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Oh this sucks! I'm wondering why he started emailing her in the first place? And why did he hide it from you? You are so right that this is unacceptable! I don't know if I could ever trust my BF again if he did something like this.. If you want to give him another chance I think it's necessary you guys really talk about this, even when you think there's nothing more to say. The only way to build up that trust again, is to have him explain exactly why he did it and to have him understand just how much he hurt you! love
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
I think you need more details. Was it just someone he "met" online, or someone he knows outside of digital fantasyland? If it is just an online flirtation, I think it takes some serious discussion, but I wouldn't give up on the relationship over it. It is unbelevably common for people to take fantasy to their computers. It's easy, it's free, and it is not technically cheating. It would be nice if our SOs did not fantasize about other women, but that is extremely unlikely.
All men have fantasies and computers have made it easy to connect with people (and honestly, it might not even really be a girl- a photo is not the same as live and in person, and lots of men go online and fake the female thing). Could also be a woman who is sitting home lonely and pretending she is someone else. Again, for a lot of people, it is just a fantasy, or way of taking fantasy a step further, but it CAN be someone harmless and doesn't mean he would cheat on you.
You can read articles online about this activity.
Now, if this is someone he knows, or someone that he planned to meet, that is a whole different ballgame. Fantasy is one thing, but actually setting up meeting timees, or communicating in this manner with someone in "real life" those are different issues altogether and you shouldn't tolerate that.
Thanks ladies, it's great to be reassured I'm not overreacting.
@menobride, the girl is someone he knows. He met her before we started dating, when he went to the UK. He told me he kissed her once but they didn't date.
Oh, i feel sick every time i think about it! We did have a good long talk about it and I feel satisfied with the conversation, but I really think he's damaged my trust in him and am not sure how to react. If I just kind of forgive him and get over it, I'm worried he might do it again. I don't want to be suspicious of him all the time. Eurgh!
Argh, different story totally.
I believe in second chances...but tred carefully for awhile. When this happened to me, my SO was so very obviously remorseful, said he had no idea how much damage he would cause, and opened up his compnter for me to look at at anytime. It took a little time, but I did get past it. You will too, as long as he stops and is sincere about not doing it again.
ls18: sorry this is happening to you.
His behaviour is, in my opinion, just as cheating, because it was more than one email and he put a lot of thoughts in these flirtatious words - it wasn't just a "spur of the moment" thing...
While he may be sorry and intend to never do it again, I can understand that your trust is shaken right now, it's completely normal.
I tend to think that, when forgiven easily, people tend to go back to their behaviour (not everyone, but in general) because they just don't get how much you've been hurt. If it were me, I would tell him that I am beyond hurt right now and need to think, and that I can't do that with him there. Then I'd leave for a few hours or days.
Not to hurt him; not to play. But to really give myself some space to think, and to give him some space to think as well about how much his behaviour is unacceptable and that there are consequences to his decisions/actions. Something big like that is not solved through one discussion only, and he needs to really understand how much he's hurt you.
When you think, think about what has to happen for you to be able to trust him again. Then discuss that with him when you're through thinking.
I'm with @egb.
You need time to think and he needs time to be remorseful. I can't see why he would do something like that? Are they similar to love notes? I would be just as confused and upset as you. It's definitely something he needs to either end, or open himself up to you about everything he's done and will do (as in allowing you to check his gmail although he could always create another alias). He needs to build that trust back.
My concern is if he's being honest with everything and not still hiding stuff. You really need to have a honest to heart talk with him and see how best you both can move forward.
If you do want to stay with him, he needs to earn your trust back. BIG TIME. And WHY was he doing this anyways?! Especially with someone he's met and kissed before. To me, that's more than just someone he met online...this is a real live girl he's friends plus flirty with. You have to respect someone to love them, and i don't think this is very respectful. It's sneaky, deceitful, and wrong. He's emotionally cheating on you, girl.
Oh girly...I'm so so sorry. I've been there. Exactly there. Like, RIGHT there. lol
I couldnt decide what hurt me most, the lying or the fact that he was doing it in the first place. I dont know if I should share this all, because I dont want you to not be able to move past it if and when you feel it's time, but I moved past it. And it happened again. And again. And after a 4 year relationship where I said "one more and I'm done" i had to be done. I didnt want to be, and if I hadn't set the rule down for that before, but since I said it, I had to do it. For me.
