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Advice for new parents from a college professor. Don't involve your kids in....

posted 1 year ago in Babies
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    evalague    June 28, 2011  

    Please don't follow the "everyone gets a trophy just for showing up" fad. You see all kinds of sports programs and other things where EVERYONE wins, nobody keeps score, etc. They are designed to "build self esteem." They are damanging your child's ability to succeed in life. The kids that grew up during this fad are hitting my college classrooms now. They can't (or don't) study because they expect that no matter what score they earn, they will get an A. At the same time, colleges are cutting down on what they call "grade inflation" that is teachers caving into pressure to give good grades just to cut down on complaining. As a result of wide-spread grade inflation more employers are devaluing high GPAs or even the Bachelor's degrees altogther (notice how many employers want Master's degrees at a minimum?). So, as a result professors are giving students the grade they EARNED (and for many, this will be the first time this ever happened to them). Oh, the scandals that ensue. The crying, the yelling, the threats, the telling the dean (which does not work), the conspiracy accusations, the trashing on facebook and rate-your-professor, etc. Then when it keeps happening to them, they think the world is against them and they can't go on (as in they can't finish school). Please don't do this to your kids. Self esteem does not come from always winning, it comes from working hard and earning something. It comes from dignified losing and trying  harder next time and then seeing improvement. Sheltering your kids from reality only delays their entry into reality and then, I think, makes the blow much harder to take. Kids are reslient, ill-prepared adults - not so much.  

     
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    I have to disagree. Back to the sports/trophy part- I think that's such a terrible analogy.  I can remember playing t-ball as a little girl and I was really tiny and shy and nobody ever let me play.  I would always get picked last for the kickball team during PE.  And then, in gymnastics, i wasn't the best.  I did, however, show up to every match/game and practice that I was supposed to attend and I practiced at home (even if it didnt show because i was terrible and incredibly quiet and shy).  The day I got a trophy with my name on it for Gymnastics was probably the happiest day of my life at that point.  It was never fair that I wasn't as good as the other kids, but I showed up and did my part- even if that meant sitting on the sidelines and going unnoticed.

     

    My parents would always tell me I was the best though.  No matter how much i practiced, I never got any better at sports.  I loved that the built me up though.

     

    I turned out to be pretty successful.

     

    Do you have children?

     
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    And also, in the Upwards Sports Leagues, there is no score and everybody wins.  It's a Christian organization and I think it's great for team building and self-esteem.  That way, nobody is a "loser" the next day at school.

     
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    MissAsB    June 6, 2009   Married in CO, Living in AL

    I think there is a difference between applying yourself in school and in sports.  I'm horrible in sports so I almost never was picked near the beginning for teams.  I was in some leagues where 'everyone is a winner' when I was very small but I still understood the value of working hard for my grades in school.

     
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    meggyo    September 25, 2010   Chicago, IL

    i agree with @evalague. life isn't "everyone wins" and i don't think you should raise your children into thinking that's the truth. you win/succeed when you work hard. losing is a part of life and no matter how much it sucks, they'll have to learn it at some point.

     
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    cbee    July 26, 2010  

    These are KIDS we are talking about.  I see nothing wrong with not keeping score in sports.  Sports, when you are children, are suposed to be fun.  I am amazing in school and was always shy (after my parents divorce and move) and it was horrible to be forced to play sports when I all ready had no self esteem.  I think people get way too wrapped up in sports, personally.  It also depends how old these kids are.  Sports can teach you the value of striving to be better, and that it pays off, and that is a valuable thing for life.  However, to each his own.  If I had a kid that just wanted to be out there, like I did, and have fun, and not have the feeling they had to be perfect and have people yelling at them when they didn't win- I would let them join that league- sports can be fun!  As an adult, I enjoy playing sports and games where we don't keep track, and just enjoy one another and our time having fun.  Also, some kids have damaged self esteem all ready- and are afraid to partake in sports because they feel any love they get is from being perfect, so they don't even try to step out on the field.  Being in a welcoming environment where you dont have to be perfect would be good for them, and for the kind of kid I was.  It all depends where you are coming from.

