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We currently live in a three bedroom condo with small (and I mean small enough for light gardening/strip of grass) yard that is good enough for our two pomeranians.I consider it perfect for the two of us and would even be okay with a small child.
That being said there are quite a number of families in our complex with multiple children and there is an enormous grassy area with fencing that they play in. I'm sure for some this isn't ideal but they are super affordable, low maintenance and meet their current needs so its a win/win in my eyes.
@Treejewel19: Do you live on the bottom floor of a high-rise? Or do you have a detatched/townhouse-style condo?
No one *wants* to deal with snow removal and yard work and renovations, but its the accepted trade off and so call pride in ownership... well at least the yard work part, we actually like seeing the direct results of our hard work. I dont think you *need* a house and yard for a family, there are trips downstairs to the yard, down the street to the park. It's fine to raise a family in a condo/apt.
For us, we definitely did not want a condo. We didnt not want to be at the mercy of the board determining our condo fees. We wanted the freedom to do what we wanted to our property without having to ask permission. And we didnt want to share walls with anyone.
I don't think there is anything wrong with living in a condo as a "home." This is a new era, and I think condos make a lot of sense! I would do it. And maybe I will :)
There's definitely nothing wrong with a condo. Keep in mind that there are different types of HOAs, though. Some you pay to enforce the yardwork and some you pay to DO the yardwork. It's obviously more expensive but don't write of townhomes just yet, I'd find out a bit more about HOAs in the area you're looking at.
I bought a combination of the above. It's a townhouse that belongs to a condo association. It's big enough that if it turned into a forever home it would be cozy and as a first home it's low maintenance because of the condo association. The people before us raised 4 kids in this house. We have our own patio and the common grounds are big, grassy, and manicured. And we don't have to maintain anything, the association hires grounds keepers. Best of both worlds really. And the townhomes we found have super thick walls so we NEVER hear our neighbors.
Maybe the decision would be easier if you didn't look at it as a starter home or a forever home but rather just your home. Just because it's a starter home doesn't mean you have to be out in 2-5 years. Get what you love, get what you can afford.
I think it would also help for you guys to determine what your non-negotiables are. My SO and I are picky as well and we came up with a list of things we wouldn't sacrifice - closets, patio, nice kitchen. Because be it a condo or house, you still might not find something that has everything on your list but it should at least have your non-negotiables and you should lovei it.
Everyone is different but it seems to me that a condo would suit you and your FI better.
My DH and I went for a house as a yard is important to us and we didn't want to be attached to anyone but that is personal preference. DH actually likes getting out and mowing the lawn, doing maintanance etc so its not a problem.
My sister and her husband however brought a condo and it suits them perfectly. They didn't want to be bothered with yard work and they only want 1 child and are more than happy to take their future child down to a park on nice days etc.
Everyone has different opinions on where they want to live and what is best for them. After reading your reasons I would go for a condo if I were you. :)
Thanks everyone for your input! : )
For those of you who have a condo/know people who do -- are you/they able to entertain at all? Or can they only have teeny tiny parties? The condos we're looking at are all pretty much over 1000sqft (they range between 900-1500ish, and all are open-concept kitchen/dining/living rooms, so about 1/3-1/2 of the floor plan is available for eating/socializing in). I'm not sure how big the rooms are in the townhomes that I peeked at; most of them don't have floor plans on the Internet!
@Jenniphyr: We have a single story detached condo...almost like a mini-house at 1,000 square feet. :)
I think for you guys a Condo sounds best. :) I know we all think of the white picket fence, single family home with a yard kind of deal. But that's not for everyone. And let's be honest, yard work sucks! We got a big lot for our dogs and don't regret it since they have so much room to play when we go out....but again, yardwork is icky. :p
As far as entertaining, I don't find that you'll have any issues size-wise. Maybe parking, but I'm sure there are solutions to that depending on the area. One of our couple friends live in a townhome and had a party of well over 20 and it didn't feel too terribly cramped. No more cramped than our house would have.
