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Research not working or going well? That's normal. I'm in my second year of graduate school (pursuing PhD in genetics), and my thesis project is BARELY getting off the ground. Mainly because I work on a non-model organism and I have to be creative while designing experiments. And I SUCK at designing experiments. Sometimes I joke to FI that I should drop out and work as a janitor at his workplace, lol.
To answer your questions, IMO, if you are not looking forward to doing the project, then I say don't do it, and let someone else who really wants it to have a chance at that opportunity. You've got a taste of what research is like and found that you hate it. Although, maybe it's the project you hate. I wish I can know more details because it's difficult to give a straight opinion on this matter. I worked as a summer intern once in a lab. My first project NEVER worked. Then my PI switched projects for me, which was a big relief. I didn't get a paper out as he promised, but it was a valuable experience.
As for going to a two-year program, have you talked to people in that field? What would they recommend, get a second degree first, or later?
I don't have any advice, but plant taxonomy was one of my favorite classes in college!
Finding a way to use a BS in a science field without a graduate degree can be hard. I ended up going to professional school (it was in the plans from the beginning) and I have met a ton of people there would got a BS in biology/chemistry/neuroscience etc. and then realized that they needed another degree if they didn't want to work as a lab assistance forever.
Can you try to find some contacts that have the degree combination you are interested in and talk to them about career prospects?
I'm looking for bacterial endosymbionts in certain species of insect (also EXTREMELY non-model and a huge pain in the butt). Frankly, I'm now pretty sure that it's not just repeated failure that's the issue. I also suck at designing and modifying experiments, and I guess the root of it is that I just don't feel like what the lab is doing really matters. I like reading papers about other peoples' research, just not doing it.
My bosses last summer both did that dual degree/diploma program and have really extensive knowledge in terms of wildlife identification and management. I'm kind of hopeful that I could have a job like that which could lead into management in non-profits and conservency groups, or provincial parks, or the like.
I'll have to ask them about it. Mainly, I really want to be able to provide for my future family adequately, and I want to reach for the stars, but I also want to be happy.
I hear you about wanting to be a provider for a future family. That's one of the reasons I am pursuing a PhD. It's funny, though, how I ended up where I am now. I too wanted to get into some kind of field that deals with wildlife conservation/management. During my undergrad I worked in the field to reintroduce a captive bred endangered species back to it's native habitat at a wildlife refuge. I studied both ecology and genetics.
However, after graduation, I could not get any type of field work with a BS degree, even though I was one of the top students in my class. Those types of positions are few and competitive. Furthermore, these types of projects are limited on who and how many they can hire if and when local, state, and federal funding is cut. Thus they are more likely to pick and choose who they hire. Another example, the job I had for the endangered species project couldn't hire me because they didn't have the money.
I figured with an advanced degree, I have more options. I can still go back into ecology, but with an emphasis in population genetics, for example, that could provide research as to whether a conservation project is working or not.
Btw, I am also working on a insect, the mosquito that transmit malaria parasites.
Which is that? Is that Aedes aegypti? Or a Culex? I'm working on flea beetles.
Thank you so ,much for your post. Now I think I might just try to get the job I want and use grad school as a backup plan. I really want to get into bird/plant species at risk stuff. Doing that last summer really made me feel like I was doing something meaningful.
I graduated in 2006 with a BSc but I had about 9 months of internship experience and I had undergraduate research experience with my professor. I believe that is what really got me the job I did when I graduated.
I couldn't afford to go to get my masters and plus, I didn't want to go through with more schoolling. So I got a full time job at a big pharmaceutical company. I'm a bench scientist and although the days are long and the studies really suck when it doesn't work; it's a great feeling when your experiments do work. I got another job at a biotech company in Seattle doing essentially the same thing I did at my old job and after 6 months of working there, I can get tuition reimbursement for an approved university program. I'm currently getting my masters in pharmacology.
If I had the money and the motivation to get my masters after I finished undergraduate school, I probably would. I would probably suggest that to other undergrads.
For students still in undergrad who don't want to go to get their masters yet, I would highly highly suggest doing a co-op or internship. I know it delays graduation by a semester but industry experience is definitely a good thing when companies are looking for someone to hire. I know a lot of classmates, who didn't do an internship and now they aren't doing anything with their science degree.
