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DH and I were at lunch today with one of our co-workers when the topic came up. DH, an atheist, feels that it’s important to expose children to religion at a young age. He feels that even though we’re both atheist, we should baptize our hypothetical children so that they have the option to be a member of the church if that’s the path they choose to take. I personally disagree. Allowing my children to be baptized means that’s I’m vowing to raise those kids in the church and teach them about god, both of which I cannot do. I don’t think I would ever be able to teach my children something that I don’t believe to be the truth. The whole thing just seems pretty hypocritical to me. Now, if my future kids were old enough to really form their own opinion and decided that they were believers and wanted to join an organized religion then I would happily support them. I just don’t see myself providing the tools for them to reach those opinions at such a young and impressionable age.
Both DH and I were raised Catholic yet we’re both atheist now. We were Catholic at one time because we were forced to be. We didn’t make the decision to believe in god or go to church, our parents did that for us. Now we’re both staunch atheists who won’t step foot inside of a church unless it’s for a special occasion. I feel that religion is one of those things that should really be determined individually. Just because someone is raised in a certain denomination, doesn’t mean that it’s the best fit for them. On the boards alone there are tons of members who were raised in one religion yet consider themselves to be something completely different now that they’re adults and were able to form their own opinions. I don’t think that being exposed to all of these religious theories at such a young age is necessary. For those who plan to raise their children in the church (or the equivalent to), sure, but for those of us who are non-believers, I guess it just doesn’t really make a ton of sense to me. There’s nothing stopping our future kids from believing whatever they choose to believe. I just think that they should be able to fully grasp their religion of choice and make the decision for themselves when they reach a point in their lives when they are mature enough to do so.
So I ask my fellow atheists/agnostics, how do you plan on (or, how are you currently) raising your children regarding religion?
I agree that baptizing a child when you don't plan on raising him/her in a church seems odd.
My mom is very religious, and I grew up in a church, but my fiance and I don't like organized religion. On the other hand, my moral code does seem to align with Judeo-Christian morality (not necessarily everything they believe, but a lot of it). I also want my son to be free to choose whether he'd like to follow an organized religion or not.
I chose not to baptize him or to take him to church weekly, but, if my mom wants to take him to church on occasion, I let her. I don't see the harm in exposing him to it, and I think there are some lessons to be learned from the closeness and community of a church. Sometimes, I will go with my mom & sister to church services (say, on a holiday) if I am invited, because I think it is good to support my family & their beliefs, even if I don't agree.
When he gets to the age that he can understand what is going on (he is only 2 now), I may explain to him why I don' t agree with some things that are taught in the church, or tell him the things I do agree with. But I will support his decision to believe whatever he chooses.
Why not let the kids decide if they want to be baptized/if they want to join a church on their own? You guys don't have to baptize them to allow them to join a church later in life - they are always free to do that on their own. Pre-Baptizing also runs the risk of implying to the child that Christianity is the only "acceptable" religion since it's the only one you are considering preparing them for. (And for the record, I'm athiest, too!). While we will definitely be teaching our children about all the different religions, it's up to our future kids to decide on their own what they want to do with their spiritual beliefs. I think that allowing children to choose their own path is the best choice for us. It really bothers me when religious people raise their kids/brainwash them into believing things from birth. I'd rather let my kids learn about everything, and then choose for themsekves!
Not to be melodramatic, but my daughter had a very turbulent infancy, and there was a point where we weren't sure if she'd make it. So my Catholic parents had kind of a freakout where they were really upset at the thought of her not being baptized. When she was a few months old we baptized her and had a huge party after (we joke that it was like a wedding, it was that big). I was happy to do it for my parents/grandmother, and it ended up being a great occasion.
But beyond that, we are not actively introducing religion, nor do we attend church. I was forced to go to church as a child and it was just not a good experience. I would like her to come to her own conclusions, find her own path. So whatever she's open to and makes her happy is just fine with us. If she chooses to follow my husband in being an Atheist that's fine too.
