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I've never posted anything on this board before and hadn't heard that it existed until my fiancee told me that she was reading this and that it was making her quite upset. She is quite seriously considering calling off the wedding. I've told her not to believe everything that she reads on these Internet boards, but now I am caving and asking for your opinion (whoever "you" are...). Please feel free to post responses either addressed to me or to my fiancee - I'm going to ask her to read this after (if she doesn't find it herself first).
I recently returned from a bachelor party in Vegas. I admitted that I had gotten a lap dance that my best man bought. She seemed OK with it until she started reading about it the next day (Googled "bachelor party" and "lap dance" I think) and now says that she feels cheap, betrayed and stupid for getting tricked into a relationship with someone that could do something like this to her. She says now that she thinks that I am in the "top 10%" of sketchiness (a statement that I would find funny for its absurdity if it were in a movie instead of my real life).
Here is what happened (sorry for length): On our last night, we planned to go out to a nice steak dinner and then to a club. To get into the club as a group of guys, we have to get bottle service, etc., so we did. A part of my group (including best man) was concerned with spending that much money (they'd already spent a ton paying for the whole trip - flight, dinners, etc.) and decided to split off. (The original plan was for them to wait in line and meet us inside, but they gave up when it was clear it would take forever.) I went into the club and had a great time. At a late hour, I get a text from the splinter group saying that they were at a strip club and that I should meet up with them. Before I get into philosophizing as to why I went, suffice it to say that I did and that once there my best man bought me a lap dance.
Now as to why I went? Well, it's pretty simple: I felt bad that it was the last night of the trip and I had spent the last 4-5 hours hanging out with one group and none with the other (which included my best friend/man). Yes, of course I was pretty drunk after helping get through 2 bottles at the club, but that's a cop-out. I knew where I was going and what goes on there.
Some background: I've been to strip clubs before as part of other bachelor parties, which I've always told her about. I'd never gotten a lap dance before (I don't buy them for myself!). I'm generally creeped out by strippers and have told her this, even after she has expressed some timid curiousity and desire to maybe go to one herself. We never spoke about what would happen at my party, and she never told me what I should/shouldn't do. Now she feels betrayed - how could I do such a thing? - because she figured that I wouldn't be the type of guy to do this (because I've told her that I get creeped out by this). I've told her that I did not enjoy it, which is absolutely true - I feel bad for these women and frankly it kind of hurts when they sit on you and then I feel bad that I can't muster a lot of enthusiasm for the lady when I know it's just her job. She says of course I would say that - who comes back and admits they liked the lap dance to their fiancee? I guess I can't refute that, but my response is that the type of guy that liked it doesn't admit having gone in the first place. But the argument goes around in circles and it's impossible to prove the negative.
(Side note: I am looking up places that do couples counseling. Has anyone else done this? Does it work, or is it just a bunch of psychoanalytic mumbo-jumbo? Not to take away from anything that you all might write, I think that we just need some practical advice.)
So please let me know what you think. I might answer a question or two if it is helpful to get more facts out, but I'm not going to try to present any other arguments.
There have been many posts about other girls experiences/ reaction to strip clubs and it seems like there is a common consensus about this topic. If the two of you never talked about, or set boundries regarding your bachelor party, most Bees agree that calling off the wedding is a little extreme. However, if the boundries had been discussed and you simply disregarded them, then that would be an act of betraying her trust. After reading your post you state that you never talked about your party, therefore there was a lack of communication regarding lap dances. As I have informed other Bees, there are girls out there that don't care about lap dances at bachelor parties, therefore we can't all assume that all guys know "that girls don't like this" because some just dont mind. As women we sometimes like to think certain things are just understood, and feel "he should of known" and the same goes with guys assuming things too, communcation is key.
Your situation sounds like a lack of communication, and if her feelings were so strong about lap dances, then the boudries really should of been laid out before you went to Vegas. It sounds like you don't want a situation like this to happen again, meaning you want to ensure you and your FI have an open line of communication, and couseling will be a great place to gain tools on how to keep that line open.
Good luck to you both!
Gosh.. its hard to reply to this! lol
First of all, your FI has a right to be upset.. after months of planning a perfect wedding for the 2 of you, its a bit of a slap in the face to most girls to celebrate a life with her by letting a stripper rub all over you. You need to be as understanding of her feelings as possible.
I think everyone has been in a position where alcohol replaces resposibility and we all know what peer pressure is like, but even those thoughts arent going to make her feel better.
Chances are, her love for you is stronger than this once occurance (assuming its not escalating behavior) and with time and help from you, she will eventually forgive you (but we never forget, just so ya know lol).
I personally think couples counselling is a great idea... and just being open and honest about how sorry you are will also help.
I know all of us ladies on here are pretty much totally against strippers at bachelor parties.. it really does make us think u feel less for us and disrespect us, and those thoughts dont change.. but it may help to take her to a strip club and let her see exactly what a lap dance entails... thoughts of it happening are much worse then what actually goes down...
Good luck with everything... just remember that her feelings are real and important and even though you may disagree.. she is the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with.. so whatever effort it takes to fix the problem is worth it.
Well, I think the fact that you are here is a credit to you. It's impossible to pigeon-hole or say what is the right call for other individuals in this realm. Some women wouldn't be bothered by it all, while many of the women here would be. I think it also depends on the individuals. If there is a discussion and agreement beforehand, there is generally much less issue than when information is disclosed after the fact. (That's not meant to be a condemnation-- it's obviously to late to go back in time).