A 4-year bio degree basically means that you will be eligable to work at Enterprise Rent-A-Car.
Seriously. It's basically worthless in both industry and academics. In industry the difference between that 4-year degree and a masters is around $20,000+ starting salary increase and infinately more freedom. The company I work for won't even look at a BS candidate if a MS candidate has applied.
If you were to plow through a PhD, by the time you become a lab manager/head, you are basically a professional grant writer. You do very little lab work for the most part (this can vary between institutions)
I would recommend doing a masters in something like project management (and work in industry helping new drugs go through trials) or some other type of management. Environmental management is not a very large job market - I don't think i'd necessarily recommend that. (Also, I am a scientist working in industry, who has watched the hiring practices in both academics and industry, so I promise, I am not pulling this info out of nowhere).
If anything, this info makes me even less willing to go through grad school. I just don't like benchwork. In general, I guess I don't like labs either. In my province, at least, there is a relatively large market for people with practical biology knowledge. A lot of the conservation initiatives are government-controlled.
I guess the thing is that I don't want to work in academia OR the biotech industry.
Maybe I'll just check out and become a stay at home mom. HA
@crayfish: I very strongly disagree. I only have my bachelor's in biology, but I have always worked in my field...and two of those places were universities.
everridiculous, don't get discouraged. Look into those certificates and persue that avenue. Good luck to you!
@everridiculous: Anopheles gambiae and An. stephensi
I took two years off before continuing onto grad school. I wasn't sure what I was going to study, and which lab I would be entering since funding for students isn't that great. But I kept optimistic and an open mind. That summer internship I did very much helped me get into the lab I work in now. I never would have thought I would be studying mosquito immunity, and I never took an immunology course! I thought I was going to study furry critters, lol!
So, get whatever experience you can, you never know where it'll take you.
I graduated a year ago with a Bsc. I was awarded a prestigious CDC public health fellowship, which I completed and then immediatly got a job working at a state public health lab. I think that you can do great things and get into your field with just a Bsc. I did undergrad research and worked hard. I think that the research set me apart for the fellowship, and then both of those things landed me the job I have now. Don't give up! Why not try to get into your field now, even a lower level one. That will give you the flexibility to go for a certificate or what not later. I am planning on applying for an MPH in the fall :)
I thought I wanted to go right to grad school but, like you, I got burned out. Taking some time off and working a regular job in my field was the best decision I ever made in regards to my education. Now I have a state job that offers tuition reimbursement, so I can go back and pay a ton less for it!
Good luck finishing your degree and in the next steps in your life!!
@missapis: If I can ask, what public health fellowship did you do? I'm finishing my doctorate of pharmacy degree in May and am starting my MPH degree this fall (both at once for a year). Anyways, I'm looking into public health and/or clinical research fellowships. I was just curious what your experience was.
@EvaBostonTerrier: I did the APHL Emerging Infectious Disease Fellowship. They have a doctoral level program. Applications are usually in Feb. NIH also has one, but from what I hear, they only take like, 2 people every year lol. The APHL one took 16 my year. It is a lab based research fellowship. You have the potential to be placed at CDC or a number of great state labs. PM me if you have any program specific questions :)
I truly ADORE research and wish my job allowed me time to do some; my fondest memories of undergrad and grad school was the time I worked on various research projects. To me it sounds like you dislike the TYPE of research you are doing. Believe me, there is plenty of research to be done in the great outdoors.
That being said, I usually advise students to pusue a more specialized degree after they get their BS. Very few job opportunities exist for biologists without some sort of specialization. To increase "marketability" in the environmental field, make sure to get some experience in GIS, hydrology, etc.
I'm almost done with my PhD in a biomedical field and in my opinion, if you hate research, do not go to grad school. It's a long time to be unhappy! Also, in the case of the masters, it may feel even longer if you're unhappy AND paying for it. I have had a wonderful experience and I love it, but I have seen ~50% of my peers be miserable and lost when it comes to career paths after coming to the same realization as you (only 6 years later!) Also, I'm not sure how it works for microbiologists, but in my field, when looking for a job candidate an MS is no better than a BS because of how many PhDs are out there looking for jobs.