I do think that personal accountability and charity is very important so that will never be left out of the equation. I just don't think it necessarily has to come from religion. Religious fanaticism does scare me somewhat.
I am raising my son to believe in god even though i don't. Although I don't believe in it personally i would love for my son to. I recognize religion as being very important, and to many people a comfort. If religion will help hold my children more accountable for their actions and be a comfort for them during grief or anything else then I am for it. I did not choose to not believe in god, I just don't, I can't help it. What my son figures out later will be up to him but I would like to bring him up with faith in god.
I'm very curious to hear the responses. FI and I were talking about this the other day. We are not planning on taking our kids to church or baptizing them.
I do like the aspect of going to church regularly that reminds you to be a good person, so I think we will plan to volunteer weekly (doesn’t necessarily have to be on Sunday) to give back and instill discipline and goodwill in our children.
I have mixed opinions on when to introduce religion to our future children. I think a child’s capacity to understand religion is very low when they are young, so I think we will wait until they are at least in pre-school. I plan on getting “Religion of the world” type books appropriate for their age at the time. Our families are religious, so I’m sure we will have to answer questions that come up.
As they get older, I would take them to various churches/temples/places of worship if they show an interest. I would also allow their grandparents to take them to church – if they wanted to go.
I got a lot out of the youth group I was part of in Jr. High and High school. I was drawn most to the volunteering and fellowship from it – not the religious aspect, so we plan to look for similar groups our kids could participate in if they want to.
i am an atheist, my ex and my fi are both catholics, although they do not educate him in the slightest about their beliefs, he is well aware that i do not believe in god. although he's only 5 he has decided he does believe in God and i am happy to allow him to feel this way. after the loss of my baby and my nana, he needed some way of connecting to them both. although i do not believe in God and Heaven it is ok for him to, after all the belief that our baby and nana are both in heaven is a much more comforting belief than the one i have. i am against taking him to the cemetary/graveyard, instead we set off balloons to heaven for them with pictures. if his belief progresses i will support him, have him baptised if he so wishes (in a few years) and will never dampen his beliefs to match mine. i no i sound hypocritical but whether i believe or not i can see the comfort in faith.
@stokieGal: You aren't being hypocritical! You are doing what's best for you son and helping him grieve in a healthy manor. Like you said, religion can be comforting. Loss is complicated, especially for children - so if this is what he wants to believe, it is fine!
@KatyElle: I was baptized as soon as I was born, because the doc's were convinced I was going to die. I was raised Christian, but hubs and I are both Atheists.
We aren't having kids, but if we were, I would plan to baptize them when they were babies. While I don't believe, everyone in my family does, and I feel like, if my child were to pass while still too young to understand religion and make choices, I would want them to go to Heaven, if there is such a place. My husband doesn't understand it, but he would back me up.(Its kind of hard to really put into words my feelings for this, but its just the way I feel)
Other than that, I would wait until they were old enough to ask about religion, and then allow them to explore as they see fit. I would reach out to people in whatever religion they wanted to learn about, and hopefully allow them to discover how each religion is different (got to church or the equivalent with them, particpate in certain things, learn the basics - but not personal preference). I would have absolutely no problem if they wanted to choose a religion, and/or wanted to go to church or the equivalent.
I would never want to force my beliefs on my children. I would want them to come to a conclusion on their own, based on their experiences. my parents allowed me to do that, and I think it was a great thing for them to do
FI and I actually just had this discussion.
I don't know if we'd call ourselves outright atheists (though I certainly lean that way more than he does), but we believe in something that's more complicated than I'd like to get into on the WB boards.
That being said, we definitely aren't Christian and will not be partaking in baptisms/raising our kids in any particular faith. I'm sure my family will throw the world's biggest fit (raised Catholic) but they don't really get a say. Should be fun (sarcasm).
