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Let me set the scene: I'm walking through Times Square talking to FI and trying to keep a hold of baby girl's hand when some woman shoves a piece of yellow paper in my face and tells me to take it. Thinking that she was a rude bitch and trying to hurry away I just shoved it in my purse. Only when I get back to the apartment do I realize it's a Scientology promotion thing.
Now I'm all for religious freedom, but it irritated me. Just like it irritated me when, back in the day, people would leave church brochures and a dollar (maybe) on the table as my tip. I don't like it being shoved in my face (I'm looking at you, Tom Cruise).
Which made me wonder, I know the celebrities and such are into it, but how many bees are into Scientology?
And please, I don't want this to turn into a cult conversation.
I'm not a fan of anything shoved in my face. Once, in college, I was walking across our campus to class and someone handed me a tiny bible with the statement "You look like you need this." I was pissed. I wasn't on a walk of shame, I wasn't dress inappropriately- likely they were saying this to everyone. But man, was I mad about that.
Not my thing but hey, people can worship whatever/whomever they want. Brochures are annoying, though. It's not just them that do it, I could name several groups that do that. With anything, I smile nicely and thank them for their time, tell them I'm not interested, and if they continue, take whatever they want me to and throw it away.
@IlsaLund: Was it a Gideon Bible? We got those at H.S. graduation and they hand them out on college campus'. A lot of protestants hand those out or fund Gideon to do that.
@beekiss2: I know it's not just them, they just happen to be the most recent culprits.
I guess it just made wonder because I've heard it takes a ton of money to do it and how many average people participate. I feel like we have a nice variety on here so I thought I'd ask.
@beekiss2: I think it was. It was one of the tiny, brightly colored ones people hand out often.
I'm all for religious freedom and I would have normally voted for "whatever, just dont shove it in my face" but the few things that I've heard about the religion, (mostly just from the Tom Cruise craziness) is a little too much for me.
@UpstateCait: I wonder though if it's Tom Cruise of if it's Scientology. Tom Cruise definitely seems like he's a few screws short, he may not be the best person to represent Scientology. I know that John Travolta and his wife are both part of it, and they seem pretty normal.
I dont think you HAVE to take the handouts or brochures, because I certainly dont take anything from anybody on the street. I just smile and shake my head and keep going.
@beekiss2: That definitely could be it. Before all of Toms craziness I hadn't even heard of Scientology but some of the things that were brought up during that whole debacle were a little too much for me (like the whole "Silent Birth" thing). Then again, too each their own. Like I said, I'm all for religious freedom. I dont like it when people tell me that my beliefs (or lack there of considering I'm atheist) are wrong so I certainly wouldn't persecute anyone else for their beliefs.
Normally I am all for believe in what you want, whatever gets you through this life. But the scientologists in Europe are a whole other level of in your face.
In Sweden they actively stand on the major walking streets and block your path, trying to make you listen. I have on several occasions tried to politely tell them I don't want to talk religion with them and they start saying that they aren't talking "religion"...ok then, what is it!?! Lately I have not been so polite :) The "church" here got a huge fine from the government because they wouldn't quit calling the house of a former member, despite the fact that that member had since moved and the new tenants had no idea what they were calling for....other than daily harassment for money.
In France scientology has lost its "religious" standing because of some cult-like practices and demands for money from members.
I voted for "whatever, just dont shove it in my face"
I am this way about most things I would say. As long as you're not forcing it on me or trying to change my beliefs, people can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned lol
I think thats why I partially dont understand why people are so against gay marriage. I know its totally different, but IMO its not affecting me, so why should I care?
I had to watch South Park to understand what was behind Scientology. Its a pain to have religion shoved in your face. I'm not sure what people see in the religion, but I guess its like all others, people just want something to believe in.
@HoneyBear & @beekiss2: Not to hijack the thread but I always have been and always will be a supporter of gay marriage. I know it has nothing to do with Scientology but I kinda just wanted to say that. It makes me really sad that their unions aren't recognized by most simply because of their genders. I can't wait for the day that its legal everywhere.
