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Over the months, I've read about creative ways people are incorporating marriage equality sentiments in their ceremony/wedding. While the topic is HIGHLY controversial subject among my circle, I'm starting to feel like a big hypocrite when it comes to getting married.
I feel very strongly about marriage equality and the right for everyone to marry. I felt that way prior to being engaged and even stronger after experiencing the transition. I can only imagine how much more after being married.
Has anyone else felt guilty about being able to be married while their other friends/people in general are not able to? It leaves me with a sick feeling in my stomach, honestly....
Yes, it makes me feel really guilty when I stop to think about it. It's hard to be excited about wedding planning sometimes when I consider how unfair it is that some of my friends in serious relationships can't plan for a (legally recognized) marriage the way I can just because government tells them so.
In the end, we decided making a statement for equal rights for people of all sexualities during our ceremony and the White Knots are what is right for us. But the thought has certainly crossed my mind before.
I agree, I feel really guilty about getting married when my oldest friend, who I've known for 20+ years, can't marry his partner. It's devastating.
I posted about it here, and now that I've learned more about the White Knot campaign, I think we're going to do that as well.
It makes me feel TERRIBLE!!! I have a number of gay/lesbian friends who will most def. be there on our wedding day and like good friends always do - they're always asking how wedding plans are coming. I know they're excited for me and I love them for it - but I feel so guilty talking about florists & votive candles when I know the stubborn laws they're facing.
Since we're having a Catholic mass there's no way we can incorporate something into the languge of the mass but we plan on mentioning something in the programs for the ceremony.
Yes, I feel guilty about it, and FH and I (after our state voted down gay marriage), seriously discussed not getting married until there is full marriage equality.
I have many gay friends (and some relatives), and discussed my feelings with them, and all that I spoke to expressed to us that they didn’t think we should forgo our marriage, and after talking with them, I agree. You not getting married won’t have as much impact as other activities like becoming politically involved, fundraising, campaigning activities, donating $/time, etc will.
Instead of favors, we are donating to EqualityMaine (our local, pro-marriage equality group). This doesn’t really make me feel totally better, because I still feel like a hypocrite….I don’t think there is any easy answer.
I can imagine how devastating and conflicting that may feel. Fortunately Canada has marriage equity, hopefully the US will follow suite soon!
Yes, I think it is awful. I think marriage equity is the way to go!
I think it's really sad, but I'm not going to give up my own rights to make a point. Every gay person I'd known has said that we straight people shouldn't not get married just because they can't. If marriage makes us happy, they want us to do it and be there when they can finally some day, too. If that makes sense.
I'm with Future Mrs. Martin, I celebrated with my friends SO HARD when marriage equality came to England. Although in Scotland it's still not law we're slowly getting there. I can't imagine what it must feel like :(
I am deeply sad that not all of my loved ones can get married, but I don't feel hypocritical. I believe marriage is important, and all loving pairs should be able to take part. Not getting married in protest doesn't forward that position, and one more pro-equality pair getting legally hitched doesn't hurt the cause. You don't beed to feel like a hyprocrite.
I have always been a supporter of marriage equality but I have not considered not getting married. I can say that since getting engaged, I have become even more aware of how unfair it is that not everyone is allowed to get married. Everyone should be able to experience this. I, too, would like to incorporate some sort of marriage equality sentiment at my wedding or reception. I am getting married in a Presbyterian church, so I am not sure that I can do it there, but I was thinking about incorporating it at the reception. The only thing is, as progressive as my fiance and I and our wedding party are, the wedding is in Oklahoma City. Many of the guests are from the area and, not unexpectedly, very conservative. I want to tell them all how important this is to us, while not upsetting guests. Any ideas?
@Miss Olive: I went to a wedding where, on the back of the table number cards (which were little tent cards), they printed a quote from the Massachusetts Supreme Court case that legalized gay marriage (pasted below). It's very neutrally written, but definitely holds the case that you belief that everyone should be able to get married.. and probably won't offend conservative guests. It could also be printed on a program.
