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Mr V & I are both Christian. So of course, we are not sleeping together. We talked about what we wanted, what our convictions were, what we thought was ok etc, and it's been fine - enjoyable and fun and we've never been tempted to actually have sex (though we are both confident it will be awesome!).
I have started wondering lately, though. Originally I was part of a quite evangelical/conservative church - where couples didn't even kiss until the wedding (based on their own convictions). And it kinda makes sense to me - avoiding lust, sensuality, and sexual immorality (e.g. Matthew 5:28 and 18:6, Ephesians 4:19, Colossians 3:5).
On one hand, I feel fine with what we do (which is quite a lot, to be honest) - our motivations aren't for our own sexual pleasure, and I don't walk around feeling guilty. But I'm wondering if the Holy Spirit is tapping me on the shoulder, since I've started second guessing. I'm pretty sure that, biblically, we shouldn't sleep in the same bed - which we do, about twice a week - because of not giving the appearance of sinning. But *we* know (and my family knows, not sure what he's told his) we're not, so I kind of ignored that one (and to be honest I'd rather give up some other stuff than that! But I guess that's not the point :P).
I just need a little spiritual encouragement/guidance. I don't feel like I can talk to even my close friends from my original church (I moved cities a few months ago) because our convictions differ so much, and I'm a little shy to talk to anyone in my new church about it still.
Anyone else have similar issues/decisions to make? Words of advice? I want my clean conscience back 
Hi Velveteen, I'm not sure you're interested to hear a non-Christian point of view, but if it helps I grew up in a pentecostal church and there was a time (long, long ago) when I also felt compelled to "save myself."
Your comment that your "motivations aren't for sexual pleasure" and that you "don't walk around feeling guilty" don't ring true with me. If you weren't feeling guilty, you wouldn't feel compelled to seek guidance, right? And if your actions aren't for sexual pleasure, what are they for?
You can paint it a different color, but the fact of the matter is that you and your boyfriend/fiance are two humans in love who are experiencing one another in very normal ways. The joy you feel in sharing a bed with him (sex or no sex) makes perfect sense. Regardless of how far you take it, this is intimacy.
Clearly the teachings of your religion and the Bible are very important to you. I would encourage you, however, to take some time to search your heart to determine if there's anything inside (not inside scripture, but in the deepest parts of your soul) that tells you what you are doing is wrong.
I think we have a lot of answers within us, and often times the noise (of family, friends, society at large, and yes, even the church) cloud our own good judgement.
Best of luck to you! I really wish you the best in your relationship and the peace you find with yourself.
Hm. I thought I'd posted something here and i guess it never popped up. But now i've lost my train of thought
Long story short, I brought this issue to my father. He said we have a conscience and that we should listen to that. He also told me that marriage is essentially the committed love between us and THAT is the most important thing. What's in our hearts and minds and what we feel. My father told me that my husband and I were already essentially married when we decided TO get married. We just weren't going to rush through the ceremony to get the state to acknowledge it.
I dunno, I had it all stated so eloquently earlier, boo. I'm Christian, but i'm non-denominational. I'm more of a spiritual person than a church-goer b/c I struggle with what *other people* (much like the PP said about the noise of others) think including the churches. I find that sometimes my personal beliefs are not that of other peoples and that I don't necessarily fit. And by not fitting, I'm going against my conscience also which I can't logically do sometimes as I'm not being true to my beliefs.
Again, sorry for the sucky post. I really had it thought out much more carefully earlier.
OH. Also. Keep in mind that getting married does not suddenly take away those *guilty sex* feelings. Sometimes I struggle with that still. That even though I'm married, I feel like it's bad and want to check myself first.
For the record, we took a 13 month break before the wedding. He was military and I was worried that if I got pregnant, I'd be all alone with him being deployed and such. We did everything else, as we felt it was vital to nurtrue our relationship in that aspect. We simply weren't going to spend our whole relationship battling it or getting married before his deployment, either. It worked for us though and many will disagree.
My husband and I also tried to take a sexual "break" for the 10 or so months leading up to our wedding. By most people's accounts it probably wasn't much of a break, because we were still staying over at one another's places frequently.
Doing this, I learned more about myself and our relationship. It gives you the space, quite literally, to be able to really assess where you are and where the relationship is going, how it is going. It also made us learn how to fight better, because we no longer had sexual things to use as the universal fix-it. On the whole, the experience was very, very valuable.
I can't tell you where you should draw your line or when your wedding is (so how long you're talking about drawing it for). But just as an exercise, try taking as big a sexual break as you can---try to really date your partner and get to know him deeply without bringing anything sexual into the picture. I think you will be able to figure out as you go along how long it will be necessary for you to do this, and what the benefits will be. It sounds like part of you realizes that the path you're on is not exactly the right path for you. Give another path a shot, and so how it goes.
