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He's not fighting fair, and he apparently doesn't share the same views as you do, especially when it comes to raising children. I dont' think would continue with this relationship, if I were you
Oh my goodness. That sounds horrible. I think you need to ask yourself, firstly, does he respect you, and secondly, do you share the same values? I think this will help you evaluate the relationship.
He also needs to never use threatening to leave you as ammo in an argument again. That's not acceptable. And then to ask why you're upset? :(
I hope you can work these issues out. Good luck hon.
Ok, my brain is on two spectrums here.
As far as the fighting goes, it doesn't sound like anything that can't be fixed. In fact, it reminds me of a lot of fights my SO and I used to have. It's certainly not good, but if both people want to learn how to fight more effectively and respectfully in counseling, it can be done. I'm not sure exactly what you said when you left, but what I found works for me, is that SO and I have a rule that we must calmly say where we're going and when we intend to get back. So, "I can't handle yelling right now. I'm going to sleep downstairs and I'll come back when I'm ready. If I fall asleep, I might be there all night." However, the caveat to that rule is that the other person must calmly let the other person go and not bug them until they're prepared to talk.
In short, for the fightiing peace, I really reccomend counseling. If you both are open to learning, it can be amazing.
His attitude toward LGBTQ issues is what frightens me. Then, again this is a personal thing. My very strong feelings about sexuality are a core definer of who I am! I am the kind of person who cannot be friends with someone who has the kind of attitude your FI displayed. In fact, when I first started dating my SO, I made sure I knew where he stood before I committed to him. It's that big of dealbreaker for me. I know, in my heart, that if my SO said those things, I would walk away from him.
But that's so personal. Can you live with the fact that he might never change that attitude? Have you investigated further? Do his misconceptions lie in hatred or ignorance? There's big difference imo. Do you think he'd shame your future child if they didn't fit into gender norms? It's a lot to think about. Good luck!!
Ouch... well what do you want us to say? That you are being silly and to stay and work on it, or that you have permission to be angry and you should leave?
In this situation, I would leave, but only because of the unfair fighting and his childish "if you leave now it's all your fault!" stuff.
About him being bigoted (which he is), it's pretty funny, FI and I had a discussion about that same topic that was spurred by the "what if your son asked for dolls for Christmas" thread. We had different opinions of what we would do in that situation (although not nearly to the extent that you guys disagreed), but we agreed to disagree and chalked it up to "we'll decide if/when that happens."
He should have dropped the argument when you asked him to stop talking about it. In my opinion, he's majorly in the wrong, and this is an example of how he'll be come any argument. In short, I would not put up with it and leave.
@MsMonkey: I was really appalled to hear what he was saying. It has never really come up before and I assumed he was tolerant. Last night he said, "I'd be fine if my kids were gay, I just wouldn't want to do anything to make them that way" which just seems ignorant to me -- and I told him the things he was saying were ignorant, and I told him if he actually spoke to someone who IS gay or bisexual or queer in any way they would likely tell him the same thing, but he was SO defensive. He was really upset that I called him bigoted but I can't see it any other way.
first of all, I'm really sorry you're having this kind of fight. it sucks. But, figuring out whether you have the same kind of values about raising children is actually really, really important, imo. I personally wouldn't be able to stay with someone who thought that way about sexuality--I agree with you that it's pretty bigoted.
but that's a different, separate issue than fighting fair. if you can live with his views on homosexuality--and these are views that you probably can't change just by trying to talk him into thinking something different-- than what I said above isn't important, and both of you need to work on learning to fight more fairly. it does sound like he's setting "the rules" and holding you to a double standard. when you both are calm, it might be good to sit down and talk through new "rules" together and promise to both be accountable to those rules, like not interrupting each other, not calling each other names, not threatening to leave the relationship, etc.
Maybe you too need to read a book about how to fight fair in a relationship. There are several good one out there. Also, there are a few therapists that offer sessions over skype and that type of thing, you might look into it. I just saw it advertised in a local magazine, so maybe you can find one in your state.