I had a townhouse for 8 years before my DH and I were married. It was perfect for me as I didn't have the time or inclination to deal with a yard (the HOA arranged for all yard work). We bought a house a few months after getting married because it was too small for us. One thing I would check on with a condo or townhome is the resale market for them. Here, it isn't as easy to sell a townhouse or condo as it is a house, so we had a hard time selling it. I don't think that is the case everywhere though. I would talk to a realtor about that.
My biggest issue with a condo would be neighbors-- it's hard to know before moving in if your upstairs neighbors are loud or stomp around, or the people next door blast the TV early in the morning, or whatever. If, like PP said, they have really good sound proofing, than it's no issue, but I personally rent in a condo building right now and my upstairs neighbors are SOOOO lound.
Other than that it sounds like a condo would be the right fit for you. As long as you buy big enough for your future plans, sounds ideal. The only downside I see is not being able to just let the (future) dog out in the yard and instead having to go down the elevator to walk him. Same with the baby, but I am pretty sure you have to go outside with them anyway :)
We wouldn't buy a condo because we do want a yard to let the dog out in or for the kids to play ball in, etc, but not until the right time comes.
We live in a condo apartment but it's not our forever home. I love our little condo, it's perfect just for the 2 of us but it's only 1 bedroom plus den so there really isn't much space. The other downside as a PP mentioned is neighbours. I am starting to hate mine. Apparently no one on our floor knows how to gently close our fire safe doors (they slam on their own). We've also had to make a few noise complaints to our concierge for our downstairs neighbour who thinks his place is a nightclub at 2am on a Tuesday.
There are amazing condos that are definitely big enough to entertain guests, some are even bigger than some townhouses, it just depends on layout. We entertain in our place as well, and it's only 670sqft!
Here is the best thing you can do, look at all 3. Even if you've already discounted a house because of the yard work just look to make sure you're 100% sure. Once you get in touch with a real estate agent they should be able to point you in the right direction of what would work for you. There are various types of condo townhouse and apartment associations so there may be one that works for you! Here in Ontario we have single detached home condominiums! Basically you are part of a condo association but the fees you are paying are just for road and lawn maintenance, otherwise the house is yours to take care of!
My only question is why your FH doesn't want to live in townhouse (you say he doesn't want to live in a duplex environment)? But the walls of condos are all shared, so if it's noise/privacy thing then you certainly have WAY less privacy in a condo.
@Jenniphyr: 900 sq/ft will be a tight squeeze and you might not want to raise a child in it. It's totally possible, but I'm only saying that because my apartment before we purchased our townhouse/condo was that big and it was TINY. After combining 2 households with one person that barely had any furniture we still didn't have a dining room table. Was it possible? Sure. But you'll be cutting down to the bare minimum.
Our place is 1532 sq/ft and it's more than enough room to entertain. Open concept. If you don't want to feel the urge to leave in a couple years I suggest going bigger, if you can afford it. The space is wonderful. And you don't feel like simply bringing in groceries suddenly made the house feel cramped. We can entertain here just as well as any house. The fact that we have an enclosed patio helps as well in the summers.
I owned my own four-bedroom, three-and-a-half bathroom, two-car garage townhouse for seven years before DH and I were married, and I loved it, though the vertical living (on three levels) was not my favorite. I definitely did not want a condo, because, in the market where I lived, townhouses were selling very well, but condos were extremely difficult to sell, primarily because there are so many of them, and builders are forever building new ones. (When people downsize from single-family homes to condos, they tend to want to build their own so that they can choose all of the specs.)
I see that you're not interested in townhouses because of the shared walls; however, condos not only have shared walls but, depending on the floor on which you live, shared floors and ceilings as well. So, I would not rule out a townhouse on that basis.
Some townhome communities are LIKE condos, in that they will provide all of the lawn maintenance and snow removal as part of your association fee. (Mine only covered snow removal. However, I had a townhome with a two-car driveway instead of a back yard -- loved it! -- and my wonderful neighbor cut the tiny little front lawn and strip of grass in the back that I did have.)
