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Enlisted Vs. Officer - Well no one is better to start, each has their own jobs to do. Enlisted is basically when you... enlist into the army lol You can go to one of those offices that tell you to join the army and they sign you up and you are done, go to bootcamp finito. Officers need at least a BS (as far as AF goes, FI is an AF officer) before you can be considered. FI went to the Air Force academy.. for the army, you would go to West Point. You could also go through an Army/AF ROTC program to become an officer and a regular university. One is commisioned (officers) the other is not (enlisted). I think an enlisted person can apply after some time to become an officer but from what I know, it is pretty hard. There are also some uniform differences, officers wear their rank on their shoulders and enlisted on their sleeves, pay differences, housing differences etc.
Housing- I think it depends on where you are stationed. FI is at LAAFB (los angeles) and it is set up pretty strange where the base housing is far away from the base lol.. we live 5 mins from the base and the housing is about 30 mins away. It just made sense for us to live off base. As for the animals, you might want to check with your housing people to see if they allow animals, they might not and that might make your decision for you! I have heard that it is easier to get involved with the AF/Army life if you live on base/post.. but this is the first place we have been and I just assume that it is. We are pretty secluded off base (no AF wife friends ).
Wife club- I think what you are talking about is the FRG (family readiness group). Anyone can go to the meetings because it is about family, and you will be army family :) Mostly wives attend from what I know though and yes you can still attend.
Leaving animals- From what I know, when you move on post it will be a normal job ( 9-5) depending on your job. But you should be home long enough to take care of your animals and children if you have any. If you will be going anywhere for a long period of time ( a couple days or so) you will be notified.
Yelling- sorry I can't answer this :-( But I am sure everyone gets yelled at. There is another thread by an Active Duty bee on here.. you might get more insight from her :) hope this helped! good luck!
Off base housing is usually better, especially as dual military (you each will get paid BAH. One will get bah +dependent the other regular BAH). Our BAH covers mortgage, electric, gas, and our car payment. If you want to see what your BAH rate will be you may can google "BAH calculator by zipcode" Add your/your husband's rate (if going in enlisted E-1 during bootcamp, possibly an E-2/3 after if you have some college).
If you are going to be dual military you won't get BAH during bootcamp if you go at the same time
As for both of you joining the Army- you're going to have to get rid of the pets. You both will deploy at some point and it may be at the same time. There is also no guarantee you will be stationed at the same base or even 50 miles from each other. Recruiters will tell you they do this.. most of the couples I know who are dual military are separated by a few states. One couple is at the same base, but when she deploys.. he's home. When he's deployed she's home. They haven't seen each other in 18 months. I'm not trying to deter you from joining, I think it's great to be a dual military couple, but don't believe everything a recruiter tells you and prepare yourself for long separations/no pets. Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst.
-My sister went to USMC bootcamp/my husband OCS- they both say it's difficult, but very doable. You will get yelled at, you will be tired, but you'll do it if you really want to.
- I don't know anything about the wives clubs. If you want to do something with your time and meet other wives you should look into volunteering with the relief associations. I thought about doing it for awhile, but school takes up a lot of my time.
- There is no difference between officer and enlisted wives. The only difference I see is when something bad happens. Ex: I know one of the wives. Her husband did something bad. She's upset my husband didn't protect her husband at captain's mast. Her husband isn't being honest and I can't tell her the truth. There is a difference between officers and enlisted active duty members- My husband loves his chief (who has three degrees), but he could never ask him to hang out. They aren't allowed to fraternize.
For clarification, you just don't go to the Academy or West Point- they are among the most selective colleges in the United States.
@MrsNeutrino: Aren't you Karissa?
Officers need at least a BS (as far as AF goes, FI is an AF officer) before you can be considered. FI went to the Air Force academy..
*is curious how your husband went from being airman to officer in a month*
I agree with just about everything that @MrsNeutrino: said.
1. Enlisted and Officer--While a college degree is one contributing factor, it is not the only difference between officer and enlisted. I know several enlisted military members who have college degrees and at least one commissioned officer who does not.