Ohhhh can I speak to this post!! MrMike and I both converted by our own choice, before we knew each other, to non-denominational Christianity. We both wanted to wait to have sex. I wanted to do lots of other stuff because physical intimacy is very important to me. For myself, stopping at not having sex felt OK, BUT the few times we tried that we had trouble putting on the brakes. MrMike wanted to avoid temptation altogether... he knew where his line was that if he crossed, he could not stop. For him that was passionnately kissing. So for MONTHS and MONTHS I would get cuddles, and small kisses, but no more than that. I will be honest and say it was AWFUL, and many times I felt very unloved becaused I need physical intimacy to feel secure, it's just how i subconsciously experience love (5 Love Languages, awesome book). Anyway, we just got married this past Sunday, and I'm glad we did things the way we did. Because now we can be as intimate as we want, guilt-free, we feel good about ourselves for having waited, and most of all, MrMike has his self-respect intact because it was a BIG DEAL for him to draw the line where he did, and he really won himself over. And of course he feels very respected by me for being patient with that. It's a win win. The point is that between the two of you, you need to find out what point makes you really feel like you are honoring what God wants for you. And have faith that everything you are giving up now will be that much more blessed when the time is right. Good luck and God bless!
We were one of those non-kissing couples. And I almost cringe to say that, because I have seen SO much self-righteousness and smugness come from the couples who are non-kissers before marriage, saying that kissers are sinning when they kiss (really, flat out saying it -- to my face!!).
But it worked for us. My husband and I both have VERY high sex drives -- every other day is our minimum. Not kissing probably saved us from having sex (we didn't even START down a physical path, at least that way... I'll be the first to admit my imperfection in other areas), but I know with some people it works the other way -- they need to kiss to release some pressure so they won't have sex.
The no-kissing rule was first proposed by me, with the stipulation that we could kiss after we were engaged. I'd never been kissed when I started dating my husband, and I thought that since I had made it that far (18) I might as well make sure the only man I ever kissed would be my husband. My resolve to keep this up disappeared quickly, but he enforced it. He then decided, since he believes in short engagements that why shouldn't we just wait another 10 months after engagement till the wedding?
Sooo... I hesitate to give advice because I've been burned by the lack of a one-size-fits-all Christian sexual ethic before. I would say that you really should stop sleeping in the same bed, because 1. I know what a HUGE temptation that was for me and 2. People have dirty imaginations. Non-Christians will assume you're having sex because that's fairly standard to them, and most Christians will wonder because we are just as sex-saturated as the rest of America and won't see any innocence in that. So if you're concerned about the witness you're giving, I would cut that out.
I'm not sure what else you do, but I would definitely be sure to maintain normal PDA standards (because nobody wants to see that, you know?) and to limit things like making out or petting in private. Basically, as tough as it may seem, keep in the back of your mind that until you marry your fiance, there's always a possibility (however slight) that you could marry somebody else. What would you want to admit to that hypothetical new fiance that you did with your old one? That's the standard I tried to stick to. Hope this helps.
I think that you're going to get different advice from every single person you talk to, because, although Christian churches probably have official standpoints on how far is too far, people will always practice their faiths in a way that makes sense to them.
It sounds like you're feeling guilty. Guilt is not a good feeling, so I think you should probably discuss your thoughts with your fiance and see what he thinks about your qualms.
I love the advice of ejs48y's father, but I am less a Christian these days and more just a spiritual person who was brought up Christian. This very subject is one of the bones of contention for me. I took a religion course with a very liberal minded woman who was saying something similar to the father's advice. It was pretty great.
She started out by saying that although there is a set of rules for Christians to follow, those rules come with the reality that we are not the same as Jesus and we are not perfect, therefore some rules will be bent by us and that doesn't always mean that we've been evil. She also said that if you are an adult, you know when you have done something wrong. She also personally felt that it was very possible for intelligent adults to make a firm commitment before the formal ceremony takes place, the idea that when you commit to one another wholeheartedly you're already married.
All this is well and good, but not everyone is as flexible as this wonderful woman is about interpreting the bible in the 21st century and from a Christian standpoint you can get advice on sex from both ends of the spectrum: from ideas that it's not the end of the world, to the concept that any sexual activity outside of marriage is deeply shameful and wholly wrong. I think you can tell where I stand on the subject. Figuring out your own place on the spectrum will probably help you with these guilt feelings and deciding how far is too far.
Tough situation. Mr.Rain and I have what we call "the fence". Everything on this side is ok, and everything on the other side is not. Admittedly, as we have got further along in our relationship we have flirted with the fence, even moved it back once or twice. After we were engaged we agreed that it was more important than ever to be vigilant. We do sleep together (actually SLEEP, NOT have sex) a few nights a week and it is really special. We talk about things, we cuddle... but we also know we couldn't do this if people at church or family members had a way to find out. We are discreet, not because it is necessarily wrong but because some people might get the wrong idea.