     
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    rachelss    August 22, 2010   Fort Collins, CO

    I know so many college profs with exactly the same feelings. Students think because they studied they should get a good grade. In that way it is the same as sports - you work hard, you're not good, but you get a trophy. I did my share of sports and music when I was a kid and I knew how good I was compared to others (somewhere in the middle). The winner should be the person who was the best. And if I wanted to work harder to be better that was fine. It may not be fair that the little kid doesn't get picked in kickball, but the not-so-good student won't get picked to go to Harvard either. Kids should get used to that, and they should find an area they can excel in and enjoy, rather than being rewarded for hard work with mediocre performance. It's okay to get B's and C's in some classes (if you try really hard) so long as you are getting A's and loving other classes.

     
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    amykate    November 21, 2010   San Diego

    It isn't a matter of enrolling your kids in the program it is the way parents handle the outcome. I own a business where a trophy is given to each child for completing the year. Kids do have to finish the year to receive the trophy and it is part of learn to follow through on a commitment.

    It isn't always the organization that is to "blame" it is how the parents react to the situation in my opinion. 

     
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    brittanymichelle    June 5, 2010   Cheyenne, Wy

    i think i would have to completly AGREE!! i see so many children with no morals, values, or even motivation... i think that there are also problems leading to this, but the 'everyone wins' thing is also a contibuter! my son knows that when he does great, we will let him know.. and that when he does porely, we come up with ways to be better next time... it has the same idea as cleaning your room.. my 5 year old cleans his own room.. when he does a good job, i tell him 'you did a really good job cleaning your room! you wanna try and do it again tomorrow just as good?" and if he half-asses it i tell him "you did a good job putting away your stuffed animals, but you stuffed your dirty clothes in the closet. you should get those clothes and toss them in the hamper so you don't have to worry about it later, and tomorrow we will try to remember to get them out." positive reinforcement is a great thing.. but your shouldn't positively reinforce negative, or not positive actions... maybe it's just us @evalague! lol

     
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    ejs4y8    June 20, 2009  

    sports vs education....totally different. I dunno, i wanted to win when i played. I didn't like losing--nobody did. It brought a competitive nature in me. I think everybody getting a trophy and "oh let's have fun" is a joke....in the sports arena. Sometimes you have to go home, feel like a loser, strike out 8 times, and say, "you know what, I WILL get better". Or find a sport that you're good at. Last i checked, kids don't like sports they suck at. Then again, I played in a competitive sports league. If you weren't good, you got cut. Maybe the kids who got cut went to programs where everybody wins. I don't see anything wrong with offering them...not all kids are good at sports. But I don't see how a little competition and drive to improve yourself is a bad thing. Then again, everybody in my family (and DH's familiy) is fairly athletic. I was 5'9" at 13 years old--there was no getting around it =]

    I will say I've had my fair share of college classes that were SO DIFFICULT that the class average was a whopping 45%. Somehow we all passed with B's. So the professor didn't look bad. And you know what? can't say I feel good about knowing I essentially failed a class and got passed JUST so it didn't reflect poorly on the professor. My thought was that maybe the professor should make the course manageable so we actually learned something. Now, these were graduate engineering college courses--I really have a hard time believing the students in these classes were not intelligent or unmotivated.

    But i have to say, I do agree. Unfortunately, real life has winners and losers and I don't think it's a bad thing for kids to learn that.

     
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    hyphensmith    February 4, 2011   Redondo Beach, CA, Wedding in Montego Bay, Jamaica

    evalague, I'm with you!  I coached track for 10 years and even though every kid got a small participation trophy, I always gave out the special bigger trophies to kids that earned it!  You have to have an MVP, Most Improved, etc to give kids something to work for!  If everyone gets a trophy and everyone always wins...what is there to strive for in life?  I feel that mentality puts kids at a disadvantage, if you always win then how will you be prepared in the real world where we don't always win?

     
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    laural    September 24, 2011   Louisiana

    I 100% agree! I personally think that is ridiculous that all kids playing a sport should get a trophy. It is just the same as saying all kids that attended high school should get a scholarship to college just because they showed up and passed.