I would say if you do decide to forgive and are able to "forget" so to speak (in that you arent bringing it up all the time, which I think can be damaging as well - its what I did) you should set a boundary for yourself. Like, if this happens one more time, I HAVE to be done. For me. And when you decide that, REALLY decide that. So if, God forbid, you end up where I did...you have the set rule to walk away. Its the only thing that got me to walk away. I think by doing it, my guy showed me, very very clearly, that he wasnt ready for the commitment. He wasn't ready to be moving forward with me when he was looking back on them. I realized that, and needed to walk away.
I believe people can walk away from this and not do it again, so please dont read me wrong on that! But you have to take care of you and what you deserve. And sometimes we can be our own worst enemies at times like this! Allow him the grace and forgiveness that you need to in order to move forward if thats what you need to do - and I agree with the other girls, give it some time. Not to play games, like they said, but to sort it out yourself and get the peace of mind you need...but to also give him the time to think over what happened and learn you wont simply accept that!
Sorry this is long! It probably hit pretty close to home. Im rooting for you guys! Forgiveness is good, but do please set boundaries!
I totally see your situation and how it can be frustrating. Its hard when someone damages the trust you might have in them. I would say try not to dwell on it if you guys have been together so long and have talked about it and you think you are satisfied with the conversation. But by all means don't let it go completely unpunished. He has to know that your trust in him is damaged and that he can't do somehting like this again or you don't think that you could tolerate it anymore. You just need to be firm with him in knowing that he hurt you and if he does it again then it might be over. I hope it all works out for you!
So I'm not proud to admit this, but I've been in this situation, only reversed. FI and I were going through a rough patch and I was doing some heavy flirting with another guy and got caught. I'm ashamed of what I did, and there's really nothing I can say about it except that it happened, there was never any intention of it moving beyond flirtation and when he confronted me I was horribly embarrassed. After a lot of talk we decided to move forward and haven't looked back since. (This was several years ago)
We are all human and have urges that can sometimes be difficult to ignore. I think it's important to assess if this is part of a pattern of behaviour or if he maybe just made a (really) stupid decision as we are all prone to doing sometimes.
The only way you can move on from this is if you honestly believe that he made a mistake and are prepared to really move on - you can't be dragging it up again and again or your relationship will never get past it. If you don't feel like you can do that, then you guys need to have a serious talk.
I've been in your position almost exactly. Except this girl was my roommate (eek). I FULLY understand how you're hurting, and the sense of betrayal you're feeling. That was the only time that I have ever screamed at someone in my entire life. We were VERY close to a break up at that point, but after several long discussions and promises, we were able to move on together. He was no longer "allowed" to talk to her, and he allowed me to keep tabs on his mysapce (yes, myspace.. this was two years ago after all.. ha) for as long as I needed. The great news is now we're happier than ever. We're getting married in less than a month, and we're madly in love. I trust him completely. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, there is hope. It will take time to repair the broken trust, but if he's truly remorseful and quits the behavior, I definitely think you can move on from this and be happy. :)
Oh my! I'm so sorry that this happened/you found this. I would be really, really, really (x028084234) upset.
You do have every right to be upset, it's not right at all and you should be hurt and he should have to earn your trust back.
But at the same time, I'm sure he feels horrid for betraying you.
I did the same thing once. I was dating this guy, and we'd been together for about a year. Well we were fighting a lot and it was a really strenuous time in our relationship. I was upset at him for the way he was treating me and the things he was picking arguments about. So I developed a close relationship with this guy I'd been working with for a year or so. He and I would talk about my boyfriend and the stuff going on, and he would always cheer me up, making me laugh and we had such a great time together.
Well my boyfriend at the time was really upset because he knew I wanted to be with Alex more than him and yada yada yada. Well although I had reason to be upset with my then-boyfriend, I also shouldn't have gone behind his back to be with Alex at work and talk to him about our relationship.
Sooo my boyfriend was really upset and distrusting and all this, and I felt horrible. It wasn't right.