I don't like to just default to recommending counseling, but in this case it might be just the thing to get you two on the right track. I don't think of it as "mumbo-jumbo", but rather an impartial observer that can help facilitate a productive discussion between the two of you, cutting through the emotionally laden content... to help you move forward.
You might want to start by looking on the psychology today website for counselors in your area. Look for someone who specializes in couples or marriage and family counseling... You definitely want someone who is used to working with couples.
Good luck to you and welcome to Weddingbee (even if it is under crummy circumstances). I hope you both get the resolution you need.
Yikes! First off I am really sorry that you and your fiance are having problems with this. Second, defintely get couples couseling. It's not mumbo-jumbo, its' a safe place where you can both honestly discuss your feelings and have a professional help you learn to communicate with each other.
I see a two things wrong in your scenerio. One, your girfriend didn't explicitly ask you not to go to a strip club. You didn't know. If she has asked you not to go and you did, that would be another story.This is a perfect example how how you need to learn to communicate. Neither of you can just hope that the other knows what you want/need/think about something. It's just not possible.
Two, if she's reacting in such a strong way to something that you clearly explained why you did go (and I am assuming you assured her you'd never do it again) then I am inclined to think something else is going on with your relationship. It sounds to me like she's projecting her trust issues on this particular event which she (and you) obviously need to deal with. See above comment on couples counseling.
Let me finish this by saying that while I do not like strip clubs, for a bachelor party I'll make an exception. My Fiance is going to go to one where my brother in law will probably buy him a lap dance. It's gross and my fiance has told me that. But its his bachelor party so I get it. But would I be ok with him getting lap dances at other people's bachelor parties? No. Am I Ok with him going on a random Friday night. No. He knows this b/c I have Explicity Told Him So.
To your fiance - let me say this: Your fiance can not read your mind. Even if you thought he wasn't "the type to do this" you were wrong but that doesnt mean he'll do it again, nor does it mean you have completely wrong about his character. I do think you need to take a long hard look at your relationship and figure out why you are reacting in such a strong manner to this. Is there something else bothing you? Is this an example of his regular behavior that bothers you? What about this is making you rethink your Entire future with this man? Why isn't this just another fight where you disagree and explain what your needs/boundaries are to make sure it never happens again?
I wish you both the best of luck.
So, I am not sure if this is exaclty what you want to hear (and probably will not help for you to bring this up to your FI)...but I think she is overreacting.
I am not thrilled about the idea of my FI getting a lap dance, but if it happens, so what? As long as there is nothing further than that, I don't see where you betrayed her. It would be one thing if you had discussed the bachelor party before hand and she had expressed her feelings and then you went against her wishes).
I know that some women feel strongly about the lap dance thing. Again, I don't like them and don't like the thought of my FI getting one during his bachelor party. But, I am pretty sure that his friends will get him one. He has explained to me that it isn't necessarily his thing, but guys get them for each other on their bach parties because it is "tradition/funny."
It seems like her feelings about the lap dance run deeper than the dance itself. Is she willing to trash your relationship over one lap dance? That seems a little odd. If you have explained your position and feelings and so has she you should be able to move on as a couple.
Couples counseling might not be a bad idea. I don't think that your behavior merits the need to attend counseling, but it seems that this is a relatively small issue in terms of issues that may come up in a marriage (disagreements over money, children, growing apart...) and that you should try to figure out a good way to communicate before you tie the knot.
Good luck!
I agree with everything AnnieAAA said.
I don't mean any of this to offend, and I certainly don't know your situation other than what you've told us, so I'm just throwing out ideas as they come to me.
I hate to be the one to ask/say this but could there be some other underlying "issue" (for lack of a better word) that caused her to feel this way? I'm not saying that she feels you've been unfaithful or anything like that but perhaps she has some other stress that is causing her to (in my opinion) over-react. I'm just trying to give all points of view. I'm wondering if there is some other reason she may want to call off the wedding but is using this as the reason... I don't necessarily think that's the case, but it came to mind. It sounds like your FI has some insecurity and that may also be why she feels betrayed... Again - just throwing out ideas.
Has your Best Man explained to her that he bought it, that you looked/felt uncomfortable, etc.? That may or may not help but it's worth a try.
I honestly think that reading these boards, and doing research about lap dances, etc. was a bad idea (again, in my opinon). I know my FI would be uncomfortable with a lap dance and so I wouldn't be upset with him if his friend bought one for him (I'd be upset with the friend) because I know that he'd be uncomfortable, etc., but if I read the boards while being upset already then I'd be even more upset, because there are quite a few threads with this title.
I think couples therapy CAN help but only if both parties are open to it.
Best of luck!
If this is an isolated incident (ie you are not a regular at the strip club) and your relationship is otherwise healthy than I say go to counseling and get it sorted out. By no means is this a reason to call of the wedding.
However if your fiance could looking for a reason to get out of the relationship and using this as an escape hatch.
Part of getting married is committing yourself to care about each others feelings as well as having forgiveness when those feelings are hurt.
I am not a fan of strip clubs. But I don't think that a lap dance from a stripper is such a big deal. Now if you slept with the stripper then yeah that is a much larger problem.
Go to counseling and see what is happening to cause such mistrust about this incident because it sounds like there may be some underlying issues somewhere.
Let me say that I told my husband that I did not want strippers to be a part of his bachelor party. Thankfully, his party was planned by his already married brother and was fun but not x-rated. Otherwise I might have been in a difficult situation as well. However, I can't imagine calling off the wedding if a stripper had showed up.