I think a condo can be done as a forever home. I know someone who bought a double condo, that is the previous owner had purchased 2 side by side and converted it into one big condo. They have no issues entertaining because they have a LOT of space. If you can find one, a lot of condo's have pools and parks for their tennants to use, which is more than most people get with a house.
Depending on your budget though, if you were to get a house, you can get a lawn care service to take care of all the yard work for you. In my area it's about 45 per week to have them mow the lawn, trim the trees, and clean up. After summer's over though, you only need it once per month or less. Maybe talk to a realtor and give them your concerns and see whta they have to say.
If your heart is set on a condo, then by all means get a condo! For some people it just makes more sense. I know you said you are against renting, but maybe try renting a house for a year and see if you like it. If not, go get your condo!
We own a condo now. It's 2BR 2Bath, a little over 1,000 sq feet. We can't really entertain a whole lot of people, and we are SO excited to move to a house. I would have a little trouble imagining raising a child there. However, we want at least two children, don't mind yard work and really want a big dog. And we have always been people who just need space. So not at all the same situation as you.
Pros: Always feel safe, don't have to do yard work, lower insurance rates
Cons (for us): No real space (meaning yard), have to abide by the sometimes silly HOA rules, noise of neighbors never really makes it feel like "ours" and is often distracting.
For the two of you, it really does seem like a condo is the best option at this point. My advice is just to be very clear on what the HOA does and does not allow and how much it matters to you - think long term too. Do they have a say in how you can decorate? Pet restrictions? Noise restrictions?
i have lived in all of the above throughout the years and i am happiest in a house. i lived in a couple of condo, apt style and townhouse style. both very nice but the rules are sometimes ridiculous. no flowers other than white, no satellite dishes, etc., etc. yes, i didn't have to mow the lawn or shovel snow but your condo fees pay for that. when i moved to a house, the money used for the condo fees, went towards a lawn guy and a new snowblower.
a condo is a great start but depending on the size and location, is this what you want to be raising a family in? i know children are small but they do come with a lot of 'stuff'. i guess it depends how much room you need. besides, once the kids, get older and want to play outside, it's nice to have the luxury of your own back yard.
Many people raise families in condos, think of NYers :). You can just as easily go to a nearby park for the outdoor recreations.And I think a properly laid out condo will have separation of public and private spaces which should make entertaining just fine. Many homes are one levels so essentially you get the same issues with sound as you do in a condo during entertaining.
But then on the other hand if you bought a house in the "city" most of them barely have a backyard or a front yard so that will eliminate your main lawn keeping issues. You can always hire a snow plow service, I'm sure lots do.
I do think your mom brings up a good point about your feelings changing after having a child. But then not everyone feels that way either. So it's up to you and your husband to decide if you would miss your own yard to play with the child in. Or would you be fine taking him/her to a nearby park.
For my husband and I we are NOT apartment/high rise people so we prefer a house with a big front and backyard. But that's us!
We're currently renting a condo and I absolutely love it. We have a large 2 bedroom and a 2 car garage. All of the yard work is handled for us.
I grew up in a condo (4 to 18 years of age) so it feels very homey to me. Home is what you make it!
We have one communal wall but I've never once heard our neighbors, so either they're really quiet or the walls are very thick.
I think you two should go with your gut on this one. Buying a house because it's what's normal won't make you happy if a condo makes the most sense for you! We're looking into buying soon, and I'd actually love to buy in the building we live in now. Our current (rental) unit is 900 sq ft, which is big to us, but I'd like a second bedroom just to have as a guest bedroom, etc. Around here there are plenty of large condos, I guess because it's a big city, and the single family homes are really only in the neighborhoods a little farther away from downtown (or they cost millions of dollars.) But I've seen condos for millions as well, that were bigger than most houses. Maybe look into courtyard buildings, or walk ups with communal yards? Some three flats have deals where you all just chip in for landscaping, too.
