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Honestly - this sounds a lot like stuff me and my cousin and my brother would o growing up.
My brother attempted to light a golf ball on fire in the garage right next to the gasoline cans. All three of us set a fire under the bridge in the woods by my grandpa's house and melted cups and plastic in it. We set little fire crakers off to scare people all the time. My brother and I would rile our dogs up so they'd run around like crazy. We climb up the neighbor's trees. The list goes on and on.
I honestly see it as pretty typical child behavior and the two boys just play off each other. Kids are cruious and like to try new things and explore different posibilities.
its definitely harder when the kids are intelligent, which obviously they are. they have some crazy imaginations!
my advice? call super nanny. haha.
or maybe a mommy helper?
It sounds like they are very intelligent, inventive, creative little guys! I would think that they need a (safe, well-monitored) outlet for their creativity and curiosity. Something mentally challenging like a science program for gifted children or something physically challenging like soccer or rock climbing. Are they involved in any extracurriculars, or do they have any special interests? That's where I would start in looking for activities that will keep them engaged and put their intelligence and creativity to good use.
Also, I kinda laughed reading your post, but they definitely sound like a challenge!
I think it depends on their temperment. I mean, just because they get into stuff doesn't mean they are mean spirited.
It is very important that they understand the consequences of things. If they destroy something it should be THEIR responsibility to clean it up. NOT MOM'S! If they break something, they should have to do chores to earn the money to replace it.
I don't want to get flamed for this, but has she tried spanking. Some kids respond well to it, especially boys when it's done by a man. If he explains what they did wrong, why it was wrong/dangerous/etc. and then spanks them hard enough to hurt but not leave marks.
Also, channeling that energy into something can be very helpful, but sometimes difficult to find something appropriate. Musical instruments? Sports?
Establishing a good routine is essential. Food is always eaten at the table during X-X time, after that no food until snack--if you miss it or misbehave during it, sorry! Some people have a lot of succes with those task boards that supernanny uses. It doesn't work for all families, but it's a good thing to try out. Clearly defined reward/punishment systems.
I've also read that providing quiet spaces that are contained is helpful. Maybe a spot under the stairs with a lot of pillows where all the books, small toys, coloring, etc. stays. It can help kids to learn their own limits and give themselves breaks when they're getting overwhelmed.
Good luck to her. Be firm, be loving!
I'm won't be a mommy until December but I've had friends with kids like this and I've got to agree with Mrs. Spring. Usually kids that do these kind of things need an outlet and yes, it can be expensive to put kids into after school programs but in the long run, so worth it because they'll learn to channel their energy and creativity. I would definitely be looking into activities that are mentally and physically stimulating/challenging for them!
@secondchances: Reading this made me wonder if I am really cut out for motherhood! HOLY MOLY! It's obviously the ADHD that makes them feel like they constantly have to be "into" something, so I would guess that they definitely need to be brought to another child psych dr and be prescribed something like Ritalin.
I'm kind of wondering the same thing as Kala Way about the spanking, because Woah, those are some bad kids! I don't mean to offend anyone on here, and I don't necessarily know that I will be able to spank my children (we're still debating), but my parents spanked me. With a belt! And that fear kept me out of A LOT of potential trouble! I do think kids near to fear something, but maybe not necessarily a spanking or a belt. Although I haven't ruled out spanking because it worked so well for me and my brother and sister. But I genuinely believe that children need to fear some type of consequence. And there wasn't anything that I feared more than my Daddy's belt!
ETA: How does she discipline them now?
They need a constructive, safe outlet where they can put these behaviors to good use. See if there is an activity place for them to go, or maybe a gym where there is a rock wall.
I would put them in organized sports..and hopefully theyll be too worn out to cause too many problems. But these kids sound like terrors, Im surprised your friend isnt ripping her hair out.
I don't think these boys are necessarily bad kids. Kids are naturally curious and creative and those traits should be encouraged by their parents. Are they challenging? Man, it sounds like it! But challenging does not equate misbehaving.
Just think, those kids could grow up to be the next generation's great thinkers or solve some problem that improves the lives of millions. Those kinds of problem-solving and critical thinking skills are a positive, not a negative!
I think having organized super-active activities for these kids to expend their energy on would help a lot. Karate or Tae Kwon Do would help them a lot to expend energy and also learn focus and discipline. They might also get into organized skateboarding or FX biking. That might give them their daredevil fix. I think if they get into these activities, and love them (which I have a feeling, they will) then their mom can then tell them that misbehavior would mean loosing priviledges at these activities.
