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Ugh, CT, I don't even know why I'm voting. I went to a non-top tier school. I got into law school really young (20) and I didn't do so HOT. So no law review. Being an immigrant who has spent only a few years here, I didn't know how important that was (no one in my family having gone to school in the US) and that lack of law review has followed me in all the years since. Don't get me wrong, I loved law school. I just wish I went to a top tier OR didn't have such crushing school loans. Jeez, who knew learning about 'Rule Against Freaking Perpetuities' was supposed to be that expensive??!! BTW, I did immigration for a while. I loved it, the pay was crap. I can't wait to open my own practice so I can make my own money and not have to answer to a boss who treats you like a hired help. Now, well, I work in litigation in an office that... whatever, it pays the bills. Yes yes, I am BITTER!!!
I'm on the fence but with out a doubt, think that law school sucked. It was wayyyy too expensive. I did family law for 6 months and hated it!!! My low pay was actually insulting and my boss was horrible. I now work as a public defender and really like my job! I don't do normal trial work though and do mainly mental health cases- which is great b/c that's exactly what I wanted to do since I have a masters in psychology.
The main gripe with law school is the amount of debt and that 85% of us do not make the insane six figures that we all think we are going to make after graduation.
@bRooklynRocks: I went to a non-top tier school that was insanely expensive. I made law review my last year and honestly, I don't see that it helped me that much. Sure, I put it on my resume, but no employer ever asked me about it or commented on it.
To make matters worse, my law school is known for extremely low GPAs. So we compete against other higher ranked schools wtih a really crappy GPA. Makes me so mad!
@bRooklynRocks: ugh firms and their law review ideas... so stupid! I did go to a top tier law school and I applied for (and got accepted to) a few of my school's law reviews, including the "main" law review and also the ADR law review. Well... I was going for my certificate in dispute resolution and was (still am) interested in ADR, so I went the journal of dispute resolution (which by the way was the top ranked ADR journal in the COUNTRY the years I was on it). The next summer I was interviewing with a firm in DC and the interviewer actually said to me "I see you're on JDR... did you not get onto Main journal?" I said no, I was offered a position but I was more interested in the JDR journal. She said to me "well you know you pretty much committed career suicide by turning down that offer right?" So, so stupid.
I went to law school and graduated right after 9/11. No jobs to be found...so I went on to get an LL.M in Environmental and Health Law. I was in private practice for 2 years and then moved to corporate pharmaceutical law.
I loved going to law school (I am a research and writing geek). I wasn't on law review, I was never really interested in it at the time. I was a member of moot court and I worked for the Mid Atlantic ENvironmental Law Center.
I hated being a lawyer. My company was bought out by Pfizer last year. I was offered a severance package -and I accepted with glee.
Now I am a Holistic Health Coach, Yoga Instructor and working on my 3rd book.
Law school was a waste of my money. I went to please my parents, not for myself. That was my biggest mistake...hindsight.
I went to a good law school, graduated magna cum laude, clerked for two federal judges, and now do litigation at a large law firm. My stock advice is: if you can't go to a top twenty school or can't (realistically) be one of the top five students at a school in a lower tier, don't go. It is SO MUCH DEBT and chances are you won't be very happy practicing law. (Out of ALL the people I know from law school, I know only one person who genuinely likes her job.) Above all, don't attempt to "hide out" in law school. Law school won't solve your problems, it will compound them.
I am currently in law school (4th Tier) and I don't really plan on practicing law. And frankly I have always known that. I plan on getting into government work, or political consulting, and I felt that either a law degree or a masters in public administration were my best bet, and for some reason I picked law school. I felt that it would 1) be a great accomplishment and 2) would give me more options.
While I totally understand why so many people are unhappy in law I do have to question whether we are all just products of our environment. I almost feel like it is a societal expectation to HATE working in law. I am just going to finish up my degree (I graduate in less than 6 months), take the bar, and work on getting a job or fellowship. My #1 goal is to find some happiness in life, and not waste my time regretting something I have already done.
