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I would tell my FI to suck it up, that I didn't want a jackass standing up for us at our wedding! He can still ask the other two and just be like "well, we only wanted two people and you travel a lot so we thought it would be best if you did something less involved, like being an usher." Or something to that effect.
Your FI should ask the 2 friends he wants to ask and not ask Jackass. If he asks why, have your FI give him the above reasons- if he doesn't respect relationships, you two don't want him to be part of such an important part of your relationship. Obviously your FI could probably sugar coat it a bit so it doesn't sound so harsh... but the thing about choosing the wedding party is that you should have whoever you want standing by you, and don't pick anyone because you feel obligated. The minute you start trying to please everyone else it isn't YOUR wedding anymore, and the day is about you two, not anyone else :)
@MrsCoachBtoBee: I think that is a great suggestion!
I think the key here is that your FI doesn't want Jackass in the wedding party - he shouldn't feel forced to have someone just because he thinks that his friends/other groomsmen would complain. I would bet that the others (particularly if they have serious girlfriends/wives) feel the same way about jackass - they tolerate him for shared sense of history. Find a way to have him minorly involved (usher?), and leave him out of most of the pictures.
yep, trust your instincts and don't include this guy! maybe have him do a reading or something at the wedding if you FI really wants to involve him in some way, but he definitely shouldn't be in the wedding party! great reasons are that he travels so much and seems really busy all the time (ie, screwing around and lying but whatever...) so you thought it would be better to have the guys that you know your FI can depend on.
I wonder why in the world you FI is friends with him! I understand "guy code" is different, and they never judge a fellow "bro", but I am quite sure your FI is nothing like him, so why does he even hang around?
Honestly, I don't know what you should do. Instinct tells me that thou shall never pick your man's bro, but he may be the exception! The truth is that you don't want to be "that girl." You know, that chic that is so controlling that you decide for your man who he should and shouldn't be friends with. Just grit your teeth and think of the big picture. Your FI loves you, he wants to marry you, and you will have a gorgeous wedding and an even more beautiful life together, despite his jerk of a pal.
I'm glad I read your post, because my initial reaction was an indignant, "Well, of course your fiance gets to choose his groomsmen himself! Duh." After reading about Jackass, I think you are totally justified asking your fiance to not make him a member of your wedding party. And if your fiance wants the other two guys to stand up with him, he should just ask them, and explain to Jackass that you guys are keeping the wedding party fairly small.
He should have the other two but not Jackass. If Jackass asks why, then he can be honest - he doesn't believe in monogamous long term relationships, so he cannot stand up for somethign that he doesn't believe in. My bet is that his other 2 friends will be relieved. Maybe he can sit down with the other 2 and ask them what he should do.
I think having him as a guest is bad enough, I don't even know if I would allow him at my wedding if it were me!
@Bellagiobride: I dont completely get it either. FI claims they have fun together despite his craziness. When we graduated from undergrad, Jackass cried b/c he was 'losing his boys' So now no one wants to distance from him for fear of hurting Jackass' feelings.
I love how you guys are calling him jackass too! haha
Well, at least your FI doesn't want him there either. The people who you stand with are people who support your relationship. If my best friend disrespected our relationship and Mr. Tattoo every chance she got, she would not be MOH. She would be lucky to be a guest. Your FI needs to explain to Jackass that while he values their friendship, he cannot have him as a groomsmen while Jackass holds his current opinions on women, relationships, ect.
ETA: I wouldn't MAKE FI choose, but I would sit him down and tell him that while he is free to choose who he wants to choose, remind him that the people who stand up with you are people who are going to support your marriage.
@Aubergold: It is crazy isn't it? it makes no sense, guys always want to dodge talking anything about feelings, even if it means staying in a dead end friendship. Whereas, we girls will not think twice about sitting our slutty friend down and telling her all the reasons she needs to close her legs! that is one reason why women make better friends than men
@Miss Tattoo: that is where I am leaning, I have expressed my feelings to FI and now I can only pray he doesn't punk out and let this heathen man stand for him.
@MrsSl82be: Yes, girl. I dont get it either. These men want to act like they are so much more laidback and better friends than women cause there is less drama in mal relationships apparently. But I see that some of the reason there is less drama is that some men just aren't willing to go there emotionally to really stop each other's disrespectful behavior.
FI is mostly concerned about the tension it will cause in their little rat pack. Which I think is dumb as hell; if there really is less drama amongst men then Jackass will just move on right?