@Treejewel19: Oh, okay. I don't think there are too many of those in the city I live in. I've only seen one on the real estate website, and it's in kind of a rough neighbourhood. But it was so cute! : ) Definitely something to consider, then, if something becomes available.
@AmeliaBedelia: Oh good, so entertaining is a possibility! As for parking, pretty much all the condo associations in the city that I know of have visitor parking, and almost all of the condos we've looked at come with two parking stalls, one below ground & one above ground (for visitors), and some have three!
@namarie: I haven't checked with a realtor, but from talking with a friend of mine I'm pretty sure that it is harder to sell condos/townhouses than homes. But fingers crossed it would be our forever home, so we wouldn't have to sell it!
@foodnerd81: Hah hah, yeah, it might be nice to leave the house once and a while when we have a kid! : D My FMIL actually came up with a great idea for noise testing -- either have someone go into the other units & make a racket, or ask the residents of the other units to make some noise. Also, we'd probably ask what the walls are made of (properly "soundproofed" walls have an air pocket in the middle, not just solid concrete).
@Ms. Martian: The ones we've looked at are all at least 2 bdrm 2 bath, so hopefully no issues there! As for why FH doesn't want to look at traditional duplexes, it's because he doesn't want to deal with it if there's no HOA to ensure that they do all the proper upkeeping stuff. I think it's also just his own personal associations with duplexes (i.e. he thinks they're cheap -- told you he was peculiarly picky). And to be honest, he didn't want to look at townhomes at first, just at apartment-style condos & houses, but I put my foot down & told him he had to at least look at some and challenge his ideas.
@claireos: I think only a few of the units we looked at were under 1000sqft. And FH's parent's bungalow is around that (not including the basement), and it doesn't feel tight to me. But I'm not a "space" type person, I guess. : D I like "cozy". But thanks for your input!
@Brielle: Yeah, I don't know if I'd like the vertical living aspect. Especially not with a toddler -- you'd be forever stuck on one floor! It might also be harder to entertain with that type of layout...BUT you get a yard, I guess, so that's the trade-off.
@kimbee23: Thanks for your input! As for renting, we're definitely against it unless we have no other possible way of affording a decent mortgage (which we're pretty confident we'll be able to get). Both of us view it as throwing money away (and the price of renting is the equivalent of a downpayment or more in our area!).
@kate02121: Yeah, we're definitely going to be checking into what all the little nitpicky rules are. Thanks for the reminder, though! I knew about pets, but I didn't know that they restricted your decorating so much.
@mypinkshoes: That's a good point about the condo fees could just be put towards the same sort of services for a house. I guess that I just figured that condo fees are less than what it would cost for a house's utilities, plus yardwork & possible snow removal. But maybe I should do some calculations.
@regberadaisy: That's a good point! I guess I'm used to living in less of a "cramped" city, so I've always thought of condos as vacation homes and/or for bachelor(ette)s or DINKs. Since I don't know anyone who raised a family in one, I was having a hard time picturing it! The one thing about hiring a snow removal service would be that I don't know if I'd trust them to be there on time & do the job right...but I guess the same could be said re: the condo association's service! As for having a yard for our future child to play in...I think it would be nice, but not necessary. I'll prod FH more about that one, since the plan is for me to stay home for the first year & then he'll take over and work from home until DS/D is in full-day school. (Of course, the plan may need altering later, but that would be the ideal situation.)
@kala_way: Thanks! It's good to know that people do indeed grow up in condos & like it just fine! Were you ever able to have sleepovers? Did you miss them if you didn't? And did you personally miss having a yard?
@tee22: Good point about doing what would make us happy & comfortable, rather than just doing it because that's what's "done". And good point about the prices, too! What I've found is that it's really hard to find houses in good condition in a decent neighbourhood in our budget ($350K), whereas we've found a heckuva lot of condos, even for under $250K!