They sound like they have very little boundaries that work. Spanking might be an option if done by the father. Is he in the picture? If not, I definitely agree with others: they need an outlet. A physical one. They need to run and jump and play, perhaps soccer or other strenuous sport? That energy of theirs needs to be put to good use. Perhaps once their energy drops, they can join a mentally strenuous organization: chess club or mathletes?
I really feel for their mother. I can only imagine.
Um, I wouldn't recommend spanking. Here's the message: Let me beat you for being intelligent and creative. I think you would do better to offer to pay the future therapy bills.
I have two boys and they were very active and imaginative, but not to this degree. It sounds like there is no supervision, I mean, how did they get their hands on all the materials for a volcano project and then have the time to execute it without anyone noticing? And it takes time to find rope and tie the cat to the dog. Where are the parents???
They just need to be supervised and have their energy re-directed in more positive ways. They sound like a handful, but they could grow up and do great things with the right environment. Tell her good luck and I hope she makes it through:)
@secondchances: I'm going to join what seems to be the minority and suggest that what these boys need is discipline more than anything else at this point. I don't see what they're doing as inventive, clever, or imaginative at all. Causing a fire? Feigning drowning? Tying the dog to the cat? In all honesty, it seems kind of antisocial to me. I would recommend not only discipline from both parents (if both parents are in the picture) and maybe even some kind of counseling.
I'm not suggesting that they're bad kids. But they are definitely displaying extremely bad behavior, and their mom needs to find out where that's coming from.
I'd recommend separating the two as much as possible. Seems like they feed off each other. I would look for activities that they can do on their own and even separate extra curricular activities because chances are they'll be easier to handle on their own. I would also look for classes at different times that way when one is gone the other is home and vice versa. This may make it so the time they do spend together is fun, instead of being bored enough to cause trouble.
@LpCutiPie: Totally agree! They feed off of eachother.
That poor woman. Take thier individual interests and sign them up for something. They may be more calm when they are interested in what they are doing (notice how quiet they are when they are getting into trouble, but they are interested in what they are doing!)and SEPARATED!
Some of what they are doing is disturbing, but see how they do separated and go from there. ALSO they definately need serious discipline when they do dangerous, hurtful things. That could turn into something even more heinous. Don't let them know that it is ok to do dangerous things like that.
@secondchances: Wow. They definitely sound like 2 handfuls!!
It seems to me like they need some rules and boundaries. Their behavior is extreme for little boys. It concerns me that they can escape and the mom has NO idea where they are? I mean, I am sure they are challenging, but if you have kids like that, you adjust -- childproof locks on doors and windows, maybe?
It sounds like they are in serious need of some basic rules/consequences for breaking those rules. ADHD is not an excuse for bad behavior, I'm sorry. DH displayed symptoms growing up (although he was never diagnosed or anything), and MIL worked hard to make sure he followed the rules. Believe you me, if he faked his own drowning, that would have been the end to the pool and he would have been writing a letter of apology to the neighbor too.
Thanks for all the great feedback. To answer some questions posed. No the father isn't in the picture. Believe me we should all be very glad he isn't. He turned out to be the type you wouldn't want around your kids. Nor does he pay child support, once they start docking his pay he switches jobs.
My friend works hard to support her three kids. Her baby has a birth defect and requires extra care which is where she is during some of their stunts (though they were told to stay put). They are involved in an after school program while mom is at work but by the end of her day she is too wiped out to get them involved in much else plus the baby takes up a lot of her time. She does discipline them and has used all the methods recommended by counselors.
They aren't bad boys they just are inventive. The dog and cat didn't get along so they were trying to help. At their afterschool program if they fight with another kid then they are buddies that day and the next in line and therefore have to hold hands. They thought this would work for their pets.
They aren't allowed out of her sight for more than five minutes unless it is an emergency with her youngest. Yes at six in the morning they did make a run for it next door but everyone has to shower sometime. The fire marshall recommended against keylock deadbolts as he feels that would be more dangerous. They are not allowed to use the neighbor's pool.
I do like the idea of seperating them and wonder how old you need to be to join the big brother program? It would seperate the boys and may give them a stabilizing male influence. Their grandfather is dying of cancer and their uncle is stationed overseas so they have none. They are involved in their church but they are still too young for most things.
I know she is always looking for free activities for them as money is so tight. I wonder how much karate costs and maybe enough friends could chip in to get her boys in? I guess it would depend on the cost.
Thanks so much for your thoughts.
