Weddingbee boards

So I haven't been around weddingbee as long as many of you, but in the time I have been here I have seen more Craigslist hating (from brides and photographers) than I ever expected to see, and I really want to understand it.

I will preface this by saying up front that I use Craigslist to advertise. There! I said it! That shouldn't make me a leper in the industry just as it shouldn't make brides who search there lepers among other brides.

I am a full time professional photographer with a degree in photojournalism, top of the line equipment, a business license, liability insurance, and an unbelievable passion for what I do. I love love love my job. I love my clients, I love the opportunity I get to witness so many beautiful moments. I'm so lucky I get to do this.

Here's what I don't love - "pay to play" advertisement. I resent the idea that I should pay TheKnot.com $1,200+ a year (no exaggeration) the cost of a nice lens I'd like to have instead, to throw my name into a sea of other photographers who are listed based on what they could afford and not on their experience or the quality of their work. I can't tell you how many photographers I see with "Best of The Knot 2011" plastered all over everything they have who deliver absolute crap. We're talking basics here - exposure, composition, equipment quality. I want folks to realize that sometimes when you choose someone listed on TheKnot over someone listed on Craigslist just based on where they advertise you are sometimes buying a trust fund baby with no artistic vision over someone who works really hard, loves what they do, but would rather invest that money into equipment or local advertising. I've talked to so many photographers who have gotten absolutely NO leads from their listing on pay-to-play sites. Why? Because anyone with money can list. There is no quality control or limit on how many photographers they'll take because it's a for-profit business and they don't care who they're listing.

This argument for Craigslist is not an argument against photographers who pay that kind of money for advertising, so please don't misunderstand me. Advertising is a business cost, of course. I pay for advertising in other ways with my money going much farther than it does on pay-to-play online listings. There is a serious stigma surrounding vendors who advertise on Craigslist and that's what I'm after. Yes, you will find lots and lots of absolutely horrible photographers on Craigslist. I find them more entertaining than infuriating though - if a bride chooses someone with hot pink curly font and blurry photos with the "beauty and the beast" soundtrack set to autoplay charging $400 for all day coverage then they're getting what they paid for. I don't feel sorry for them and don't feel that photographer is taking my business because I would not want to work with someone who cares more about the dollar than the image anyway.

This leads me to my argument for Craigslist brides. There is a stigma in the vendor community about Craigslist brides. "Oh they all want everything for nothing," "they're all cheap," "they just don't appreciate or understand my work so I don't advertise there". Yes, of course, I've had people email me wanting full wedding day coverage for $300. I tell them no, don't let it affect my perception of ALL brides searching Craigslist, and move on with my life. Some of my absolute FAVORITE weddings were with people who found me through Craigslist, who paid my rate, didn't haggle, and appreciated the work I put into their wedding. Some of the images from these Craigslist weddings have ended up published, or on cool wedding sites like Style Me Pretty. In my start-up years I booked 30 weddings, 20 of them from Craigslist leads, ALL of them at my full asking price. I am where I am today due in large part to the people I met through Craigslist and the money I invested in equipment and other business expenses instead of pay-to-play advertising.

So, brides, don't write off photographers who advertise on Craigslist. You will see many many websites that will make you laugh out loud, but who doesn't need to laugh? You will find gems too, who love their job and want to be a part of your story. Don't write them off because they didn't pop up when you searched for them on The Knot.

And photographers, don't write off the people who use Craigslist to plan some aspects of their wedding. They don't all want you to work for free. They do respect and love your work. They do have kicka** weddings. And they do refer you like crazy.

TheKnot.com $1,200+ a year only quoted you that much?? We were quoted almost $3500 for the year, I said NO WAY especially since our name starts with a P and there are hundreds of others willing to pay that.

"Best of The Knot 2011" pretty much if you pay there outrageous fee then you get an award. Totally misleading to brides. At least with weddingwire they go off your reviews and allow free listings for vendors. theknot.com is a total scam if you ask me, not a fan at all.

I definitely think you have a valid argument on the Craigslist thing, but I also thing the majority of brides looking and the majority of photog listing are on the lower end of price and quality. Not saying you are and not saying all brides are. I had a very DIY wedding and use CL to find some of my antique decor. I use it all the time to sell my used props and to find new ones. When people say CL photog/bride I think they are just using the term, they are inexpensive/cheap and doesn't cover people like you who are the minority.