Luckily I will be able to pay off my loans in 3-5 years, thanks to a partial scholarship, and lots of help from my parents, and then if I don't like working in law, I won't do it!
Kudos to all of you lawyers who either have been working in law or to those who realized they preferred sanity above all else! This has been a tough journey, but at least we have made it through!
@chicagowife: I agree completely. I went to a top-three law school, wasn't on law review, and graduated in the middle of my class. I now work at a large law firm, have been doing so for about a year, and plan on staying here for a few more years. I have a ton of debt, but ultimately, it was worth it to now have the alumni network from my school, and have many options career wise. That being said, my advice to most people would be to only go to law school if you get into a top 20 (maybe even 15?) law school, unless you have the means to pay for it or get a hefty scholarship. A lot of people go to law school and think they can graduate in the top of their class. Unfortunately, the numbers just don't work out this way.
For people going to law school straight out of undergrad: don't go unless you are fairly certain you want to be a lawyer. That is what law school will teach you to be.
Recovering lawyer here. Went to school at night because I had to work for a living (we all hated the "day" students). Passed the bar first time. Practiced for a couple of years & quit. HATED it.
Too much debt for a degree that I only sort of use.
@txlawyerbee: "For people going to law school straight out of undergrad: don't go unless you are fairly certain you want to be a lawyer. That is what law school will teach you to be." Okay so I agree with you on the first half (don't go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer), but I'm going to have to disagree with you on the second half "that is what law school will teach you to be."
I don't think law school teaches you how to be a lawyer AT ALL. It teaches you how to research, how to write (somewhat), and how to network. I think for the most part you come out of law school wholly incompetent to be an actual lawyer, which is sad. I wish that there were more practical courses about HOW to actually be a lawyer (how to know what to file and when, and where to file it, how to deal with clients, how to deal with judges, etc). And I think I took advantage of a lot of opportunities such as clinics and trial practice... but IMO "practical" courses should be like 75% of your education and substantive 25% (the law changes so fast you can't rely on anything you learned anyways. Everything outside of crim pro and civ pro kind of seems like a waste of brain space).
I can't vote in the poll because my answer is confusing. I went to law school knowing I did not want to be a "lawyer." I knew that I wanted to live in DC and work in the industry, which for most people would mean a Masters in Public Policy. However, I had been around town enough to know that employers almost ALWAYS hired a lawyer for the types of positions I wanted (positions in domestic policy working on legislation) even when the job description only requested an MPP. There are just so many darn lawyers in this town, why wouldn't an employer hire a better-educated candidate with legal writing skills? So I went to law school. I went to school in DC, interned every semester in my field, and graduated with a so-so GPA but a kick-ass resume. I now work in the exact field I wanted, and use my law degree every day, but I am not a "lawyer" (my job does not require me to be barred and my position does not require a JD). It was MUCH easier to get the job I wanted with a JD, however, so I do not regreat my choice.
The debt and the time I spent in law school? That sucks every day.
I graduated with honors from a decent law school in NJ, was on the primary law journal, and also had my article published in the journal. I enjoyed law school, but it is very different from practice.
Upon graduation, I moved to a different state and clerked for one year at the trial level. Loved it. Clerked for another year at the state appellate level. Loved it.
In law school, I worked part-time for a small firm, and worked as a summer associate at a large law firm. Hated both of those experiences.
After my clerkship ended in August 2010, I went to work for an insurance defense firm. It was intolerable. My last day was Friday. I am now unemployed and traumatized :)
I met my fiance in law school, so I am glad I went. But, I know very few people who work legal jobs that are actually happy. The debt is ridiculous.. even if you only take the $18.5 a year. The pay is AWFUL if you go to a small or even some medium-sized firms. And even with that awful pay you will not be working 40 hours a week.
I was watching "16 and Pregnant" and one of the girls wanted to be a dental hygenist.... her starting salary would have been higher than mine.
So, yeah, I wish I hadn't gone to law school. I would only recommend it if you can get a scholarship, or if you are 100% sure you need a law degree or want to practice law, and maybe even have some practical experience working as a paralegal, etc.