@stokieGal: I think you are doing what is best for your child, and applaud you for not pushing your views on him, and letting him believe and experience what he wants. I think that every parent should allow their child the option. You are not being a hypocrite in any way. You are helping your son realize his own path in the best way you can :)
@MrsSl82be: I guess that was my attitude at the time as well. I didn't really see the harm in her being baptized. It made my family feel better at a really emotional time and was really for them, plus it was a really great day with my grandmother who recently passed. One of her favorite memories! She is smiling in every picture and my daughter looked adorable and was surrounded by all our friends and family.
SO and I have discussed this a number of times. I was raised Roman Catholic, and come from a very italian family<religion is very important to all of them>...I was forced to make my confirmation against my will, and feel religion was shoved down my throat, and to be totally blunt, at 10 yrs old I was thinking it was a huge crock of shit. SO and I both refuse to marry or have anything to do with the catholic church. Even though it upsets my parents, I've warned them a bunch of times already they we will not baptise our children and we will not be involved at all with religion.
The purpose of baptism is to cleanse the baby of original sin...How ridiculous is that? That otherwise, they'd go to hell? I feel like religion was created as a way to control mass amounts of people, and as a way to instill morals. I think that instilling morals can be done w/o religion. I'd feel like a fake if I gave in and baptised my baby, since it's something I'm staunchly against.
@KatyElle: Yup, I totally understand. Hubs and I are Godparents to our youngest nephew, I was honestly surprised first, then honored. His sister understands where we stand, but she knows my background, and knows I will help educate him in whatever direction he goes, no matter where it may take him. Regardless of our beliefs, I would never hinder a child's exploration, or push my beliefs on them
I honestly don't know what I believe in. I was raised catholic (did the whole CCD classes until I was 16 and confirmation), and my FI was raised christian but never attended church or went to any type of religious classes. I 100% disagree with the church on many topics, but I do believe in some type of higher power. We don't attend church other than for weddings and funerals.
With that said, we plan to baptize our future children in the Episcopal Church and send them to religious classes. What they choose after that is completely their decision, and I honestly don't care either way. Religion is such a personal choice and I don't want to make that decision for them, but I do want to give them some type of start.
thank you ladies, he is a very inquizative little boy and needs to know everything about anything, and although i do not believe i have enough understanding to answer his questions, anything i cannot answer my fi's very religious parents will answer for him i watch his face when he sends off his balloons, he does this now with more excitement than grief and it has become a tradition in our family. he talks to the moon too, thats where nana and baby sleep at night :)
i am a believer in if it makes him happier and does him no harm then why not, just like santa, the easter bunny and soon to be the tooth fairy, i don't believe in any of these either and i think in the mind of a child believing that someone is watching over him and looks after everyone in heaven is equally as forfilling in the mind of a child. (apologies i am not comparing God to Santa, just trying to explain)
my parents are religious, we were educated but not forced and i thank them for that, one of my brothers and i dont believe the other two of my brothers do, we were all given the right to make up our own minds
I'm an atheist and DH is agnostic. My parents are technically Anglican, but I was never christened and they never took me to church or anything. The school I went to used to have bible study and prayers at assemblies, and religious services for Christmas, but even before they phased religion out of everyday school life, I had decided I didn't believe in God.
DH was raised Catholic because his mother is Catholic, and he used to go to church with her, and went through Confirmation and everything, but she made it very clear that her children were free to believe what they wanted, and eventually DH decided he was agnostic and stopped going to church.
We will not be baptizing our children (although MIL will probably try and get us to) because we believe it's not our place to make that choice for them. Once they are old enough to start asking questions and grasp the concept of belief systems, we will give them ample opportunity to learn about different religions, and I will happily take them to religious services if they ask. But we will also stress the importance of critical thinking, morality and ethics, kindness, tolerance and open-mindedness, regardless of spirituality or lack thereof.
My plan is currently to expose my children to many different churches and religions. I don't think baptizing them is the way to go. I think that is a personal choice.
I don't believe in baptizing children. Baptism should be a personal choice a person makes when they're old enough to decide they want to follow in that religion...and children aren't equipped to make that decision.