    Not everyone who tries will succeed. It is what you do with your failures that make you the person you are.

    I vividly remember one year playing softball (which I later got a college scholarship for) that I did not make the all american elite team after a terrible preliminary round of tryouts and another girl that was a friend of mine did and the next day was her birthday and she and a few friends including myself were going to spend the day at her home. I went home and cried about how I didn't want to go to the party and I didn't want to see her because she got my spot on the elite team. My parents literally told me to suck it up because there will always be people who are better than you at some things and it is not her fault I didn't make the team. I am so glad I learned that lesson early in life that you cannot blame others for your short comings. I think that competitive sports are excellent character builders and the every child wins equally is complete pointless and has potential to really delay childrens development.

     
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    rachelss    August 22, 2010   Fort Collins, CO

    @brittanymichelle - it sounds like you've got the positive reinforcement thing down pat - I hope I can do that with my kids

    I agree with all who said sports are supposed to be fun - that means you don't need a trophy and you can be terrible, but you still enjoy it

     
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    bryce234    August 7, 2010  

    I'm not sure that giving out trophies to 5-year-old teeball players is what makes kids grow up to be useless whiners in college.  There's got to be more to it than that.  First of all, kids aren't stupid.  They know the difference between a trophy you get for winning first place and a trophy you get for showing up and paying the entrance fee. 

    I think the real problem is that high school is just too easy.  That's why kids can't handle college when they get there.  They're used to school being a joke and to getting straight As just for showing up.  I don't know how to fix that problem though.  I'm just saying I don't think little league sports trophies are the culprit.

     
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    mrsv2be    September 22, 2010  

    This is how I feel about my high school diploma! Worked my behind off, graduated 7th in my class, but it doesn't matter. Everyone else got one, too, and now I'm competing against them for the same jobs.

     
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    ChaiAnkh99    August 12, 2011   Boston

    I agree that kids should not be rewarded just for showing up, but I also agree with bryce234 that kids are not stupid.  I played baseball in first grade, and my team was awful. We won exactly two games, and those were the only two I didn't attend.  At the end of the season, everyone got a trophy, but I wondered, "What for? We lost all the time!"

    I think it's ridiculous not to keep score.  There is a winning team and a losing team; that's how sports work. I think it's important that a kid learn at a young age how to handle losing (without sulking/crying) and how to handle winning (without rubbing it in the losing team's faces).

     
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    JuneBride_26June2010    June 26, 2010   Indiana (legally married 13-Apr-2009)

    @evalague: my husband and I couldn't agree MORE!!!!!!! both of us absolutely hate "everyone's a winner" sorry but no they're not. I understand a lot of people will disagree and even get offended by that - but seriously. I grew up as the "ugly duckling" - never the populare one, always picked last and I had to work HARD to get where I am - both with my career and my looks/social status.

    you HAVE to learn about being disappointed as a child. LIke it or not - it's true. If you don't learn what disappointment is, you'll never learn how to push yourself and truly do what you need to do in order to succeed in life.

     
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    mrstilly    May 15, 2010   Ithaca, NY

    There is a difference between giving young children a chance to learn in a non-competitive environment (sports especially) and sending kids and teens the message that everyone is always a winner.

    The attitude that many teens and college kids have these days is disgusting. Few kids actually read anymore, and few study hard, yet they all expect to do well.

    My step brother feels very entitled. He "HAD" to go to Boston Univeristy becuase he is above state schools, and ended up flunking out because he didn't do the work. A complete waste of $50,000 for one year!

    When my kids are young, I will definitely give them the encouragment and non-competitive environment to learn skills, but they will also know the value of hard work, doing your best, and always working to do better. There needs to be a balance between everyone winning, and things being so competitve that they loose all motivation. Especially with younger kids.

     
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    Bamboo    June 2010   Midwest

    Yea...everyone getting t-ball trophies is not the same as grade inflation to me. I think rewarding children for things like participation and improvement are important because positive attitudes and success are quite related and rewards like trophies keep kids involved. It is really important to build childrens' self esteem! But by high school and college there is definitely more emphasis on actual performance. GRADES are not the same as that. I would be very happy if my professors stopped with insane grade inflation...

