Post # 1
I just heard this on the News here (CBC Canada)
Canberra passed a Local Law last week to make Same Sex Marriage Legal… and just 5 days later the Australian High Court makes the Local Law invalid.
And all the Marriages that were performed in last few days in Canberra have now been annulled.
CNN – Canberra Same Sex Marriage Overturned = http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/11/world/asia/australia-canberra-same-sex-marriage/
This breaks my heart…
A real step backwards.
Hopefully public protests etc will put pressure on TPTB so that this “wrong” can be rectified and Same Sex Marriage can become 100% in Australia as it is in other Commonwealth Countries
(( HUGS )) to all the LGBTQ Bees from Australia… please know that there are Bees the world over who side with you in this ongoing challenge.
Post # 3
@This Time Round: Not sure whether it’s the same in Canada but here federal laws take precedence over state and territory laws (to the extent there is an inconsistency) where it is an area that both are permitted to legislate on. We unfortunately expected that this would be the HC’s ruling and so did the ACT lawmakers really. I went to a seminar in my state once as a local MP was looking to introduce a state bill to legal same sex marriage under the argument that federal law only legislated on marriage between a man and a woman, not same sex marriage, therefore it was not the same thing and state’s could legislate. It seems though based on this ruling of the High Court that this argument may have failed. Having said that immediately after the HC ruling on this case a MP in the West Australian parliament introduced a same-sex marriage bill that constitutional lawyers have apparently said could not be invalidated. Not sure what they are basing that on though.
Hopefuly all these actions in the states will be enough to show the federal parliament this is something we need changed at their level but given who has been elected into office here I’m not holding my breath. Very disappointing and shameful.
Post # 4
@This Time Round: Though I support same sex marriage, I believe the High Court did exactly the right thing. Marriage is a federal issue, not a state/territory (i.e. Canadian province) issue, so the ACT (Australian Capital Territory) was passing a law in an area it had no jurisdiction over.
I suspect most ACT politicians knew this, and their real reason for passing the bill was to put gay marriage back on the political agenda. In that, they succeeded.
Post # 5
@Lollybags: & @paula1248:
Interesting… BOTH our countries have Parliamentary Systems… but they are slightly different.
I get that Municipalities cannot make such wide sweeping Laws that stick in this instance (that wouldn’t fly here either)
BUT in Canada, some elements of Marriage fall under Provincial Law not Federal… altho Federal could decide the parameters of what constitutes a marriage overall.
So here the movement began in our cities, moved up to our Provinces… and eventually the Federal Govt couldn’t ignore what the citizens wanted… so that ALL the Laws were rewritten (Provincially & Federally)
I am hoping that Australia is blessed in the same way… for sure it takes a grass roots movement (and sadly some brave souls and failed attempts) BEFORE things truly take off and change.
Same Sex Marriage in Canada = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Canada
Post # 6
@paula1248: I agree.
I don’t agree with the decision, I think the LGBTQ community should have the same marriage rights as anyone else, but Federal Law overrides State Law, so the next step is changing the law Federally, which is a big hurdle.
Post # 7
- Wedding: November 2014 - Serafino Wines
I can’t talk about this subject sometimes because I get so rage-y about religion and people in general that oppose marriage equality. While it was pretty much inevitable that this was going to happen (because of what PPs have said), I just felt like absolute crap when I heard that it had been overturned. I just want to scream and cry. It’s quite obvious by now that the sky hasn’t fallen in by same sex couples getting married. Nothing terrible has happened. Somebody PLEASE tell me that your relationship was affected by those 31 couples marrying over the last week. It is plain and simple SELFISH. You do not own marriage and I wish our politicians would wake the hell up. This is what the people want. We desparately need separation of church and state. It makes me so angry how much influence religions still have on government and policies in general, especially in an increasingly non-religious country. You can believe in what ever the flip you want, but you CANNOT force other people to live by your rules when what they do DOES NOT AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.
In their ruling, the High Court did make note of the fact that the definition of marriage is changing throughout the world and so there is scope for changes to the laws in the future. So that is promising at least! We won’t see marriage equality or anything that will move us forward as long as we have our awful Prime Minister Tony Abbott in office. I hate that man with a passion and it makes me sick to think that he is running the country that I love so much. I really hope that I see marriage equality here in my lifetime but with the bigots all over the place, I often lose hope. I love my country but I hate how backwards and behind we are about so many things.
Post # 8
@This Time Round: marriage is under federal jurisdiction in Canada (though property rights and common law couples are under provincial legislation). Where they overlap, there is federal paramouncy.