So anyway, the point of my story is that, yes, what he did was wrong and he should have talked to you the moment they started talking or if she initiated contact or whatever, also look at it from his side. He probably feels awful now for hurting you. So just make sure you don't act out of anger - by all means be hurt and let him know that he hurt you deeply, but also, let him know you still love him, and you want this relationship - if he's willing to stop and promise that you will be the ONLY one EVER for him.
just my perspective anyway.. I hope all gets better soon ((hugs))
incredibly sketchy. i'm so sorry you're going through this...if i was in this situation i dont think i would have the strength to stay. if you do stay with him be sure he knows the seriousness of his mistake and that its not likely to be tolerated again.
Thank-you so much everyone. I really appreciate all of your comments and they've helped me to think through the issue.
It's hard because I love him so much and I genuinely am 100% happy with him and our relationship - he's the man of my dreams and treats me so well. He's always there for me, is affectionate, communicative, and supportive. That makes this incident all the more devastating - I'm so open and honest with him about everything, and to think that all this time when I've been feeling so secure in our relationship he's been doing something like this!
I don't think it's a reflection of any issues in our relationship, rather, I think it's a reflection of his issues. SO is a kind of Heathcliff type - tall, dark and mysterious. When I met him loads of other girlsl were attracted to him and he loved flirting with them all, but could never take it further. I think for him, he enjoyed being desired by women more than he enjoyed actually having a sexual relationship with them. I am the first woman he's really been able to have a serious, mature relationship with.
I think these emails are a kind of throwback to that kind of behaviour - flirting for the sake of flirting. The trouble is that while I can try to understand his behaviour and what it means, I absolutely will not put up with it. I consider it emotional cheating. I'm hurt because this is no surprise to him - he's always known that within our relationship that's a line that can't be crossed.
SO has really listened to me and actually cried when he saw how much he'd hurt me. He says that he is deeply sorry and that now that he's seen the consequences of his behaviour he could never do this again as it's not in him to be cruel to me and he can't stand to be the cause of my unhappiness.
This means that all he do is promise it won't happen again, and I just have to trust him. As many of you have pointed out, I'll never really know whether he does this again, and I don't want to be monitoring him and suspicious of him all the time.
I'm not sure how he can rebuild the trust. It's frightening to read that some people do stop this kind of behaviour, but others continue. I'm not sure how to tell what SO will do.
Sorry this is so long, thanks again for listening!
This is really shaddy... Is there a way to convince him not to talk to this girl anymore or to openly let you see everything (email, phone, facebook...records and all)?
Future hubs had a couple ex-skanks that wouldn't leave him be when we first got together and finally after he set them straight telling them to sod off bc he found his soulmate... they stopped txting him. Had they kept, I was going to send them rather nasty facebook/myspace messages telling to go away or else... A scorned woman could do some real damage to someone's reputation on the net. ;)
It's not the same situation but getting a bit of honesty and a free pass to your FI's accounts will help you feel better. Also have a good sit down talk. Get it all out and make sure that he that he wants to remain with you. Make sure he's not just saying he wants you but is serious. It might hurt but it's better than finding out right before you get married that he's screwing around.
I had a boyfriend of over three years that I found doing this. It was a last straw for me.
He did marry a girl about a year and a half after we broke up. Just two weeks ago, she and I were having a chat about her pending divorce and his cheating antics again.
I'm sorry you went through this! But it's good to hear that at least he seems remorseful about it. I know a few other girls shared their story, but I'll share mine because it just sounds so similar.
I was in an awesome relationship with my guy and we were literally head over heels for each other (and openly shared that). Then he was at work one night and I was on his computer and same thing happened. Up pops his logged in gmail and low and behold are these emails. I felt sick to my stomach, cried for awhile and debated leaving right then. But I stayed and talked to him about it when he got home. He was so sorry and upset that he hurt me and claimed that he would never do it again (BTW, this was literally like 2 weeks after I found out my dad was cheating on my mom and cried to my SO about it and he said he would never do anything like that). We made up and I agreed to give him a second chance. But I was always so skeptical that he wasn't telling me the truth so I found myself constantly checking his email account.