By definition a commissioned officer (Paygrades O1-O10) is one who has been entrusted with a role of leadership under the direct authority of the President of the US. (At least for US military members). A commission can be earned in a variety of manners. The most common is to commission as a result of time at an undergraduate insitution, whether a service academy (West Point, Annapolis, AF Academy, CG Acadmey) or through an ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Course). A second option is to commission and attend OCS (Officer Candidate School). Receiving a commission and going to OCS can be done by applying for a commission as a civilian when you first enter the service or enlisting and then applying from within the enlisted ranks to commission. In the Army going from enlisted to commissioned officer is called "Green to Gold", you can google that for more information. There are other ways to commission but they are not nearly as common or even applicable anymore, such as a battlefield commission.
A warrant officer (paygrade W1-W5) is a commissioned officer who holds his commission from Congress, not the president. A warrant officer is usually someone with a particular skill/knowledge set that is considered a 'professional' in that field and receives the warrant from that.
An enlisted member is pretty much everyone who is not a commissioned officer. There exists within the rankings of enlisted members a point at which they are called "Non-Commissioned Officers" or NCOs. This means that they have achieved a level leadership within the ranks but that they do not hold a commission. The level of NCO is generally reserved for those in paygrades E5 and higher (it differs a bit from branch to branch).
Basically, paygrade=rank in the military. It is generally easier to speak in terms of paygrade than rank because an E4 in the Army gets the same pay as an E4 in the navy but have totally different 'ranks' and as such it can get VERY confusing. Paygrades start at E1 for enlisted, W1 for Warrant, and O1 for officer.
As far as being a spouse, rank ought to have very little to do with it. That being said, there is still often a division between Officer and Enlisted spouses. The division exists because officers and enlisted members are not allowed to 'fraternize'. It is a rathy hazy, generic term that basically boils down to the fact that a commissioned officer really shouldn't go hang out and become drinking buddies with the enlisted guys in his command. No matter if your husband is an E1 or an O9, it is considered quite crass to wear your husband's rank as a spouse.
2. Housing is going to vary from base to base. (or post, I keep forgetting you are asking about Army! lol) Some bases are going to have a lot of really nice housing available, others will have very little and it won't be all that great. Some places will have housing available immediately, others might have a waiting list of 1+ YEARS for on base housing. The big thing to do is just do your homework for the base. Call housing and see what restrictions they have, especially concerning pets. When orders are cut to a new command, a sponsor will be assigned. Ask the sponsor and the sponsor's spouse what housing is like both on and off base, make a decision based on the base and not on a general "all base housing sucks/rocks". I will say though, that most base housing offices have a pet limit. As such, with more than 1 or 2 pets it sometimes just becomes easier to find off base housing that allows pets. Again though, it will vary from base to base.
3. Taking care of pets is a lot like taking care of kids, except the military doesn't care quite as much. When you are in the military, your time is NOT your own. You belong to the US Government for however long your contract says. That means that you could leave for the office in the morning, and could possibly find yourself in the middle of a mission and be gone for 2 weeks. You are on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. With a married military member with a civilian spouse, the onus rests with the spouse to care for any pets/children that the couple has. With a single military member the onus relies on the member to have back up plans in place at all times for car of pets/children. The single members I know tend to live in the barracks, no pets allowed, or with a roommate who can care for their pets in an emergency. The dual military couples I know have a close friend or neighbor that they can rely on to walk/feed the dog if hours run late or an emergency situation arises.
In short, your hours as a military member are NOT set. Very rarely will you have a position that has you in the office 8-5, Monday-Friday only. Even if you do have that as a 'normal' schedule, there will be exceptions to that.
4. Never having been through bootcamp myself, I cannot answer that. What I can say though is that if you are interested at all you need to go talk to a recruiter. They are the ones that can answer questions for you and point you in the direction of others to get a first hand experience opinion.
Feel free to send me a private message if you have any other questions.
@maureen9004: My husband has always been an officer, I just refer to him as an airman because I thought thats what both enlisted and officers who read the airman creed were. I don't broadcast that he is an officer; most people don't care. I don't know what ever gave you the impression that he was not an officer. He did not go from airman to officer, my airman is an officer. Is that explaination ok with you?