FROM GOODRIDGE V DEPT OF HEALTH (Mass. 2003): Marriage is a vital social institution. The exclusive commitment of two individuals to each other nurtures love and mutual support; it brings stability to our society. For those who choose to marry, and for their children, marriage provides an abundance of legal, financial, and social benefits. In return it imposes weighty legal, financial, and social obligations....Without question, civil marriage enhances the "welfare of the community." It is a "social institution of the highest importance." It is central to the way the Commonwealth identifies individuals, provides for the orderly distribution of property, ensures that children and adults are cared for and supported whenever possible from private rather than public funds, and tracks important epidemiological and demographic data....Marriage also bestows enormous private and social advantages on those who choose to marry. Civil marriage is at once a deeply personal commitment to another human being and a highly public celebration of the ideals of mutuality, companionship, intimacy, fidelity, and family.... Because it fulfills yearnings for security, safe haven, and connection that express our common humanity, civil marriage is an esteemed institution, and the decision whether and whom to marry is among life's momentous acts of self-definition....It is undoubtedly for these concrete reasons, as well as for its intimately personal significance, that civil marriage has long been termed a "civil right."
I, too, feel extrememly strongly about Marriage Equality. We plan to include a note in our program or in the ceremony about it. I wouldn't mind having a "commitment ceremony" and not being married legally until everyone can, but I need health insurance...
I don't feel like a hypocrite, but I do feel sad. Now that I'm actually getting married, I appreciate what's being denied to my friends in a much more visceral way, and that can be difficult.
What makes me feel better is doing something proactive, whether it's in my personal or political life, to further marriage equality. Even if it's just something small.
I feel the same way. It makes me very sad that I am able to have civil rights that others are not allowed. In some ways I feel pretty guilty about it.
Nope it doesn't bother me one bit. As I don't believe in the rights of everyone to marry. It's of my belief that marriage belongs to men and women that is ONE man and ONE woman. If you're not following that, then you are indeed sinning. Do I have gay friends? Yea. Do they want to get married? Nope (I've asked). If you're wondering my closest homosexual friend will be invited with his boyfriend to our wedding. All of my non-married friends regardless of sexual prefernce will be invited along with a +1.
I'm a huge advocate for marriage equality, and it makes me incredibly sad that some of my friends can't get married or have their marriages recognized in other states. (I'm from MA, so my friends are able to get married there.) I will still get married, but I also won't stop advocating for marriage equality.
I hate the sense of entitlement that people against same sex marriage have. It's absolutely none of anyone else's concern if a same sex couple wants to get married and they should be able to in any state in America. You aren't better than someone else because you are a woman and decided to marry a man. I do think about it, and feel guilty about it...especially since my FI has a very close aunt that is a lesbian and has been in a very committed and wonderful relationship for over twenty years.
@Miss Britt - I agree. I am a christian and I do believe that being gay is a sin. HOWEVER, I also believe a lot of things that I do on a daily basis are sins. Who am I to judge someone else for their life choices? Not my job. My job is to be accepting of everyone. No matter what. End of story. I don't think it's my place to tell someone they can't get married - I'm not one to force my beliefs on others.
Being from Canada, I don't feel guilty per se about getting married in Canada because thankfully we all have the right to marry regardless of the gender of our partner. However, even if I lived in the US, I would not decide not to get married. I think, if a person lives in a more conservative area, that your marriage can be a 'teachable moment' for guests at your wedding by including the quote one poster suggested or the white knot campaign etc.
I should also say that I live in Korea where not only is it pretty much not acceptable to be out, but same sex marriage is a long long long long long way away. Most of my friends' partners would experience extreme cultural/workplace discrimination if they were to come out, and they would have absolutely no legal backing if they did face discrimination. I think it would cause my LGBTQ friends a great deal of grief if they were to come to my Korean wedding and hear/see open support for same sex marriage, and I also think that most of my guests would be confused about the message (and/or say I was a cultural imperalist pushing my 'Western' values onto them). So, the best I can do for the Korean wedding is to give my LGBTQ friends a +1, and make them and their partners feel safe and welcome at our ceremony.
@Miss Britt, I agree completely.
@amanda.lynn, I think that's a great outlook to have. I try not to judge other people for their beliefs, but when they try to force their beliefs on others, I have a problem with that.
@amanda.lynn - That's a great way to put it!
I try to put myself in other people's shoes, but I cannot, for the life of me, understand why ANYONE would be against gay marriage. If it doesn't affect you, why deny people the right to marry? WHO CARES?
We haven't considered not getting married as a statement for marriage equality, but we have chosen to do an informal marriage (also known as, common law marriage). Thankfully, these are still legal in Texas, and this is our way to at least partially fight the erroneous belief that government should be so involved in marriage and in deciding who is "eligible" for marriage.