     
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    Sereneathena12    February 7, 1991  

    Did you ever consider the politics of grade inflation? It's not all about making the professors look good, it's about making the school look good. The president of my school (a very expensive private school) is OBSESSED with being better than an ivy. In the end, students' grades are what gets them into a grad school (along with the relevant tests). Having a high GPA will get more students into top tier grad schools and increase statistics, thus making my school look good and increasing application rates. Even if more students can't get accepted (how big can the school really get?), they still pay $75 to apply and later rejected without a refund. That being said, my brother is 5-years-old and he just finished his first t-ball season. Everyone got a trophy and no one kept score. The kids don't care about the score! They want to catch the ball, run around, slide into bases and get dirty with their friends. The parents don't talk about winning or losing, they encourage their children to give it their best shot and cheer them on if they strike out (yes it's possible at t-ball). Give them a break. Bad parenting makes kids annoying brats, not getting a tiny trophy before age 10.

     
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    808bride    October 10, 2009   Hawaii

    I like the idea of giving kids trophies related to their strengths. Everyone wins one but you  get a particular 'strength'' of your character noticed. "Kindness Award" "Perfect Attendance" "Most Spirited" "Friendship Award" "Most points scored" "Leadership Award" etc.  It shows off the team's core values, creates unity within the team's diversity and everyone is included in the celebration of success.  I think that it helps kids build realistic self esteem while putting emphasis on a variety of positive values/qualities. Parents who put kids in sports usually have the intent to make their kids well rounded, not hinder their progress through discouragement  (few awards given) or inflated sense of self  (generic awards).

     
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    peanutlovespumpkin    9-18-10   Los Angeles

    um, as a student who grew up playing in the "everybody wins" sports stuff as a young kid, I did not expect to get all A's at all; in fact, I worked very hard for them.  I think it's important to build confidence when children are younger - especially in girls.  There is plenty of time to "learn from failure" in jr high and high school.  I don't see how giving a 5 year old a piece of plastic is spoiling them.

     
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    evalague    June 28, 2011  

    VERY INTERESTING conversation everyone!! To address the poster above who talked about professors that are soo hard, that is not me. I know they exist and that kind of reverse-grade-inflatoin is also being cracked down on.  My dean is getting on my case for being too nice. My grades are pretty well distributed on the bell-curve. Very few F's or D's (maybe 1 in a class of 33 and that person gerally had to miss alot of class), A fair number of A's (usually about 10-15% of the class) and lots of B's and C's. Mine WAS the class where if you show up, and study - you were likely to do pretty well. But now, I have students who want to show up and text message or surf the net and not study and STILL do well...

    I too was the kid that had Asthma and was ugly and got picked on and was never asked to be on a team and I had to learn the hard lessons. So I am not being mean to "those kids" -- I was one. I also competed in figure skating and I won, lost, and everything in between. We got ribbons for passing certain levels but you had to earn that. I worked on one level for 2 years! But, somehow (and I guess it was how I was raised) I never developed this sense of entitlement that today's kids seem to have. I see a variety of fingers being pointed to the schools, to the parents, just not sure what's happening to our kids...

     
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    cbee    July 26, 2010  

    Grades and trophies- so different.  And, there is a lot involved in a kid's situation.  Not all kids have the support they need at home, so making them feel valued in sports when they are little- I don't see a problem with that.  I also think an important psychological aspect is being overlooked here- often times the children that do the best are the most unhappy.  Please don't get me wrong- I am not saying that is the case for everyone.  I am saying it is okay to let kids be kids and not put pressure on them.  They are alive, they do have pressure in other aspects of life.  Kids shouldn't have to feel they need to be the best to get love or even a trophy.  That may sound ridiculous, but I am trying to say that building a child's self esteem is important and impacts them for life.  Feelings of discouragement and worthlessness likely lead to worse problems. 

    Rewarding kids for mediocrity?  In a way that tells them it is okay to not have to be the best, and that IS what some kids need.