If you are not feeling right about what you are doing, maybe it would be worth it to take a step back. We have a conciense for a reason, and if your's is feeling guilty maybe there is a reason. Talk to your FI. Maybe you can try some new boundaries for a week and see if you feel better about things. I know this isn't great advice, but these are the grey areas that need to be handled with a lot of prayer and discussion between you and FI. ((hugs))
MissRain
I'm with a few of you girls. FI and I haven't "crossed the line," but we do share a bed sometimes. I don't tell my family and I don't telly church people because I know that they think it's impossible to avoid the temptation if you're in the same bed. Pray about it! Ask for a peace and clarity about what you should do. I'm ok with where we are and what we do as a couple, and I'm really glad we saved sex for our marriage bed. Just a few more months to go!
My husband and I were active before our wedding. BUT we decided almost a year prior that we wanted to wait until our wedding to continue. We didn't do this because our preacher told us we had to or we felt that we were being frowned upon. We did this because we felt that it was right for us. Do what YOU feel is right, no one can tell you what the Spirit is telling you.
That's a difficult question and one that my FI and I have struggled with, too. I guess all I can do is share my own experience.
I was pretty conservative growing up and only dated one other guy besides my FI. For me, sex was always taboo until marriage. But growing up, I had no idea how fuzzy that line could get between what was okay and what was not okay (I always thought that you either had sex or you didn't, and that was all there was to it :-P). I thought there was kissing and there was sex and that was about it (no idea the progression between those two). I had heard about people waiting to kiss until their wedding day and I thought that was really neat, but it wasn't necessarily for me. When I started dating my first boyfriend, though, I thought about it and decided I wanted to save that for the man I was going to marry. I went through this whole progession of trying to decide when that would be okay: when I knew he was "the one"?....when we were engaged?....and finally, after seeing how things escalate physically, deciding I wanted to just wait until my wedding day. So my first boyfriend and I never even kissed.
When I started dating my FI, we sat down and discussed those boundaries. At that point I told him that I didn't want to kiss until my wedding day and that all I was okay with at that point was brief hugs, and he gladly agreed. As our relationship progressed, though, the physical side of it did, too (which I guess is natural), and at one point we kissed, even though we'd decided not to. That brought on all sorts of guilt and I struggled for quite a while on whether we should just go ahead and kiss then since no matter what we did, my wedding day wasn't going to be my first kiss (honestly, I grieved a lot over that and regretted crossing even that line). We eventually decided to stick to the no-kissing rule. But about a month after we were engaged we decided together that we were okay with kissing at that point.We decided that things that showed affection were okay for us, but things that aroused were not okay (and while that may be a fine line to walk, I think most of us know when we've crossed it).
What we discovered, though, was that, for us, kissing really opened the door for things to escalate physically, and once we'd compromised on that, we had trouble drawing the line anymore (I understand better now why Song of Songs says "Don't awaken or arouse love before it's time"). The more we compromised, the easier it was to compromise further (isn't that how sin works, though?). We have not had sex, but as my FI said once (we confessed all this to an older couple who's been mentoring us): "Our clothes have stayed on, but that's about the only redeeming thing."
For us, our engagment has been marked by a lot of struggle and guilt because of the physical side of things, not just because we do things that others say are wrong (like kissing), but even more so because we set boundaries for ourselves and then compromised them. And when I see my FI's guilt over this, I know that allowing or encouraging things to go past those boundaries is the most UNLOVING thing I could do for the man that I truly do love.
So at this point we've decided not to kiss anymore until our wedding day. Not because I think it's wrong or a sin, but because for us, it led us to places that were sin and bound us by a lot of guilt and we want to protect each other from that. We're not perfect and we still struggle -- and sometimes fall -- in our efforts to stay pure, and we have to fall back on the grace and forgiveness of God. But we're trying to trust that God forgives us and knows that our hearts are to honor him and each other with our actions and our bodies.
So I guess all that is to say, it's up to you and your FI (with the help of God) to decide what's okay and what's not okay for you, but I'm an advocate for saving as much as you can for marriage. And I say that as one who didn't save all that much and regrets it.
Some good advice I read once by Joshua Harris (the author of "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" which challenges the typical dating model in our culture) was to keep in mind that the longer your list of things that are okay before the wedding is, the shorter a list you'll have for whats special for just marriage.
I had a friend who did not kiss until the altar, and I believe that they struggle with intimacy even now. They waited a couple days until after they were married to even have sex! They were told so many times that pre-marital sex was a sin, so even when they were married they still felt really aweful about doing it! This is NOT ok!
Why would you want to fight mother nature? The more you resist and push back those feelings, the harder it will be to regain all of it when you want to have them. Like sleeping together... you should have so much passion between yourselves that you can barley make it though the night sleeping together with out having sex.
And sex for the first time, isn't as magical as one may think. I know a lot of Christain girls who waited, and were very let down the first night. Some of these girls werent even informed about sex and how to make it easier and whatnot.
I'm not saying that pre-marital sex is ok, because by Bible standards it is not. What I'm saying is don't marry the first guy you want to sleep (this is why I believe so many Christians get married SO young), and inform yourself about sex read a book or watch some porn or something, lol, jk.
Good Luck! -Hope this was somewhat informative and not just a semi-rant.
