2.5 hours total each day. Many of my coworkers and his commute the same or more. It sucks, but its doable. As my mom says "You can do anything for a finite period of time".
As long as this is really what you want to do, then you wont mind the commute. If the commute is your biggest worry than this might not be the direction for you.
Being a lawyer has been my dream for a long time. I was talked out of it when I first started college my may father, who isn't a lawyer but who spends 90% of his work time with lawyers (he runs a hospitals self-insurance policy). He said that I wouldn't find a job, and I was scared of this.
I am still scared of not finding employment after law school. Terrified actually. I won't have to take out any loans to get this degree but the idea of not finding employment terrifies me. However, it really it what I want to do with my life. I have had the opportunity to shadow some lawyers, so I'm not basing my decision off of Law and Order.
From a lot of what I've read, almost all lawyers seem to hate their jobs. Does anyone know a lawyer who loves what they do? I won't mind the long hours or the busywork. And it’s a field I am very passionate about.
We are both students now. I take about 20-25 hours a semester, with special approval, and he is constantly studying, but we make time. I am just concerned about how worse this will get once we start grad school.
Public transportation isn't an option, alas, as we live in a small town.
@LB1989: I know 4 lawyers relatively close friends and not one likes what they do. On fact, 1 just up and quit his job. His old company wanted him back so much they offered him the same job with much more freedom and he took it back. They all thought they "would make a difference" or be "challenged" but they arent. Of course that is only the people I know. It doesnt mean its everyone.
I'm in my 1L year, so take this with a grain of salt. But I don't personally find law school to be any harder than I imagined it to be.
One of my close friends at school is in her first year of marriage. She lives in Manhattan and he lives in Connecticut and they could not be happier they chose this set-up. He comes into the the city every other weekend and they spend time together, the rest of the week she focuses completely on her school work. He is taking on a lot of overtime in the meanwhile (while still having lots of free to play video games and hang out with his friends) and building up their savings. It works for them. But, she also used to work for one of the top law firms in the country as a paralegal, so she knew what was in store from the beginning as far as the time commitment went.
Things have been going so well with my boyfriend that he is actually moving in come January. I am at school from around 8am until midnight Sunday through Thursday, Friday my school closes at sundown and Saturday it's closed all day. On Fridays I try and review my notes a little, but mostly get to bed early. Saturdays I study at home, I work in my corner of the apartment and he works in his office (aka, the walk-in closet) because Saturday is his day off too. He gets us bagels in the morning, we usually go out for a relaxing lunch and make dinner in the evening (we both end work early to watch a movie at like 10pm).
The point I am trying to make is it will be hard, and you will have to give up a lot to be in law school, but you can have a functioning relationship. The key I have found is doing as much work outside of the house as possible and being realistic with your time management. And know your limits and the limits of your SO, if he needs space, give it to him. If you need space, he needs to let you take it. Consider investing some of the cash gifts from the wedding in a housekeeper, sending out your laundry and food delivery and you should be okay.
Oh, an add on about lawyers liking their jobs. I worked for about 8 lawyers at the firm I worked for before law school. I would say 4 of them liked what they did, 3 loved it and 1 hated it at the time...but I think that was because he was working 18 hour days the month leading up to the birth of his first child.
On a whole, i know more lawyers who like their job than ones who don't.
It depends a lot on your practice area, on your senior partner and on what your expectations were of being a lawyer.
Hi-
I am about 10 years out of law school. I don't practice anymore (I discovered early how much I hated it, but then again, I hated law school too) but I work in a job that is related to the law, and having the JD gives me a lot more authority (and better pay) than those in my field that do not. This switch is a good one for me overall but if I had to do it over again, I would not choose law school. Most of the lawyers I know are generally pretty unhappy professionally (compared with our other friends in medicine, technology, and business). I would say 75% of the lawyers I know hate it, but for the small percent that enjoy it, they seem to really love it. You sound like you have done quite a bit of research and have a good sense of what you are getting into, so maybe you will be in that lucky few -- especially as you won't have debt shackling you and limiting your job choices. I will say that the job market is brutal, and especially so if the school is not well-known. Be sure to make time to network like mad after your first semester. The first semester, study like mad, and get the best grades you can.
During my first marriage, my exH and I spent much of our first year of marriage apart (he was in a travel-intensive job and I was just starting at a law firm) and I would avoid that situation if at all possible. We missed out on a lot of the things that help cement a marriage, in my opinion, and I believe this arrangement set the stage for many of our future problems. The pressures of professional school often take a huge toll on a relationship and being apart may amplify that. The good news is since you are both in school, you can hopefully study together. The commute will be a time-suck given that you obviously can't read when you are driving but see how you can use that time most effectively -- ie listening to lectures on tape or using the time to decompress, whatever is most helpful for you. Most of the married law students I knew had some commute and some had also had kids, and many of them were among the best students in our class because they were super-organized about their time and didn't get sucked into the drama of the law school scene. Good luck!
My father is a lawyer, and has been for 30 years. He is not one of those who hate it, but he certainly doesn't love it. From what I can tell he likes it well enough and it pays the bills. About 15 years ago he took a job covering 1 legal administration course (on his lunch break) at the local community college. He loved it WAY more than lawyering, so he did both.. full time, for YEARS. Now he teaches full time for his happiness, and practices part time for the money. He has always told me that if he knew better he probably wouldn't have gone into law school, but that he doesn't regret the decision as being a lawyer has afforded him a great life.
I think the point of that ramble, is that if you know that it's something that you want, then do what you have to do to make it happen. You sound like you are driven and determined to get into law school, if you don't go, how will you feel? The last thing you want to be is resentful and angry that you didn't get to follow your dream. Maybe you can commute for the first bit, and if you feel really stressed and need more time to study, then look for a place closer to your school where you can live during the week and commute back and forth on weekends.