My husband sounds kind of like you. He doesn't like strip clubs or lap dances. He's been to some before for bachelor parties and birthday parties and accidentally got a dance when he bought one for the birthday boy (the stripper decided to give him one as well). And I could see him a) going to the club to follow his friends (he's very polite and social and would have felt obligated to find them) and b) accidentally getting a lap dance and not stopping it. I know that I come first to him and that I can 100% trust him, but I also know that he's human and he sometimes makes "dumb" mistakes (ones that seem obvious to me, but weren't obvious to him at the time). He's good on knowing what is definitely not allowed--we both agree on that--but he sometimes does things that he doesn't realize will be such a big deal to me.
I think that counseling would help. I see this as a matter of "perspective," and I think that counseling could help with that. As a girl, I can see how my husband getting a lap dance would make me feel jealous and disrespected and not good enough for him, etc. But I can also see the side that "it's not that big of a deal." I have this same problem with porn. On one hand I understand that it's fairly harmless and doesn't mean he finds me less attractive or wants me less. Yet sometimes it makes me a little jealous and I just find it so hard to understand why he needs porn when he has me. As a married couple, I think you'll find this difference of perspective coming up on many other issues. It's hard sometimes to see things from another person's point of view. And this doesn't have to be large things. It can be something as small as why he should put the toilet seat down vs. why he should leave it up.
I also see an issue of forgiveness here. I think that marriage (and love in general) requires a lot of forgiveness. True, there are some things that cannot be forgiven (although even that is not black and white). But married life does involve a lot of forgiveness because no matter how similar you are and how great you are together, there are going to be times that you don't agree or get mad.
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I really think your fiancee is overreacting. Bachelor parties involving strip clubs are extremely common is this country, and I personally do not think that getting a lap dance makes you a bad person. It is not cheating, and it definitely doesn't make you unfit to marry.
As others have said, if you and your FI had previously discussed this issue and she'd asked you not to do it, then maybe she would have a right to feel betrayed by your having done it. But if she had never expressed a negative opinion about lap dances until you had one, she does not have the right to be angry at you for doing something that she'd never told you she didn't want you to do.
My FI is also "not the type of guy" who would really enjoy a strip club. He has told me that the one time he went to one (his brother's bachelor party) was one of the most disgusting experiences of his life. But if for some reason he ends up going to one at his own bachelor party and getting a lap dance, I probably won't even be fazed. I love him and want to marry him, and I know that he's 100 times more attracted to me than he'll ever be to some stranger who sells her body.
Basically, I don't think you did anything wrong, but I don't have any real advice either. I hope everything turns out well for you.
I think what it ultimately comes down to is communication. As someone else has wrote, you can't read her mind and she can't read yours. I'm currently receiving in the midst of my doctoral program for psychology and I have done quite a bit of couples therapy in my training. I think first, that you should be commended for wanting to attend and work these issues out. That's awesome! Second, it's important to find a counselor that you both work well with and that you're able to develop a strong rapport with - not everyone is a good fit. Third, if nothing else, it can't hurt! I think it will only serve to help you both learn how to communicate in a healthy and appropriate manner. To have an objective point of view and have someone with experience in this area providing you with advice, recommendations, and suggestions for how to work on your issues can only be beneficial.
Best of luck!
I think its great that you are looking into couples counseling.
I personally dont think lap dances are a big deal/ or strip clubs and the like. Maybe its because of how young me and my FI are but things like this aren't a big deal in our relationship.I dance with other guys and its no big deal- but thats us.
If you wanted to cheat in Vegas you would have, and wouldn't have even told her about the lap dance in the first place. I think she may just in general have trust issues with you that need to be resolved before you get married.
I've also noticed, and not trying to start trouble in anyones relationships, but the people who become the most vocal critics and usually the ones who have something to hide themselves. You've heard that people who cheat are usually the ones who constantly think they are being cheated on, well maybe she is that type of girl and is afraid that you are that type of guy because she is. Just a thought
And what is wrong with a lap dance? Different boats for different follks. Maybe you should give her a lap dance and see if she likes it
This is a tough one. I tend to agree with Habibi that it seems like there may be something else going on in this relationship. Now, I can't (and won't) judge a situation that I don't know all sides to, but I will give my opinion of what you have said.
I am suprised that the topic of limits for your bachelor (and her bachelorette) party never came up. It seems to me to be fairly common knowledge that bachelor parties tend to get wild (depending on the people, of course) and involve strippers or strip clubs.
And it's also petty common knowledge that Vegas is a common location for bachelor parties and debauchery.
She knows you've been to strip clubs for other bachelor parties, so it doesn't seem that far off that you would go for yours (and I'm sure it wasn't necessarily your idea, either).
If you both have talked about this before, I'm surprised that it didn't come out again before the bachelor. There had to be at least a small llittle thought in the back of your head that this would happen. And since you're marrying this girl, I would assume that you know her pretty well, too. So it's really confusing as to how this could have happened.
Plus, she was ok with it until she googled it. What did she find when she googled it? Did you tell her what happened? Did she think that something beyond typical lapdance stuff happened? DID anything beyond a simple lap dance happen? Was there touching, kissing, or anything else going on?
My opinion is that she does seem to be overreacting. Without specifically asking you not to, or even bringing up the subject, she really has no reason to feel betrayed. Now, I'm not saying she's not feeling betrayed, but it just doesn't seem logical in this instance.
