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I'm not familiar with Missouri laws, but in Florida, you could have her sign and notarize the document in the presence of two witnesses. Make sure in the agreement it states that she is not under any duress and she is signing it freely and voluntarily. Nothing is absolutely secure in the law (that's why we have lawyers - to find the loopholes!) but that is probably as airtight as you can get doing it on your own. Just make sure it is filed with the Court! Hope this helps...
You need to go on the Missouri state bar website. There should be a section that talks about lawyers that do probono or reduced price legal work, maybe a legal aid lawyer section. Contact one of these attorneys and work with them. You are going to have to see a lawyer about this. It's worth the $$ and hardship that it will take you to pay it to get it fixed right. Good luck
I guess I should specify that I actually live in IL. I live on the MO state line just 20 mins outside of St Louis so I always list my area as STL.
@August15Bride - It sounds like you may have experience with similar situations. Thanks for the advice!
@KateMW - I wasn't aware that you could find pro bono / legal aid lawyers for family court issues. I thought they were only available for criminal court matters.
I totally feel your pain- my FH has a 5 yr old daughter and a seriously unstable ex. She's gone so far as to enroll his daughter in a private school without telling him and then demanding he pay for half of it! This is all in TN so I'm not sure how the laws differ but he got a lawyer for less than what you were quoted and that's covered court once and follow up consultation. I would definitely document EVERYTHING- every phone call, every text, any contact whatsoever. And get a lawyer- most will do a free consultation to start just to get a feeling for the situation and let you know what kind of options you have.
Your best bet would be to find a pro bono lawyer, but that might be tough because although you can't afford the $2500 fee, it's a bit different than being destitute and facing eviction or imprisonment. But still, try that route. Also, lawyers fees vary widely, see if there's another that will cost less. It sounds like a pretty straightforward agreement for most family lawyers, and $2500 seems like a lot.
However, if none of those options work out, draft it yourself. Google for sample contracts. There are a few important features you want to include. First, you want to state the reason that both of you are signing. It's called consideration. So it'd go something like "In consideration of Mr. RNC's agreement that Ms. Baby Mama may file as Head of Household on all state and federal 2008 tax returns, thereby claiming the full deduction for Lil K, Ms. Baby Mama agrees that all child support obligations have been paid in full by Mr. RNC as of the date of this agreement, "
You also want to make sure you limit it to this year only. Make a statement that the agreement has no bearing on the status of tax filings for years going forward (or put those years in the agreement separately).
If possible, state that this new agreement supercedes all previous agreements (if, in fact, it does) regarding any outstanding child support payments owed, as well as any agreement regarding who can claim Lil K on their taxes. Be careful about making this statement too broad, b/c if there's a general child support agreement, this likely will not supercede that.
State that this agreement is the complete agreement regarding year 2008 tax returns and outstanding child support payments as of the date of the agreements, and no parole evidence will be considered.
Have it notarized, but also witnessed by at least one party that is not on "your side," but that will be honest if the agreement is contested (eg, that will state that Baby Mama did not sign out of financial duress, but rather because she agreed that no child support was owed). Maybe a mutual friend or family member of hers that you feel like will be honest if anything is contested. If there's not someone that fits that role, have each of you bring your own witness.
I would add something about the specific months that there is no record of child support. Something along the lines that no claims can be made for outstanding child support, including but not limited to the months of X, Y, and Z, whereby both parties acknowledge that child support in the amounts of $A, $B, and $C, respectively, were made. This gives you a sort of receipt for the undocumented payments. Don't worry about the agreement affecting any tax issues. It'll only come to light if one of you contest the agreement, and it's not like the IRS hangs out at family court looking to bust people.
Lastly, I'm not a lawyer in Missouri and this is not intended to be legal advice.
@ mrstye "Lastly, I'm not a lawyer in Missouri and this is not intended to be legal advice." LOL, spoken like a lawyer.
Rnc, it sounds tough to be in that situation. She's sounding like a stinker about the back child support. But as far as the tax claim, I actually think he should give the credit to her. Even if it's a sad and understandable reason he didn't pay for half of the tuition, she had to pay for it all. (At least for certain months.) So I think it was reasonable for her to ask him to fork over the dependet child credit. Either that or offer to pay as many months as he missed, in full for her. Or pay back the money for the months he missed, directly to her.
@@MrsTye
I don't think we'd qualify for a pro bono lawyer unfortuneately. FI is a full time electrician which brings in a substantial salary. Unfortunately, because of past lay-offs etc.. we are trying to play catch up right now and we are behind.
Thank you for all the advice MrsTye. I am a little confused by some of it (sadly), but it will really help! Should we even include the info about the taxes? Right now the main objective is to get the child support situation taken care of. She has already claimed Lil K on her taxes this year. Essentially Baby's Mama traded him back; she claimed Lil K and in return she will sign a document about back child support. She said he could claim her next year, but should we just wait unitl next fall when school starts to discuss that issue again?