@stokieGal: I think the fact that your parents didn't push has given you the way to guide him now. I think its so great that he now sends balloons and is HAPPY and not sad. And I love the fact that they sleep in the moon, that is just too adorable!!! You are doing things in much the same way I would, so I really think you are going to have a really well rounded little dude when he grows up :)
I am a firm atheist, raised (loosely) baptist. I do not believe in god, but I believe (mostly) in the morals that are set forth in the Christian bible.
My children are four and five and have no idea what religion is. We celebrate Christian holidays in a secular manner (e.g. Santa and the Easter Bunny, not birth of Jesus and resurrection). Their first time in a church will be this Friday when I take them to a Catholic wedding. I am sure they will have questions. My plan is to explain that some people believe that a story is real. That we don't believe that the stories are real, but rather that they are just stories to teach us things. Like we read The Boy Who Cried Wolf to learn that we shouldn't scream for help when we don't need help. The people who believe that the stories are real also believe that you need to go to church to meet with people who believe the same way. Momma doesn't believe, so we don't go to church.
As my kids get older, I will teach them theology and they will have the option to choose a religion, if they want. Or not. But I certainly will not baptize them before they are of an age to knowingly choose to believe.
thanks for sharing your view on it, I know we won't all agree on baptism, but I hope this thread will stay lighthearted, even if we can't all agree
Both DH and I atheists and plan on raising our children without religion . That is to say, they won't be baptised/christened but we'll educate them on different religions and will take them to church if they request.
I was christened to placate my grandmother but was raised completely without religion otherwise. DH was raised religious but now finds too many faults with christianity.
We are both agnostics, on the "we'd need a heck of a lot of proof" side of things. FI was made to go to church pretty much through high school (although his folks are cool with his non-belief now). I had a bad experience at church when I was younger, and then my family sort of never picked the habit of regular attendance back up. We probably won't be taking our kids to church, but we certainly will be talking to our kids about religious stuff as it comes up. I suppose I could see attending a Unitarian Universalist church at some point, which is super non-judgmental, supportive, and progressive.
Ultimately, if our kids decide that they want to believe in God, that's fine. I have to be honest, though: while I support their own path of discovery, I would have a VERY difficult time with their friends' families attempting to convert them or whatever, especially to fundamentalist sects. I guess I can hope that by the time we get to that point we'll have had a number of discussions with our kid about why we believe what we believe, so that he or she will be able to handle "Your mommy and daddy are going to hell" with a grain of salt.
Thanks for the replies everyone! I'll be showing DH this thread when we get home. :)
I agree with your sentiments on this topic. However, your children will be exposed to religion whether you like it or not, so why not give them as much information about as many religions as you see fit so they are prepared for their decision later in life. As you said yourself, you were exposed at a young age but still managed to form your own opinion, separate of your parents. If you had never learned about atheism (as an example) you wouldn't have known to pursue it in more detail and question your religious upbringing. I think one of the reasons that *some* people are so staunch in any one belief is because they've never been exposed to something different, or in other words, they've never thought to question what they've always known. So I say, give them as much info as they want/need/can get and let them know you're open to discussing it with them, whatever they choose.
@UpstateCait: Is your DH an atheist or an agnostic? It would make more sense for an agnostic to baptise their child, because many agnostics believe in a higher power, but not a particular organized religion. If your DH is truely an atheist, he needs to ask himself why he is considering getting his child baptized. Is it for family? (like previous posters) Is it for society? Is it because a part of him believes or wants to believe and therefore he doesn't want to risk not baptizing?
Many religions believe that a child will still be taken into heavan, even if they are not baptized.