This leads me to believe there is some other issue going on with the two of you and if you are both having difficulty communicating about it then, yes, I think it's a good idea to go to counseling.
My fiance and I go to counseling. It's not as big a deal as everyone makes it. It's a way to learn how to better communicate.
Best of luck to the both on you.
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I have to say that imho, calling off a wedding because of this dance is unusual. My guy has been to numerous bachelor parties and he will have one also. Neither of us decide what the other can do, but we have BOUNDARIES in place and infidelity is far out of the question but (my opinion) this does not qualify as infidelity.
I think that contacting a licensed professional with recommendations from your church or minister (make sure the professional is pro-marriage as there are some who imho are not) and this will open up lines of communication between the two of you.
If you two have not discussed firm boundaries with each other, this can be an outstanding opportunity to begin to lay down a firm foundation for the future with one another.
Don't give up hope. Be open, honest to her, and listen empathetically.
Again, I'll have a bachelorette party if I choose to and we are a wonderful, faithful, loving couple and have faith and trust in each other. Fidelity is part of the deal, but to me, I don't consider that as being unfaithful to your fiancee.
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I agree with the above posters that I would only consider calling off a wedding if I had explicitly told my FI that it would be very hurtful if he got a lap dance, and that he chose to do so anyway. Since you are not in that category, I would consider this a much less serious incident.
Your FI is very hurt, and is worried that if you really loved her you would never have done this to her. You need to sit down with her and let her tell you exactly how angry and hurt she is. Then you need to acknowledge that you understand her pain, and promise that you will never do this again. Then you need to show her through your actions how much you love her and make her feel safe again. Try to think about her favorite things - does she love certain foods, have a hobby, or like certain movies? Have a FI day, where you do whatever she loves to do (this may involve painful chick flicks like Bride Wars) and buy her small gifts (like her favorite candy or brushes if she likes to paint) to show her how well you know her and how much you care about what is important to her. Good luck!
I agree with most of the other posters here.
I think that throwing away a loving relationship over a lap dance is a massive over-reaction (especially so if the circumstances are as you describe and the issue hadn't been previously discussed).
So if it is the case that this lap dance is the only reason your fiancee wants to end your relationship, think long and hard about whether or not you want to marry her!
Couples counseling may help- since the counselor can serve as an impartial mediator for you to resolve this- if possible.
However, I would have a long talk with your fiancee about what else she would end your relationship over. If a lap dance is cause for a breakup, will there be other issues that are deal breakers?
Also do some soul searching of your own- do you really want to marry a woman that would end a relationship over a lap dance? Marriage is full of hardship and compromise. If your fiancee can't overcome this issue, what does that say about your chances for longterm happiness?
First, I think you deserve some credit for coming "here" and asking "us" for our help. You know your fiance takes what people say on these boards to heart and I think and this may be a good starting point for future conversations.
I agree with the comments above about the communication thing. You both need to make it clear how you feel about certain issues and make sure the other person knows, especially if it is a "deal breaker" issue. Talking to a counselor may be a good idea for you.
My fiance sounds a lot like you in the fact that he doesn't like/go to strip clubs except for bachelor parties and doesn't like strippers in general. What I don't understand is why you feel bad cause you "cannot get enthusiastic over this girl when you know it is just a job for her." True, it is a job but do you walk into the gas station and feel bad that you are not enthusiastic when you are paying for your take of gas and a soda? Personally, I think I would be pissed to here my fiance got "enthusiastic" over a stripper (and I know you didn't), but you may just want to leave that point alone as I don't think it will get you far.
Another thing I find odd is why, after the other group of friends split off because they didn't want to spend money on bottle service at the club, they went to a strip club and he then bought you a lap dance. It's just weird cause usually if you are looking to not spend a lot of money, you wouldn't head to a strip club.
Personally, I don't think taking her to a strip club to see a lap dance will help. She may have thoughts of what goes on and seeing it and envisioning you on the receiving end may cause more hurt than help.
Good luck to both of you and I hope everything will work out for the best!
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I'm going to go ahead and echo pretty much exactly what Erindesmar said. I've been to a strip club before (not in Vegas and it was kinda trashy) and I got a lapdance from a girl. It was awkward but after seeing what it was like I really didn't get the hype. I trust that the girl did to me pretty much what she would do to a guy. That being said, I know some women go CRAZY about their men going to strip clubs. While it would not be my first, second, or 100th choice of something to do on a Friday night, if you want to do it for your Bach party, I say whatever.
I've had a lot of conversations with both men and women, and I've come to realize that many women just don't "get" why a man would want to go to a strip club. Personally, I think it's kind of silly to go to one, but like I said before, what.ev.er.
A previous posted touched on something that I think is a good point: is there an underlying issue here? Have you done things in the past that might warrant this type of response from her? Is there something within her own life that is making her question her committment to the relationship? Counseling might help bring these feelings out if they are there. And if none of that applies, counseling is still a good idea anyway.
Also, and this is coming from a girl with lots of girlfriends with lots of opinions, your fiance might be getting earfuls from her friends. Her friends might just be feeding the fire, if you will, and telling her that what you did was SO WRONG that she MUST call it off. Girls love drama and gossip so it's not unfair to think that what she's hearing from others is playing a part in this as well.
I hope it all works out, and I think you're absolutely taking the right steps by coming here and also by eventually showing her this. Good luck to you both.