Thanks everyone!
@Miss Pizzelle – we are both ‘born again’ Christians, and have both had sex with ex-girlfriend/boyfriends, which changes things a bit I think. We know what it is to sleep with someone, what it will (more or less) be like etc, so don’t have any concerns re: the actual, eventual act :)
@million – it’s always interesting to hear another perspective :) I guess the difference is that it’s more like a ‘?’ rather than an absolute ‘oh my gosh, what I’m doing is so wrong’! I’m aware that ‘other people’ would say that it is wrong/too far, and have started to wonder why I am in a different place. For not being motivated for sexual pleasure, I mean that it comes from expressing love for the other, with no care for gaining pleasure for ourselves. I don’t know if anyone else considers that a distinction, but it was for us. I think you have a good point, because it was fine until I started to worry about everyone else :-/
@ejs4y8 (– I hate it when computers make stuff disappear!) I think that that’s been something that’s been a justification sometimes (subconsciously). But the distinction between legally married and ‘married in our hearts’ is important to me. We read a book that talked about post-marriage purity stress or something like that, interesting that you’ve actually experienced it! Does it go away or is it still a strong feeling?
@chelseamorning – I think that’s a good idea, I might suggest that. If nothing else it will give us a different perspective and we can reanalyse things if necessary.
@mrsmike – I can definitely relate! It’s a big deal for us too, we talked about how upset and disappointed we’d be if we actually slept together. We’ve read & loved the Love Languages book! Part of the ‘problem’ is that we’re both physically affectionate people and LOVE cuddling up, holding hands etc, and it’s so awesome to sleep over because we can snuggle up all night. So, I understand how you must’ve felt! Good on you for waiting :)
@December – that’s really cool :) One thing we have going for us is excellent brakes – we are not interested in having sex, neither of us would suggest it (would be quite shocking and definitely bring things to a standstill!), BUT I know that’s not what it looks like. To be really honest though I don’t know if I can. It’s stupid because that’s the thing I’m most clear on that I technically ‘shouldn’t’ be doing but now that we’ve started doing that I’m loathe to stop. That one definitely requires a lot of prayer! And I agree that “until you marry” you’re not married and could potentially marry someone else.
@missrain & @spwingal – it’s nice to hear from people doing essentially the same thing, makes me feel less odd if I’m not the only one! (Gee, seems like my main concern is other people!! Hmmm)
@nayvavy82 – you’re right, and that’s what I/we have to double check I think.
@MaybeeBecca – thanks, that really helped :) (I’m pretty sure I’ve read that book!).
Mr V's away til Friday so when I talk to him tonight I might bring it up so we can think about it before we're physically together again, and see :)
Thanks again, I really appreciate everyone's input.
I'll start by saying that I was raised Catholic, so keep that in mind. Several years ago, I read an article about the most intimate part of a relationship - sleeping together. Not sex, but actual sleep. It is a very intimate act - you are even more vulnerable than during sex. You have to trust the person implicitly and close to them in a way that you are not close to other people in your life. Intimacy and sex are not interchangeable. I think that you should look at the reason behind your religion's prohibitions - is it to avoid lust or avoid intimacy? If it is sex then you probably aren't doing anything wrong. Still, if you have questions and feel uncomfortable, then stop. If you are comfortable, then stand by your convictions.
Yes, the concept of it is still something that messes with me. I haven't been married very long and DH doesn't live with me. It's weird to go from sex being "oh, let's not do this" (b/c of our conscious decision NOT to do it and remind each other that i didn't want to be a pregnant bride with a husband stationed 4 states away) to "ok, let's go!" or some of the other acts that we partake in. Like, "hm, this shouldn't feel so kinky; I'm your wife" but it still feels kinda kinky! Like we shouldn't do this! Not that we're crazy, we're talking pretty normal stuff, but I still have this conception in my head that "good women aren't lustful and don't want sex" and you lay there flat as a board while the man does it ONLY to get you pregnant. My parents brainwashed me as a child, can you tell? Sex was ONLY for making babies, which is ludicrous, I know. But, I have to basically retrain my brain to think normal again. I KNOW it's healthy, I KNOW it's normal.
That all makes me sound really messed up, which I'm not, I promise! It's just sometimes these little things pop into my head when I'm with my husband and i have to go, "shoo fly, that's ridiculous!" and go "wait, i'm married". I didn't think *rules* applied to married people but subconsciously they do for awhile. Sex was off-limits for the 13 months leading up to our wedding...making it on-limits isn't just an easy switch. You fight something for so long that you get used to not having it. Sexual dysfunction IS a problem in really Christian environments (according to the pastor we met with...he actually encourages healthy sexual relationships and counseling and other interesting stuff to avoid what can be the demise of a relationship and the black sheep thing nobody talks about), it just isn't talked about very much. It goes way back to the days in the 1400's where the man just took sex when he wanted it to, but it was scandalous for the woman to ever want it.