    Also, it is natural to compete, so just because you dont keep score does't mean you dont try your best. 

     
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    I agree with evalague.  There are other ways of teaching success and self-esteem than giving false realities of the world, especially with sports when there is clearly always a winner or a loser.  I do agree that grades and sports are very different, but I think the lessons learned from either are very similar and can apply to either area.  If you always get a trophy and feel like a winner in sports, I can definitely understand why a child or teenager would expect that to crossover into their academics.  I was quite involved in sports growing up and was also a straight A student. I think the competiveness that I learned from sports impacted how I treated my academics, and I hope to give my future child(ren) the same learning experience. They can take or leave whatever lessons from it that they would like.

     
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    MissFlipFlops    February 25, 2009  

     No offence but I think that it is absolutely ridiculous that you expect a 5 year old to get handed a trophy while another 5 year old has to sit there and watch and not feel good enough. Mentally, 5 year olds cannot comprehend winning and losing and how its apart of life. They slowly learn that. Are you going to start taking your 3 year old to a bunch of funerals so they comprehend that they WILL die one day? A little harsh sounding isn't it? Some children just are not good at sports for what ever reason whether is be, physical reasons (diseases, physical abilities or mental abilities) or that they just dont have the confidence to do well.

      Are you a mother? I am the mother of a 2 year old and I can tell you when he starts T-ball in 3 years that when he has to sit there and watch his playmate get handed a trophy because he was "better" then my son, I get the job of trying to convince a 5 year old that "he was just not good enough so try harder next year". If you are going to be so harsh on children then you should really understand how a 5 year old doesn't comprehend that type of psychcology.

      P.S. I don't agree that once a child hits an age (middle/high school) where he/she CAN comprehend winning or losing that the "everyone wins" system is okay. I'm just saying that you can't be so hard on children. Unreasonable expectations is where you get low self-esteem. Also, sports and grades are two VERY different things. I know many, many great athletes with learning disabilities and wonderful students who cannot catch a ball.

     

     
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    caszos    June 2010   Florida

    I think a lot of people are taking the sports analogy a bit too far.  Yes 5 year olds are a bit young to comprehend why Johnny got a trophy but Sally didn't.  There is a gradual progression though that kids need to "grow up" on so that they can learn how to succeed in life.   Yes a 5 year old may not be able to understand how to keep score in tee-ball but by the time they are playing baseball as 7 year olds they need to know how to keep score, play fair, and play as a team.  

    My nephew is on a soccer team and one of the strongest players.  He knows it, but they teach him that he is no better than the weakest player on the team and he has to play and help his teammates.  

    I think there are lots of other things today besides sports that inflate self esteem.  Kids need to learn that like sports, if they aren't the best on the team (or in the classroom earning A's) then they need to work harder.  

    Bottom line, LIFE IS NOT FAIR!  Kids (and many adults) need to learn this.  The sooner you learn this, you can learn to work and live around this.  

     
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    JuneBride_26June2010    June 26, 2010   Indiana (legally married 13-Apr-2009)

    Here's the thing, too - granted, I understand the statement that you DON'T want to basically tell your 5 year old child that he's a "loser" because, yes - that's mean. I get that. BUT when you constantly hand out trophies and tell them they are a "winner" just for showing up - where is the incentive for them to LEARN how to better themselves? When you tell a kid he's good at something when he's obviously not - he won't LEARN that "hey, i WANT to be good at this - so I should work harder to BE better".

    Adults don't get raises at work for "just showing up".  At my place of employment, we have to give a monthly report of everything we do - then a mid-year and a yearly. Those reports go to the supervisors who then decide who gets "exceeds, meets and needs improvement". Those who get a "needs improvement" do NOT get a raise. It's as plain and simple as that. Those who get an "exceeds" get a higher raise and those who "meet" get the basic. And that's how it should be because then you KNOW if you want a higher raise, you have to really do the work to get an "exceeds" and obviously you don't want to get the "needs improvement".

    Again, I'm not saying we need to be mean and rude to a 5 year old - and yes, obviously there's a huge difference between the learning curve of a 5 year old and a 25 year old - but seriously - once you're an adult - they don't care about your feelings when handing out a "needs improvement".