Fast forward a few months. I find an email in his trash folder that he had been sending to a different girl. At that point I saw that my little slap on the wrist had absolutely no effect on him and I would have to take bigger action if I truly wanted change. It certainly wasn't easy and I had to talk myself through it the entire time, but I decided to break up with him. He said all the things your SO did and begged for me not to go. He told me that he never had any intention of actually meeting with or doing anything with these girls, and he only liked the attention that he got from them. But I knew that if I didn't show him that I could actually be ok without him and he could actually lose me, then I would never be treated the way I wanted to be. He really was the perfect guy for me (he always treated me awesome - like really awesome - and was really open about everything else) and I wanted him, but an honest, non-emailing-other-girls him. So we broke up and I didn't talk to him for months. He certainly did not just walk away. He tried and tried to let me take him back and he really got his act together in so many ways. I made him show me that he really wanted to be with me and only me before I even considered taking him back.
Well, that was awhile ago and we are currently engaged. I couldn't be happier. Don't get me wrong, I still have my doubts every now and then and am really trying to get over the urge to check his email. But whenever he catches me looking he proudly tells me I can check all I want and I won't find anything sketchy. Trusting him again has been a slow process and I made a point to say I wanted a long engagement so that I could really see how the next few years go before committing to this.
I think the most important thing is to really set boundaries and let him know you won't sit around and tolerate this behavior. He won't change if he has no reason to. If he truly has feelings for you and doesn't want to lose you, he won't just walk away and give up. I think you will be doing your relationship with him a favor by dealing with this now.
I hope everything works out for you! And I hope you get your happy ending like I did :)
My husband and I went through something similar before we were engaged. I stumbled onto some rather sexually suggestive emails at lunch one day and confronted him with them after work. While I certainly didn't enjoy the experience I learned a lot about myself and am proud of the strength I had developed in a relatively short period of time. We worked through it and I actually felt more secure afterwards because I knew I was strong enough to leave if need be. We are now happily married, I rarely even think of it and I absolutely trust him.
Good luck working through this patch. I don't really have any advice, I just wanted to let you know of another success story.
I completely agree with Princessleia... In sharing her story, she is giving the same advice I was... I saw my parents go through this about 10 years ago and they are happily together today.
I, myself dealt with unacceptable behavior the same way, and when we got back together, we had 4 good years before I decided to split, but for other reasons.
In some extreme cases where something is completely unacceptable, discussion is not enough. The guy sees: ok I did something wrong, we talked, I shed a few tears, and it's all good now. He doesn't GET that he could actually lose you over this until this happens. As Princessleia said, if he really, truely loves you, he'll get his act straight and try to get you back and really know that you will not tolerate that kind of behavior. Otherwise, what's his motivation to change?
Hi hive,
Thanks so much for all your advice - you give wise counsel! Just wanted to update you.
SO and I have spent the weekend having serious discussions. I have made it very clear how badly he has hurt me, and why it's hurt me, and I feel confident that he heard and understood me. I've explained that he's damaged my trust in him and he's accepted that it will take time for him to rebuild it, and that this is his responsibility, not mine. We clarified and confirmed the boundaries in our relationship. I've explained to SO that if he crosses that boundary, he betrays me and our relationship, and this will not only wound me deeply, but probably be the end of the relationship. I won't accept that behaviour.
I didn't leave him for any period of time, because based on his reaction, I feel confident that he has understood the consequences of his actions. It just didn't feel right to leave so I trusted my gut.
We've been talking about our future and marriage for years now, but this has spurred him to start talking about engagement and a wedding in detail. I've sort of been a 'waiting bee' for a while now, as we both know we'll get married, and talk about it openly. I think this has suddenly made him realise that he cannot take us for granted. Last night he took me out to dinner and said he hopes we'll marry in the Spring of next year (October here in Australia). I will be taking it slowly but am hoping it will all work out! Thanks again everyone xo
I hope so much for you that he will change and be who you want and know him to be. I'm also scared for you because I had a similar situation with a boyfriend of 4 years. I found out he had been communicating with other women online. I caught him in the lie 3 separate times, each time he'd cry, plead for forgiveness, tell me he'd never do it again and how much he loved me, he even went to therapy. I bought it and took him back twice. In truth he did love me, and I knew that, but the 3rd time, something in me snapped and I knew what we had built was broken beyond repair. I know he still does this to his current girlfriend and he will most likely never stop. It's scary to believe you know someone through and through and then find out he has this whole other secret side that not even his family knows about. Please be careful and guard your heart. Ending that relationship was one of the most painful things I've ever gone through, but it allowed me to leave a bad situation and find my wonderful husband and I couldn't be happier. Listen to your gut, even if it hurts your heart. Best of luck to you.