@Penguingal06: Great insight. I am fairly new and was giving her the knowledge that I have aquired during this time, I am glad you could come along and go into more detail as well as give me some additional information as well.
@MrsNeutrino: Your posts on the old account contradict this- but hey, it's none of my business. I was just curious.
What gave me the impression: 1. My husband would never want to be referred to as a seaman. He worked hard for his degree and commission. It's compareable to calling your doctor a nurse- they would correct you. 2. You wrote a post where you were clearly upset I made a comment and thanked me for the apology. It struck me as odd then. There are other things, but it's not worth debating.
@serabell- Are you and your DH only looking into options with the Army?
@maureen9004: I don't know how it works in the navy and it is apparent things are different in the AF. My husband does not mind being referred to as an airman, because he is in the air force and is one. He is the one that told me they all read the same airman creed.
Here is the original post you are questioning. make sure you read carefully this time :)
OK! so I am fairly new to this whole military life thing..(less than 2 years..). All I know about military life is what I see on Army wives and from my USAF officer FI. My FI grew up as a military brat and his dad was enlisted...Fi then went to USAFA and is now an officer. Is there really this social divide between enlisted and officers??? An officer's wife recently responded on one of my posts something to the effect of.. 'this cost this much..and that cost that much..can you really afford that on an AIRMAN's salary because MY husband is an OFFICER and we would struggle'. Ill tell you, I was furious for all of the enlisted wives that this sterotype of officers' wives is true and they think they are better! I was litterally disgusted by the comment, and FI was too! I know that salary is no secret in the military..but DAMN.. I feel like it is sooooooo reduntant to bring up SOMEONE ELSE'S finances! At that moment, i was ashamed to be an officer's wife. Have any of you come across this behavior? Do you enlisted wives have experience with other wives like this? This is so tasteless and disgracefull..
I am an American Airman.
I am a Warrior.
I have answered my nation's call.
I am an American Airman.
My mission is to fly, fight, and win.
I am faithful to a proud heritage,
a tradition of honor,
and a legacy of valor.
I am an American Airman,
Guardian of freedom and justice,
My nation's sword and shield,
Its sentry and avenger.
I defend my country with my life.
I am an American Airman:
Wingman, Leader, Warrior.
I will never leave an Airman behind.
I will never falter,
and I will not fail.
@MrsNeutrino: I didn't bother to read your entire post- there is absolutely no social divide- this wasn't about officer vs enlisted.
I was honestly curious because your wording and actions have confused me several times. it's about you being truthful, don't hide behind the officer vs. enlisted stuff. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.
Okay, well I just wanted to chime in a little. My husband is in the army and he's an enlisted soldier.
Housing varies greatly from post to post. Whether it would be better to live on or off post, depends on your personal situation and where you are stationed. BAH is determined by your army post. If you live on post, your entire BAH goes to housing. In our situation, we saved a little over $100 a month by living off post. I know there's usually an animal limit but I don't know if it's the same everywhere. I think it's 3 or 4 animals at our post. There are also some limitations (i.e. no ferrets).
As far as any army wife clubs, do you mean the FRG? If so, I would say you are absolutely welcome. It might be harder because your schedule might conflict with the FRG or you may just feel like you don't relate as much because most of the women are wives and not enlisted themselves. That really, really varies from person to person and from FRG to FRG!
I wouldn't say you have to get rid of your pets but there are situations where you would need other arrangements to care for them. There may be times where you're training in the field and won't be home. Trainings can be for a night or two but they can also last a week or two. Some may be even longer. You would also need to make arrangements if you were to get deployed.
My aunt is in the national guard and she had to go through BCT just like she would have if she had joined the army. It's definitely tough to go through and they will yell at you on a daily basis. Basically, the drill sergeants give a sense of authority and the trainees learn their place. Most people do end up crying. It's a stressful situation.
No matter what anyone tells you, there is NO guarantee that you two would be stationed together. Recruiters will tell you otherwise, but it's not true. You could get stationed at Ft. Lewis and he could get stationed at Ft. Drum. It happens. You would also have to consider deployments and know that they could happen at completely different times.