@Aubergold: Honestly, I think it could actually be a great thing for the bunch. He never knows, his other friends might follow suit, and Jackass could be gone permanently. They are a pack, right? So if FI takes the lead and stands up to Jackass, the other guys probably will too, and since they all stand united, you might just be able to be Jackass free!!!
I understand the dilemma. I am not a fan of one of the groomsmen. Rather we are "frenemies" and "play nice"to each other since FI doesn't want the drama. Now that he has chosen the knucklehead to be one of his groomsmen, I want to vomit. The choice of the groomsmen is the one area FI feels "his" in the wedding planning process. I decided to compromise on this one.
I actaully had a very frank talk with the frenemie to let him know that I expect him to act like a grown. I think the guy gets it since he knows I am not dealing with any nonsense. For now, it has worked but we are a year out from the wedding so we shall see. I plan to dirnk plenty of moscato and try to not hurt him 
@Radiant Bride: that is interesting...I wonder if I should talk to Jackass. Who am I kidding, I would either cuss him out or kill him. Not productive.
@Aubergold: I would do the same. Lets just hope your FI doesn't put him in the wedding...
@Aubergold: Just be sure to get rid of the body. As it was said in Psych (the TV Show) "no body, no murder"!) Yeah... I watch waaaay too many murder mysteries, lol.
Seriously, though, you FI should just stand up and tell Jackass what's what. That his attitude and behavior is NOT liked and accepted and to either grow the F up or take a hike. (for the record, that's basically what my FI would do... and I'm putting that nicely.) (In fact, I'm currently HATED by someone my FI knows because I turned said male down and preferred my FI over this guy. However, I also told my FI this person was NOT welcome anywhere NEAR our wedding, and he agreed...)
Sorry you've gotta deal with this. I, personally, would rather have the two others grumbling and no Jackass than having to deal with Jackass.
I wouldn't even be comfortable with my husband hanging out with this guy! He's a misogynist AND he's told your fiance he doesn't understand why he doesn't cheat? ARE YOU F$%*ING KIDDING ME?!?!?
So, short answer is no, he would not be included in our wedding party.
I would tell your FI that you don't understand why he's so concerned with sparing the feelings of someone who is undeniably selfish and so callously ignores the feelings of others.
He should definitely have his two closer friends, and if Jackass kicks up a fuss, he can be told that neither of you felt it was right to have someone stand up in your wedding who has zero regard for monogamy, honesty, and faithfulness. I know your FI will never be willing to actually say that to him, but a girl can dream...
So I officially just made my account so I could respond to you!! I started reading your dilemma and had to take a second look because this could literally be my situation with my FI. His ex-friend actually bad-mouthed me and tried to hit my FI at our other best friend's wedding in Hawaii. We haven't talked to him since then and now that we're engaged...he's trying to "apologize". We talked it out, and we've both agreed that if we don't take a stand against his bad behavior, he'll never figure out it's not OK.
It is your FI's decision, but if he's as tired of Jackass's bad behavior as you are, I'm sure he'll make the right one.
@Aubergold: i feel for you
my FI's best man (yep, best man) sounds similar except he is MARRIED with TWO kids and he cheats on his wife constantly (including with her sister!!!!!)
best man also tried to cheat on his wife with my MOH (which was before FI were engaged so she wasn't MOH yet) but get this, Best Man is almost 40 years old (FI is 35 so they are in the same age range) and MOH is 22 (a few years younger than i am) ugh! really??
he also drinks, A LOT *sigh*
but he is my FI's best friend, so in the end the compromise was that when asking him to be best man FI would have a long conversation with him regarding his conduct at the wedding. also there will be NO bachelor party (FI doesn't want one), instead he is going out with his groomsmen the night before for wings and beer and such and will take that time to AGAIN remind everyone what kind of behavior is expected at the wedding. and FI will not think twice about having anyone removed (including best man) if their behavior gets out of line.
I would tell FI no to having him as a groomsman. Like others have pointed out this guy has actually encouraged your FI to cheat on you - NOT COOL!! And not someone you want standing up with you guys on your wedding day. Yes, I agree the groomsmen should be the guy's choice, but it sounds like your FI doesn't think this guy is the right choice. Personally I think he should ask the other two guys and explain to this guy that he just couldn't ask everyone. I assume jackass also probably thinks marriage is silly and stupid, so FI could use that as a reason why he didn't ask him.
