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Any Liberal Feminist Brides Out There?

posted 2 years ago in Secular
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    Buzzing bee
    monitajb    July 17, 2010   Sacramento

    Hey Bees,

    Boy, the wedding world is so not like the rest of my life, and sometimes it really gets to me. Just thought I would start a place to vent for those of us who feel like fish out of water while planning our weddings.

    Me first!

    My biggest pet peave is probably people saying this is my day, that I should feel like a princess. I honestly thought I was having a wedding to another person, not a coronation. I'm an attorney, which is a title that depends on no man, thank you, and this day is just one of the many awesome things I have and will do, not the culmination of my whole life's dream.

    WTF! Grrr.

    Feel better already. Tongue out That felt really good to write.

     
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    sarahsd    August 14, 2010   San Diego

    I don't have any pet peeves, but I totally understand  your point...we are really focusing on making this day about "us."  Whenever I say "my" wedding I feel bad because if he doesn't feel like it's "his" too, then we're starting out on the wrong foot.  But I'm sure the princesses of the world also hope for their husband to be happy too, they just may hope with a tiara on their head : ).

     

     

     
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    eloping    May 23, 2010  

    i dont like lables... where i dont get the asking permission or daddy giving me away stuff i go totally gah gahhh over shoes and pretty sparkly things so everyones different

     

     
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    Buzzing bee
    monitajb    July 17, 2010   Sacramento

    Ugh, just in case I upset anyone, the important part of the thread is SHOULD. If YOU actually feel this, awesome! I don't like being told how to feel, thats all!

     
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    LittlestBirds    July 24, 2010   Seattle, WA

    I was pretty stunned, when I got into the wedding world, to discover that prevailing opinion is still in favor of having a bride's face covered with a veil, having a bride's father give her away to the groom, and even having the groom ask the bride's parents' permission before proposing. I suppose I figured there were a few people who would still be into these practices, but it hadn't occurred to me that most people wouldn't find them appalling. I mean, these aren't obscure traditions with little modern relation to their original, paternalistic intentions; they are pretty straight-forward acts of labeling a woman as property. After much stress and arguing with my mother, I've given in on having my dad walk me down the aisle, though I am insisting that both my parents give me away and that both of FI's parents give him away as well. I'm wearing a veil, but only down my back, not over my face for my father to "reveal" me to my husband.

    I won on the asking my parents' permission issue, though. If FI had done that, I would have been livid and crushed, and I let him know that in no uncertain terms. He was nervous about it until the moment we told them, thinking they'd be offended that he hadn't asked. (They weren't. They were too busy being thrilled to even think of it.)

    PS I am taking FI's last name, in the interest of family unity, but he's taking my last name as his middle name. :)

     
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    teaadntoast    04/23/2010   New York, NY

    My FI and I are rejiggering bits and pieces of our otherwise traditional wedding ceremony to make it seem a bit less... chattle-y.

     
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    Sugar bee
    teaadntoast    04/23/2010   New York, NY

    @LittlestBirds - We're doing that, too!

     
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    monitajb    July 17, 2010   Sacramento

    Chattle-y. Love it.

    The dad walking me down the aisle was really tough for me. I LOVE my dad, totally daddy's girl, we are super close. But "giving me away" is creepy. I'm thinking that I will just have each of the parents escorted down the aisle, and dad will just be my escort. FI doesn't want to walk because he is mildly disabled, and walks a little like an ape (a little hunched over, so with his disproportionately long arms...eek!)

     

     
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    moneypenny02    August 8, 2010   Los Angeles

    I would definitely be on the side of liberal feminist--fortunately, so is my fiance!

    I do enjoy "doing gender" on occasion (especially if it relates to shoes!!) so there are a decent number of things that I enjoy about the wedding planning process.  However, when I went into it, I was really going at it in terms of what I/we like and what would be important for us--rather than filling in the blanks of the traditional wedding ceremony--so I think that has made things much easier than it would have been if I had gone into things feeling as though I HAD to do things a certain way. (Easier for ME at least--for my mother.....not so much!)  

    I will also say that the community on WB is also much MUCH friendlier than the folks over at theknot and much more open to doing things differently, so I feel much less out of place here than I did over there with people always posting about how you just CAN'T do this, and SHAN'T do that and how everything that was a little bit out of the norm was "tacky" for some totally arbitrary or unarticulated reason.

    @LittlestBirds--I am doing the absolute same w/ my FI taking my name as his middle and me taking his so that we will all have the same "family name" without the (future) kids having to go through the whole hyphenation thing.

     
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    Future Mrs. Martin    August 21, 2010   London Ontario Canada

    I think in a lot of cases "asking permission" has turned into "letting the family know that he was going to propose and getting their blessing".