I'm sure it'll go away. but it's hard to immediately get over something you were told to believe for like 18 years. We were sheltered as children, let's just say that, and I've worked hard since moving out of the house to see the bigger picture in the world, even beyond this one tiny issue. My parents' strange beliefs are starkly different than mine in many aspects. I know my parents just wanted to make sure i wasn't a promiscuous teenager, but I think the approach was wrong. Also, I know there is a big difference in being married in heart/vs on paper, but I will say that I don't feel ANY different. After dating for 4.5 years and then getting married, I don't feel different at all. Obviously "official" marriage is importnat or none of us would do it -=]
Heaven forbid a woman actually enjoy sex, eh? I'm not the best person to talk about this though. That stems from the fact that i have severe endometriosis and it's quite painful to partake in about 50% of the time if i'm having a flair up so we resort to other methods often, at least until i have another surgery to remove the tissue in the meantime. It certainly isn't a mental issue--i really have a lot of problems up in my V-space 
I'm sure that was a LOT more information than you wanted. PM me if you want to discuss some more. Just be prepared that it's an issue you COULD face as a married couple. The hive knows me very intimately already LOL. I'm quite open about everything in my life, probably a little too much, but oh well. I find it helpful when others spill the beans, too =]
Wow, there are a lot of really interesting viewpoints on here and I agree with some points others have already made. I think how far you go should be a decision your and your FI sit down and decide upon together. It's really important to be united in your decision to avoid crossing whatever line you two set. My husband and I both agree that if either one of us hadn't really believed in waiting we never would have been able to wait til our wedding night. When one of you is feeling tempted you need the other to help put the brakes on things.
Like you, my husband and I did a lot before we got married. To be completely honest we pretty much did everything except intercourse. But it was not a rash decision. I know a lot of people will argue that you need to refrain from anything sexual because it will cloud your feelings. Maybe you will stay with the person just for the sex. But for us, we were friends for nearly 4 years before we started dating so we felt we already knew each other well. We did kiss right away, but we didn't do anything else for at least 8 or 9 months so we both felt confident our hormones weren't clouding our judgement. We knew we truely loved each other.
I know what it's like to feel pressure from members of the church to behave a certain way in your relationship and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think you really need to decide for yourself. I can see where December is coming from with the whole sex drive thing. For us, we of course had a desire to have sex, but neither of us would say we have a really high sex drive. I've seen a lot of people from our church get married very quickly and it seems like a lot of that was because they couldn't take the waiting anymore. We felt MORE STRONGLY in our belief that marriage lasts FOREVER and is not a decision to be taken lightly than the line should be drawn before kissing or right after kissing or what have you. The only line that we knew 100% existed was no intercourse before marriage. We decided to do other things to take some of the pressure off so we wouldn't rush into marriage just for the sex. (We were only 18/19 when we started dating)
Also, after we got engaged we moved in together and got a lot of flack about it from one particular member of our church. First of all, we moved to a different city because I was starting a new school and he was starting a new job in the same city. With tuition alone costing $20,000/yr. for 4 years it didn't make financial sense for us to spend an additional $10,000 on rent to live seperately for the less than a year we had til our wedding. Second, would someone argue it's wrong to nap together on the couch? What is the difference? We knew WE could control our urges, but it seemed to be others thought it was a bad decision because THEY would not be able to control themselves if they were in our place. And third, we never flaunted the fact that we were moving in together. The only reason this man found out was because he flat out asked us and we didn't want to lie to him. He then proceeded to spread this around the church. What good does that do anyone?
We had been dating for 4 years when we got married and we're still at an age some might consider young (23). However, we feel confident that we married for all the right reasons and were prepared for the challenges that marriage brings. Even though we had done other things, we felt we saved the most important thing and it was wonderful to finally experience that new level of closeness on our wedding night!
I am not trying to convince you to draw your line where we drew ours, just trying to give your an idea of why/how we came to make our choices. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you and your FI need to sit down and come to a decision you both are comfortable with. Just as in wedding planning, when it comes to sexual matters everyone will have a different opinion.
((It makes me feel so happy to read this post, you don´t understand))
I think no church should have a stand on how far is too far, I mean, the bible is clear about fornication, and church should be, but it is also very important that you listen to your conscience and in your relationship to God, and to each other! I´ve been in that point when you feel in your spirit you really shouldn´t do something physical (like kissing), and if you don´t communicate it properly to your FI it can hurt the relationship.
As Christians God lives in us, and you should definitely do some of this things TOGETHER (best if all):
1. Pray and seek guidance and strenght from God,
2. Try to study the bible yourself or seek help from someone to find about what the Bible says about this issues, and what it may say to your specific experience,
3. Talk and be totally honest about what you both think would be better, neither one of you should feel rejected,
4. Definitely include in your conversation other things you want to do to feel close to each other. The love language is really important, and I know because I´m very physical too, but usually we can find an alternative language that we enjoy and our couple needs to understand (like service, gifts, words,...)... This one is very important to me because I find that´s why I miss something (like kissing) the most, because its kind of like missing him and his love.