@MissDane: This is what she was like! Just all up in my face while I'm trying to navigate a 4 year old and a FI who is completely lost in big cities.
@bells: I took it because I was trying to make her go away and fast. She didn't seem to "get" the normal smile and no thank you. I know I don't HAVE to take anything, but it helped to diffuse the situation.
She reminded me of dirty Elmo. :)
I was once walking down Hollywood Blvd. on the way to a screening of Monsters Inc. with my two kids and there's a big Scientology Center right there. They were out on the sidewalk passing out literature and I actually shielded my kids and said only half-kidding, "Run, children, run!" lol
I would have voted "whatever" but they are a dangerous cult-no two ways about it, but protected by the First Amendment, of course. So, as long as they don't accost me on the street, I don't care. I used to date an investigative journalist who actually infiltrated the group to write an expose and I know way more about it than I care to, that's for sure. He went through auditing and every other step to get information on how they operate. This was years ago and he's still "dead agented" all over town for writing that story and they have attorneys on retainer specifically to go after anyone who crosses them. They don't forgive or forget. Ever.
@jayce: Yeah, a million years ago. lol If you Google "Spy magazine", "Scientology" and "Mark Ebner", you might still find it, but he's written several related articles since then. Have fun :)
Well I'm quite surprised to find this post here. And to think I was looking up info for FOCCUS courses. Reinab...thank you for posting. One of the things that attracted me to my FI was his openness to new experiences and ideas. We're both Catholics, born and raised, with an awareness of the strengths of other religions. I was raised to respect people of all faiths and have had friends who were Muslim, Hindu, Jehovah Witness...the list could go on.
That being said - my fiance, then boyfriend, shared with me his knowledge of Scientology, having been introduced to it through the same type of pamphlet incident. He was interested, took several of their courses, auditing and all. Basic things make sense. But from what I've gathered (on my own, not from him) the deeper you go, the more bizarre their studies.
I've been to their Mission (place where their offices are and sessions are held) and before I was even aware, I had filled out the questionnaire, was signed up for auditing and had two books in my possession, all of which went on to my credit card. Happened so quickly my head was spinning. Everyone seemed really nice (see South Park) but something just nagged at me the entire week and I never went to the auditing session. In cleaning the apartment last week I found a receipt for over $15,000 in merchandise (books and courses) that my FI had spent for training in just one year.
Something about the whole thing just bothers me. Gut instinct tells me there's something about this to be very wary of. My FI hasn't been to any sessions for months but we get mail daily from them and he receives phone calls (which he doesn't usually respond to) regularly. His parents are very concerned about his involvement with Scientology as he quotes whole paragraphs of "wisdom" from them all the time. We are planning a wedding in the church and plan to raise our family as Catholics. But...I'm skeptical about what "programming" he may have undergone. I don't know guys...I just don't know!
@Di@na: I was just getting ready to sign off of here when I saw your post. Thank you for posting! I really wondered how this happened/worked. Please don't think I have anything against them, afterall the pamphlet thing was the first and only time I have encountered anyone related to Scientology. I was pretty shocked by the way the woman had acted and wanted to know how or if anyone had the same experience and if they went so far as to try it out.
No judgement here, but I was very interested in your story. I'm glad (I'm not sure if that's the appropriate word) you came on here and shared your experience. I had heard it takes quite a bit of money to be involved with Scientology and from what you say it seems like it just sneaks up on you. I'm sorry you are worried about his experiences there and I hope it all works out for the better, but please listen to your gut instincts. It doesn't matter what the situation if you feel something is off it may very well be. Have you talked him about all of this or is it kind of like an off limits sort of thing? Again just curious.
Best advice I can give on the subject....Get as FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE from these people. DO NOT give them personal information because they WILL harass you daily. They claim to be a religion, but fit the description of a cult perfectly.
That being said, my cousin has been in involved with them for years. We're the same age (which you would think would be awesome)..but since she got involved with them, our relationship has never been the same. I can't even talk to her openly about her belonging to Scientology because if she even thought for a second that I was against it, she'd "disconnect" from me forever.