    And that's the point - if you go through life thinking "hey, as long as I show up I'll get a reward" then THAT will follow you into adulthood - and life is NOT like that!

    Again, yes there's a fine line and you need to treat your children in a different manner - definitely teach them that it's great that they gave it their best - but not to the extent that people seem to nowadays by "rewarding" them for just showing up.

    But if our kids were on a t-ball team and the WINNING team gets to go for ice cream - then no, I don't believe that the losing team should, too, because you're "rewarding" them for losing? And no, I don't have kids - but I WAS that kid. I didn't get ice cream when my team lost! And I'm a perfectly adjusted adult!

     
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    That sense of entitlement comes from PARENTS not "everyone wins" programs. I work with elementary/middle school kids and live in an upper middle class area. Kids feel entitled because their parents give them whatever they want. In turn, their teachers give them whatever they want because they just don't want to deal with the whining/tantrums. Most of the kids I work with are in highly competitive sports teams where there are winners/losers so it doesn't seem to be the "everyone wins" programs that are making them feel like the world owes them.

     
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    MissAsB    June 6, 2009   Married in CO, Living in AL

    @babyboo: Well said!

     
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    Twista    October 2, 2010   Roanoke, VA

    @evalague:  You can blame parents for giving their kids a sense of entitlement, but you can also blame your fellow professors for bending to the pressure of those students and parents to change their grades to reflect better on them.  Also, it's not sports programs that are giving kids unrealistic expectations, it's the parents who write their children's papers and do their children's science fair projects.  Don't blame programs that do good for the handful of kids whose parents never taught them to get ahead on their own merits. 

     
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    brittanymichelle    June 5, 2010   Cheyenne, Wy

    @rachelss: thanks! it isn't easy that is for sure!! but totally worth it! he defiantely knows that you don't get rewarded for not trying hard..

    i had to work my butt off.. i was in a wheelchair in high school, and i played softball in junior high.. but no matter the age.. you have to work for what you get or you end up with all these brats!! if you give your child handouts all the time and then one day decide to make them work for what they want.. good luck!! you have to start early or they don't understand... i didn't graduate high school and when i got to college i worked my but off and graduated with my associates with a 3.79.. not too bad if you ask me... but the summary would be that no matter if you 2, 22 or 52 you need to work for what you want and pay the consequences when you don't try or everyone will be on goverment handouts and not ever trying to get off of them..

     
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    bkchi    July 10, 2010   NYC

    @babyboo I completely agree. The way parents raise their children dictate their sense of entitlement.  And it's not just middle class/upper middle class families. I teach in a school with a high poverty rate and I see parents doing their children's homework, making excuses for why they did not do their work, demanding that I retest them when they scored poorly, instead of letting them learn life's lessons.  I see parents constantly rewarding poor behavior and poor performance with video games, IPODs, name brand sneakers, etc. 

    There are stages of development in which people have to start learning a)not everyone wins b)sometimes even when you work hard, you still don't win or get a good grade.  It's a gradual learning process, but it is a must that these facts of life are introduced prior to middle/high school.

    @Twista, I really don't blame the college professors for this phenomenon as much as the parents, because this sense of entitlement is so engrained by the time they reach college. The seeds were planted long ago.

     

     

     

     

     

     
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    lilyfaith    June 23, 2012   Lakeview, Chicago

    What kids learn comes partially from environment, sure, but it mostly stems from what they're taught at home... I think the bigger problem stem from how parents coddle their kids throughout school. 

    Keep in mind I am a PART of this "slacker" generation. My parents wouldn't stand for any of it (I'm glad now) and I remember doing very poorly in science competitions, etc, against kids whose parents did their projects for them. I was so outraged at the time, but it taught me that I was the only one responsible for my grades. Come high school, and I was in honors classes. Many of the kids complained that the work schedule was unfair, etc, and had their parents complain about grades, reading lists, and the like. I enjoyed it and took honors classes in subjects that I truly wanted to learn more about - I scored high enough on every AP test I took to negate the college class for it. I was one of the only ones who did. 