I will chime in about Basic Training. I went through in '99, and I know alot has changed since then, but I LOVED IT. It was the toughest thing I have done thus far. I remember alot of running, alot of yelling, alot of push-ups, and wondering why the heck do I need to shine black boots every night, when they're going to get filthy tomorrow! I also remember that I was treated the same as my male counterparts, and that gave me so much confidence in myself.
What you have to remember is that, although it's difficult, no one wants you to fail, and they will work with you to make it through!
I went the Green to Gold route and received my commission in 2006. You can also do OCS if you have a Bach. degree or a 2-year associates working on a Bach.
@maureen9004: Seems like the Army and Navy have alot in common. In the 10 years I was in, whenever someone used the word Soldier, we knew they meant enlisted personnel.
@maureen9004: I find it very interesting how you edit your posts after I have already commented. I answered you about my husband going from airman to officer to quench your curiousity. I showed you the post from my other account that shows you I have already and always stated my husband is a USAF officer. I am not hiding behind anything, you pose no threat to me. If it rank does not really matter at the end of the day why are you so persistent? I am flattered that you care about me and my life so much to be honest. AND about me being honest? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? Seriously, your ignorance will not change my FI's rank so you can continue to think what you like.
@MrsNeutrino: okay, seriously? can you at least respect the OP and take your arguing to a PM. it's ridiculous that she asked for information and all you've done is fill this thread with snarky comments.
From skimming: Post was edited because I thought it sounded harsh and felt bed/ wanted to address you and this rank thing.. Rank has nothing to do with anything when it comes to spouses. I don't know how many more ways I can say this.
I already stated why I asked. You admitted to not knowing certain things- that helps me make sense of some of your posts. Resolved.
@Mrs. Menard to Be : I have already sent the OP an apology PM, she says its quite alright.
I've been reading thru the comments & you ladies have been very helpful, thank you! I'm fine with discussion, it actually helps me understand things more in detail. & yes @MrsNeutrino: did send me a PM yesterday & I'm fine with everything. I was actually kinda surprised she apologized, almost everything was related to what I had asked. I don't want arguements on here, I simply was asking what the difference was (skimmed thru other military threads & it came up a few times so thought it may be important to me).
@lampshade127: No, but DH thinks the Army is the best choice. He just said maybe I should join the Air Force. He has a friend in the Air Force who's a girl & they spoke about everything yesterday (while I did taxes, so I missed out on the details)... so I need to get info from the Air Force. Here, all the branches are in the same building, so it makes it easier to get info :). Is there something else I should consider?
@MrsNeutrino:I'll ask them about the Officer thing. I have like 85 college credits but only have my AA degree. Do Officer's still have to go to bootcamp? Cause I would love any way to NOT do bootcamp!! I'm glad to hear I can still be involved in the clubs. I just wouldn't have any friends when moving & that seems the best way to make friends :). I don't have kids, just pets. I don't mind being away a few days or an occasional week because I'm sure there's a pet daycare somewhere in town. I just don't want to be gone like 6 months because that would be an issue. DH says if I got an office job in the army I wouldn't be deployed. I will look into the yelling a bit more. I mean an occasional "hurry up" is fine but if I'm drilled for like 5 mins of non-stop yelling, I couldn't handle it.
I am going to reply to everyone soon but sorry if I haven't replied to you yet! I sincerely appreciate everything you are telling me, its really helping me make this big decision.
The recuiters make it sound amazing but all our friends & family are saying its a mistake, we will regret it, don't do it. So its really hard to decide on what to do, we know we will have their support but its hard to bounce ideas when their biased.
@serabell: Not all branches of the armed forces are the same when it comes to benefits and job selection. Although pay is generally the same (doctors and lawyers get different perks through-out the services), lenght of training, job selection and availability, and certain benefits differ. For example the Marines do not have a medical branch, like the Air Force and Navy. And when I first enlisted, only the Army guaranteed you your speciallity. In the Marines you'd go through training and get your speciality following your initial training.
Hope that helps!
I'm terrible about straying off topic, so I'll quote your questions. :-)
So DH may join the army & I may join him as well but I'm still undecided.
As has been said, if you are both in the service, you will most likely be put on opposite deployment schedules, and won't see each other much.