I am agnostic and my fiance is atheist, we were both raised in religious families. My mom was loosely Nazarene and my dads family was strongly baptist, so there was a blend of beliefs in my household anyways. My parents taught me a great deal about Christianity, but never forced it on me. I was always free to choose, and it wasn't always easy growing up not believing in traditional images of 'god'. No matter how you raise a child, their beliefs will be challenged by the world, so be ready for that either way. I think personally for me I want to educate my children on religion so that when the main stream religious population does come to their attention they wont be blind sided and they can choose to believe what they wish. Growing up I still knew a great deal about peoples faith, all different kinds or religions and their practices, I did so much research trying to find something that fit for me or clicked. So I grew up with an understanding of people that way, but also an understanding on how to defend why I chose to believe or not believe. You shouldn't (in my opinion!!!!!! not trying to offend anyone) raise a child to be uneducated about this topic, they become desensitized as well as slightly naive and wont be able to tell someone why they chose what they did.
I certainly wouldn't baptize my kids, simply because I wouldn't want to confuse them and seem like I was making double standards. My two older sisters were baptized, I was not. At the appropriate age my mom asked me if I wanted to be and I said no. So honestly what I would do is let your kids know what that option is, and in the terms of Christianity what it means for them if they do choose to have it done. Let them be in charge of that choice when the time is right. I was asked at 13, the age to allow them to choose is up to you of course! I agree that you just need a strong moral balance with children, and sometimes other people may criticize and say you aren't offering that, so always be firm in your choices as a parent.
Sorry I wrote such a novel here!! lol I suppose I am highly opinionated on this topic :)
I just thought I would share my view on baptism too - just for another perspective. In the church I was raised in, baptism was a promise to the child by the parents and church congregation to support the child in their spiritual growth and to be good examples for that child. Confirmation was for the child to affirm their faith after study and makes it them "offical" members of the church.
So, by this definition, we won't be baptisizing our children. However, because baptism is different for FI's catholic family, I wouldn't be opposed to letting them baptize our children for the reasons KatyElle shared.
From a very young age, I started educating my children about ALL religions and myths, starting with the various creation myths.
They know how I feel, but I've never pressured them about what they believe. They went to church with my grandmother and even attended vacation bible school and we've always kept an open dialogue about the different religions and what it's like for us to not have religion. My daughter is 24, she is college to be a nurse midwife and she is agnostic. My oldest son is 19 and in college. He is an atheist, however, he is wavering on changing his major from Chemistry to Theology. My youngest son is 14, he flips back and forth in his beliefs. At the moment, he says he is agnostic.
I can still remember a time when my youngest son was at bible school with his siblings and cousins. There came a time to do a group prayer and my nephew called out my son and said his family was atheist, so he couldn't pray with everyone else. My brave little boy got into a debate with his cousin right then in front of everyone. He ended it with, "whatever Taylor, if God is real, then Zeus is real." I found that so profound for a 5 year old.
I am pretty much atheist and FI is Catholic. I come from a mixed Catholic and Jewish background, but mostly had secular holidays and no religious upbringing. I am comfortable with Catholicism and agreed with FI that if he does all of the work involved, our children can be raised Catholic. He will need to bring them to Sunday school, go to church with them, etc. I'm fine going on holidays, but I'm not going to participate weekly.
He really feels that kids need to be brought up with some religion, and that later they can choose what to believe. For the most part I see his point. I was raised with no religion and felt like there were certain ways in which I never fit it.
But my biggest hurdle is baptism. I do NOT believe in original sin and I don't think I can stand up there and go along with the concept that an innocent baby has anything sinful about them. If there is a heaven, hell, limbo, etc, I in no way think that God would banish an infant to anything other than heaven. And the Vatican has even changed their stance and said that they no longer believe unbaptised babies go automatically to limbo, they believe God makes the choice. And in my mind that means a baby does not need to be baptised.
@Future MrsB: We had the baptism planned out beforehand with what we wanted and didn't want the priest to say. So there was no mention of sin, Satan, limbo, hell, whatever. The whole thing took about 10 minutes, family members stood up and said a "Welcome to the world" prayer and that was it. It doesn't have to be the super old school way most people think of. Just putting that out there.
@KatyElle: That's good to know. Thanks :).