@PizzutiStudios: That's so outrageous! I was quoted a bit higher than $1,200, but I know that's the MINIMUM so I used that. I wonder if they're quoting based on area? It's obscene. I hate it for start-up photo business owners who think the key to having a successful wedding business is paying websites like The Knot and paying high end photographers thousands of dollars for workshops to learn how to take photos with perfect models in perfect lighting situations and all the time in the world. It takes practice, dedication, and lots of learning from mistakes to get there. It doesn't have to take money you could be investing in improving the quality of your images.

I agree with you, there are really bad photogs and really cheap brides on craigslist. My argument is really for those who write off Craigslist completely without ever taking an afternoon to look at the photographers who post there, and for photographers who look down on those who advertise there or think that brides who look there are all cheap and demanding.

I also found our photographer on Craigslist and it worked out great.  Unfortunately, it's true that I had to wade through a lot of dreck to find someong with good style and technique, but it was worth it! 

@MrsPinkBONBON: That's great! Honestly a photographer who isn't spending $5,000 a year on aimless online marketing doesn't have the same overhead as a photographer who does, so you do find some reasonably priced, talented photographers advertising places like Craigslist. I will agree with Cola and historienne that there are a lot of treacherous websites to wade through, but I think it's worth a look for all brides (and grooms!)

@Lilubird: The point is that not all photographers who pay big money to advertise know what they're doing, and sites like The Knot mislead brides with their "Best of" "awards" and featuring photographers who pay more. It legitimizes photographers who deliver inferior work. It's profit based. I am all for some of the professional photography associations (WPA, WPJA). You pay for membership with those organizations but you have to meet a standard to be accepted. That's how it should be. In the meantime, I will continue to advertise for free on Craigslist and invest my money in equipment and advertising with standards. =)

@Lilubird: I think what I'm trying to get across is that some photographers have respect for their work enough to not pay thousands of dollars to be mass-advertised next to others who have no talent but all the money in the world to blow. My ads on Craigslist are eye-catching and beautifully designed, I just choose not to pay facebook by the click for thumbnail advertising that isn't directed to anyone. What is healthy about spending thousands of dollars for a site like The Knot when they don't screen the photographers they list for talent, experience, or anything else? And what is more professional about facebook than Craigslist, really? haha.

Again, the point was to try to get people to rethink the websites they trust for quality vendors. I don't think you should trust any vendor websites based solely on profit (like The Knot). Their interest is not in providing you the best options because there are no repercussions for them if someone chooses a photographer listed there and they turn out to be a nightmare. Money is their bottom line.

@LBPhotography: I shoot 30 weddings a year with trust fund colleagues on The Knot shooting 7-15 at best. Let's not kid ourselves and say that The Knot requires a 6 month commitment because they are commited to providing only the most dedicated and talented photographers to brides across the country. They have that because it is 6 months of money in their pocket, period. Do you not ever feel weird about paying that much to a website with no standards for the photographers they list? Paying that kind of money to throw your hat into a sea of names with no standards seems like a waste, and photographers who believe that listings on sites like The Knot in some way legitimize their business drive me crazy. Like I said before, I am all for paying professional photography associations (WPJA, for example) because they have standards and there is a give and take relationship, but The Knot is take take take. Feels kind of like the Walmart of wedding planning - they'll put anything on the shelf for the right price.

@LBPhotography: I get the sense that you think The Knot isn't a sketchy place because it costs a lot of money. I think a place that gives "awards" to photographers who pay them is pretty sketchy, especially when I see the quality coming from some of the folks with said "awards".

As @pinkb said, I think The Knot is deceptive with their lists when to search for vendors you click a link titled "Best Vendors". Also, unlike other profit-based advertising websites, they don't make it clear to consumers that vendors listed on the site are only listed because they bought the listing, not because they're really the best. Some are fantastic, of course, but many are not.

I think your comments about "not being caught dead" on craigslist and about vendors who advertise on Craigslist being "sketchy" says a lot about you. I see lots of hilariously bad photography on Craigslist, but a lot of great, experienced photographers who use it as a supplemental advertising tool as well. The point of the post was to not discount vendors OR brides who deal with Craigslist, but it seems you're already set on that. Like I said before, we have just about the exact same qualifications, experience, and price point and I happily use Craigslist to supplement paid advertising. I put the $2,000 I saved not using The Knot last year towards a dreamy 85mm 1.2, and I'm very happy about that decision. =)