I don't think that there is anything seriously wrong with your relationship other than the fact that the two of you loose the ability to constructively communicate during an argument. That is normal, you are speaking out of emotion rather than logic. I think that once you find that the two of you learn some more constructive communication techniques that you find those things get much better.
@GoldfishPie: Not really asking for permission or to have my feelings confirmed in any way -- I honestly don't know what to think or what to do and I'm trying to figure out if I'm totally off the mark in thinking that this is wrong. I'm also willing to hear people telling me to reconsider from his point of view, too, because maybe there's something I'm missing. Just looking for input, as I said.
I know there are no counselors around, but are there any churches? Pastors can make good counselors sometimes too, check to see if there's one in the area who's willing to work with you two. These issues can be solved, but he needs to back off and see some of his mistakes as well. If there is no one around, I would recommend getting a couple books on relationships and reading them together and doing the exercises together, or getting a couple's coach. Coaches work through Skype so you wouldn't need to find a local one, of course the drawback is that they don't take insurance so they are more expensive. But they can work with you just like counselors can, and sometimes can have even better results. PM me if you have more questions about this, or want to know some books recommendations for you guys.
I think what's missing here is reciprocal respect. He is trying to manipulate you through threats and other means. A lot of men do that in relationships, although to a smaller level. It's tough, but it can be worked out. But he has to want to work on it as well, and it'll take a while for him to see his errors.
@Ouch: Totally NOT off the mark. Yes, people are entitled to differing viewpoints, but you want to make sure that your views align (esp re: issues like this with such a fundamental disagreement and the major effects it could have on raising children, especially a homosexual child).
No, your FI does not fight fair at all, he seems to have many double standards, and there needs to be some sort of system in place to 'call a time out' and resume when both parties have calmed down and rationally thought through what they'd like to say. Not that name calling is good, but really, he is a bigot, so I liken it to be saying 'your'e being a bigot' (he is), not just inflamitory name calling like 'you're such a B*@&%' or things of that nature.
I'd look into Skype/phone counseling, if that's an option, but only after you seriously consider if this is the type of man that you want to be married to. I'm not saying that he should never be married due to his stance, but you both need to find someone that has similar views or can at least agree to disagree fairly and respectfully, and have a settled 'game plan' for how to address the issue when kids come into the mix. *hugs*
It's not fair for him to hold you to a higher standard than he holds himself. The fighting isn't as concerning to me as the fact that maybe he's just not who you thought he was, values-wise. He seems kind of selfish and intolerant.
@Ouch: You should never, ever, EVER be afraid (even a little bit) when fighting with your future husband. Ever. Trust your intuition. If he was raising his voice, invading your personal space, and trying to manipulate you into being his (metaphorical, at least at this point) punching bag for when he's angry, that is NOT OK. Even at the very beginning of your post, I was thinking that I could absolutely not be with someone who is bigoted, but your description of his behavior (punishing you for disagreeing with him by withholding a blanket?!? That is so manipulative, emotionally abusive, and wrong) just solidified it for me.
This isn't just a situation where he lost his temper; it's him displaying a pattern of abusive behavior--from the emotional manipulation to the punishment and down to the apology (which is not really an apology because he is very clearly still placing the blame on you--"I'm sorry for not giving you the blanket, but my reaction was really within your control all the time, since I only withheld it because you walked away, and if you walk away right now (to go to work), I will be justified in continuing to act like a dick to you."
Some may think my advice is extreme, but if you do any research on the cycle of abuse, your fiance seems to fit the pattern perfectly. I am really concerned for where this relationship is headed, actually. Congratulate yourself for recognizing abusive behavior before it turns physically abusive and knowing on a gut level that it is wrong. Trust your intuition and choose yourself. Good luck, and please keep us posted.