If I knew what I know now, there is no way I would've gone to law school. The debt really traps you... I have no idea how FI and I will ever be able to have children or save up to buy a house. It's depressing.
Ok, that's my rant!
I'm glad I'm not the only one...I finally realized that I don't want to do litigation anymore and phasing out to do only transactional work. But if I don't practice law, what else can I do...I'm at a lost. LOL!
I went to a top 15 law school and actually really enjoyed being in school. I went to work at a large law firm and hated it. I know very few people I went to law school with who actually like being a lawyer. Those that do enjoy it pretty much work in gov't or nonprofit - not at firms. I'm not currently practicing and sort of doubt I'll ever go back to it.
Law school was a terrible decision for me. I know some people are saying it may be okay to go with a substantial scholarship, but I got a huge scholarship, and while having very minimal debt is nice, I'm now underqualified for law jobs and overqualified for non-law jobs. I feel like I'm never going to get a chance at a decent career. I'm a 3L at a top 25 (occasionally top 20...I'm sure it's very obvious where I go...lol), fairly good grades, getting published, again: huge scholarship so very little debt, tons of relevant internships....but zero job prospects. I guess there's still a chance I could get a job (had a DOJ honors interview last week, but clearly that's insanely competitive), but at this point I'm guessing I'll be unemployed. I really thought that going to a fairly good school with a great scholarship would be sufficient. I was very wrong, and I would never advise someone to go to law school.
I also have a good friend at a top 6 school with good grades, and she can't get a job either. I mean, there's obviously still the chance that we will get jobs, but it seems very unlikely at this point. Law school seems like a bad decision for most people, even if you "really want to be a lawyer" (which most pre-law people seem to think even though they have no idea what lawyers really do). Sorry, that's my rant. In sum: I hate law school. :)
Things are a little bit different in Canada. There isn't really a ranking system for law schools. There are obviously certain schools that are more or less difficult to get into, but for the most part firms don't care much if you went to U of T or UBC. Also, after we graduate we have to "article" for a year in addition to passing the bar. Theoretically, articling is how we learn and get assessed on practical legal skills (since law school teaches you diddly squat). It is also an excuse for firms to work you like a slave while paying you peanuts. Thank God our tuition rates are nothing like those of American schools.
I realized very early on in law school that I would be a poor fit for the big firm "lifestyle". So in 2L, while the other students were clawing after the summering OCI's for big firms, I went door-to-door to small firms that specialized in areas of practice I thought would be interesting. I got a summer job at one of them and I genuinely liked it a lot. The firm liked me too and offered me an articling position upon graduation. I happily accepted.
Lucky I did, because it would turn out to be a terrible year for law students to be graduating. It was the first year that the economy really started heading downhill, and many students in my class were still scrambling for articles at the end of 3L. In Canada, if you don't article you don't pass the bar, so your degree will be useless. And if you don't article in the same year as the rest of your class, you'll be stuck competing with next year's class, which means your odds of ever landing a position are pretty well nil.
I went to work happily at first. Then I'm not really sure what happened. I think the novelty wore off and burn-out set in. At my small firm, I still work long hours but I don't have the fat paycheck to console myself with. Every day it gets less and less interesting, and feels more and more like drudgery. Then I feel guilty because law school cost so much money and I should be thankful to have a fairly good job in this economy. Besides, what else could I do if I wasn't a lawyer? So for now, I'm just earning my living until I can plot a worthwhile escape. Sigh.
I recently graduated law school (top 3 school, law review, cum laude) and am finishing up another degree so I don't neatly fall into any of those categories.
Even though I started out thinking I would use my other degree and the law degree would be a background degree. After a total of 8 years and 3 summers doing legal internships, I realize that I actually love practicing law. I love being an advocate and working for social change in one of the ways that I feel is the most effective (even if the results are still far short of where I would like them to be). While I could go the Big Law Firm route, public interest law is so much more interesting and fulfilling and I know I will be happy doing that for at least some time after I graduate. If I stop being happy it will not be because I am a lawyer, but b/c working in public interest can cause anyone to get burnt out--whether you are a lawyer, social worker, teacher, non-profit CEO, etc.