There are a million reasons why I can say STAY AWAY, but that may make people want to go see what it is even more. If you want to really know what they've done, google "operation snow white," "Lisa McPherson," and visit exscientologykids.org (it's a website created by the current president of Scientology's "disconnected" niece.) Xenutv on YouTube is informative, as is Tory Magoo (sp?), and anything by Anonymous (If you google them, type in like "Scientology Anonymous" and a lot of stuff should show up.)
If you read the crap on their websites, it's all geared to sucking you in and brainwashing you into spending your money on them. People have gone bankrupt because of them. They are the type who capitalize on people who have lost a loved one, are depressed, or anything of the sort. What they do is swoop in (so to speak) and start "helping" you with all of your problems (with a huge fee of course or "donation" as they like to call it.)
Long post I know! I tend to do that..but if I can keep someone from joining this horrible cult then it's all worth it. :)
Not down with it..from what I know about it, I will stay far away! That's just me though! I am a Christian but don't push my beliefs on people..well..sometimes I will give away a new testament(if the Lord leads me to do so)..but not say anything condesending like, "I think you need this."(I guess it depends on how you say that though, there could be a loving way or a condesending way depending on the person). There is a nice, inviting and loving way to do it..and then there is a lame way to do it. And not doing it at all may be better if you're goin to do it in a lame way. It pushes people away..and it's offensive. Haha, someone gave me a pamplet saying, "I think you need this" with a bad tone.. and I said..I already have it! I am Christian! But then she was like.. just take it anyway. Take it anyway? lol..I kept tellin her I was Christian but maybe I just looked bummed out that day?? lol. Too funnny! I don't know about that! I haven't been Christian all my life but I remember before I converted I didn't like people comin up to me about stuff(probably cause some people I met were just about throwing religion at you..and not sharing God's love and not pointing to who He is). People just can come off the wrong way..a non-loving way..and it's wrong. My fiance came to the Lord but it wasn't by me being pushy and lame. It was by showing love and grace. ANYWAY! E-nuf from me! I'll shush it!
My small experience with it...one of the malls I went to a few times in college had a scientology booth/kiosk set up in it (strangely enough in front of Fredericks of Hollywood). So, this time I was there with a friend of mine and I decided to do that reading your moods test (e-meter?) I was mostly curious about how it worked.
At the time, I was a psych major, and doing a lot of volunteer work with people (so sort of hyper aware to behavior and intentention) and I was mostly curious their process and what their motive is, so to speak. And I realized that what they do is ask you questions that relate to common areas of stressors in one's life (specific family members, jobs, school, etc). Then, they tell you specific things rate high, and allow you talk about them. And I know how rare it can be to find someone who will listen to you talk about your problems non-judgmentally, and how great of a way it is to really drag people in.
I was able to pick up on this early on, so I was a bit of a stubborn person and just said no to all their questions. ("Oh I'm seeing you're really overwhelmed by school. The meter is reading high." "Oh no, I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on it.") And each time I said no, they'd find something else to focus on. It was pretty interesting.
The MOST interesting part though...after this whole test, my friend was asking her about the ideas and philosophy. And throughout the hour (yes hour) we were standing there listening to her, the conversation got stranger and stranger. Like someone else said, they start normal and it just gets odder. The beginning was something about finding your place in the world, something neutral..I don't know, nothing offensive. And though I don't remember most of the details, it did get stranger. At one point, she said that all scientologists remember everything, including the moment of their birth. Nice...
So, it's strange. I agree that generally I want to support people and their decisions. Though I have trouble fully supporting a belief system that is so restrictive, potentially damaging, and appears to be run like a business. And in relation to that whole business thing--they run commercials here now for scientology. Totally nice, generic, what do I do with my life, how do I answer lifes unanswerable questions...I think when a "religion" has to advertise, there's a problem.