@mckernae: I agree. I sometimes feel that the Hive can be quick to jump to 'he's abusive, leave him,' but being familiar w/ the cycle of verbal/emotional abuse, this post raised some prelim flags for me as well. He may be totally able to recognize his behaivors as wrong and change them, but he sounds like he's very set in this pattern, not one to respect others' opinions, and is only going to keep at this way of dealing with issues (or escalate, as evidenced by the close-proximity yelling).
@Ouch: I didn't mean it in a snarky way (if that's what you thought!) just some ladies post here looking to validate their feelings or choices, and I was wondering if you were thinking of staying vs. leaving.
Of course, it's so easy for anyone (myself included) to say run baby run, but in real life it's much more difficult and complicated than that. I feel for you; I really wouldn't want to be put in your position :(
I think all couples should discuss these types of issues before they get married. It is important to know how each other feels before you say "I do". Many divorces happen because after they are married couples realize they have different views on major issues and then the fighting begins. This is usually the type of things that come up in premartial counseling but not always. I also recommend reading a book about marriage / communication / and compability. Marriage is hard work.
@NDBee: Thank you for your post. I'm usually not one to jump on the "he's abusive!" bandwagon (most of the time when I respond, the abuse is very straightforward and I am genuinely concerned for the life of the op), but in this instance, the OP outlined so perfectly the complete cycle of abuse that I just had to comment on it.
Certain aspects of his behavior at alarming and borderline abusive. There are two issues here,
The first is the way your Fi reacts to you during a fight isn't healthy. While things can be said in heat of the moment, him saying things about your relationship that had nothing to do with the fight is beyond hurtful. Him not allowing to walk away and end the arguement, and finally him screaming in your face and refusing to let you take a cover. He is your partner not a parent, and he seem to be attempting to punish you in a very parental fashion. Finally your fear, I've had a few very heated arguments with my Fi who is five inches taller then me and 6'3 and works out, I've never once felt mildly threaten in an arguemnt.
The second issue is you guys seem to have wildly different ideas on this issue, I agree with you by the way that he is bigoted. It will effect who you interact with, if you have friends and family members who are gay, and what will happen if you children who don't conform to gender norms or ends up gay. I think when you have fundemntal differences in your life view, it can cause lots of issues.
I think only you can decided whats right for you. If I was in your shows I would at the very least take the engagement or wedding date off the table. So there is no pressure and you can make a clam rational decision about your future without the pressure of a wedding looming. Good luck, and I'm sorry about your whole situation
um...i can't believe he wouldn't let you take a blanket. to me, that's the biggest issue here!
lol sorry if that seems trivial, but i really don't think it is!
@MsMonkey: I agree. Aside from personal feelings (which you don't have to agree with and everyone is entitled to) I don't see anything that can't be fixed. Someone already suggested churches. Most pastors, preists etc have experience in maritial counselling and could probably help you communicate effectively and learn to fight. My FI and I have had our share of nasty fights over the years, but most of them were in the early days. We've learned how to speak to each other. It sounds like that's something you guys could do too.
As far as the toys and gay issue, that's something you have to decide you can live with. My FI holds more convervative views than I do but we've learned how to manage that. We don't have to agree and it's interesting to see an opposing viewpoint (even if he's wrong, lol).
If you really want to, it can probably be salvaged, but you would both have to put a lot of work into the relationship before marraige. That's what all relationships are though. They're all work!
He does not know how to argue maturely and effectively which means listening to the other person entirely.
However, with the gay issue, i honestly dont think its a big deal. You can work through that. My SO is a total homophobe. He does not like gay people at all. One of my dear friends is gay and i love her to death. Clearly i have never had an issue with homosexuals. Dont get me wrong, he doesnt agree with my friends lifestyle but he thinks she is great person and they get along well. I told him Rick Mercer was gay and he cant look at him anymore. His parents are the same. If our child was gay he would probably disown him/her. He would never let his son play with a Barbie. Ever.