My BF and I had a similiar situation happen early in our relationship... and the again 2 more times... all with hsi ex-fiance. Honestly, those emails have made it hard for us to move forward because he promises he's different but he defied my trust at least 3 times in regards to the same type of situation. Good luck!!!!
I'm really really sorry you are going through this. I think there are a few problems here:
(1) He never confessed to you. He got caught, and then he was sorry. He wasn't honest, or sorry, before that.
(2) This kind of behavior is just wrong. And he knows it. And yet he did it anyway, out of a selfish desire to flirt or be wanted or whatever.
I know this may be hard to hear, but I would think long and hard about the kind of man your'e dating. Is he a cheater? Try to answer that question really honestly. Maybe you don't think he is. And if so, stay in the relationship. But I think, if you want to be in this relationship, you have to make clear that you have a zero tolerance policy going forward. No impropriety, no appearance of impropriety. The rule for him should be that if there's even a hint that you might be hurt by his behavior, he needs to bring it up to you and make sure you are totally comfortable.
Good luck hon. I know this must be hard.
Everyone makes mistakes. It is what they do with the mistake after the fact, and what their behavior is moving forward.
Yeah I mean, I think you're making a huge mistake. You don't go from finding out he was cheating (which is what he was doing) to planning a wedding. That is the WRONG way to deal with this and if you're smart you'll put a stop to it right now. I know planning a wedding sounds really exciting, but I promise the excitement will die down and you will be with a cheater who now thinks he can get away with it.
You don't have to end the relationship, but stop all talk of a wedding. Work on the problem which is him violating your trust. If I were you, I would even hire a private investigator just to find out if there was anything else going on. Once you feel comfortable and I mean like in a year or so, then you can start planning the wedding, that is, if you're both still interested.
so, after reading this, i'm going to be completely honest, I snooped thru my FI's gmail account. no my most shining moment.
however, i found some chat records that were unsettling. he's had four or five conversations over the past year with a girl. the conversations are mostly normal convos, but at some point he makes a sexual innuendo, and its clear from what he said that he has slept with her in the past. he's also "counseling" her on feeling alone and unattractive. it is also clear that she's stopped by his office (where all three of us are in grad school) within the past month to say hi. the saying hi thing wouldn't be weird, but he's never mentioned her to me before, ever.
the conversations started before we got engaged and have continued after.
all of it is pretty innocent, but its driving me crazy. should i fess up to having snooped, and then ask him about all of this? i'm really not sure what to do or what i would even say to him.
ls18 and everyone else, I'm sorry you are going through this. I don't have much constructive to add but just wanted to say I feel your pain. I also snooped (not intentially at first) and it wasn't my proudest moment either. My FI was in contact with one of his ex-girlfriends a lot more than I knew about and while the conversations weren't about getting back together they were really friendly and flirty. The part that hurt the most was that a lot of them happened while I was living overseas and we talked a lot about being open and honest with one another.
Everything has been resolved now but every now and then I remember and it still hurts. I hope everyone is able to work through this either with their current partner or alone. hugs all around.
I don't like the excuse "he is so sorry he hurt me" no..he is sorry he feels so shitty after getting caught.
I am divorced b/c my ex cheated and I was the one who divorced him.
From what I went through, I would seriously look at his life. Has he cheated before on a serious girlfriend? Ever? This is imho borderline cheating b/c she is a real girl, one he did date and one he did smooch.
Has he ever lied to you before? Seriously, search everything. With my ex H, there were teeny little signs. He had cheated on his previous fiancee before and I should have taken that as a huge red flag.
Just tread ahead lightly, maybe even consider counseling too.
