Weddingbee boards

I think a lot of the problem yo're facing s that he has been trying to keep you in almost a state of constant anticipation so he can feel he surprised you or whatever.  (Frankly, though I've read Mr. Bee's and Mr. Tattoo's posts, I can't really see much point in men waiting these day as long as they do - except when waiting for somethign tagible, like finishing school, settling in a career or moving to a new location/purchasing a house and saving for a ring if a fairly expensive one is imporant to eith party.)  I can't see how any man could honestly thing his SO would say, "No," to an honest proposal, even if it's simple and not a hot-air balloon extravaganzza.  If she was going to say, "No," why would she be driving herself nuts for all these months (years) WAITING for you to ask?!  If she was going to say, "No," why would her self esteem and faith i you drop fro your NOT asking?! (sorry - sore subject and doing my best to relegate all venting on this forum)

Most people who count as "waiting" are in relationships that have lasted longer than a few years, the couple lives together, and the woman who has deiced she's waiting has pretty already made up her mind about the "will you marry me" question - all she needs is to be asked.  I think if a big tease-fest about is wasn't made by our SOs, then a simple proposal over dinner at home or a favorite restaraunt would make most women jump up and down and cry and have no hard feelings.  This whole thing of, "it's coming in X months" "whoops, can't get the ring, sorry", "guess what you're getting for X holiday? (not a ring)" and so on just take the fun out of it, take the surprise the man is working for out of it, and it makes him into the "boy who cried wolf".  Seriously, things seem somewhat backwards these day - it used to be the man with the sweating plams and raised heartbeat when he got on that knee and asked, possibly for the first time letting the woman know that he wanted her for his wife.  Now, we're the ones on our knees, almost BEGGING him to make a decision, and then follow through with the steps to make it official. 

Men don't seem to get that they can't put toothpaste back in the tube.

That's how I explained it to DH once he'd brought up the M word.  Luckily, he caught on & took me ring shopping shortly thereafter.

@LittlePenguin:  You and me both :)  My BF means well, but over the years he's been guilty of telling me to expect birthday or Christmas gifts, but without a steady job back then, he could rarely deliver - leaving me kinda empty handed on those occassions, and feeling a mix of disappointment, resentment for being able to make sure he has gifts on holidays, worthlessness, and then feeling selfish for expecting soemthing at all, and so forth.  He didn't mean to hurt me, and he liked the IDEA of making me happy, but rarely managed to take the time and effort and have the foresight to plan ahead far enough to follow through.  He's improved a lot since he's been working steadily full-time, and has even managed to surprise me, but I try to never have any hopes for a ring, even when my stupid subconcious takes over.

I don't know if I'd even trust some sort of "timeline" given to me by him; I'd just feel scared I was about to be disapponted again.  I don't really get the idea of being teasing about it from the man's point of view.  I guess they don't really realize just how much of an emotional roller-coaster this whole thing IS for a woman. 

@Ms.SofBoston:  If it makes you feel any better, I think yellowlinedpage felt about the same as you - she knew about when it "should" be coming, she was anxious, tired of waiting, frustrated and so on, AND she had the additional sting of several engagements happening around her while she was still in a holding pattern ... and I think I remember some posts by her that a lot like this one - worries about not being happy when it happens, only relieved.  Well, it happened for her, and I think she's pretty darn happy, so don't fret - you will be, too. :)

@pisces36:

Why is a man man bending on one knee with a ring more official than the heart-to-heart talk that couples should have, that my SO and I did have, where they decide that spending the rest of the years together is indeed what they want?

I understand what you and MrSofBoston are saying, that the decision made during an honest (or several honest) conversations between the couple should be the important moment, but human beings place much on ceremony - most high school and college graduates wouldn't dream of not walking across the stage to get handed a fake diploma for the sake of ceremony only to be able to skip all of that and simply pick up the real certificate later... funerals aren't the end or beginning of the mourning process, but they play an important role for many the help with getting through the loss... bar and bat mizvahs and Catholic confirmations don't "really" make the participants "adults", esepcially by today's standards of legal adulthood, but families would cringe if such tradition were ignored, and quinceneras aren't really about offering your daughter out as a marraigeable woman at the age of 15 these days, either.

These are just a few examples I can give off the top of my head for some ceremonies common in Western society - in other areas of the world, there are even more important rituals to mark important moments in life, and to show to movement from childhood to adulthood, from single to married unit, etc.

As for being "officially" engaged - it falls under the same thing, of expectations of certains steps to be taken before it "counts".  Many people see the giving of the ring as the beginning of the "betrothal contract".  It follows a certain tradition that used to always start with negotiations with the lady's father, and ending where possibly, possily without prior knowledge on her part, the man then formally asks for her hand and presents her with some engagement gift to symbolize that he is serious, that he has made a committment and investment into the upcomimg marriage, and also to deomstrate to her family that he is a man who can support his future wife.  By the time a ring is given, USUALLY, a man has made up his mind.  He took the time to think things over, make a decision, and then follow through with the accepted steps of the dance according to our culture's tradition.  I can't say how many women in history have been told by men that they'd marry them, but never got a ring or any vows.  The presentment of the ring IS an "I'll believe it when I see it".  It sounds horrible, I guess and unromantic, but the engagement IS a contract between you two to follow through and marry each other.  Would you buy a car without a contract, or a house?  In fact, in buying a house there are bids, deposits, forms and all sorts of steps you have to take before you officially sign on the house, making it yours.  These are in place, partly to help the realtor or seller know you are serious and not a waste of their time and monay.  Engagement is kinda like that - you now have a kind of contract that spending time and money on the wedding isn't a waste, it'a agreed upon, officially by both parties - that one of you isn't going to spend loads of money only to have the other not honor the "contract" and  back out (yes, this happens, but hopefully not all that often).

I mean, most of us on here wouldn't count ourselves as married without the ceremony, right?  Even though the decision to live together a life-long partners, to possibly start a family, to accept each other and their families (as much as possible, at least) as a married couple was made before even being engaged?  I get what you are saying - I'm just bad about playing Devil's Advocate.

Frankly, I, too, don't quite understand men who tell their soon to be afianced that they have a ring and are hiding it until the right moment - I mean, maybe there are just a lot of couples who can't surprise each other anymore?  I can understand the man buying a ring, and keeping it until he figures out when and where he wants to give it.  I can understand stories about women who find the ring while putting away laundry or seomthing, but don't let him know they know.  I'm just uncertain as to how the whole going shopping together, picking out the exact ring together, even buying the ring that day, but not giving it then works.