I voted for 'Whatever, just don't shove it in my face' because I feel this way about a lot of things. Not just one specific religion. I'm Catholic (not hard core) and I don't like it when strict Catholics are in 'my face' about our religion. Personally, for me, I feel that religion is a very private thing, so I keep it to myself and I wishes would be for others to do the same. And this also goes for politics, etc.
@reinab505: You know, at the beginning of our three year relationship we DID talk about it. A lot! That was my first interaction with anyone who had studied Scientology on any level. But he clearly stated that he was not a scientologist. Just had an interest in world religions and ways of thinking etc.
Now though, I do feel as of it's off limits. Although he avoids going to their gatherings and refuses phone calls, he still places high value on their teachings. I'll be honest, I do feel as if he's been brainwashed, for want of a better word. They do draw you in when you're at your weakest, or focus on your weakest areas. Now which human doesn't have weak spots.
It started off when I cam to visit him in his home town. His "friends" at the mission were all looking forward to meeting me FINALLY! We went in and I left with that test in hand and my commitment to come back to have it scored. They called every other day inquiring if I was done and ready to come back in. Feeling pressured because of course, they were HIS friends, we went back in with my completed test.
They gave me my analysis based on the results. One of the sections specifically didn't sound anything like me. And I KNOW myself! But they insisted YES, that IS who you are. "Trust us! We'll show you when you come in for your first auditing session. Are you free next weekend? We'll put you down for Saturday then!" Ok...guard went up. While I was in the room getting my results analyzed, people kept popping their heads in saying "hi", and "there's this book you'll love, I'll get it for you" etc. This is how I got suckered into buying material and registering for the course.
I have grown to trust my instincts and I pride myself on being perceptive. Like you, I had/have nothing against them, because my knowledge of their beliefs were so limited. But the more more I learn and hear, the more skeptical I become. Again, they all seem like the happiest people on the planet. All drinking from some spiked kool aid! I trust myself, and my SELF tells me something's not right. I also feel like the more my FI delved into it, the more unhappy he became with himself.
I think it's insane, but I think that about pretty much every religion. As long as they aren't starting wars over it or trying to convert me, to each their own.
I don't know sh*t all about this. All I know about it or even really heard about it is that Tom Cruise is a Scientologist. And he has lured Katie Holmes into it as well. I will admit this shamefully that I never bothered to find out even an ounce of info on it. This led me to answer with 'don't shove it in my face'. 
People can explore whatever but after visiting a bookstore and leafing through the Dianetics texts Hubbard published back in the day I do think that Scientology or anything with science in the name is not an accurate representation of this groups beliefs.
@judithsr: ...I think when a "religion" has to advertise, there's a problem.
This, right here. I can't get behind any religion that has to advertise, and by "advertise" I mean any religion that actively seeks to convert people. If you knock on my door and try to peddle your religion on me, we're done. If you try to hand me a bible on the street (I find it hard to believe that anyone in their adult years has never seen a bible before, if they wanted to read one, they would) or a pamphlet, I'm throwing it straight in the trash. If you, god forbid, leave me a Jack Chick tract instead of a tip on a table (cue college flashbacks) I'm hunting you down to shove that tract up...well, you know.
Seriously, the biggest way to turn someone OFF your religion is to try and push it on them. What makes you think your religion is the right one? What makes you think it's acceptable to tell someone to abandon their own beliefs in order to adopt yours? Religion is a very personal, subjective thing. You have absolutely no right to try and change my beliefs for any reason whatsoever. Do I come to your house to tell you that "Christmas tree" in your living room is really one of many pagan symbols stolen by Christians when they forced pagans to convert or that "Christmas" is a made up holiday meant to replace the pagan holiday Yule? No, because that would be obnoxious.
The whole conversion process really gets under my skin, in case you couldn't tell. Sorry for the hijack.
They say you can't make any noise during child birth? They can take their "religion" and shove it up their butts. I thought only celebrities followed that religion anyways..