    I have lived with my FI for 4 years and dated him for 6 OBVIOUSLY he didn't need my dad's PERMISSION to be with me but I still thought it was super sweet that my FI took my parents out to lunch and let them know he was proposing.

    The one thing that bothers me is that traditionally the bride and groom get introduced as the Mr. and Mrs. His First Name His Last Name. Like I am his property or something!

     
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    monitajb    July 17, 2010   Sacramento

    I want to second the WB as the easiest place to discuss non-traditional wedding plans. Some thing NWR people say still floor me, but the openness about weddings is awesomely helpful.

     
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    futuremrsgideon    September 15, 2010  

    These are all the reasons why I'm eloping! Nobody will be there to give me away, I'm wearing whatever I want to, and the only person I'll have to be worried about on our wedding day will be my fiance. I, too, feel weird talking about "my" wedding. I've just started saying "when we get married..." so I don't feel like I'm shutting my fiance out. Instead of my fiance asking my dad for permission to marry me, we both sat down with my parents and talked about our intention of getting engaged. It didn't feel as possessive to me, but I felt like I still got to be respectful of my parents' feelings about a life-changing decision and potentially address any concerns they might have had. 

     
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    eloping    May 23, 2010  

    i never ever get the asking for permission bit - i always wonder if the then boyfriend asked daddy for his blessing to have sex with his daughter before they did the deed and if no, then asking permission to ask her to marry him just seems moot to me

     

     
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    Buzzing bee
    MissHelen    November 20, 2010   California

    Yeah, I hear you.
    FI and I don't really think about gender roles really, which totally works for us since neither of us were raised to believe something is a man's or woman's task. My entire life I've felt like I'll take what I want from the "traditional" gender roles, and leave the rest where it is. I think of myself as (dare I say it?) a person, a human being, and a woman, and woe be to the person/entity who tells me I have to do something or must not to something for any reason, including my gender.
    Anyhoo, FI is taking my last name as his, and my Dad will be escorting me down the aisle. When the officiant asks "who gives this woman to this man?" my Dad's line will be "With our blessing, she gives herself" or something to that effect. I will be wearing a birdcage veil though, because I think they're just the coolest things EVER.

     
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    monitajb    July 17, 2010   Sacramento

    Yes to birdcage veils = awesome (IMO)

     
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    futuremrsgideon    September 15, 2010  

    No kidding. A red birdcage veil from Etsy is the only thing I've purchased so far for my wedding. And i agree with the asking permission thing. As the black sheep of my family, I'm completely used to doing my own thing and would have skipped the step. The only reason we did what we did was because my future in-laws feared that it would ruin my fiance's relationship with my parents, which is what happened in their case. I didn't think it would matter, but we caved because I thought his parents were really, truly worried. 

     
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    Arachna       nyc

    Hear hear!  My pet peaves are child care assumptions and taking the man's last name (not because I want everyone to keep their own names, I just want more company on this side of things!). 

     
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    moneypenny02    August 8, 2010   Los Angeles

    @ Monitajb - Love the birdcage veils.  I don't even think of it as a "veil" or serving any particular purpose except to produce awesomeness.

     

    @MissHelen - I love the "With our blessing, she gives herself"  That is very nice, and I think impactful without being over the top.  My mother will be officiating and my uncle will be walking me down the aisle, so we will probably just skip that part, but if we had it, I would totally steal your line!

     

    I forgot to add--about the name thing--that when I told my friends that my FI would be taking my name, they LAUGHED!  And these are definitely women (all with advanced degrees, mind you!) that I would not have thought would respond that way.  So it's really surprising how much people expect you to conform & how much they don't really care about voicing opinions about something being wrong b/c its "different" (even if they can't articulate a good reason as to WHY its wrong).

     
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    October2010Bride    October 23, 2010   San Francisco, CA, Getting Married in Pleasanton, CA

    I would call myself a liberal feminist, but my fiance (a man) is one too!  I am also a lawyer, and resent being told that the wedding day is going to be the best day of my life.  I'm pretty sure the day I passed the California State Bar was the best day of my life so far, because it's something I did on my own and had to work so hard and so long to achieve.  The wedding will be awesome, but the "best day of my life"?  Please.    

     
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    azula    February 27, 2010  

    There's a bunch of traditional things that we're not doing. I'm not taking fiance's last name, though this one is less about my feminism and more about the fact that in the culture where I'm from, no one ever changes their last name upon marriage (Edited to add -- However, I think that even if I had been raised in the US culture of women taking their husband's last name, I wouldn't do it because frankly, I just love my name the way it is. I have a perfectly fine name already, I don't need a new one!). Fiance didn't ask my parents for permission to marry me, and I'm glad he didn't. Both my parents are walking me down the aisle but I am not being "given away". The officiant will ask both sets of parents for their blessing of our union, not in a religious sense (our wedding is entirely non-religious) but more in a support kind of way. At first I wasn't sure if I'd wear a veil, but then I saw one in a bridal store that I liked so I bought it. It's teeny tiny, coming down to probably just below my shoulders, and it most certainly does not cover my face. We also won't be introduced as Mr & Mrs. And there will be no throwing of the bouquet/garter, eek. I'm not even going to wear a garter!