    I was not a straight A student. I'm still not. But I think it has very little to do with participation trophies, and much more to do with the fact that parents have a hard time letting their children struggle. If you don't struggle, you can't learn. What's important is not a participation trophy attained from a five-year-old's soccer league. Are you kidding? I got one of those, and I knew I was terrible. So did all the other kids - the only ones that "counted" were those won by the athletic kids. 

    Grade inflation is definitely a problem, and it hurts students who don't get it and (IMO) those who do receive it, and then struggle or fail out of the program they got into because of the grade inflation. But I think it's a pretty far leap to assume that it has anything to do with the "everybody wins" attitude in sports. 

     
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    MissFlipFlops    February 25, 2009  

      Reading over other comments I have to say that I completely agree that most of how kids turn out is their PARENTS. I struggled in school. I was a C student and if I recieved a B I was VERY excited. I remember my junior year of high school I worked my butt off on our final exam project in Economics. This project really decided whether I passed or failed that class. My old best friend on the other hand, was a naturally straight A student and I could never figure out why because I felt I worked just as hard on everything. I read over her project and KNEW mine was better. My mother and father looked over both hers and mine. There was just no doubt about it. I spent hours where as she spent minutes. The grades finally came out and what did I get? Of course I got a D+ where as she got an A-.

      Did she end up taking all that "work ethic" and go off to college? NO. If I can recall she was pregnant at graduation and married the first loser she ever met. She could of went into ANY college where as I could only go to Community. She now lives off of food stamps at her sisters house with 2 babies of her own. She isn't even 21 years old yet.

     A few years ago she admitted to me that her mother would talk to the teachers if she didn't feel that her grades were high enough and when she didn't makes the cheerleading team....well...her mother fixed that too. Which was something I wanted but was cut after tryouts. My mother just let me cry it out and told me to move onto something else.

      It really isn't about trophies at all. It's about parents AND teachers. Teachers shouldn't be push overs and parents need to toughin up with their kids. Their OLDER kids. Not children.

     

     
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    ms.pascua    June 25, 2010   Los Angeles, CA

    @evalague: My hubby & I agree..."everybody wins" trophy sports are NOT where our future kids will play.  If, by some twist of fate (we're both rather athletic), our children are not good at sports, they will be taught how to improve if they wish to continue in said sport.  If they wish to stop participating, they'll be allowed to do so after the current season is over (we don't like "quitting" either).  If, by some twist of fate (we're both rather academic as well), our kids don't do well in school, they will be taught how to improve there, too (damn well better be taught, since I'm a teacher!).  All along the way, they'll be encouraged to try harder, taught how to try harder (just "trying" isn't a guarantee for improvement - parents, teachers, & coaches are responsible to guiding improvement to get the desired results - coaching a kid to run faster isn't going to necessarily improve his/her batting average - teaching a kid to do their homework longer isn't necessarily going to improve his/her math grades), & praised for working hard as well as doing well.

    @ChaiAnkh99: Absolutely agree with you...it's how kids are taught to handle the outcome.  Role models (like parents, teachers, & coaches) should teach kids how to lose with dignity, how to work towards improvement, & how to win gracefully. 

    @bryce234: As a high school teacher, I agree...I hate the fact that some teachers dumb down the curriculum so that everyone gets it or give any kind of homework result an "A".  Personally, I find that No Child Left Behind is partly to blame...when the law forces you to teach to the least capable student, other kids in the class check out & grades become a joke.  It's up to the teacher to create challenging lessons that can involve the least capable & the most capable, & help both improve to the utmost of their ability...and that takes dedication & talent that most people think is not well compensated by a teacher's salary.  *steps off soapbox*

    @bkchi: completely agree with everything you said & just wanted to add one more kind of parent: the kind of parents that take any criticism of their child (whether it's a bad grade, a parent teacher conference, a "bad" call at a game, etc.) as a personal affront, refuse to correct the behavior that caused the criticism, & instead, teach their kids that complaining loudly enough, frequently enough, or threateningly enough (whether physically or litigiously) will change the outcome. 