The child support is pretty substantial. He was ordered to pay it through the court but since he wasn't working steadily at any one job (he was working out of the union hall) he paid her in check form several months too. The cash alone was probably 2 years and with checks, which are somewhat documentable, but my understanding is they are contestable, it's probably 3 years worth of child support.
Could you clarify what you meant in this sentence "Be careful about making this statement too broad, b/c if there's a general child support agreement, this likely will not supercede that." And also this statement "and no parole evidence will be considered." (what is parole evidence)
Again, thank you so much for your help! We really appreciate it. We'd like to start our marriage with a semi-clean slate (or at least an organized one..haha), and getting this taken care of is going to really help!
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@Tanya123. She didn't pay his half of the tuition. It's just late. She was mad that he was late on it and told him that he had 3 days to pay it before she would claim Lil K. FI told her that it was impossible for him to do so, so she said tough. Later when she feared he wouldn't pay it for the rest of the semester she started being super nice and asked him to let her claim Lil K (ie with his blessing). He told her ok as long as she signed this paper about back child support.
Both of them have now filed their taxes and she claimed Lil K. We had planned on using the tax money to get a lawyer to try to sort out some of the parenting agreement / child support issues we had but now we don't have that money, plus he owes her school tuition (which is where the other half of the tax money was going to go).
We had already talked to lawyer and she told him $2500 to sort out problems. He figured that the draft would be cheaper then the whole enchilada... wrong!
Ok we all know I'm definitely not a lawyer, but I will share this with you. My last horrific divorce where I was protected by a ($2k) lawyer-drawn up and filed and notorized Pre-Nuptial agreement was allowed to be contested in court by his saying he signed under duress! Keep in mind: he had a completely seperate attorney advise him that it wasn't in his best interests to sign it given he was bringing NOTHING to the table in our marriage and I wasn't even there, yet he claimed duress! He had to eventually walk away with nothing after costing me a 10K divorce though.
My point: even one of those perfectly legal expensive ways can be fought in court and you just end up paying tons of attorney fees!
Perhaps if there wasn't some way just talk rational with the unrational? Does she have family you guys can appeal to?
Be prepared to always deal with her and havoc :(
You might still be able to find a pro bono lawyer -- not all places will question you extensively about your ability to pay. BUT, if you make a decent salary, a lot of places may not work with you.
Parole evidence is anything outside the document. So, say you signed an agreement with Mr. A to shovel your sidewalk for $10 per snow storm. Before signing, you say to him, "you'll also put down salt, right?" and he says yes. Snow storm comes, he shovels, doesn't salt. You have no claim against not salting because that was outside the agreement. This will probably be helpful for you, because you don't want Baby Mama saying after the fact that when she signed the agreement, Mr. RNC had also agreed to do X, and contesting the agreement because that didn't happen. It just means that the agreement is limited to ONLY what's in the agreement. No side conversations, no last-minute add-ons, no previous arrangements, etc.
The part about making the statement too broad is that you don't want to say "no other agreement applies" if this agreement is JUST about the tax and back child support issue when there's another agreement regarding child support generally. That is, other documentation may actually apply, so, while you want to limit parole evidence, you may not be able to make the statement that NO OTHER DOCUMENT applies.
Next, you can't sign a document where the consideration (eg, the reason for signing, the benefit that one party is getting) does not exist. In your case, there's no consideration because she's already claimed Lil K. Therefore, she'd be agreeing to drop claims of unpaid support in exchange for something she's already done. Which is like me taking your bike and then signing an agreement saying "in exchange for your bike, i'll give you $10." Well, I already have your bike, why would I pay you for it?
The obvious answer then is to restructure the agreement. If Mr. RNC was supposed to be able to claim Lil K this year, but Baby Mama did, then you can sign an agreement stating that in exchange for Mr. RNC dropping any claim against Baby Mama for violating their agreement regarding tax claims, Baby Mama agrees to (1) drop claims regarding back child support and (2) allow Mr. RNC to claim Lil K next year. I'd also then put in that the parties agree to alternate years claiming Lil K on taxes so long as Mr. RNC pays half of Lil K's tuition (you could put in something about what happens if she goes to public school, or if there's a cap on tuition costs, etc.).
The important thing to remember is that Baby Mama didn't have the right to claim Lil K b/c Mr. RNC stopped paying tuition, since he never agreed to the tuition (ie, the ability to claim Lil K was not contigent upon paying tuition). So he should have stopped paying, but still insisted on claiming her. Baby Mama only has bargaining power over what Mr. RNC pays if he has agreed to make those payments. If Baby Mama wants Lil K to go to camp next year and Mr. RNC doesn't want to pay half, that doesn't mean Baby Mama gets to claim her on taxes UNLESS Mr. RNC agrees. Of course, Baby Mama could in turn go to court and ask for an increase in child support.
I would REALLY make getting a statement that all child support owed by Mr. RNC to Baby Mama has been satisfied in full, including but not limited to child support owed during X dates, a priority. Try to be as specific as possible about the fact that child support is not owed because it was paid in full (ANY documentation you have is good, but also state that cash payments were made that were accepted as full payment of child support obligations on such and such a date) -- that will make it harder for her to claim financial duress, because she's admitting in the document that she's received those payments.