Remember we are not tempted above our strenghts, and God will provide a way for you to be faithful to Him :)
((I hope this made sense))
This is a great thread...I am piggybacking along the lines with December and I think MsVelveteen..you are just about there in sorting out the puzzle to clear your conscience/bring you peace. Here's just a little more to add to how you last responded.
"BUT I know that’s not what it looks like. To be really honest though I don’t know if I can. It’s stupid because that’s the thing I’m most clear on that I technically ‘shouldn’t’ be doing but now that we’ve started doing that I’m loathe to stop. That one definitely requires a lot of prayer!"
Sometimes we are asked to do the very thing we don't want to as an intimate act of obedience and we have to trust the eternal reward is even better than the immediate gratification. It is something bigger than ourselves that we will struggle through and we don't think we could ever do on our own, because we are meant to see it can only be done with God's power. This is our faith being manifested in real life situations through prayer and relationship with God.
(Just a personal aside: I stopped having sex in my b/f relationships only by the power of God and i didn't think that was ever possible. I just couldn't see how it would work without the closeness to 'cement' us...but it does! Never slept with my FI and he won't even let me take a nap with him though I know it would be GREAT. But I have a high sex drive so it's best that way. It's not out of guilt or pressure but because it's wise and I knew this is what God was asking of me. We bought a house together 3 months ago and he still has not slept over although everyone probably assumes he does. If they only knew the truth. I'm excited about marriage and I know that day is coming soon with huge anticipation. )
Everyone has so many different opinions. I think that you're looking in the wrong place for your advice. Might I suggest a different approach.. by yourself, block off an hour or two and sit and pray and come before God with humility and have your bible handy. I think you'll find your answers then. If you examine your heart the way God does, a lot of things will change for you.
I am not by any means off the hook from this myself. It's hard and it hurts, but that's the good part because the hurt only lasts for a short while because you are bowing before the Healer.
I am just trying lately to listen to God's voice and reflect on his holiness, so I just thought i'd share. I also think our society has adapted such a horrible view on being tolerante of everything and everyone that its starting to creep into the church.
I would just challenge you to search your heart before God, (i'm saying this to you as well as myself) and lean on him for your wisdom.
I'll pray for you!
Br1tSh1n1ngStar -- probably the best advice given yet :-)
I must agree with Br1tSh1n1ngStar and MaybeeBecca..
I think the best place you can go is to the Bible and in prayer with God. The Bible isn't going to list out ever sexual act that is banned before marriage and list every okay thing. But sexual immorality, lust, etc...it does list. Sexual immorality is not just sex...it's things that go along with it. Lust can happen whether or not we're with the person or not.
My advice from experience with my boyfriend, of which I am not proud of as well...is set boundaries for yourself. Every person is different. Some people can't handle holding hands with out it leading to other things...others may be able to cuddle and be completly fine. It all depends on how much you are relying on God's strength and what you can and can't handle. It's important to talk over. It's not just sex that should be saved for marraige...but what goes along with it.
I am not perfect either :(. My boyfriend and I have given in on various occasions although we have not had sex yet. . .it's very difficult. But what's easiest is having people around! :) If you feel you might get into "that mood" alone with him...invite someone over...go somewhere public. It's super important to save that intimacy. :) Tell other strong Christians. Have them text you and hold you accountable. Have them ask you how you are doing. Be totally honest and vulnerable.
:) And read. Stay in the Bible and prayer and ask God to teach you how to give Him your whole heart. Look up verses and memorize them on the topic. :) Quite a few of us on here would be more than willing to be there to hold you accountable and to encourage if you don't know anyone to help with that! :) Hope that helps!
I agree with Iamalighthouse, we would be very willing to help hold you accountable. It is hard, but staying in God's word and tuning your heart to hear Him helps resist temptation.
Thank you to everyone for sharing their experiences! There's such a range (and of opinions too), I guess I should have expected that :P
I've come to the point where I can acknowledge to myself that most of the things we do are 'wrong' (in that they are senual and inflame lust), and that's not how I want our relationship to be. It is something that's really important to me (even with what we've done before), now I've got to see how on-board Mr V will be... he's said one or two things just recently that make think 'hmm?'. I have 97% confidence in his choice of no sex before marriage (motives, commitment etc), but it's definitely time for a check in. I guess if we're not on the same page then it's not really a loss to me and it's best to know now :) It will be a bit of a test I think, though.
So... watch this space! Bring on the prayer & bible ;)
Wow Ms. V, I applaud you for making sure that this is the right guy for you. I went through myself with my fiance and I questioned whether he was right for me b/c we just struggled so much! I came to realize that it's pretty normal but we MUST BE STRONG or it won't work. And one thing I also realized, is that CHRIST must be the center of our relationship, not lust.
It has been VERY difficult for me as well so if any of you are up to keep me accountable I'm up for it. I'm too embarassed to tell people I know but I DO want accountability. I don't know about you guys but when my fiance and I go to far (sexually but not intercourse), I feel VERY VERY distant from God and I hate that!