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i agree with what some other posts have stated that she is over reacting. Nowadays, I think women are aware that a strip club is a highly probable stop during a bachelor party.If she felt that strongly about you going to one, she should have brought it up prior to the trip. The fact that she is upset now and blaming you is unfair. While I can respect her feelings and opinion that a strip club and lap dance aren't something she is comfortable with, i think (for most men) it is about a fun night out they will only do once and has nothing to do with the strippers, but all about hanging out with the guys. I don't think the majority of guys ever have intentions of cheating or doing something they shouldn't with a stripper. Its their night to celebrate their transition guy-style.
I know my fiance will go to a strip club and will probably have a lap dance, and I'm all for him having fun with the understanding that it is just a fun night out where there still are boundries. I know my thoughts on the subject are a little more liberal, but I'm confident in our relationship.
Couples therapy would be a good step for you two, but it sounds like she needs to really work through some issues and you both need to establish a clear definition of behavior/activities that are ok with the other.
I too think your FI is overreacting, and I feel like the whole issue boils down to a trust problem. I don't feel like you've done anything wrong, especially since you told her everything that happened instead of a "what happened in Vegas, stays in Vegas" attitude. If she's willing to call off the entire wedding because you were honest with her about what happened, so be it. I promimse I'm not saying that lightly, but you were truthful with her, she knows the type of person you truly are, and if this situation is worth throwing away your future together, what kind of future would that have been?
I'm sorry to sound so callous, but this really rubs me the wrong way. I've seen so many of my friends fight over similar situations, and it's always the girlfriends/wives who have never been to a strip club. I call it the fear of the unknown, because chances are, had your FI seen the stripper who had given the lap dance, she probably would have laughed at her own insecurity. As you yourself said, it's her job. Your best friend paid for the lap dance, and I guarantee there were all the guys in your party egging the entire situation on.
I think you definitely should consider couple's therapy. You have to be able to trust each other when you're not together, and the lines of communication have to be open, which right now, they clearly aren't.
I wish you the best of luck, and hopefully your FI will see that this is not worth calling off the wedding.
I don't want to offend anyone with this. But IMHO going to a strip club for your bachelor party and getting a lap dance is no big deal. My fiance loves me, respects me and has no interest in having sex with a stripper. He thinks I am beautiful with no makeup on in sweatpants so there is no reason for me to feel threatened by a stripper, which if you've ever been you'll often see they aren't much to write home about. By the time we get married, we will have been together for three years and he has been to a strip club once for a bachelor party. I might feel differently if he went every Friday night.
While I have no interest in going to a strip club for my own bachelorette party I've gone for others and I've gone to a female strip club for a male friend's birthday. I know he's going and his friends will probably buy him a lap dance. And at the end of the night he will come home to me.
Do I think it is a shame women disrepect themselve like that? Yes. But no one is forcing them to take their clothes off for money.
I feel like when women make a huge deal about these stipper issues there are much deeper underlying trust and security issues. I don't think you did anything wrong and frankly you didn't even have to tell her, kudos to you for being open and honest with her.
I think couples counseling would be a good idea because I think there are issues here beyond this one incidence, such as communication and trust - things you need to have a strong marriage. Good for you for being open to starting your marriage off on a strong foot. best of luck!
Absolutely, 100% agree with catrelle63 & sarsk624! Women make a big deal of the strip club issue because they are insecure. I think every women should go to one to see that all their over stressing about the situation was unnessary. In fact, i've been to a couple bachelorette parties where the bride-to-be has acted questionable...strip clubs aren't the only places for bad behavior.
I ditto Colleen! I have seen brides to be make out in regular old bars with random guys on their bparties. Way more inappropriate than a lap dance.
In your fiance's defense, this is an issue that came up recently in my relationship, and I also had a strong reaction. My Fi and I have been together for 4.5 years, and he has always said he doesn't like strippers, strip clubs, etc... But when a work friend jokingly mentioned that he would take my Fi to a strip club while I was at a bridal shower, he suddenly seemed interested. I was upset because it seemed like what he'd been telling me all along about not being interested in strippers was a lie. It seemed, to me, that he had been telling me these things for our entire relationship just because he thought it was what I wanted to hear instead of telling me the truth.
After I intially got angry at him (I didn't call off the wedding, but I did call him skeazy and a misogynist 
) he explained that the things he had said before were true. He isn't interested in going to a strip club or having lap dances, etc... But he did have some curiosity about what all the hype was about, he was feeling a little peer-pressured to accept, and if someone offerred, he didn't want to turn down the opportunity to go out and have fun with some guy friends since I was going to be having fun with all my girlfriends at the bridal shower.
I guess my feelings are that maybe your fiance is feeling betrayed because of the differences in what you have been saying versus what you actually did. I believe all your excuses are valid, but (if she's like me) it might seem that you are just saying those things because she wants to hear them, not because they are true. You need to make your fiancee understand that you still believe in the same things, but that your excuses are also true. She needs to be reassured that this behavior isn't a part of who you are, but a one-time experience that helped shape your resolve not to do it again.
I totally second everyone else's suggestions to open the lines of communication, and I think counseling is an excellent way to do this. Good luck, and keep us posted on the outcome.
I'm going to venture a guess that something is going on that was not included in this post. Maybe you never discussed your bachelor party specifically, but I'd be kind of surprised if you'd never ever discussed what the two of you were comfortable with before. Have I talked with my FI about his bachelor party? No. Does he know that I feel that lap dances are borderline cheating? Yes. Maybe he isn't doing anything, but he isn't stopping her from doing anything either. But really, if your communication is so bad that the two of you have discussed anything like this before, maybe it's best that she's calling it off.