That being said, i dont find this to be an issue. It bothers me that his is homophobic, but its his issue not mine. And if our kid WAS gay, I would support them no matter what he chose.
I think the main issue here is his temper. And I cant think of a moment where I have ever been scared when arguing with my SO. So you may want to seek some form of pre-marital counselling so you can both learn some skills. Clearly you are posting on this forum because you can see there is much BIGGER issue here than a difference of opinion.
The first thing I thought about was how you guys had never discussed homosexuality before. It seems like it's a black and white issue for him, and it isn't for you. For me, personally, that's a deal breaker. But it's different because you are having this conversation now, while you are in love, and while you are planning a wedding.
I dont think your husband is abusive. I think that your fighting got out of hand and it shocked you that he was at a 10, not that you were actually fearing him.
I know your town is small, but you cant fix your fighting problems without seeking outside help. It doesn't work that way. You guys need someone that you trust and is a professional to sit down with you and analyze it.
Geez, how old is he? Like seriously...
Do what you think is right deep down inside. I wouldn't stand for it, but that's because I'm very passionate about gay rights and I'd never be involved with someone so incompatible with me on that aspect.
Do what you feel you have to do, though, whether that's sticking it out and working on it or going your seperate ways. I do think you should seek counseling SOMEHOW. Weigh the pros and cons and give some serious thought to whether you're compatible morally or not and how much this means to you. Good luck!
IMO, there is one huge red flag here.
Him not letting you have a blanket. It's not about the blanket, it's what is underlying. That is CRUEL, manipulative and abusive. You don't do that to someone you love.
Marriage and love should not hurt....
Sorry you are going through this.
I would put the wedding planning on hold while you figure this out. I agree with PP who think this is controlling and borderline abusive. It sounds like there's a real power disparity in your relationship--his talking over you but getting angry if you do the same, refusing to let you take a blanket, and pinning all the blame on you if you were to break up b/c you had the audacity to go to work all tell me that he cares more about himself and rationalizing his own actions and feelings than he does about treating you as a respected equal.
There are healthy ways to fight--my DH and I have had a few big fights in our 2.5 years of living together when one or both of us wanted to sleep separately. But no matter how mad he was he always insisted that I got the bed, even if I was the one who wanted to sleep apart from him. It always ends up with me pulling out blankets and pillows from the closet and worrying he'll be cold or uncomfortable...we have yet to actually sleep apart for a full night, because even in the midst of fighting we're still showing that we care about each other: he loves me too much to stay in bed while i'm sleeping on the floor, and I know I can't win that battle so I try to make it up by making sure he's comfortable and warm.
There's nothing in what you wrote that makes me think this can't be worked out. It's a question of whether or not your FI recognizes that this is an unhealthy dynamic and will work hard to change it, or whether he feels that his treatment of you is vindicated. My guess is that he reacted so defensively in your argument because he already half knows that he's wrong about the notion that people can 'choose' whether to be gay or can be 'turned gay' by their parents. If it's an idea that he grew up with or has held for a long time it will probably take a while for him to change his mind, and getting angry about it won't help--if anything, it'll make him dig in his heels. Some thought-provoking reading material would likely be far more effective. I understand why you were offended and even revolted by his opinions and reacted the way you did--but I can also understand why he would have experienced your reaction as a profoundly hurtful rejection of his character. He expressed a deeply held opinion and you basically told him he's a flawed human being and you hold his views in contempt (at least, that's what calling someone a bigot means to me). Cue anger and a feeling of betrayal on both sides.
I really do think you're totally in the right here. But the fact that your FI holds contemptible views doesn't necessarily make him a contemptible person--let's be honest, most of us have grandparents/parents who at some point probably held equally or more offensive views and maybe still do. I suspect from his reaction that he interpreted your rejection of his point of view as a rejection of him. I think clarifying this to him might help a lot.