    On the flip side...kids need to be taught that winning & being the smartest isn't "everything".  Just as competition isn't required to teach a kid that life isn't fair, "everyone wins" isn't necessary to build self-esteem either.  Like most things, there needs to be a balance.  I think it's great that some schools & teams give trophies for the kid who is "Most Improved" & has "Perfect Attendance" - tenacity for improving & consistency in following through by showing up are both qualities that colleges & employers look for.   Getting a trophy for talents that are needed to make a team better or a student stronger (not just the most valuable or the smartest) SHOULD be rewarded...however, giving EVERYONE a trophy just for being alive that season or year is not necessary. 

     
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    evalague    June 28, 2011  

    @ms.pascua: You rock!!!!!!!

     
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    Buzzing bee
    gabrielleelise1981    August 28, 2010   Portland, Maine

    @evalague:

    I agree. My FH is a professor, and encountered many students who thought they were entitled to certain grades. When he taught at Dartmouth, he had 2 students tell him flat out “my parents are not paying for C’s” - and even after he explained why they didn’t get better grades, they were stunned he wouldn’t just raise their grade…it was just a nasty sense of entitlement – and one that was fostered from years of being told how absolutely fabulous they were, and that they were always the “winners.”

    I think the entitlement comes both from parents, but also from “everyone’s a winner” activities, whether they are sports or arts or music or whatever.

    I played competitive violin and danced ballet from elementary through high school, and my brother played baseball from t-ball through high school. Some competitions I won, some I didn’t – even at 7 or 8 years old, and it wasn’t the end of the world. Not everyone was told they were winners. There is a big gray area between the “winner” and being a “loser”, and parents can explain those differences – including, that sometimes, they breaks just don’t go your way – or that sometimes, you have an off day, but that you work hard and try again tomorrow.

    Sometimes my brother made the “all-star” team, a few times he didn’t. If he had a crappy game, there wasn’t a big gathering telling him how special he was – my dad would be very nice about it of course, but just say that everyone has off-games and off-days and that YOU CAN’T WIN THEM ALL. Then they would go practice. We had a ton of great support from our parents, but not a lot of coddling and telling us constantly that we were the best.

    Heck, my ballet teachers were old school (Russian), and they certainly didn’t have any “everyone is equally great – “you’re all winners” mentality. Yes, they sometimes made me cry. My violin teacher was a stickler for posture, and wasn’t especially nice if you slouched. Both my brother and I are well adjusted adults who were not scared for life to lose and understand you are not always entitled to a reward just because you participate, and that sometimes the breaks just don’t go your way – fair or unfair. That’s life.

    I think a lot of children now are being coddled way too much and told how absolutely special and unique everything they do is from everyone from parents to teachers to activity directors to tv – and when they hit college, they do expect to be treated like the stars their parents have made them, and many of them will fail. It doesn’t do those kids any favors.

     
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    KellyV    September 12, 2009   New York, NY

    @babyboo and @ms.pascua - WELL SAID!  I grew up in a time of "winners vs losers" and I turned out just fine.  It teaches a life lesson early on, the parents have to reinforce it and explain that not everyone wins all the time.

     
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    Future Mrs. Martin    August 21, 2010   London Ontario Canada

    I agree 100%!

    And this is scientifically being studied right now! They are calling them generation ME or the entitlement generation! I am in academia as well and I am seeing it in the classroom as well!

    evalague is just talking about ONE of the causes of this new generation of students but there are many other factors as well (and I can only remember a few right now):

    • school boards aren't failing students as much if at all - which gives them an over self confidence that they cannot fail
    • they have instant gratification from the internet and email - which results in them complaining if they have to wait for anything

    When I went to academic conference on education in anatomy there was a whole seminar on teaching generation Me.


    They are getting into med school and the over confidence of med students already added on to generation Me sounds like it's going to be fun!


    Now remember this is a generalization of an entire GENERATION and does not represent individual people or kids so when people are bringing in their individual experiences that's great but moreso how does giving a trophy for losing affect an entire generation of kids NOT one person!

     

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