We are considering incorporating the White Knots or a short printed statement to promote equality.
It seems like the VAST majority of the bees are pro-gay marriage. I think it's actually really interesting that the opinions here are so skewed towards one side when in real life, marriage equality is a super-controversial issue and people's opinions are more evenly split.
I agree it's not my place to judge anyone so I try to avoid doing so. But for me and my FI personally, it would be a bit extreme to consider not getting married because not everyone can.
@GirlWithARing - I'm taking an LGBTQ Psych class right now, and we discussed two explanations for that (well, not that specifically of course, but the growing trend towards acceptance.) The first thought is that we have a typically younger demographic on WB. The nation is split pretty 50/50, but a lot of that is the older generation. So I'm guessing that a majority of bees are probably pro gay-marriage as that is how the Zeitgeist is shifting, but probably not as big of a number as in this thread.
The other possibility is that the bees who don't support gay marriage are just choosing not to comment. I think we're all respectful for the most part, but it is certainly a hot button issue that most of us feel very strongly about and tempers tend to flare. So those who are anti gay marriage just may not feel comfortable posting.
@ lilyfaith - That makes a lot of sense. I was thinking the second explanation probably accounted for a lot of the disparity. Maybe it's just me, but I find it a bit ironic that we advocate acceptance of everyone so strongly, but make it uncomfortable for people with differing opinions from ours to express those opinions. If I strongly opposed gay marriage, I would be really upset by statements like "How could anyone possibly be against gay marriage?"
I was also going to comment how nice it was everyone here is so open minded about gay marriage. I am definitley a supporter of it, but I can see where some people are hesitant and I'm not talking from a religious stand point- more like ignorance. Where I grew up if a kid had two father's I would worry about the harassment that child would suffer in school- and many of the teachers turn their heads. However, the sooner the United States legalizes gay marriage the sooner people can start adjusting and accepting.
I don't feel bad about being married, but I do feel like a hypocrite at times. I feel like we're moving towards marriage equality though which makes me feel better.
I've just been reading these posts, and I do find it interesting that if the overwhelming sentiment is not for gay marriage, then those that feel that way are considered ignorant or "pushing their beliefs on others". Doesn't being open minded work both ways?
@amanda.lynn - exactly what i would say!
@lilyfaith - im thinking you are dead on with assessment - im leaning towards the second explanation. everyone knows this is a hot topic...
@Layla - interesting point. I think that it's hard to distinguish when a topic is more of a debate (in which both sides should be presented and respected) and when it's geared specifically towards people who believe a certain philosophy. For example, I highly disagree with a lot of religious posts because I'm not religious myself, but it doesn't really offend me when they're contained within a specific topic as long as they're not obviously disrespectful. I think this post is kind of the same way - the original premise was aimed towards people who are already pro gay marriage, so I don't think we're being close-minded to discuss it.
That's not to say that someone with a differing opinion should be disrespected, of course. I just think that a thread saying "do you believe gay marriage should be legal?" would be much more subject to open-minded terms.
@ lilyfaith: I think you are totally right, I bite my tongue over things I see in more conservative oriented threads. I read them out of curiosity, but it isn't as if the question is "should I do this conservative practice", it is "let's talk about out conservative practice."
@ Laybella: I understand your point, and I prefer to chose my words more kindly. At the same time, though, no one is advocating for the marriages of anti-equality people to be dissolved, or their children taken away. These are the stakes that marriage equality advocates are fighting for. Having spent the last year and a half in California watching my two best friends stuggle and fight in the face of "family values" as they raise their own child makes it very hard to be openminded. This fight is not abstract for me. The fight is called Sarah and Elizabeth and baby Katie in my world.
I believe the concept of "one man one woman" is based mostly on religious context. People who feel this way tend to feel this way simply because of their religion. At least based on who I"ve talked to. They often comment "it's a sin" but really...why do they care if others are sinning (in their own eyes?) I guess? That being said, there is no official religion of America and as such, America should be America and allow all to marry. I can set my religious beliefs aside for this one but I have met few people who can do this with a guilt-free conscience.