Good luck! I hope it all works out for you. If he has a good heart and he's normally a generous and loving person, I'd bet that once he's more aware of his behavior toward you he'll work hard to fix it. If he doesn't then I guess you have your answer.
I'm just grabbing a few minutes to check in -- thank you all so much for your words and I've read every one of them.
I agree that there are two issues here, the bigotry and the fighting in general. His feelings on homosexuality seriously irk me, especially because he's so convinced that he is right, but I believe that isn't a dealbreaker for us. I realize that sounds bad, but in the grand scheme of things I don't think it's a HUGE issue.
The fighting, on the other hand, is a serious issue. I agree that setting out actual rules to follow would help, and we have tried to do that in the past, but maybe another try will work. I would gladly hear any suggestions for helpful books, and I'll consider the church aspect although it gives me a bit of pause because we aren't religious or affiliated with any church in town. I'm going to seriously research if there are any counselling options available locally or intensive weekend kind of things we could travel to because there is no way I am going to be able to sort this out on my own.
To address my fear -- it was a purely physical reaction, down to the core. I just felt like I had to get out of there. Later on, downstairs, in the midst of harsh words being exchanged I ended up locking myself in the bathroom because I needed to be alone. I think I need to seriously set boundaries and say, I will not engage in fighting with you after I say I am done, and I am willing to revist it later when we're calm but NOT in the middle of things, not after I try to walk away.
I've been through an emotionally abusive relationship before and it doesn't feel the same but I recognize how easily I can fall into that trap, and I am fully aware that there is something very wrong with my relationship as it sits right now.
I am, at the moment, hoping this is something that can be corrected and righted with effort. I don't think I'm willing to just give up now without taking a stab at fixing it -- I hope I'm not being one of those girls who keeps going back one more time, over and over, however. I still feel conflicted, and honestly, devastated.
I should mention that I am certainly no angel when it comes to us fighting and there have been times where I have been the instigator, though not to the point of following him around insisting on fighting. I believe I can be more calm when it comes to conflict and as I said, I'm going to try really hard to just walk away and leave things rather than get sucked into the anger.
@Ms. Meowerson: That's actually what really upset me! I mean, he had FOUR. It just seems like a 'no you can't have basic comfort' kind of thing. Just ridiculous punishment.
@GoldfishPie: I'm sorry for being so defensive! I'm very tired and on edge and I misread your comment, so my sincere apologies are in order.
I really think you should look deeper into the bigotry he displayed during this conversation. His reaction was exactly that--bigoted and it sounds like he may also be homophobic. I am not a great fighter, in that I have a hard time not thinking I"m right, so I can't really speak to that.
I would be really concerned if my FI were saying those things about sexuality being a choice. I never understand this POV...did any straight people stop and think early on and say "Okay, do I want to be straight? Or do I want to be attracted to the same sex? I should go ahead and decide now so I can start being attracted to people". I know I never did, it was innate in me to be attracted to men. Just like I think gay people have it innately in them to find attraction and true love in people of the same sex.
That being said, has he ever voiced other bigoted views about sexuality? It seems that his anger and yelling may point to the fact that he's almost scared or something of gay people. Or that he doesn't understand. But clearly, he doesn't support it. I would worry about the clashing views. What if one of your children were gay? You wouldn't think twice about who they chose to love, but would your husband be wanting to disown them? What sort of position would that put you in?
Additionally, does he have the bigoted views about other things? This semi-violent reaction would concern me, because I think people like that oftentimes can breed and perpetuate hatred and closed-mindedness with their children if their children are brought up thinking that a certain sexual orientation is wrong.
This is all speculation about how he views other things. I wish I had any advice about the fighting. But the not letting you have a blanket thing is also so petty and just....downright mean. He sounds hot-tempered and irrational when he argues with you. And maybe a little immature (i.e.: "if you leave it's all your fault")
He sounds really immature and controlling. I don't get that he sets rules for you to follow during a fight that he doesn't follow himself, nor do I get that he make you feel like you have to choose between work or your relationship. I would agree that these are red flags of something, whether its that he'll be abusive or that he's just a total jerk I'm not sure. Either way I think there's enough there to think long and hard about the relationship, and counselling certainly seems to be in order.