Although we both know the Lord is the center of our lives...it's hard to show it with our lustful actions! Thank God for His wonderful grace! But we do need Him to intervene that's for sure!
Joyousbride!
I'm so happy at your honest post!! That's really encouraging! And I DO get what you mean!!! When people have no clue how your actions are...it makes me, anyway, feel SO SO guilty...and I hate that with a passion!!! I know God is in control...it's just so hard sometimes.
Would you like to hold each other accountable?
Christian ladies,
I will shamefully admit that my FI and I have had intercourse.
I'm admitting this now because I want to be a warning to you ladies who are struggling. Although my FI and I, through the grace of God, still have a strong, loving relationship, we have experienced so much heartache stemming from sex---whether it's jealousy, loss of trust, feelings of guilt and blaming it on each other, there are endless ways God shows you why having sex before marriage is wrong.
I don't believe in regret, but I don't want anyone to go through what FI and I went through. So if you can ladies, remember there will be consequences you couldn't even IMAGINE (I sure didn't see them coming) resulting from your actions. Of course we shouldn't refrain from sin simply because we're afraid of the consequences, but I thought I would just add that consideration to the numerous, wonderful posts already up here.
I believe our God is a loving, forgiving God and He has given FI and I the opportunity to serve Him together for the rest of our lives, although we have failed Him in this respect.
I hope you ladies won't think too badly of me, and I look forward to checking back with you for accountability and encouragement, all possible through the love of Christ.
veebee -- Can I cyber-hug you?? Thank you so much for sharing. I admire your honesty and bravery, and while obviously I believe sex before marriage is wrong, I do NOT believe that anyone should be shunned or thought badly of because of it. All of us sin, but as long as we live in repentence (acknowledging what we did was wrong, trying to leave it behind us and do right) then you're right, we do NOT have to live with regret, either our own or that of people who are trying to shame us or put us down.
I think BETTER of you for being honest about the consequences you've seen to your actions. People need to hear that. Thank you. 
@veebee, oh hun - there is no condemnation! There IS mercy, forgiveness and grace though!
I'm really glad to see all the ladies weighing in here. I think that sex is a subject that not a lot of Christians talk about publicly and it shrouds the subject in this secrecy kind of thing where people are ashamed and afraid to talk about it. It's a very real struggle for couples at all stages. "How far" is a great subject to talk openly about and seek wisdom about!
This post is turning into something really cool, it is hard to talk about in public, and from every direction having sex is encouraged, so it's hard to stand your ground.
Thanks for sharing veebee. It's so nice that you're letting us learn from your decision.
Sometimes I just feel like, o man why is it so hard. And I also wonder if we want each other this bad now when we can't have each other, what will it be like when we get married? Think we won't wanna mess around as much cause now we'll be "allowed"?
Any thoughts?
br1t -- we definitely don't NOT have sex now that we're married, but it is kind of weird to have that forbidden feeling gone. At first I think I was equating the thrill of being naughty with being turned on, so for a while I was so worried that I wasn't attracted to my husband anymore! And we still have to work at feeling turned-on for me. Mentally I am ready pretty much any time, but it does take some work for me to get into it, and just yesterday I had a weird episode of feeling shy or like I needed to be modest around my husband! It is definitely a process.
I wish there was more of this type of discussion going on in Christian circles about sex, where we can stay true to our convictions while still loving and being forgiving when others make mistakes. I've got a guy friend who recently lied to us about not having sex with his girlfriend until their relationship was over, and while he talks about how glad he was that he had that relationship because he now feels "attractive" again (I don't use this word lightly, but she's a slut who made all the first moves and then used him emotionally after she decided she wanted to sleep with a different guy), he's just backslid so, so much over this one stupid girl. He refuses to really admit that he made a mistake sleeping with her, and tries to defend her no-good ways. NONE of our group of friends are trying to make him feel bad or shun him, but it's like he believes that we secretly are and gets defensive and confrontational about all sorts of (completely unrelated) things now. He's a different, worse person, and I wish he would just understand that we still love him, but he's being a jerk and pushing us away because he's afraid we're trying to push him away. UGH!
i really think it's up to you. there is not going to be any single correct perspective on this. trust yourself and don't feel guilty about what you do, since you're obviously thinking carefully about the issue and trying to move forward with a good heart. in my perspective, i don't think god is out there as the sex police. i think god kinda doesn't mind if we get to enjoy ourselves with the ones we love, regardless of whether it's before or after marriage. but that's just me, and i am positive that some will disagree.
@ lavenderpug, I totally disagree, except for one part. I do not think God is a sex police. Everything else I don't agree with. God loves us and has an awesome plan for us. He's given us his guidebook, and when we don't play by his rules, there is nothing he can do to protect us.
However, he's always there with open arms, and he wants us to come back to him when we do make a mistake.
It's like when your playing a sport. There are rules and guidelines and strategies. If you don't follow this you'll wind up getting really hurt, and the tools and things that are enjoyable will wind up being distorted and ruined all because you thought you knew what was best.