If I were in her position, I wouldn't be happy about it, but what I'd take out of the experience is that I probably wouldn't have to worry about you ever lying to me. I won't have to wonder where you've been and what you've been doing. Because, frankly, I think you knew that it would upset her (even if she hadn't told you explicitly) and even though you did it anyway (which you admit was a mistake, try not to let it happen again), you still came home and told her about it. If I were her, I'd feel more betrayed if you'd lied and said it hadn't happened and then I found out about it years later. *That* would make me wonder what else you were hiding.
Clearly others disagree with me, but I think your FI had a gross over-reaction. There are sooooooo many bigger fish to fry in a relationship and this shouldn't have even made it onto the boat.
I don't think this is about whether going to a strip club for your bachelor party is ok, or not ok. It doesn't matter what any of us think about our fiances getting lap dances. What matters is how YOUR fiance feels about YOU getting a lap dance.
She feels betrayed, she feels cheap and she feels stupid. THAT is what you need to focus on, not whether or not strip clubs are ok. Some people think they are fine, others don't. That is an individual opinion and it is not up to us to judge whether or not it is an acceptable reason to call off a wedding. If your fiance is ready to call off the wedding, which will cause a lot of financial and emotional stress on her, and to give up everything that both of you have put into this relationship for however long (years?) you have been together, then you have a big problem.
I think that the most important thing is that she feels betrayed. Whether or not someone(her or you) specifically said "No strip clubs," you must know her pretty well so you must have known her feelings about them before you went. You also seem to give a lot of excuses as to why you went (you felt bad, you hadn't seen people etc. etc. Clearly your best man & your other group of friends didn't feel bad enough for not hanging out with you to leave what they were doing...) and a lot of excuses as to how you didn't enjoy it. The last thing your fiance wants is excuses. You made a huge mistake in your relationship-- whether that stemmed from miscommunication (by not talking about what is and is not acceptable in your relationship) or by lack of judgement on your part is something only you know.
I think the best thing you can do right now is TALK to your fiance. My guess is that she might be willing to listen if you talk to her about your honest feelings (your feelings for her, and feelings about the situation), rather than give her excuses. I'm not saying that all guys going to strip clubs are wrong, but YOU crossed a boundary (whether it was voiced or not) and by asking us if she is overreacting, you are basically stating that you think her feelings aren't justified. Her feeligns don't have to be justified- she doesn't need to prove that her feelings are right or wrong-- it is simply how she feels and this emotion is going to continue to overwhelm her if you try to convince her that she shouldn't feel this way. Instead of trying to convince her to feel something she doesn't, try to make her comfortable again. Let her know what you are thinking, how you feel, etc etc.
As others have mentioned, it seems like some of this has come from a lack of communication. In order to avoid something like this from happening again, you guys are going to need to communicate about where you go from here & what is and is not acceptable to BOTH of you in your relationship.
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My fiance and I have discussed bachelor and bachelorette parties and set out bounderies for them, but they are basically obvious and the same boundaries that we generally expect from each other every day. I agree with what Colleen216 said: bad behavior can occur anywhere. And if I behave as some bachelorettes do by making out with strangers or anything, I fully expect my fiance to be angry and even end our relationship. I won't be doing that at my bachelorette, just as I won't do it tonight or any other night.
That being said, I know there are certain expectations from the groomsmen/friends throwing the bachelor party that the groom will do certain things including getting a lap dance. Like you, my fiance has expressed disgust with strip clubs so I don't expect him to do it, but if he does I would NOT call off the wedding. I actually would have way more of a problem if he paid for a lap dance himself because I wouldn't like him spending our money on another woman, but if his friends buy him one, and he goes along with it, ok. I admit I do think its gross and I might feel a little icked out by him afterwards, but no way would I throw away our relationship over it.
If I were in your fiancee's shoes (and I'm thankful I'm not), the issue would not be about the lap dance itself or the stripper, but about you and your disrespect toward me. I would not be jealous of the lap dance, I would be hurt that you allowed it to happen. I agree with other posters that I sense other underlying trust or insecurity issues here. Instead of focusing on this one-time incident, you may need to have a much bigger and broader discussion with your fiancee before you put that wedding ring on her finger.
First of all, couples counseling/pre-marital counseling is a really good thing. From a good therapist, it's definately not a bunch of psychoanalytic mumbo-jumbo. Ideally, it is a set of lessons in how to effectively communicate about the issues in your lives - which it sounds like you definately need. Do expect to have to actually talk about a lot of things - including this issue - because if you're not willing to do that, there's not much value in going.
On your main question, I feel a little differently than most of the posters. My husband is the kind of guy who also doesn't enjoy strip clubs, and most of his friends are married, and would be in huge trouble if they went to one. Regardless, he has a couple of single/divorced friends who were really pushing the issue in planning his bachelor party. My issue was this: What kind of "friends" actually would try to pressure him into doing something he has already said he doesn't want to do? Especially something that they know might upset me? And what does it say about him as a man if simple peer pressure can force him into a situation that we both agree is normally not acceptable behavior? After discussing those questions, in detail, he decided that he would be much happier with a bachelor party that just didn't include those guys. And honestly, although it wasn't my decision, I was much happier too.