Oh man do I know a lot about $cientology! I've been researching them for years, they are a cult and it disgusts me that the government gives them tax exempt status. They will bankrupt you before you even know it. It is dangerous for families, they will separate your children from you, they will "disconnect" you from friends and family who don't outright agree with their beliefs. Operation Clambake (google it) has tons of information on these people. I lived in Clearwater for a few years (their home base) and they have taken over the town, the cops, everything. They are honestly scary and I feel incredibly bad for anyone who gets duped into giving them any money.
I would have voted "whatever" but they are a dangerous cult
I agree. I do not see how they are considered a religion at all.
I would characterize Scientology as a cult/fraud masquerading as a religion.
What the hell kind of religion only allows its members to advance if they have zillions of dollars to spend on their ridiculous "auditing" and merchandise? It's no wonder celebrities are so drawn to it. How convenient to be able to buy your religious credibility.
And as @arenyth: said, their methods could be taken straight from "Psychological Abuse and Brainwashing 101."
I'm all for freedom of religion, but Scientology is NOT a religion. What they're doing should be illegal. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of their celebrity spokespersons *ahem* followers are getting a nice cut of the profits.
@lezlers - and by "advertise" I mean any religion that actively seeks to convert people
I don't personally actively seek to convert people to my religion but as far as I know almost every "traditional" religion does...
I voted for just don't shove it in my face. A girl I work with practices Scientology, she seems pretty normal and I'd rather have a conversation with her anyday over another girl with my same religion, the scientologist is NORMAL, my fellow Catholic is a nutcase...
I'm finding this post VERY interesting. Actually, one the most interesting posts I have ever come acrossed on WB. I don't know really anything about Scientology other then the whole Tom Cruise thing. Even though I had no idea what their beliefs are, I always felt Tom Cruise had this controlling and brain washing type demeanor to him. I am super curious to hear more posts on this though....
I am a commited Christian. Never will I ever push my beliefs on you. Actually something that made me respect my church all the more was when my husband and I moved two hours away, our pastor told us he doesn't care what church we go to just as long as we still keep going and meet other young couples of faith. There was no forcing our particular religion on us just making sure we keep some type of faith. That is how religion is suppose to be ran.
A few years ago when I went to the American Idol tour concert, everyone was waiting outside in line to get in. There was this couple there who were dressed as if they were amish. I didn't think that they were because I have never came acrossed rude amish. They were holding picket signs saying how we were all going to hell for "worshiping" American Idol. His wife was shoving paper in everyones faces. I took major offence to the guy saying this so I told him to lighten up and its not called "worshiping" its called "entertainment". He got EXTERMELY defensive and started saying "Oh entertainment huh? Well I guess you won't be forgiven. Prepare yourself for enternity in hell!" Scary, scary stuff! I still don't know what religion that was....I'm still very curious though on where they were from.
I hate having it pushed on me and I tell people to go away who come to my house. I'm not pleasant about it, either. There have also been a lot of advertisements for religions on the radio and tv lately. Without calling them out, I think they're quite obvious. They just bother me...like they're trying to sell it to me. It just irks. It feels like advertisement of religion is becoming popular and I guess scientology is jumping on the bandwagon. maybe celebrity endorsement isn't doing it for them anymore =P
We had a special fellow who would come to our college campus with a little child in tow and tell us all we were going to hell and called the women whores and sluts for wearing shorts and t-shirts and yelled at the men for frolicking with us and how it was such an abomination. He was pretty fun but it was very 'in our faces'. you couldn't walk across campus without this guy standing 20 feet away from you, pointing at you, and calling you a whore. I have no idea what religion he was, though. But besides my father and ex-friend, that's up there on my list of in-my-face religiousness.
Any religion who has Tom Cruise as their leader makes me laugh a little, though =]. He is definitely a nutters!
@june42011: there's actually plenty of religions that don't actively seek to convert people. Pagan, Catholic, Amish, Baptist, Muslim, Buddist...
It's pretty much just Mormons, Christians, Scientologists and Jehovah's Witnesses that actively try to convert people. Again, I'm talking about those who knock on your door, stand on street corners, shove bibles in your face, ect. Friggin' obnoxious.
@lezlers - actually I know for a fact that Catholics and Baptists do, they're called missionaries
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