I'm athiest, and my SO is an agnostic Jew. We don't plan on baptizing any children we may have. SO would like our children to have a bat/bar mitzvah, but other than that, they won't go to temple. If they ever have any questions about religion, I'll definitely answer them, and when they get to be a little older, we plan on teaching them the basic tenets of different religions. If they choose to be religious, that's fine. But it will be their own choice, not something imposed on them.
I'm pretty much agnostic and have been since HS (used to be atheist). My husband is more or less the same but was raised Episcopal. We had our son baptized b/c my husband wanted to "just in case" which I didn't agree with but whatever...I kept the peace. Looking back, my husband doesn't think it was such a big deal and he doesn't think you need to be baptisized but this was but years ago, when he felt differently. We also had our "dedicated" first at a Unitarian Church we had planned on attending but we ended up not for various reasons. Five years ago, we really started studying the Buddhist religion and have since converted, if that's the right word. We plan to raise our son Buddhist. But we don't teach our son that Buddha sees you, etc...the way most religions do about God. We just want him to grow up feeling connected with something spiritually and Buddhism was the only religion that made sense and felt right. We also love the Buddhist ethics. My son, when he prays, prays to our fathers who have passed away and to the "spirit" of Budddha. I know what I'm writing might not make sense since we seemed to have tried various spiritual/religious paths, and some might be offended, but it makes sense to us and it got us to where we are now, Buddhists. Hope this helps some... Good luck!
Both DH and I consider ourselves agnostic and we haven't really talked in depth about how to raise our future kids from a religious standpoint. As it stands, i don't feel the need to or see the point in baptizing our kids. I don't think DH does either. And we won't have the issue of our families wanting to. My mother is technically protestant, but really not very religious at all, so i know she won't care. My father is muslim and he may try to force his views on us and tell us what we should do, but it doesn't bother me what he says as we simply raise our kids as we see fit no matter what he says. DH's parents are Catholic and attempted to raise him as Catholic, but like you, it didn't work and he got fed up with one day and made this clear to his parents and he says they basically understand now that it is not for him. They don't in any way continue to try to make him catholic. I don't foresee our kids being baptized as an issue either. I get the impression that they will just be happy we have kids and that's that!
Now that you brought up this topic though, i think i will make a point to discuss it with DH, even though i can say with about 99.9% certainty that we are on the same page and therefore see no need to baptize or teach religion to our kids. I think we will do the best we can by demonstrating and teaching good morals and respect. And like you, if they grow up and decide for themselves they believe, i will support them of course.
Well, we haven't discussed it really. FI wasn't really raised with any religion and is an atheist now, I was raised as a christian and am an atheist now. I am roughly 99% sure that FI won't want to baptize any future children, and I know I don't want to. We might teach them about various religions, because we find it interesting ourselves. Any future children will of course have the choice to be a part of a religion or not, whatever they want. I know we won't be forcing any beliefs on them like my parents forced on me as a child though.
DH is atheist (raised Catholic) and I'm.... well... let's just say I don't agree with organized religion.
Personally, I plan to raise my kids the same way I was raised. My parents were never super religious, but both consider themselves Christian. They stopped attending church when they had kids because they didn't want to raise us in a belief that wasn't our own. We grew up knowing that we were welcome to go to a church or religious function with a friend if we liked. My parents raised us to think critically and to make up our own minds about what we believe. I chose to get myself baptized when I was 13 during my stint as a regular Christian. I no longer wish to be a part of that faith, but I don't regret getting baptized.
DH and I have already agreed that we will not be baptizing our kids and that we intend to teach them about all religions and allow them to choose for themselves as well.
This is something that DH and I discuss alot. DH is Christian Orthodox while I am Athiest. We have decided that we will raise our children to understand what we both believe and allow our child to pick themself.
My personal view is that I would not teach any religion in depth to my young child. I think it's good to be taught about different religions, but I think it should be done when a person has a good grasp of logic and reality. Maybe children after 14 or so. I would agree with you you should not baptise a child if you don't plan to raise him/her in that religion.
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