One thing, he should (with you watching him) send her an email telling her he is 1)engaged to be married and 2)that he was wrong and is wishing to break off all contact with her. I think knowing this is key to any possibility of moving on. Go check out Dr. Harley's principles on how to affair proof a marriage at www.marriagebuilders.com . That's a great site loaded with great tips.
I actually think the real red flag isn't the fact of these emails but that you say your relationship is going great.
When a relationship is in a difficult period, a person is in a lot of stress, it's fairly normal for them to succumb to temptation of an inappropriate conversation or email or two and IMO not a huge deal as long as certain lines aren't crossed and can be forgiven. (I know I'd forgive an inappropriate email if we've been fighting like dogs and cats for months.)
But someone who flirts inappropriately when not under stress and wants attention from others when not disatisfied with your relationship it's a big problem. Either he will always cheat no matter the circumstance or he has been under stress/disatisfied and you just have no idea - and either way that doesn't mean good things for the relationship.
It's good to hear that even though you had to go through all this drama and stress, he's now seeing things in the same fashion as you are. Maybe this was just the wake-up call he needed to get off his butt and realize if he doesn't take your relationship seriously or propose soon, that he'll loose you.
Plus bellenga has some really good advice that I would follow if I had the same issue with my future hubs.
Good Luck with all things wed in the future! =)
I'm not going to comment on whether what he did was "right" or "wrong" but rather on context. I didn't see the emails, but do have extensive overseas experience and am marrying a guy I met in France. In France and Brazil, where I have spent the most time, it is extremely normal to end an email with "bisous" or "beijos" (kisses in French/Portuguese respectively) as just a friendly signature. Girls would write this in emails to other girls or to guys - guys are much less likely to write it to girls or other guys. It might even be offensive NOT to write this at the end of a letter/email/online chat, or to say it at the end of a phone conversation.
So, if your SO's friend is from another culture, I would just suggest to take this into consideration, that perhaps she didn't mean it flirtatiously.
Anyway, it sounds like you guys have talked this out extensively - hope it gets better and I'm sorry that you're going through this stress! No fun :(
Wow, I am so sorry you're going through this! I'm with the previous posters who said that right now, he's definitely sorry he got caught. I know that it's difficult to go through this and you just want things to go back the way they were, but I would be very careful in this situation. It's so easy to just believe that he's so sorry he hurt you, but would he have continued this if you hadn't caught him?
I love Bellenga's advice to have him write an email to this girl letting her know that he's engaged and that he's severing all contact, with you watching him do that. I think that's one of the biggest things that has to happen to begin rebuilding your trust.
Again, really sorry this is happening, and I hope everything works out.
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Hello ladies,
I've had a very upsetting day and need some advice. SO and I have been together for 6 years, living together for 3. We have a strong, committed, happy relationship.
Today I was using his computer. I went to gmail, and the computer automatically loaded his gmail inbox screen. Staring right at me was an email from a girl I've never heard of, with the subject "My dream." I opened it and saw a series of about 6 emails back and forth between my SO and this girl. The emails were very fliratious. The girl signed off with kisses. I know my SO well and could tell he put a lot of thought into the emails, they were very carefully crafted.
I felt sick and took some deep breaths. SO was out and when he came home I spoke to him about it. Whilst this isn't technically cheating, I feel very hurt. They are flirtatious and he would not have written them if I was sitting beside him. He hasn't told me anything about this girl or the emails, so he's sort of hidden it from me. I consider this kind of behaviour to be completely unacceptable in our relationship. I certainly don't send other men emails like this, and i have no desire to, as I'm happy with SO. This is not a sudden new rule, he has known the boundaries of our relationship all along and certainly knew that this would hurt me.
SO was very apologetic, told me he's sorry, he loves me, he won't do it again, and is very guilty and upset that he's hurt me. He said he met the girl overseas years ago and kissed her once but has no desire for her.
I'm not sure what to do. I love him and this hasn't changed that, however, I'm extremely hurt, disappointed and shocked that he has done this, especially as he knew it would hurt me. Whilst I love him and can accept his flaws, I can't accept this behaviour. I don't know how I can trust him that he won't do something like this again.
Sorry for my long post, thanks for reading. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this? I looked up the girl on facebook, which was very silly as she's gorgeous and it just made me feel sick in my stomach.