But, as a person, in general, I feel guilty when I have "privileges" not allowed to others. Like when I"m driving by in my warm car and I pass a homeless person and their child on the street. I feel guilty? Yes! I do! Not all of them are there because they are druggies or whatever. But do I get out of my car? No. This is sort of the smae thing to me--feeling a little bad that somebody else can't have the "good things" we have in life. Particularly, for me, the things I didn't necessarily work hard for (like education...if you want one, go get one! no excuses!), but more so things that just come to me because it's expected. Does that make sense? Trying to phrase things correctly first thing in the morning isn't always so successful
Kudos to you Amanda.Lynn!
I think that is the TRUE example of christianity.
I do happen to believe in Gay Marriage - I just don't see anything wrong with it. And frankly, I don't understand why others care what other people choose...it's not hurting ANYONE!!!!! I just don't get it!
Regarding my own wedding, I don't feel guilty about being able to marry. I do feel badly for those that want to and cannot. But choosing not to marry is not going to be productive in bringing about gay marriage rights either. I didn't include a statement in my ceremony, but I did (with much trouble) have the line removed in my ceremony which stated that marriage was between "one man and one woman"... I don't even think anyone noticed, but it made me feel better. :)
Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. While I realize that not everyone believes that everyone should be able the person of their choosing, for whatever reason the issue hit me like a ton of bricks yesterday and I wondered if any other bees were in a similar boat.
Like others, I've talked to my gay friends about it and they do not dissuade me from getting married or feel slighted that I am doing what they cannot. Nor do I really think that if I chose not to get married it would really do much of anything (or, would it?) I think maybe that's what's in the back of my mind... if I took a stand and decided not to get married until it was recognized by the state for all people, would it make a difference to my sphere of influence.
Interestingly enough, I think I'd rather do something like that vs. make a political stance at my wedding in the form of written words or white ribbons - only because I know that my guest list contains folks on each side of the 'fence' (so to speak) and I'd be offending those who didn't agree with my position.
Bottom line, I guess I feel like I'm gaining passage into the 'married' club, when others are being denied. And, it makes me question if I want to enter into something that's deemed worthy for a certain population vs. everyone.
Your point is a good one, oracle. I haven't considered not getting married because gays can't get married, but I kind of do have a problem with the whole institution of marriage. If you ask me, in a perfect world, we should simply use "marriage" to refer to a sort of religious union, and something like a "civil union" for legal purposes. Religions should reserve the right to restrict marriages to whomever they want, since they are private institutions, but in my eyes anyone should be able to get a "civil union" (legal marriage). That would be my perfect world.
Really, the only reason we're getting married is tax benefits...
@Miss Burgundy: I get your point and I agree that religious institutions shouldn't be forced to perform marriages on couples who don't meet their specifications, but I still don't think it's fair to exclude certain groups of people from using the term marriage for their union. I'm not getting married in a church, and my ceremony won't be performed by a pastor, religion is not involved at all, but I still consider it a marriage.
My best friend is gay and in fact he is my Man of Honor! While I don't like the fact that he cannot get married (this will change in the future I hope!) I don't feel badly that I am able to get married, but I do feel badly that my best bud cannot get married. This doesn't take away the specialness for me though! And I agree with Lilyfaith on the term "marriage". Marriage can mean many things for many people. For me it is NOT a religious concept, but a concept of love, committment, etc. based on morals, values. Marriage does not have to be about religion, but I certainly don't think the term should have to be changed to civil union. I love the term marriage! :)
I don't feel guilty about being married even though same-sex couples are not afforded this privilege in my state. And maybe I'm quibbling over semantics, but I don't think most of the rest of us feel guilty per se either---I think we empathize. Guilt requires a sense of personal culpability. That same-sex couples cannot legally marry in most of the U.S. is not my fault. Whether you support the law changes or not, if you are doing what you can to uphold and promulgate your views then you don't need to feel guilty.
I do empathize with the desire to get married to the partner of one's choice, but denying myself the privilege of marriage on principle serves no practical purpose I can discern. Goodness knows marriage as an institution has suffered enough, what with divorce being what it is. I look at marriage as an opportunity. Our duty is to make the best of the opportunities we are given and to work so that others may have more opportunities as well, not to reject opportunities on the grounds that everyone didn't receive the same ones at the same time. If we did that we'd never get anywhere. I think you should strive to live in a way that upholds your values and promote those values as best you can. Whether you promote marriage equality or not, I think we all want to promote marriage itself---what better way to do that than by getting married and doing it well?
Agree w/ Tanya123. My getting married doesn't change whether or not they can get married. I just try to be grateful :)
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