I was reading a few other posts & there was something going on about an enlisted vs an officer's wife. What is the difference? I have no idea of ranking in the army. I'm not trying to stir up any debates on which one is "better" just wondering what this is.
The only spouses the military treats differently are same-sex spouses. All other spouses are treated the same. The difference between being an officer spouse versus an enlisted spouse is that officer spouses usually have to deal with a lot more political BS among the other officer spouses. Your social dealings with the COs spouse may affect promotion, evaluations, extra duties, or other things. It's not legal and it's not fair, but it can happen. It's not as prevalent among the enlisted ranks.
Is it better to have off base housing or on base housing? I have a dog & 2 cats so I would prefer a yard. I read there's army wife clubs as well? How do I know which clubs are good & which ones aren't? If I'm also in the army would I still be able to be in the wife clubs?
I agree with PP that it varies from location to location. A wives club is only as good as the women in it, so some are better than others. You can't really know until you meet them. Active duty members don't typically hang out in wives clubs because it puts you in the bad position of being involved in your (soldiers', sailors', airmens') personal lives.
If DH & I were both in the army, we'd have our pets watched over during boot camp & schooling. But after that, we'd take them to our post/base, but will I be home often enough to take care of my dog? I can leave a cat for a few days but not my dog.
As mentioned before, you will most likely be on opposite schedules, so *someone* will be home with the dog, but not both of you at the same time (most of the time). Also, not being deployed is not the same as being home all the time. You may still need to be away for ops. You would need to have a dog sitter or board your dog.
How hard is boot camp for girls in the army? I know sometimes they yell at you to get you to do more, but if I get yelled at for a period of time, I will probably just completely shut down & maybe cry. Yelling does not make me want to keep going, it makes me want to stop what I'm doing & get away.
Boot camp is the same for girls as for guys, only you have to deal with the hormonal factor and synching your monthly cycles. You'll get yelled at as much as guys do (maybe more) and especially if they see that you are having a hard time with it, they'll pick on you more. The Drill Seargent's job is to break you, if you don't break down at least once, they aren't doing their job. :-) Don't worry, you survive it and move on. It makes you a stronger person. If you can't handle being criticized or brutal honesty, the military may not be a good fit. Boot camp isn't the only place where you get yelled at.
I'm sorry if my questions are kinda dumb but I never paid attention to the army stuff & now it may be my life for at least 4 years so trying to figure out what its like.
Officer vs. Enlisted: I would recommend ROTC. You only wear a uniform one day a week, there is no bootcamp, you get a college education paid for, and in the end you get the same thing someone from an academy gets: a commission.
Sidenote, regardless of rank: Active duty Air Force are referred to as "airmen." Active duty Army are referred to as "soldiers." Active duty Navy are referred to as "sailors." And USMC are ALWAYS "Marines." :-)
@MightySapphire: Great way of putting it.
Officer vs. Enlisted: I would recommend ROTC. You only wear a uniform one day a week, there is no bootcamp, you get a college education paid for, and in the end you get the same thing someone from an academy gets: a commission.
Not quite true. PenguinGuy did Navy ROTC and he did go to a version of bootcamp. It was not enlisted bootcamp at Great Lakes nor was it the OCS version (think Officer and a Gentleman) but it was a several weeks of basic training over the summer before his freshman year of college. At his basic training he ran, did push ups, got yelled at, and generally got the same introduction to the military that someone at Great Lakes (where Navy does bootcamp) receives.
I also feel confident in saying that Naval Academy students also attend a similar multi-week basic training program prior to starting at the Academy. Again, these basic training components are not the same as a full fledged bootcamp, but you get you still get broken down in order to become a better leader.
Now, if you noticed, that referenced the NAVY only. I have no clue what AF and Army ROTC students do. Marines? Well, as far as I know they are part of the Navy ROTC.
Academy candidates go through "Plebe Summer" and have a whole summer of what is basically glorified hazing by upper classmen. They learn military basics (standing at attention, formations, shiphandling) and they do basic military calisthenics and cardio. (Somewhere an Academy grad is upset I wrote that.)