Your potential groomsmen makes mine look like angels, which they are not!! FI's brother wants to control him and resents me as the reason he can't and FI's best friend we'll have to work to keep sober and functioning through the day. Ah - I hate men!! (except the one I'm marrying)
Wow...I wonder if we have the same potential groomsman Jackass?
Sounds exactly like the loser my FI is waffling over. I really hope he doesn't make it in...
Im so happy you guys understand. I dont know what Fi is gonna do, I think Im gonna lay off and just pray ( A LOT)
@Aubergold: It was not a easy conversation with FI's friend! Now, I have to send a little wish that his crazy friend will somehow forget the date and plan a trip out of the country on our wedding day LOL Oh, I wish!
Does Jackass want to be invited to the bachelor party or does he actually want to be a groomsman? Perhaps your FI can reassure him he is invited to the bachelor party and he will not need to stand up there with you. Or can you somehow alter the number of people on each side so that you have even numbers without him there?
Wow. That guy sounds like a real class act. I would feel the same way - but not just about the wedding, I wouldn't want my boyfriend anywhere near a guy who is such a bad influence - trying to get him to cheat?!??! WTF!
If it were me, I would just explain all of those reasons why you don't want someone who clearly doesn't even respect your relationship in your wedding party. Or at your wedding at all!
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Bees, I feel like I am typically a reasonable person (dont laugh). I try to go with the flow for this wedding stuff, I dont want it to be any more stressfull than necessary.
FI has been having a hard time choosing his wedding party. The problem is that FI has three 'good' friends from undergrad. Two of them he really likes and is closer to. The third one is a spawn of satan, the devil, a supreme jackass (his name from here on out).
To say that I hate Jackass does not even adequately describe how I feel about this dude. Let's go ahead and list his offenses, shall we:
-Jackass is a disgusting philandering cheater. This dude goes into long term relationship after long term relationship. Sound nice? NO. He countinually cheats on all his girlfriends. This is not one or two times, he is a CONSTANT cheather. He travels for his job so he cheats with girls from different cities, girls from the club, he will have sex with his exes while in a 'committed' relationship with a new girl. He flies girls out to his city to have sex with them. He recently moved in with another girl; right before he said he has limited time to have as much sex as possible before she moved across the coast for HIM. HE IS DISGUSTING.
-Jackass had tried on multiple occasions to get my FI to cheat. He has told my FI that he doesn't understand why FI wouldn't cheat on me if I could never find out. Apparently that "would never be him" UGH
-Jackass is a mean person. We all went to undergrad together and he has repeatedly disrespected women, calling him bitches to their faces. He took pics of a girl's vag during sex and showed it to his friends. Before FI and I started dating he tried to solicit me for sex (OH THANK YOU LORD JESUS IN HEAVEN FOR DODGING THAT). He was always rude to me; he toned it down when FI and I stared dating.
-Jackass is a tattletale. He was slightly jealous when FI and I started dating cause FI couldn't live the single (i.e., cheating) life with him anymore. He told his father (YES LADIES) that he didn't like me and when his father would visit us during dorms he would be rude to me!!!!! Jackass is a spawn of jackass!!!
-He is very excited about our wedding and always bugs Fi for details. Why? Because he "can't wait for the bachelor party"
So now comes the question, why does FI hang with him right? Well I dont completely understand it myself outside of some dude bond. They played sports together in undergrad, always hung together, they are a part of four group of friends who have stayed relatively close. FI wants the other two guys in his wedding party but not Jackass (read above reasons why) but he feels he can't ask the other guys and not jackass b/c jackass would be hurt and it would be uncomfortable at the wedding. He tells me Jackass is like Phil (Brad Cooper) in The Hangover; he is not the best guy but he is your friend. I want to say that I trust my FI and luckily he has limited his contact with Jackass partly due to the reasons I outlined above.
ANyway let's wrap this up. I am not comfortable having Jackass in my wedding, looking at pics 10 years from now and seeing him. He doesn't not value women or relationships or what FI and I have. I will say that overall is he cares about FI a lot and would go out on a limb for FI; but this guy is disrespectful on a repetitive level. It makes no sense to me to include him on a day which honors two people spending the rest of their lives together. FI says if I want to leave him out, he will, but he can't include the other guys either as he wouldn't be comfortable with that. But now FI is so sad that he can't have the other two guys stand for him. SIGH.
What would you guys do? Should we include Jackass or not? Did I mention he once delivered drugs across country for money? (Mind you he grew up filthy rich with a silver spoon in his mouth; he is disgusting.)