Instead of pursuing your honors project, I suggest getting an internship or at least volunteering in a job that is more in line with what you think you want to do. Education is incredibly valuable, but I think contacts and experience are equally so. I think experience in the field is what would make you most competitive.
Good luck with your studies! Oh, and be glad you're coming to this realization really early in your career!
I was told that research consists of 90% failure. It's the other 10% that makes it worth it! Getting your first 1st-author paper out there in a great journal is soooo satisfying!
If I'm not mistaken, there are 2 types of Master degrees - terminal and 'w/ thesis'. The terminal one requires mostly just classes, I think, so its more *learning about* science and the 'w/ thesis' one is research-focused, so its more about *doing* science. You might want to look into a terminal Masters; it'll give you the edge (and thus, flexibility in your future endeavors), its still science without the research component, and its relatively short, maybe ~1-2 years?
I have a BSc in biochemistry. The reason I chose not to do a masters was because I'd need the 'w/ thesis' one for what I want to do, and that is generally 3-4 years. (Research takes time because of all the time spent on troubleshooting experiments! It's completely normal.) I'm now in my last year of my PhD program. After undergrad, I went all the way for a PhD mostly because I didn't want to hit a glass ceiling and then have to go back to school when I'm older, since its really only a few years more than a Master's.
It sounds like a short masters program would be cost- and time-effective for you.
If you hate research, seriously, don't do it. I'm in the first year postdoc'ing after my biomedical PhD, and I'm really thinking I made the wrong career choice. Worse, everyone I know (with the exception of my boss, who loves research) hates their job, and wishes they were doing something else. I mainly did it because I was always the academic one, and I wanted to prove I could. Now I've done that, the reality of the job is much less enjoyable.
I'd second whoever said that an MSc isn't really worth more than a BSc - they're right, it's PhD or nothing. If you've found something you love, do that. You'll find you'll make contacts, and things will progress in ways you can't really imagine now, and, although it's not necessarily a clear career path, you'll be happy doing a job you love.
Plus, if you're going to kill yourself doing a job you hate, there are so many better paid ones than academia!
And I can guarantee that whenever the research gets you down, you'll really regret not taking the job you loved.
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Hi bees! Although I'm a habitual lurker, this is one of my first few posts. Thanks in advance for reading this blurb; thinking about this problem constantly has been giving me headaches.
Basically, I'm going into my fourth year of a biology degree in the fall. For a really long time, I was sure that I was going to love research and would graduate, start grad school, get married, and have that life. I excel in school, and I've always keenly felt the prestige and respect surrounding advanced degrees and academia in general.
Given that I thought this was my chosen career path, I applied for and won an NSERC USRA with a microbiology researcher at my university. The project sounded great - my own, interesting, freedom to do with it what I want, the high probability of getting a paper out of it. I was offered a decently-paying summer job with the non-profit environmental group I worked with last summer (I LOVED my job last summer) which would have been outdoorsy, full of adventure, and just generally awesome, although I would have to be out of town most of the summer.
Long story short, I got caught up in the hype of winning the NSERC award. I was originally going to take the environmental job, and now I'm seriously regretting not going for it. I hate research. At first I just thought I hated that things weren't going well. I don't like wasting time, and I feel like my whole job so far has been me wasting time and supplies while trying to get things to work. At this point, I feel like even if things started going well I probably wouldn't care because I don't feel like I'm doing anything worthwhile.
After admitting these things to myself, I hate my job. Every day. And I just wish I were out in the field. Now I'm dreading that future I wanted. I think I just hate all research, and I don't want to do grad school.
Question time!:
Should I still do the honours project next year (that I committed to in March, but that I can still back out of) that would give me the honours designation? I would rather take plant taxonomy and ballroom dancing, but I still want to feel like the best. I'm an extremely competitive person.
As well, I'm thinking about just taking this degree and running with it. Does anybody know whether it would be worth it to do a two-year diploma in something like Integrated Resource Management or Environmental Management? I want to amplify my practical biology skills, and I also want to find a way to maximize my earning power without going to grad school. However, people who do these diplomas often go on to get degrees later, so I don't know how much it would help me in terms of trying to get a job.
Should I just man-up and do a masters in some area of biology to give me an edge? ):
Thanks in advance to anyone who managed to read this monster.
BTW: I have absolutely no interest in professional schools or any professions related to clinical illness.