Re: work or relationship, I feel like he really can't see the long-term here. Like, okay, I can stay in our kitchen and fight for an hour and not get ahead and quite literally lose my job, or I can go to work and do what I need to do as a responsible adult and THEN deal with the rest of my life.
There have always been weird double standard things that drive me nuts, but maybe that's a part of him being older than me. Sometimes I think he looks at me like a little girl, someone who is naive and he knows better than, because there are several years between us. Just a theory.
I have never actually seen him interact with anyone on the LGBTQ spectrum, though he has told me stories about hanging out with gay friends in his hometown. He is not bigoted in any other way that I'm aware of, but look how aware I was of his issues with gender roles... who knows.
It sounds like he does not respect you. My husband is several years older than me, but has never made me feel like a little girl -- and I was a teenager when we met! He values my opinions very highly (probably more than anyone else in his life), even when we disagree he will always listen to my views respectfully.
You calling him bigoted was not exactly calling him a name -- more of an accurate description -- but that is splitting hairs, and as pp have said, what the fight was about doesn't really matter. His behavior was completely unacceptable, regardless of the subject. Although, the subject itself just makes him look stupid -- there is sound neurological evidence to support your opinion, and fighting so fiercly about such an issue when you haven't even bothered to do cursery research is pig-headed. Again, not really about the issue so much as how atrociously he handled it.
I am so sorry you are dealing with this, but better now than after marriage. Could you do counciling over Skype? Maybe you could contact someone in the nearest big city and see if they offer this. Good luck to you.
@Jade33: I do agree that the issue is very much bout the fact that he fights dirty/inappropriately. But the thing that stuck out to me in the OP's post was that she clearly is supportive of LGBT lifestyles, rights, choices, etc. What stood out to me was thinking into the future: if the OP was so horrified by the fact taht her husband was convinced (and then digging his heels in to support his views and couldn't be reasoned with) taht sexuality was a choice, what would she do if this issue arose in her own child's life? If she feels so strongly that gender roles shouldn't matter with children and that boys can play with dolls or girls with action figures, not having your spouse support that or--worse--saying something like "he can't play with dolls, he'll become gay/ a f*g (which, sadly, I've heard a homophobic cousin of mine say this about his own son. Also, taht if his son were gay, he'd disown him and never speak to him again) within earshot of the child...that's a pretty bad situation for that child to grow up in. I think in these times where sexuality is getting more and more of a voice--and rightly so, IMO--it's especially important to know that your spouse supports your views and how you would treat/deal with your childs sexuality. If I knew FI would disown our hypothetical gay child, I don't know that I'd stay with him/have kids with him.
The blanket thing worries me the most, but I agree with PPs who say these are two issues that can be fixed with time. The fighting thing is something that you two can learn to do better, with books, with counseling, even with experience. The problem is that you need to feel safe the whole time and neither of you should be able to control the other person (as in, no one should have to be cold as punishment for leaving the bed).
I think that his views on homosexuality are wrong, but I think they are understandable.
For one thing, I have yet to meet someone who has had a deep conversation on sexuality with me who has said "I was never curious about other girls/boys." I think it's natural for many people to be sexually curious without actually being homosexual; if you have felt that curiosity but not the drive to have a homosexual relationship, I can imagine hearing people argue that homosexuality is a choice and being like, "Yeah, I had a chance to choose to be gay but I chose to be straight" instead of realizing that what you experienced was not the same thing as a genuine drive.
I also imagine that some of these people were disturbed and upset by their own curiosity about people of their gender and shut those feelings down immediately. That would lend credence to the "choice" idea.