I think people tend to be so unhappy coming out of law school b/c they aren't really going into it (frequently) or coming out of it doing something they really WANT to do. They are trying to make money. Putting in a massive number of hours doing something you don't really enjoy for clients who you may hate or think are morally reprehensible just b/c you make $180,000 (or less!) may not feel as worth it when you are in it as when you are sending out those law school applications.
It is very difficult in life to do what you really want to do and what makes you happy. Even if you find the job that suits you, realistic considerations (like whether you can support a family on the $40,000 salary) get in the way. I don't know that being a lawyer in a big firm -- if that is something that you are not passionate about -- is actually worse than most other relatively unpleasant jobs, but it takes up so much more of your time/life than a regular unpleasant 9-5 and the hype coming into law school is so great that I think the let down is a lot harder.
Moral of the story: Do what makes you happy & don't feel pressured to conform to the BigLaw lifestyle if that is not for you!
Bumping. Law bees who are graduated or graduating soon- what the heck are you doing now!?!? I go to a tier 1 school, and the job market still stinks. Those liars, said the market would be back up our graduating year (this year). Now what?
I got offered a job at the DA office I'm working at- TO WORK FOR FREE! So, still looking, and trying to find alternative avenues.
My answer doesn't really fit into the categories. I don't consider myself a "practicing lawyer," but by the rules of NJ, I am a practicing lawyer.
I went to a tier-2 school (having turned down a top-5 school because of the price) and graduated in the top half of my class. I was on a secondary journal (public policy), I worked as a research assistant for most of law school, and I had an internship in civil commitment defense work for a summer as well as a juvenile delinquency defense clinic. I wanted nothing more than to be a deputy attorney general or public advocate, but I graduated in 2009, right as those jobs disappeared.
I clerked for a superior court judge in family court for a year, which I loved, did doc review for a few months after that, and worked for a solo doing state and federal criminal defense and family law for six months after that before the hours got to be too much and the pay proved too low to pay my bills.
I landed a per diem gig as a residential foreclosure mediator through a friend. Six months later, my boss fought to create a position for me in the office, so I'm now a full time mediator and arbitrator for the state ADR office. By the NJ rules, I'm practicing, but I don't need to keep my license active to do this work (although I do anyway, because it's not that much money and I get my CLE credits through work because I teach negotiation and mediation, plus it's helpful to keep my Esq. for credibility reasons). But I don't provide legal advice, I don't argue cases, I don't litigate.
If I weren't doing this, I don't think I'd still be practicing. I'd probably be court staff of some sort, although I would've gone back to the civil commitment defense work if a job opened up there (I'd still consider it if it were ever offered). I could've gotten into a firm that represents banks and creditors in foreclosure, because I developed a really good working relationship with the head of litigation there through the foreclosure mediation, but I couldn't bring myself to go back to straight litigation, although I was pretty good at it.
The best advice I can offer to those graduating now is take whatever comes, you never know where it'll land you. And keep you contacts up! Put up a LinkedIn profile, stay in touch with law school friends. I'd never be where I am but for a friend from law school who hooked me up. This is not the kind of market where you can afford to say no, unless you really, really think it's a scam or dangerous. Don't focus on the negative of the economy and don't get down on yourself- the more you deride yourself, the worse off you'll be.
I went to a top 3 tier law school. Big in Los Angeles. But not very well known anywhere else. I went into law school bc i had no idea what else to do with an English major (teacher wasn't an option). I had fun in law school. Did average. Never minded my law clerk positions - employment law, public interest, insurance defense. After law school i got extremely lucky and fell into a worker's compensation position. I know work for a big insurance company for in-house counsel. The pay is eh. the benefits are awesome. But you know what - i LOVE LOVE LOVE what i do. I am so happy i'm doing work comp. It's not a glamerous field of law, but it makes me happy. It fits my personality.