Big Brother/Big Sisters would be such a great opportunity for them! She could contact her local chapter, but in our area, they start children as young as five.
Also, she might look into programs at the local YMCA or rec centers. They often have really cheap sports and activities for kids school-aged and up.
ETA: I had another thought about the locks on the doors. I've seen these alarms before that you can attach to your door/windows. They go off if the door or window is opened, but they don't lock the door in any way, so it's not a risk during emergencies. Like this one:
If you look on amazon, there's a ton of different kinds for really cheap. That might help at least keep their mother aware of when they leave the house unsupervised.
I work for my local Big Brothers Big Sisters, and I agree that it would be great for them, especially since they don't have a positive male in their lives. We will start kids at 5 1/2 but they won't be matched until they turn 6. Every local agency is different, but there tends to be a waitlist for boys, so the sooner she gets them enrolled, the better! Here's the website: www.bbbs.org
First, there are no "bad" kids. They might do "bad" things, but what is actually meant when you say "bad" is unsafe, scary, harmful things. They don't know the consequences of their behaviors, since they are kids and can't always think things through.
They need an outlet for their energy. Defnitely. Lots of structured, safe activities. I know it's easy to get into crisis management mode, and finding the energy (and courage) to get them out of the house and plan something structured can be overwhelming, but it's really what they need. Karate, soccer, science club, etc... They need exercise for both their minds and their bodies.
They need education about some of the more serious things they have done and the natural consequences (broken bones, hurting someone, hurting themself, damaging property).
I'm not a fan of spanking, but think that it can be appropriate for those instances where they do something that really puts their safety or that of others in danger. They need to know what it's for, and it needs to be done planfully, as opposed to in the heat of the moment. Never anywhere but their butts, and never with anything but your hand.
They might need medication for ADHD if they are both appropriately diagnosed and nothing else works.
It sounds like they are really a handful, but it does seem like they are smart kids with too much energy.
Mom probably could use some help for a few hours a week too, so she can get stuff done while they are still being supervised.
Also, if they are getting up without her knowing (in the morning or after naps) then she needs to block their windows and put an alarm on the doors. She needs to know when they are leaning their bedroom and if they are leaving the house.
I am a school psychologist in NJ and the first thing I would say to her is that she is not alone! I work with a lot of children with similar profiles (bright and have various diagnoses such as ADHD). I am sure that she has spoken to her doctor regarding medication and that medication is a very personal decision that can be made between a family and the family doctor. Regarding supports, it varies from state to state. In NJ I recommend parents to contact a state run agency that is actually run through the Division of Youth and Family Services called Perform Care that assigns families in crisis (which it sounds like with her) to counselors and behaviorists that come into the home and aide children and families. I assume that she is in MD but every state has services so ask questions and search the internet. I would also question about how their behavior is in school. If it is a school based issue, she can contact the district Child Study Team to complete an evaluation determine eligibility for services within the school system. Good luck to her and good luck to the boys!
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My friend is in desperate need of advice and asked me to request your all's help. (She dare not sit at the computer long.) She has two boys that are ADHD. They are the brightest boys you will ever meet but they are complete handfuls. You dare not take your eyes off them for a second. They are very inventive.
They repelled down from their mom's bedroom window and broke bones while she was throwing a load of wash in. They tied the dog up to the cat to make them be friends (and got bit and scratched in the process requiring stitches) while she was changing the baby's diaper. They duplicted the volcanoe project from school on a large scale and it cost big $ to clean up. They went over to the neighbor's in ground pool and played drowned and the man had a stroke. (It was six am she was in the shower and didn't know they were up.) They were in boy scouts and were taught about rubbing two sticks together to start a fire which they did in the middle of the night and started a fire on their bed. (I didn't even think that really worked! They were pulled out of boy scouts.) They climbed down an abandoned well while visiting their grandparents and couldn't climb out, there was a community wide search for them (someone was giving her a break). The list goes on and on.
They have been at it since they were babies. They crawled by 9 months. They would throw themselves out of cribs at 8 months. There has never been a safe place to put them. She has been afraid to go to the bathroom or even sleep for years now.
She has taken them to doctor's/psychiatrists and the general opinion seems to be boys will be boys. She needs a break but no one wants to keep her little terrors. I tried once but I am not brave enough to do it again. Has anyone else ever seen or heard of boys like this? They are always very repentant and never committ the same crime twice but they come up with new one's every day. Does anyone have similar stories, advice, something to cheer her up? At the very least can you keep her in your prayers?