I can also imagine that it then follows that allowing children to fall out of their traditional gender roles will make it so children don't feel the need to choose to be straight, or that they won't have the fortitude to choose to be straight and will be more susceptible to temptation. It's even a thought that these kids get bullied for being "gay" because of their stray from the traditional, and they just hear it so much that they embrace it and "turn gay."
Again, I'm not saying I agree with these things. I just understand how you can logically come to the conclusion when there's an article out every other month about whether or not homosexuality is nurture or nature, using the same tired studies to argue both ways.
Your FI says he wouldn't mind if his kids are gay but he doesn't want to make them gay. I can understand that fear. There is no way to not sound bigotted when I say this, but though I will love my children if they are gay and support them and be thrilled for them when they find mates and start families and fight for them every step of the way, I don't want them to go through what my gay friends go through. I don't want them to be bullied for that reason. I don't want them to be discriminated against, for their marriages to not be recognized in most states, for their legal rights when it comes to their partners and families to be so insecure. I don't want that for them. And I can understand your FI being terrified that he would do something to make his children go through those hardships if he believes it's possible to "turn" someone gay.
It would be a big problem for me if he said that he has an outright problem with gay people and no son of his will ever be gay. But the kind of bigotry he's displaying is more about ignorance than it is malice. And ignorance can be changed. People can learn and be enlightened.
although i dont agree with his opinion on being or choosing to be gay i do think he is entitled to his own opinion and its not fair to call him names because hes not agreeing with you
my husband isnt comfortable with gay people, hes much better now than he was a couple of years ago but its not his choice of topic but then again he refuses flat out to be an organ donor and ive had to sign forms to ensure that i am because he wont agree to it - both make me want shake him because i cant understand how the good person that i know him to be can think this way but he is entitled to his opinion. doesnt make him a bad person
i think OP and her FI need to learn to argue fair and at some point to step back and say its ok to agree to disagree.
oh and to annoy my brother one year every single family member bought his son a barbie for christmas because of his attitude - both nephew and brother survived, nephew is hetro and brother learnt to chill the f*** out about boys playing with dolls
I'm gonna go ahead and chime in here and say these are some major red flags, be careful. Sorry to be lame and log out of my regular username, but it'll make more sense if you go to my original post on this username.
Your long update is bad deja vu for me. It started out with little things where he disrespected me, and would get in my face. Double standards where he could get angry and raise his voice, but if I did I was being a "bitch." I, like you, wasn't always an angel either; I would follow him around and make him keep talking to me, because in my mind the fight wasn't over. He had a temper and we never learned how to "fight fair," as we never had any pre-marital counseling or talks about it before marriage. I thought it was something we could work on ourselves. We would talk about it, agree to try to fix it, but the next fight it would happen again. This lasted about a year-- until it turned physical. I in no way mean to scare you but seriously, read my post and see what it can escalate to, and stop it in its tracks if you can. I'm not saying this isn't something that can be fixed; DH is going through some intensive counseling/therapy/etc. to work on his issues and our situation is a lot more extreme than yours. I'm just trying to emphasize that it's important you deal with this and learn to fight fair before it escalates and becomes a pattern of behavior.
The LGBTQ part of it is a whole different issue...
I know you said you don't have counselors close by, but pre-marital counseling sounds like it would be really, really important for you guys. Maybe even one of those "100 questions before you get married" type of books would help. If you are just learning about his opinions on sexuality now, there may well be other important issues and values that you haven't discussed yet.
In particular, I would be worried that a man who believes in strict gender roles for children and is stubborn (just going off this one incident) would also be of the "wives should do as their husbands say" persuasion.
Hi everyone,
We emailed it out today -- sounds weird but we communicate best in writing. He felt like me calling him bigoted was, as a PP said, rejecting him and that's apparently why he lashed out at me so heavily as he got this totally crazy assumption in his head that I was just looking to find a way to get out of our relationship (totally off base).