     
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    monitajb    July 17, 2010   Sacramento

    @ October2010Bride

    YES on bar passage! I just hope I comport myself with greater dignity. Puking in the sink of a Chicago Fire is not how I envision the day....Embarassed

     
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    eloping    May 23, 2010  

    @moneypenny - i havent changed my name but i will say if my hubby told me he wanted to change his surname to mine i would give him a "what the" look and take his man card off him.  everyone will view this to their own way but i wouldnt laugh at you - thats just rude

     

     
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    spaniel    March 2010   Los Angeles, CA

    We'd have to define liberal feminist for me to answer that one. :) I'm a liberal, and I'm a feminist, but I'm not sure if I'm liberal on the spectrum of feminists!

     
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    October2010Bride    October 23, 2010   San Francisco, CA, Getting Married in Pleasanton, CA

    @monitajb - LOL, agreed.  Right there with you.  The wedding will (hopefully) involve me celebrating in a much more tasteful manner than I did post-bar results!!!  It was still a really fun and crazy night though.  Wouldn't trade it for anything!

     
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    monitajb    July 17, 2010   Sacramento

    LOL w/ spaniel.

    True, lets just put it at feminist and liberal...for the wedding world, which is a low standard of liberal and feminist.

    No one needs to be able to quote Our Bodies Ourselves or attend Michigan Womyn's Music Festival to post. Though rock out and commence awesome if you qualify for either.

     
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    Miss Yap    02/20/10   Dallas

    I changed my name to signify a challenge and because the SO was insistent. So he gets to follow me around and fill out all my paperwork!

    I really enjoy the drop veil but just for looks

    My SO asked my dad for his blessing with my blessing because dad is old school.

    But the words "she comes of her own accord with the blessings of her mother and me" will be said at the wedding. :)

     
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    betagrl    8/21/2010   Los Angeles, CA

    Me!! I don't even really want a wedding, but my fiance does. I so don't want to spend the money when we should be saving it for a house, but this means a lot to him.

    I'm not wearing a veil or taking his last name. I'm not even very happy about wearing a long white-ish dress, but got one anyway. I'm having my dad walk me down the aisle, but only because it will break his heart if I don't ask him. Otherwise, I don't like the symbolism of it. I don't like most wedding symbolism, to be honest.

    We really haven't figured out what we will be doing for the ceremony, but we are both atheists so it will not be religious. Fiance's actor brother will be marrying us and we will be playing non-traditional music.

    I'm actually terrified of the actual wedding day. I've only thrown myself one party and I was a nervous wreck the whole time. I really don't enjoy being the center of attention so I have to figure out how I'm going to relax.

     
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    monitajb    July 17, 2010   Sacramento

    "Signify a challenge": do explain! That sounds interesting.

     
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    jduck84    August 2010   Minneapolis, MN

    Yeah, I'd say I qualify as a liberal feminist. Did anyone hear about the crap Jessica Valenti (founder of feministing) got when she was married and featured in the NY Times celebrations (wedding) section?

     
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    spaniel    March 2010   Los Angeles, CA

    @Miss Yap: I like that. :)

    I'm actually not thinking of my father as "giving me away"... he's "escorting" me down the aisle, which is symbolic of leaving the family home to create my own. Nevermind that I've been doing that on my own for 10 years. :)

     
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    mspaisley    January 1, 2000  

    I'm also getting sick of things like being told how perfect my wedding must be, how it's "all about you" and the gender stereotypes underlying such comments.

     

    Liberal feminism....we should define. "Liberal feminism" is described in academia as being one of the more problematic of feminist theories. It's interesting. You'd think you'd wanna be all down with the liberal feminism, but then you spend 4 years studying feminist theories (I did) and realize that's not the case. Hehe.

     

    edit: I missed the comment above. I think I'm on the same page as y'all now in regard to liberal feminism and the working definition we've got going on here :) Also, I want to add that while my dad is walking me down the aisle, he's not going to give me away, he's just walking me down the grassy hill aisle to help me from falling and for moral support, and we've written our own ceremony with vows that omit the "obey" stuff.

     
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    irishcolleen143    August 7, 2010   Miami, FL

    Let me start by saying that I do consider myself a feminist.  My family is very liberal, and my parents raised me to be a confident, independent person.  I am a doctor, and an Emergency Physician at that -- not something you can do if you are a reticent wall flower!