This is very sad to hear about Australia. Sometimes I think all the commonwealth are like Canada, lol. I didn’t even realize that same sex marriage wasn’t legal there. I guess we expanded marriage to include same sex couples as a result of our Charter, which protects some unique rights for Canadians.
Post # 9
@webster: And the further sucky thing is that we have to have the mandatory monitum in our ceremonies just to remind us all that ‘marriage in Australia is between a man and a woman!’ FI and I are definitely having our own response to that read by our celebrant immediately after and a couple whose wedding I went to last month also noted their support for marriage equality too.
Post # 10
@Jacqui90: Actually I’m pretty sure it will happen under the current Prime Minister. Before the 2010 election, the Liberals (the party led by Tony Abbott, who lost in 2010 but won in 2013) had a policy of opposing same sex marriage, which was their justification for opposing it when it was voted on this year (or was it last year?). But at this year’s election, they didn’t announce a policy on it, despite Abbott being personally opposed. This makes me think that Abbott is now able to give his party a conscience vote, and he can justify it to conservatives by telling them he never promised not to give a conscience vote.
[For TTR and other non-Australians: political voting in Australia is strongly along party lines, and politicians will (99% of the time) vote for a policy they’re personally opposed to if their party tells them to. The exception is that for “moral” matters (e.g. abortion, same sex marriage), parties traditionally give members a “conscience vote”, where they’re free to not follow the party line. The problem was the last time SSM was voted on, one of the two major parties did not give a conscience vote but instructed all its members to oppose it, which they did. That is what I mean by next time I expect PM Abbott will allow his party members a conscience vote.]
Post # 11
@paula1248: Oh good, I hope the law gets changed 🙂
Post # 12
To @letigre: True enough…
BUT in Canada we actually have different laws per Province & Territory on how one gets married etc
And Marriages are registered Locally / Provincially
This is part of the reason that our Provinces each enacted Same-Sex Marriages over a different timeframe … Ontario as earlier as 2001… upheld in 2003… while the last of the Provinces & Supreme Court in 2005 (as per my attached reference to Wikipedia)
It was not cut & dry… it was a progression.
Post # 13
- Wedding: November 2014 - Serafino Wines
@Lollybags: Oh I know 🙁 We went to a wedding a few weeks ago and I wasn’t aware of this until then. A member of the bridal party was gay and it was such a kick in the guts to him. I wish we could take it out 🙁 I like your idea about having your own response after it – we may do that! 🙂
Post # 14
@webster: Apparently it is becoming more common now to do it – our celebrant (who I met through working in anti-discrimination law and policy, so luckily we are on the same wave length) says a lot of her couples request something now. There is a great reading that gets used in weddings from a Massuchusetss court ruling on same sex marriage (Goodridge vs the Department of Health) which we have adapted to use as our response to the monitum as well. It makes our position clear that we see marriage as a civil right while at the same time not getting too politically ranty at a wedding.
Post # 15
While marriage is a federal issue, I was sort of hoping that this might be a way for gay marriage to ‘get it’s foor in the door’, so to speak. It’s awful that we do not allow gay couples to be legally married, and I can not think of ONE reason it shouldn’t be legal. A lot of people use religion as their reason, or say it’s unnatural and to that I say the bible also said it was a sin to wear mixed fabircs or cut your hair, and said to love your neighbour, and let those without sin cast the first stone, judge lest ye be judged ect. and while homosexuality is present in over 1500 species, homophobia is only present in 1. It’s not fair! It makes me SO angry that we’re still denying rights to people based on bullshit excuses. I think the truth is that a lot of the people in our government are a bunch of ‘good old boys’ who find it gross and don’t want to think about 2 people of the same gender having sex.
@Lollybags: Oooh! If you don’t mind, could you give me a rough idea for what the officiant will be saying in response to that? We’re getting married soon and have pretty much finished writing our ceremony, but FI and I are both very much for marriage equality and if we could find a way to slip something in there about that then that would be awesome!
Post # 16
@This Time Round: It is actually not a bad thing that it was overturned. It is a process that the very savvy lawyers working on this problem know how to navigate. Basically the high court ruling opens up the possibility of legal action to change the federal laws and to put pressure on the federal government to take it to vote again.
@paula1248: Honestly the only way I can see this passing under a liberal government is if they need to buy votes at the next election. I mean the Abbott Government already has such a stellar record on keeping their promises/policy- can anyone say NBN or Gonski? Not even 3 months in and 2 policy backflips!