Saying that it wasn't your choice - that you didn't even enjoy it - that your best man and the rest of your friends sort of forced you into it - really doesn't make it better, in my opinion. Actually, it sort of begs the question, what other things (that you've already said are things that you don't do or don't enjoy) are your friends going to talk you into? This might seem like a silly question to you - but I would bet that it's a big part of what is going through your FI's mind. You have pretty clearly demonstrated that the lines that govern your normal behavior don't necessarily apply when you're with your buddies. So is this a one-time, bachelor-party thing? Or can she expect that you'll be blowing by boundaries on a regular basis when your best man plans the parties? And is there a line past which you just won't go? Or are there more things that you'll go along with just to be a good sport, or not to look bad in front of your friends?
I think the "right" answer to the question of whether strip clubs are okay depends on both you and your FI. Just because it's okay with some women doesn't mean it has to be okay with her. Just because some guys enjoy it doesn't mean you have to go along for the ride. You do either need to both agree where the line gets drawn. And to have a meaningful discussion about it, you need to stop making excuses and figure out why you really ended up in this situation, and your FI needs to figure out what really bothers her about that. I wish you both the best of luck - it's not an easy discussion to have honestly. I do think it is worth doing. I have friends who, after years of marriage, still have serious fights and bad feelings over this exact issue. You don't really want to end up that way, I'm sure.
So many are giving thier opinions...and I see that many things I would say..have already been said. But, I am on the side of the woman who say that not only is it NOT a big deal...you were not told beforehand what the rules were and so it is not fair to act as though you have betrayed her.
My main reason for replying is to urge you to see a therapist together. I think communication, or lack there of, is one of the biggest issues in relationships. If people would just TALK to each other ...and try to see things from the other person's perspective...so many fights could just be ended at that.
I think talking to someone is the best idea.
Often when we fight and are hurt...we are not even listening to the other person
Sounds like to resolve things with your FI, you need a 3rd party to help mediate it and help you both hear what the other is saying.
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Not sure if I have much new to add, but here are my thoughts.
1 - Kudos to you for caring enough to come here
2- I think that most people would not freak out this much over something they hadn't discussed before if there wasn't something else on her mind. Something is causing her to not trust you the way she should - stress? past experience? I don't know, she might not know, but a therapist can probably help you get to the bottom of it
3- Whether you say you enjoyed it or not, of try to explain that it wasn't your idea - none of that matters. She feels betrayed by the act, the other stuff is irrelevant.
Not that it matters, but I have gotten a lap dance before, and I know mine was pretty darn similar to what the guys were getting. It really was no big deal. Not that I would love my husband getting them often, but at a bach party every now and again? I could handle it. Lucky me, there were no strippers at this party so no worries :)
Mrs. Spring said everything that I was thinking. If it were me, I would be upset because, even though you didn't explicitly discuss going to a strip club and getting a lap dance, your actions went against your feelings towards strippers/strip clubs you discussed with your fiance. If "you get creeped out" by strippers, a natural ASSUMPTION is that you wouldn't go to a strip club. So, I'm guessing your fiance didn't feel the strong need to discuss with you, and tell you how much she would be hurt if you went to a strip club. The issue is a failure to communicate--on both ends. Talk to your FI. Counseling is always a good idea. If you haven't considered pre-marital counseling, its a good idea too.
I've seen more than a few threads posted in here by angry and frustrated women who found out that their future husbands would partake in lap dances without their knowledge or their consent. Most of the time it's due to the fact that the couple just hasn't really discussed that type of scenario, and so there is a lack of knowledge on both ends about what the other person considers acceptable. In your situation, it definitely sounds like you're both on the same page in terms of expectations (despite the fact that you may not have made them explicit before the party) but you found it acceptable in the circumstances of your night to partake in that whereas she really didn't, and so it fell out-of-bounds in a manner of speaking.
I think the facts that work in your favor are that you did not ask nor encourage your best man to buy you a lap dance, the fact that you historically have not thought they were anything special and this one was certainly no exception, and the fact that you were up-front with her about this the whole time.
I would say that right now, you are not convincing her that she is your special one-and-only. It might be an indication of low self-esteem on her end (I say might because this is total speculation)- maybe she thinks that she can't compare to some of the other women, and you getting a lap dance was a way of proving her fears to be true. You need to help her feel special and sexy and like she has a lot of self-worth.
I have never been to couples counseling (though I've been through a few really bad counselors) so I'm hesitant to recommend it, but if she's really not seeing your side of this then it might be the way to go. Good luck!
Okay, I was intrigued when I first read this post and the more I read, the harder my heart pounded. I can say that I have definite opionions about this, but the major issue here is definitely communication. I am an encore bride, and my groom is also. We have discussed this at length. We both come from previous marriages where infidelity was an issue, so it is a hot button topic for both of us. I feel that if you wouldn't say it or do it in front of me, then you shouldn't say it or do it. He has whole heartedly agreed and has given me some opinions of his own-which are even stronger than some of mine.
I understand the celebration, but I'm of the camp that celebrating the beginning of our life together by watching another/other women remove their clothes-disrespectful, unnecessary, and unacceptable to me. I also have a hard time justifying activities involving strippers by saying that I am at a bridal shower illogical-I'm sorry. This probably won't win me any friends here, but I find a comparison of opening gifts & visiting with girlfriends and relatives to be a poor comparison to consuming massive amounts of alchohol and watching someone take their clothes off and/or rub all over you-they can't be compared.