    That said, I am "guilty" of many of the perceived archaic/anti-feminist traditions that are mentioned above.  I will be wearing a veil over my face -- simply because I think it's pretty, not because I am an object to be "revealed".  I will be having my parents walk me down the aisle simply because I feel like they have contributed so much to the woman that I have become and I would like them to be at my side when I get married!  And yes, my fiance did write to my parents before he asked me to marry him -- not because he was conducting a business transaction, but because he wanted to honor the fact that my parents and I are extraordinarily close. 

    I will be keeping my last name, though. :-)

     
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    Miss Yap    02/20/10   Dallas

    lol. That was suppose to be change.

    But a Freudian slip I guess. All my friends are liberal feminist. Taking his name was taken as "what are you doing?" so I did it. To compromise with my SO and to show some that I don't lose my identity with changing my name. I am still a liberal. Still a feminist. I hate that he doesn't have to change his name. So he can do all the dirty work. :)

     
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    LittlestBirds    July 24, 2010   Seattle, WA

    @FutureMrsMartin "The one thing that bothers me is that traditionally the bride and groom get introduced as the Mr. and Mrs. His First Name His Last Name. Like I am his property or something!"

    Yes, I forgot to mention that one! I informed my mom over Christmas, after she handed me a list of etiquette rules on how to address envelopes for different people, that I will not be addressing envelopes to "Mr. and Mrs. John Doe." I'm doing "Mr. and Mrs. John and Jane Doe." She looked like I had told her we were eloping.

    I am definitely going to tell our pastor and our DJ a million times to drill in the point that I do not want us to be introduced as Mr. and Mrs. John Doe at our wedding! I'm not giving up my first name!

    Amusingly enough, my mother just called in the last five minutes and she started out saying "I hesitate to even begin saying anything that contains the word 'tradition' in regards to your wedding, but..." Oh for crying out loud, it's not like I'm getting married in a hot pink dress. Our wedding is actually going to be very traditional in almost every way.

    @teaadntoast @moneypenny Cool, I think it's such a neat idea! Maybe it will catch on.

     
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    azula    February 27, 2010  

    @jduck84 -- Oh, I remember that. Some people were acting as if she's not really a feminist if she's getting married, and others were saying her husband is an emasculated p***y for marrying a "man-hating feminazi", ugh.

     
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    spaniel    March 2010   Los Angeles, CA

    lol! I was going to have Mr. S do all the dirty work... instead, I got him to change his name, too. ;)

     
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    hotcocoa      

    I'd be happy to claim the liberal feminist label, though I'm probably on the far left of the spectrum.  I used to identify politically as queer, but I got tired of explaining how queer doesn't just mean gay or lesbian, but is a broader label for anti-normative identities.

    On a different note, love how many lawyer bees we have here!  We should found a law firm.

     
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    spaniel    March 2010   Los Angeles, CA

    @hotcocoa: I can totally imagine how that would be a difficult point to regularly get across to people!

     
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    LittlestBirds    July 24, 2010   Seattle, WA

    I feel like I should make a list of all the ways that my wedding really is very traditional compared to most weddings today so that my mother can see what I mean when I say I'm not being some kind of rebel here. We're using classical music at the ceremony (not a hip-hop song that everyone club-dances down the aisle to), the groomsmen will be wearing tuxes and NOT sunglasses or chucks on their feet, my shoes will be white, our cake will be an actual cake instead of a cupcake tree, there will be no candy buffet or chocolate fountain, my dress is floor-length and ivory and has a train, oh and did I mention it will be a religious ceremony with a Christian pastor, but there will be alcohol served... Honestly I feel like depending on which generation I'm speaking with, I feel like I'm taking a strange stand in one direction or the other. Sorry, I suppose that was a vent! I'm done now.

     
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    moneypenny02    August 8, 2010   Los Angeles

    @eloping - I told you he was a liberal feminist!  

    I really, really love my name & it's really cute (I've actually had someone that worked in the financial aid department at my school that they were looking forward to meeting me b/c my name!) so in changing it, two things were really important to me: 1) That it not just be me changing my name, like I was becoming part of him, but us putting our names TOGETHER to show us becoming one new family, and 2) Everyone in our family having the same last name (I had a different last name from all the rest of my family & I really hated it).  So I thought this was a good way to do all of the above.

    In terms of "liberal feminism" I consider myself a true LIBERAL feminist b/c I don't believe in reifying gender identities or believing that there is any real way to be a "woman."  A woman in a long white dress, cathedral length veil, with parents giving her away can be equally a feminist as the woman who gets married in vegas in cowboy boots--as long as she is doing what SHE wants to do and not feeling as though she is conforming to others' expectations of how she needs to "do" her gender (either through conformance or non-conformance).  

    I also have a problem with traditional feminism b/c it tends to be quite exclusionary of different racial/ethnic/religious experiences of women and how "freedom" for some women can actually be a symbol of long-term oppression for another (with regards to work for instance)....but that's a MUCH different post!!! 

     
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