@lefeymw: Now that I read the post again, I agree with you that it is about commuting and not "should I go to law school." Most of us are trying to talk her out of it! Now, I feel bad!
@LB1989: The commute is not going to be that bad. Sure it's not 15 mins, but tons of people commute. It will mostly suck the first year since you can't chose your classes and most of them will start at 10. But after that, you can make your own schedule. I think it will work out for you since your husband will be studying as much as you! Just enjoy the next 1.5 with each other and save as much money as you can!
i'll jump in as a lawyer who loves what she does. the thing with law school i think comes down to expectations and what you want to do with your j.d. after graduation. and, you have to know that without scholarships, there is likely to be an extreme amount of debt that goes with it.
but the same is true of pretty much any graduate school - hell, i have friends who graduated from college with crazy amounts of debt, and i don't know that it can be avoided.
i currently work in a small, 2 person firm, and love it. honestly, i have friends on every range of the "law job" spectrum - from making 6 figures right out of law school to another friend who despite her skills just cannot find a job - but at the end of the day, you have to make sure that you REALLY want to be a lawyer, because thats whats going to have to get you through the crappy days when you want to just crawl up back in bed and the sad day when your student loans come due (that was a DARK day)
as far as your relationship and the commute, honestly, it probably isnt going to be easy, but definitely doable - you're going to have to consciously set aside time to spend with each other, even if its just sitting on the couch - the commute is a bit far, but as long as youre ready for it, go for it
all in all, just make sure you really evaluate your options and make sure that this is really what you want, along with all of the less pleasant things that go with it - good luck with whatever you choose!
Hmm...okay, I already mentioned on the other thread that I didn't enjoy (at all) being a lawyer, but I DID like law school. And, honestly, I didn't think it was all that much work. More work than undergrad? Definitely. But unless it was the two weeks leading up to finals, I definitely didn't put 40 hours a week into law school (or even close to that). Maybe my experience was atypical, but my friends definitely didn't put 40 hrs/wk into studying either. And we went to a top 15 law school, all had pretty good grades, mainly ended up at large firms (which most of us have now left) etc. One friend I had did study like crazy, but I don't think it was actually necessary.
I'm just saying that if you truly want to go to law school (and are sure you want to be a lawyer), it really might not be as bad as you think. There were the people in my class who basically lived at the library, but I'm not sure how much good it actually did them (besides making them unhappy people). You need have a basic idea of what is going on (reading assignments) for class, but the hard work doesn't really come into play until finals time. I guess I just thought of it like studying for undergrad finals - except I gave myself an extra week of cramming.
Just my experience...
Thanks to everyone who replied. Its still a long way off, but I really appriciated everyone's response.
Just to add one more opinion to the pot - my now-husband and I were in grad school at the same time. During my 1L he worked a normal, entry-level, lots-of-time-for-partying job, and it kind of sucked. I was having to work really hard and study really long hours and he just didn't get it. But then - for my 2L and 3L - we were in professional programs at the same time and lived together. IT WAS TERRIBLE. Mostly because I never saw him even though we shared an apartment. What little time we had together was spent arguing over whose turn it was to go to the grocery store or clean the bathroom, because neither of us had time to take care of our home. Add the stress of living on a really tight income - that you know you have to pay back - and it's just a lot for a relationship. That said, I think it is better to be in school together if you can swing it. Just make sure your priorities, expectations, and chore wheel are set in stone before you start. :o)
@nicole1285: Agreed!
Everyone is so doomsday about law school. The job market for lawyers is really rough right now, but it will come back. Just for some perspective.... I graduated last year with mediocre grades from a mediocre school. I have a job I love and do not regret my decision to attend law school at all. 1st year isn't that bad...not everyone ends up divorced like people will tell you when you begin. And after 1st year, you can choose your courses so your schedule is more convenient. Commuting sounds awful, but I'm sure you can make it work. Just make sure you are driving a fuel efficient vehicle!
FI and I are both in med school, and it actually works in a weird way because we're both so busy all the time. We understand if one of us has to study instead of hang out, and we totally take care of each other when one of us is super busy. It also makes the time we do get together really nice. Grad school sucks regardless, but at least you'll have someone going through it with you.
If you take my attitude towards law school, you'll be fine: do not let them break you, its all a mind trick lol. I knew that if I didn't study my butt off and graduate in the top third, I could kiss a job goodbye...so I worked. I studied until I couldn't study anymore, and then after the first year, I got a job and it was fine- my last two years were a walk in the park, literally. The thing I didn't do was get all emotionally wrapped up in it- I still don't. To me, thi sis a job, it facilitates my life and enables me to fund fun trips and nights out that I otherwise could not, and it lets me be free of the money worries that break up a lot of relationships. Its nothing more. If you can separate yourself from the law school "drama," you will be, and by derivation, your husband will be, fine.
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I am getting married in a year and a half, March 2012. In the fall after we get married, my fiancé will be starting vet school while I start law school (hopefully). Vet school is extremely difficult, on par with med school, and law school is obviously no walk in the park. Neither of us wants to put our schooling goals on hold, and we don't have children. Also, financially we should be able to get by for that period. The law school I want to go to (and have the grades and practice LSAT score to meet their standards) is about an hour away from where we live now, and where his vet school is.
So truly, how horrific will both of us being in very difficult graduate schools be on our first year of marriage? And how bad will a two hour commute (both ways) be on law school? I don't want to live separately our first year of marriage, but I don’t want to move either, and there are really no towns in between the two schools, so either living separately or a commute is my option. Any advice would be wonderful.