All of that being said-let me restate that we have talked about this and we feel the same way. This is what is right for us. For us only. I'm not trying to put my opinion on anyone else and I certainly don't mean to sound like a prude (because I assure you, I am not!) but we are just not doing this. If someone else wants to do it, fine-I think that is great-this is just my personal opinion.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that she was reacting to one of the posts I saw here recently in which many people suggested that lap dances aren't just lap dances - that in vegas and many other joints they turn into prostitution. there were also others that I recall suggesting that lap dances weren't no-touch, and that a lot of, um, "rubbing" tends to occur. if thats the case, i would have had the same reaction. is she maybe thinking you are avoiding telling her about sex, or something else, not just a lap dance? maybe you need to be clear about what posts she read and what it is she is accusing you of.
councilling is great, and I would seriously recommend a liscenced professional over a religious councelor. My FH and I have spent many hours at one and have never felt closer, after a year of many fights which ended in "I'm gonna call it off". Its not just communication, its getting into all sorts of issues either of you may have been represssing or deciding not to talk about beacuse you didn't want to make things akward/loose each other. it may be a great way to bring her back to the table and a controlled way to talk about what happened.
kudos for posting on the weddingbee - keep us updated.
Sorry, I didn't get through everyone's posts, so forgive me. I give you credit for coming on here. I hope your FI at least sees that as a sign that you truly love her. I'd like to say that saying someone who hates strippers and lap dances is insecure, is way too judgemental. (It might be true, but could honestly be not true at all.) Besides that, I hope your FI does come around here, during counseling, or before.
The fact that you didn't discuss your expectations beforehand should be a reason enough to not call off the wedding. But I can appreciate not liking strippers etc. And I think at the least, she is probably so upset that she is dreaming away at your life together. So it hurts when this whole "dreamy" process involves immoral, seedy activites. Strippers really shouldn't be part of a wedding tradition (IMO). But I think you seem sincere in not wanting to go, nor enjoying the lap dance.
I don't know how much longer you have until the wedding. But I would try to make it up to her by being really focused on your marriage preparation now. (I'm assuming you've made some apology already.) Be involved in the wedding planning. Discuss all the wonderful stuff about the two of you being married. Unless there is something else going on, I think the counseling will help. Good luck.
Is your fiance seriously debating calling off the wedding?
Do you both generally talk about everything and anything- the good, the bad and the unpleasant with each other? What I mean by this is, have you guys sat down and pretty much said: "If this were to happen I would feel this way..."
Did you have any inkling before you went to your bachelor party that she had strong feelings against the whole strip club thing?
Honestly, I don't think strip clubs are a big deal. I think I have learned though, on these bridal boards that some girls have very strong convictions against them. and often I am surprised when a brides says "I am disgusted" and feel strongly about calling off the wedding. (check out the link I imbedded- there was a huge hoopla of women who put in their opinions on that post about their feelings on strip clubs in general) oh and check out this other link that is a follow up post to the previous post: Bachelor Party Spoiler
If your fiance has a problem with you being at a strip club after she goes online to look up what a strip club entails (because- after reading the two posts I linked into this one- I have to tell you, I had no idea how extreme strip clubs can get) but if my fiance (who also dislikes strip clubs too mind you- he thinks they are silly, he went with his med school buddies back in the day like ten yrs ago, and didn't like them and he expressed much the same thing you did about feeling like the whole experience was just ridiculous) says nothing happened I know nothing happened because I trust my man. I dunno. I am thinking she is forgetting who you are or at least over looking that. Doesn't all the time dating, and getting to know one another, and investing in each other mean nothing all because of one night? But see this question depends on who answers it- because many women have different ideas as to what consitutes "cheating".
You, my friend are in a tough position. But at least you are willing to do anything to rectify it. I give you props for that.
But I will tell you I don't think you did anything wrong. If I were your significant other, and you were honest with me, and there is a history of honesty & trust between the two of us- I would take your word and marry you anyways. But there are girls out there who do feel strongly about this.
So- it seems your fiance falls in this category of it just being the deal breaker. So ask her, "Is this the deal breaker??? After all these yrs of being together, this is what is going to keep you from loving me and having faith in us for the end of our days???" If so- do you want to be with someone who won't trust you?
Yeah you can go to Marriage counseling... -but I know I could have dealt with this with my future hubby on my own rationally. If your fiance is having arguments with you (or even the other way around where you are not being constructive in the disagreement) where she (or you) are not displaying rational thought and is being over emotional-- or the conversation is heading in a unhealthy direction then maybe you need a mediator to redirect the interaction to the real meat and potatoes as to how to reach resolving this, how to move on from this, & why she feels the way she does. The counselor will be able to help you both explore each other's feelings and give you tools to better ways of working through tough conversations.
And while you are around the board(s), let us know how everything worked out. This community likes hearing happy endings... and I hope that is what happens with you two!!!
I just wanted to restate, to anyone who reads that and thinks that I am too strict or uptight or whatever, that this is what is right for us. I think the boundaries that exist in each relationship are dependent on those within that relationship and no one can make those decisions except the two of you.
I do applaud you for coming on weddingbee-literally walking into the hive took alot of courage. Reading all of these posts from bees who may or may not agree with you takes courage too.
That being said-we will be having "bachelor/bachelorette" parties-but in a different kind of way. We both feel that it is about celebrating with your friends-so the guys are going golfing (and staying at his parents afterwards-he's sure they'll be too tipsy to drive and his folks live in the golf/county club and his dad is a part of the celebration) and some girlfriends are coming over here-to my house actually-and we are having a champagne brunch-at which we are going to oooh and ahhh over gifts, look at pictures from high school and college, and just hang out in general.
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