He loves us so much that he designed us to enjoy sex and sexual encounters with the opposite sex, but he gave us some guidelines or rules, so that we can enjoy it to the fullest and not get hurt by it. One of those guidelines is marriage. A commitment to another, and a commitment before God to remain commited. It's going to be one of the coolest experiences i'm totally convinced, I just can't wait!
@December- Thanks so much, I felt the same way. We are so excited for that night. It will be so weird to not have those boundaries anymore but i'm sure we'll get over that real quick
It's really really awesome to hear everyone's responses, and know we are all human, yet striving for the same goal!! I'm really quite thrilled to be so encouraged by all of you! :)
Emotions and hormones are big, but God is bigger...and no matter what the culture preaches, we still have His name to live up to and glorify! And that's no easy task in a variety of areas. :)
Tricky question,
It seems like the main goals are to prepare yourself in a way whether you can assess whether a partnership with this person can be forever.
You may have to assess a few people
So what lines can you cross and still be comfortable and not disrespect yourself, the current boyfriend/girlfriend or your future spouse (even if you really think this person is forever forever) but not rush a marriage just for the sake of hormones.
But reading the Bible and praying and talking with others are good ways to explore unknown territories, to help figure out the best path, since sometimes the answer isn't as clear as it's made out to be.
Tricky question,
It seems like the main goals are to prepare yourself in a way whether you can assess whether a partnership with this person can be forever.
You may have to assess a few people
So what lines can you cross and still be comfortable and not disrespect yourself, the current boyfriend/girlfriend or your future spouse (even if you really think this person is forever forever) but not rush a marriage just for the sake of hormones.
But reading the Bible and praying and talking with others are good ways to explore unknown territories, to help figure out the best path, since sometimes the answer isn't as clear as it's made out to be.
I am not religious, and I don't want to misrepresent myself as someone who is, but I really felt that I had to share something with all of you. I went to a Catholic girls school for many years that was the home of a retirement convent for elderly sisters. I love those women, they are some of the best people I have met in my life, and even six years after graduating high school I still visit the convent every time I'm back in my hometown.
Anyway, years ago I was struggling with myself, with growing up, and with trying to understand who I was going to be. I talked with one of the sisters, who has since passed on, and she gave me the best advice I have ever received in my entire life, advice that has helped me through so many of the tough times that we all face. She told me that the Bible, and all of the world's holy texts, and religions, and even art, and music, and relationships, are really just there to allow us to have the tools to examine who we are and how we feel, to help us discover our own internal moral code. She said that doing something simply because the Bible tells you to, or your parents say so, isn't worth a thing because it isn't coming from inside of you. She told me that God doesn't want your blind obedience, he wants your heart, but he only wants as much of it as you can genuinely give him; he doesn't want those little pieces we throw in just because we're afraid to be wrong, not out of true belief. He loves you even if you can't give him everything.
I know I didn't turn out religious, but it doesn't mean that her words of advice haven't helped me over the years. I feel so fortunate to have had such a wise woman teach me at such an early stage that our most important obligation is to know ourselves. Maybe reading the Bible, or going to church, or even reading a novel, or going to a movie will give you the tools you need to get to the bottom of the feelings you are having right now.
I wish you the very best of luck. I can very sincerely say that I wish everyone, whether they choose to have pre-marital sex or to wait, put as much thought and self-reflection into their decisions as you are doing. I would say it bodes well for your marriage if you are already so thoughtful about your relationship.
This thread is amazing! It has really helped me with just turning back to God and it has also encouraged me to hear how this is pretty normal and how many of you are fighting this battle along with me.
One thing that has helped me is to prepare my mind, sould, and strength in prayer, reading the Word and BELIEVING (and I mean really really BELIEVING) that I can CONQUER this...sin is dead and we must live on that way. Even if we fail several times...we just GET BACK up b/c of HIS grace and mercy. We CAN do this ladies and as hard as it seems sometimes...ALL things are possible with Christ. We just have to let him do His work and He is faithful to help us!!
I know that through all of the struggling that I've been through (and still struggle!), the Lord's Spirit has always been there and somehow (usually an ugly feeling in my stomach) communicated that what I was doing was wrong. I would feel that what I was doing was not pleasing him. No, we did not have intercourse but you can do many things that grieve God's spirit even if it's not sex!
Let's continue to encourage one another because like you all have said, this topic is not talked about much! Maybe because it's...well, shameful. But this type of thing is very much needed.
December, Spwingal, Br1t, and everyone:
Sniff sniff! Cyber-hugs all around! I really think having sisters in Christ is one of the greatest gifts God gives us--there is nothing like that feeling of acceptance, fellowship, and support!
Br1t, spot on with the analogy to a sports game. Truly we are the idiot players who keep getting yellow-flagged even when we're about to get tossed out of the game.
ya lets try to get touch downs instead of those stupid flags, were in the last quarter with just seconds on the clock, so we have to get a first down, so enough with the penalties, we can do this, The Lord Is MY STRENGTH!!!
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