Again, not admitted to practice in MO, not a family lawyer. And I do think you should try to get one.
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Just a thought, have you looked into legalzoom.com? I'm always hearing their ads on the radio about the legal documents they draw up at a fraction of the cost a lawyer would charge. And no, I"m not affiliated with them in any way. It's just what I would do in your situation.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help. This situation is so overwhelming!
Does there have to be a consideration.. ie do we need a bargaining chip?
The reality of the situation is simply that He does not owe back child support and She said she would sign a paper agreeing to this.
The tax situation is secondary. There was never anything more than a verbal agreement about it and according to the parenting agreement she gets to claim her and she has to pay all school fees. We don't want it included in this and I am sure she wouldn't allow it to be included either.
We just really want a paper that says I baby's mama admit that MrRNC paid me cash and back child support doesn't exist.
Where can we find a pro bono lawyer? I looked on the Illinois State Bar Association page and didn't find any listing for Pro Bono lawyers. Am I just not looking in the right place?
Great advice here. Has your fh looked at what kind of legal advice he can get through his job? At my work we get free legal advice through our union (electriticians are unionized aren't they?) for anything family or non-criminal related.
Good luck!
My advice is...get a lawyer. These situations are emotionally charged and can get ugly, as you have learned. It is not the type of thing that you want to handle by yourself because chances are you cannot anticipate the potential legal ramifications of certain decisions or agreements made. Find a lawyer you can afford and have all agreements documented. I know that $2500 seems like a lot of money, and it is, but going it alone could prove FAR more costly in the long run. Then, once the terms are set, stick to them. "Side deals" such as paying child support in cash rarely work in these types of situations, especially if one party is, as you put it "unstable." The sooner you get things sorted out, the sooner you can move on with your life. Good luck.
My FI and I went through a battle with his ex-wife on so many issue, so I can defnitely empathize with you. We had to wait to tell his kids about our engagement because of her manipulative nature because their child support was still being negotiated.
As far as your FI making a cash payment for child support , I don't think that stands up in court no matter if you have a lawyer or not. She can always go back and claim it unpaid because it didn't go through the necessary legal channels. That's how it is in Ohio, the child support agency even sent us a notice stating "any cash payments made directly to the owed will be considered as a gift outside of the regular monthly payment." They get you any way they can, both the justice system and the exes. I hope you guys are able to figure it out-it may take him just talking to her directly and saying this is ridiculous, let's come to a solution for everyone involved (has worked on a few occasions for us). I know how hard it can be to deal with a crazy, insecure, controlling ex!
I wish we could just talk to her and let it go! The only time the issue with back child support come up is when he tells her he'll take her back to court (which is not often). It's her leverage against him.
He really wants to get Lil K one day a week in addition to the every other weekend that he already has her. It shouldn't be hard because that's the norm for custody (at least around here) but if he takes her to court to get it she'll probably throw that in his face and he'll end up paying her thousands upon thousands of dollars that she already got.
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Hey guys,
I am one of the many out there engaged (or married) to someone who has a child from a previous relationship. I love lil K and am so happy she is part of our life. We have a lot of problems with Lil K's mom though. I really think she's just insecure and afraid her daughter will love her dad more and that I wlll try to replace her. I of course would never even try to do that and am always careful not to overstep my boundaries. Her mom is a little unstable. She has severe mood swings and one day she is super nice to FI, but just as suddenly the next day she will hate his guts. It's really hard to deal with because you never know what to expect.
The current drama is due to child support / taxes. Lil K goes to private school. FI agreed to pay half of tuition if he can claim her on his taxes every other year starting this year. Mom said ok. Well, FI fell behind (due to a job change) for a couple of months. Mom got mad and said he wasn't claiming her. FI said fine.. I won't pay for school anymore. Mom got scared and told him she needed to claim her she really needs the money. FI told her that he would let her if she agreed to sign a document specifying that no back child support is owed.
He doesn't owe her back child support. However, there was a period in time, while they were kind of (on again off again) dating and being friendly, that he paid her in cash. She was in the red at her bank and didn't want to be paid by check. He was working for cash so this was best for him too. Now everytime she gets pissed at him or he says he wants to modify the parenting agreement she says.. "go ahead.. try.. I'll sue you for back child support". Totally not cool!
Well, now that she agreed to do this FI called his lawyer. It's going to cost $2,500 as a retainer fee to get the lawyer to draft the document. We can't afford that right now. What do we do? We need the agreement signed and the lawyer has told him in the past that people in similar situaions who did these type of agreements on their own got screwed becuase the babies' mamas claimed that they only signed them becuase they were under diress and that they in fact were owed back child support.
I need some advice! sorry this is so long winded but any help would be appreciated. What should we do? How do we get this signed and make it official without the lawyers help? How do we word it?
Ps.. Right now we can't even tell Lil K that we are engaged because we're afraid that if her mom finds out she wont agree to sign the paper. She's paranoid and she'll probably think we're having her sign it so we can take her back to court to get custody. I hate that the most important person in our lives can't know that we're engaged!