Each ROTC unit is different, but most do offer an optional one (or two) week "orientation" where you learn military basics and they do make you do sit ups, push ups, etc. You typically do stay in a barracks, but it really can't be compared to enlisted basic training. It's nowhere near the intensity, duration, or stress of basic training. Also, it is optional. Because of technicalities, they can't require it.
AF candidates do pretty much the same thing.
Army candidates DO go through extra training so they will be prepared to lead battalions in wartime. There is more rigor in their training (IMO).
And you are right about the Marines. Usually you enroll in the Navy ROTC, go through three years of being a midshipman, and the Marines pick you up as a marine candidate in the last year or semester (so they only have to pay for that since they don't have a lot of money).
@MightySapphire: Sidenote, regardless of rank: Active duty Air Force are referred to as "airmen." Active duty Army are referred to as "soldiers." Active duty Navy are referred to as "sailors." And USMC are ALWAYS "Marines." :-)
well said!
-In addition, My FI is an Academy grad (USAFA) and has ROTC people that he works with now. The two experiences are incomparable. Besides being some of the most intelligent in order to be accepted at all! the bootcamp (it IS hazing by the upperclassmen) is long and it doesn't end for basically 3 years until you are doing the hazing! There are so many rules that ROTC don't have to deal with, inspections, class load, inspections, no girls and guys in rooms with doors closed, inspections lol I dont know about the other academys but USAFA has such a high failure rate it isn't fully. BUT all of that feels worth it when you walk across the stage. It is also very hard on relationships. OH! and you can't be married when you join or for the 4 years you are there. so.. poop :-(
This is sort of semantic debate, if you look in any dictionary Airman is used when referring to enlisted members of the United States Air Force. Informally, it can refer to any member of an air force, to any pilot, aviator, or aircrewman- military or civilian, male or female. So technically we're both correct.
Years ago I went through the commissioning process with the Air Force and learned the ranks so for me the term is associated as a formal rank. Sort of like the term seaman- also the lowest rank in the Navy. I was once corrected by a client when I saw Navy on his paperwork and said without really thinking (I was nervous), "So, I see you're a seaman."
@MrsNeutrino: Several weeks ago, I responded to your post about the difference between officers' wives and enlisted wives. One thing I would like to add is that the officers' wives I know, including myself, would not be as rude/snappy to others as you have been on this post. You may not wear your husband's rank, but you are an extension of him, and in turn, you represent him. I hope that you'll keep this in mind in the future.
ETA: Enlisted wives are also generally very kind and respectful. I wasn't trying to imply a dichotomy.
Thank you to everyone who replied. I'm sorry I haven't replied sooner. After reading all of this & looking up stuff online & talking with friends/family DH & I have decided that the military is not for us, at least not right now. I really do appreciate everyone's help & comments, without some of this info we may have signed up!
@serabell: I am sorry to hear that you won't be joining the community but glad you got enough info and insight to realize that it was not for you before it was too late! eek! that would have been terrible. What made you come to that decision?
@serabell: I've been wondering about you guys!!! :) I'm glad you were able to make an informed choice and do what's best for you as a couple!!
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So DH may join the army & I may join him as well but I'm still undecided.
I was reading a few other posts & there was something going on about an enlisted vs an officer's wife. What is the difference? I have no idea of ranking in the army. I'm not trying to stir up any debates on which one is "better" just wondering what this is.
Is it better to have off base housing or on base housing? I have a dog & 2 cats so I would prefer a yard. I read there's army wife clubs as well? How do I know which clubs are good & which ones aren't? If I'm also in the army would I still be able to be in the wife clubs?
If DH & I were both in the army, we'd have our pets watched over during boot camp & schooling. But after that, we'd take them to our post/base, but will I be home often enough to take care of my dog? I can leave a cat for a few days but not my dog.
How hard is boot camp for girls in the army? I know sometimes they yell at you to get you to do more, but if I get yelled at for a period of time, I will probably just completely shut down & maybe cry. Yelling does not make me want to keep going, it makes me want to stop what I'm doing & get away.
I'm sorry if my questions are kinda dumb but I never paid attention to the army stuff & now it may be my life for at least 4 years so trying to figure out what its like.