I agree with others said. Don't go into law unless you're super duper sure you want to do that. It's not for everyone, and the pay is just not there anymore (unless you want to work ridiculous hours in a top firm...and getting those positions are ridiculously hard).
I went to a tier-3 school in Illinois, and graduated in 2009. I graduated pretty high in my class and was on law review, and it took me about 9 months to find a job. I took and passed the Illinois bar on the first shot, and was admitted in November of 2009.
I substitute taught while I was job hunting, and took a part-time internship at a State's Attorney's Office for free to get some additional experience besides my internship with the Illinois Attorney General's office.
It sucked while I was job hunting, but I kept at it, and taking that internship after I was a licensed attorney really paid off. I got hired as an Assistant State's Attorney in another county, and will have been there two years in March. (Also had to move to Southern Illinois, about 5 hours from my family, but met FI when I moved which was a bonus!)
I'm glad I went to law school, and while I don't make a lot of money, I do have a job I enjoy. I have a great boss, flexible work hours, met a great guy because of relocating, and honestly don't regret suffering through law school. I didn't ever envision myself working for a big firm, and my current job is going to work out really well for the lifestyle I want.
I'm graduating from a top 3 school this May, and I'll be returning to my 2L summer firm (a mid-size firm in a relatively small legal market city) which I love in the fall! I'll be joining the litigation department; I love that my firm is small enough that I haven't been and won't be assigned to just one practice group, rather I get to spend a few years trying things out and finding my groove. Won't be making the $160k bank of my NYC peers, but I also won't be working 100+ hour weeks-- I'm really happy with the way things turned out for me, but yeah, interviewing for the 2L gig seriously sucked, the market's still pretty awful.
I guess only time will tell whether I'm happy with the decision to go to law school; I may be whistling a different tune once I start paying back my whopping loans. I'm interested to hear what the other graduating law students are going to be up to!
I am sometimes glad I went and sometimes wish I would have went to school to teach underwater basket weaving. :) I met my DH in law school so I'm certainly glad for that! I wish I had less debt but that's the nature of law school, and thankfully, DH and I will not be spending the average 10 years paying off debt. I partially agree and partially disagree with @chicagowife: I went to a Tier 3 law school, but I studied my a** off and graduated in the top 10% of my class so it was worth it for me to go even though i didn't go to a top 15 or 20 school. I was on law review, did mock trial and moot court, and a clinic my 3L year. I got three clerkship offers for my 2L summer: one was with a large national law in it's DC office, one was in Dallas at a national firm, one was in a mid-sized Dallas firm. I split between the two Dallas firms, got offers from both, and worked for the mid-sized firm as a litigation associate. I started at 135K, which was less than the other offer, but I had a better quality of life. After I got married, I moved and took a temporary job with a federal magistrate judge and then worked in employment law for a large state university, which I LOVE. Next, I'm clerking for a Bankruptcy judge. My career path has been different from the typical path (who goes to a firm and THEN clerks?!?). I sometimes wish we had less debt, but because we both graduated in the top 10% of our T3 school, we've both had amazing opportunities and are on track to have our debt paid off in less than 5 years from our graduation.
So, if you can either (1) go without debt, (2) go to a top, top, TOP school, or (3) go to a lower school, study literally 12-18 hours a day, and guarantee you'll be top 5-10% plus law review . . . it's probably worth it. It really just depends what you want to do. I know that I can stop in a few years if I want to, work part-time, or get another gov't job.
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Beekeeper
So the "Advice about law school" thread got me thinking... and I was half chucking about the fact that anytime anyone mentions law school on the boards all these bees come out like "don't do it!!!!!!" (myself included). I don't think this has been done so I wanted to do a comprehensive survey about the general job paths of lawyers.
Please vote both for what you're doing now, and for if you're happy about your JD.
I'm kind of curious to see if just those who are unhappy post on the boards, or if the unhappiness is really so wide spread. Discuss!