I explained that I had a major problem with his statements but not him as a person, and he told me about how his own childhood shaped his perceptions of gender roles and homosexuality. He said that while he doesn't want to do anything to 'turn' a child gay, he also doesn't want to do anything to affect a child's sexuality at all.
Things are obviously not perfect and will require a lot of work. The blanket thing still gives me pause. We're going to work on our problems, hopefully with the help of a pro in some capacity.
Thank you all for your help and input!
Ask him when he chose to be straight. He might realize sexuality is not a choice. He never chose, and neither does anyone else.
@Ouch: I am glad you guys are working everything out. There are alot of people, including my DH sometimes, that work better in writing things out. It is easier to be rational and level headed in writing sometimes. So happy you two are getting to a better place.
Early in our relationship, my DH and I had problems with fighting. We ended up setting out "rules" for when we argue. They included no sarcasm, no name calling, and no leaving the house (leaving the room if things were uncomfortable was fine, but no taking off in a vehicle). We also agreed that neither of us would mention leaving or divorce unless our bags were packed. It didn't always work, but it really helped us develop a more civil way of hashing out arguments and eliminated some of the roller coaster ride feelings about our relationship. Good luck!
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I'm a regular bee posting anonymously so I that can be totally honest.
Last night my fiance and I were talking in bed about something innocuous and it turned into a discussion about whether it's okay for kids to play with whatever they want -- boys playing with dolls, Barbies, that kind of thing. My fiance started in on a spiel about how he thinks gay people choose to be gay, that they can be 'turned' gay by playing with non-gender-matched toys, being sexually abused, so on and so forth.
I found this ridiculously offensive and just plain wrong, based on what I know from LGBT friends and family. The conversation wasn't going well and I asked him if we could stop talking about it. He kept on talking and I ended up calling him bigoted. I told him, again, that I didn't want to talk about it. He kept going and raised his voice, right near my face, and although he's never shown the tiniest bit of violence towards me I felt a bit scared having him so loud right near me so I got out of bed and told him I was sleeping downstairs. I tried to get a blanket off the bed and he said that if I was going to sleep elsewhere by choice then I couldn't have a blanket, despite the fact that he had four on the bed.
After about five, ten minutes of me being downstairs, he came down and said something to the effect that it's not fair for me to walk away after calling him names (i.e. bigoted) and that he didn't feel like we were compatible, that he didn't want to get married to me anymore. I asked him why, when he asks for time to walk away from an arguement, I'm suppose to abide by it, but I'm not allowed to get out of a situation I feel uncomfortable with. He told me that if he calls me a name I can keep fighting with him until I'm done, which I really don't think would actually happen in real life.
Later on he came down and gave me a blanket and said he was sorry for saying hurtful things but I didn't really acknowledge him.
Cut to this morning when he asks me what's up because I'm avoiding contact with him. I told him that I was really upset, that he was the one who talked about wanting to leave me, and besides that, I'm going through some tough feelings after finding out a high school friend died suddenly. This was about 10 minutes before I had to go to work, so I told him I wasn't ready to talk, that I didn't want to be upset at work. He told me that if I chose work over him in this situation and we broke up, that it would be my mistake and my fault. We fought all the way to work.
We are really, really awful fighters. I tried to be as calm as possible through all of this but his double standards make me so frustrated -- for instance, he insists that I not talk over him but he constantly interrupts and cuts me off. I'm particularly upset that he lashed out and said he doesn't want to get married to me, because to me that doesn't seem like a fair thing to hold over someone.
When we aren't fighting, things are wonderful and we go long periods without conflict. We can't get counselling because we live in a tiny town and there are literally no counsellors around, within a three hour radius, but if we could, I'd go. I don't know what to do now. I'm not sure how to bounce back from having awful things slung at me and frankly I'm not sure if I should even stay. I don't know if this is a cycle that's going to continue and I don't want to bring kids into a household where mom and dad say terrible things to each other.
I'd appreciate any input at all, even that of the tough love variety. I just need the perspective of someone else to help me out.