If I didn't live in NYC, I wouldn't consider anything other than a single family detached home because I like my space and privacy. But that's me, everyone has different wants and needs. For me, the extra maintenance work would be worth not sharing a wall and being able to have a private fenced in yard. But since I live where I live, I will be most likely raising a family in a small two bedroom apartment paying maintenance every month so I don't have to do any of the work.
@Jenniphyr: like pp said, it will depend on what you want and need; now and in the future. don't forget to add space for children and family functions.
definitely do the calculations. some nice condos and houses are around the same price but have their pros and cons. when i moved from a condo to a house, i didn't notice a big difference with the utilities. the taxes were a bit more and i just redirected the condo fees into house maintanence (my condo had big property taxes due to location and condo fees were a bit high too). i had 2x the living space and a huge yard. to me that was worth the extra $200/month.
think about resale too. i know you haven't even bought yet, but owning a home is an investment so you have to think about your return. what sells quicker, house or condo? what can i do to increase the value? how much do houses increase in value over condos, or do they?
good luck!
I have experience with this because FI and I currently have our condo (townhouse style with ground maintenance, pool tennis court, plowing, trash removal etc) which is on the market and we are also renovating our recently bought house.
Its funny that you wrote this because we used to feel exactly the way you do now. FI and I are 30 & 29. We bought our condo when we were 26/25. When we bought the condo we weren't looking for yard work, maintenance and all the household duties that comes with a house, so we got a condo. Now only 4-5 years later we are ready for all those responsibilities. I somehow don't mind not going to party at the lake every weekend and am actually looking forward to our multi-acre lawn. I want to garden, grow my own veggies, have a large yard for the dog and kids that we want in a few years. Fi wants to build a deck and has become quite the handyman, its been a real change for the both of us.
Also, our condo complex is pretty small and we love our neighbors. Its 20 units on 20 acres of land so we def have plenty of room. We are also the last end unit on a dead end street. That all being said, we are really looking forward to having outdoor space that is all our own.
For some people condos are a great choice, we thought it would be for us but we surprisingly evolved into wanting a house.
Edit: Also, the condo fees can be a killer. We pay $300/ month and every 6 months get a $600 assessment. Also, the codo fees can go up whenever the board votes an increase, which I hate.
When we were shopping around for houses we were set on a single family home but seeing what was available in our price range decided to go with a townhouse. However, I had some requirements that basically included 2 things. One we need an end unit because it will be easier to sell. Two it cannot be in an apartment building type setting because I felt weird spending that kind of money on what is essentially an apartment. We purchased the townhouse with the plan of only being in it for 5 years but we're currently at 6 years because the market isn't that great for real estate here.
We've decided to stay indefinitely and we're ok with it. We love our townhouse because it feels like a home. In fact if we could cut it off from the rest of the building and move it to a piece of land we would. Its a great size for the 2 of us and our cat.
The thing I would suggest is to make sure that the association has a property manager or management company. When its strictly owner operated by the condo assocication there's a lot of conflift and things tend to not go the way they should. Our board recently hired a property management company because our complex was so poorly run that we couldn't afford to fix basic things. The non-board member owners forced the board into hiring a company mostly because people think their project is more important so nothing ever got done.
So after all that my point is condo/townhouses are great starter homes and can lead to a forever home as long as you find the right one.
Good luck!!!
We currently live in a small 2 bedroom condo, and are looking for a house. We're not necessarily looking for our "Forever Home," but instead our 5-6 years home. :)
Condo Pros: It's cozy. It's about 1500 square feet with an open floor plan. No matter which room of the condo we're in, we are close to eachother. Coziness = Easy to keep clean 
Additionally, it's very nice not having to worry about yard work! We still have plenty of room to entertain without feeling too cramped. Our HOA fees cover pest and termite control, so it's nice not having to worry about that.
Condo-Cons: NO YARD. This is a major one for me. We have a dog, and I know she'd love to have a fenced in yard to run around in. No such luck. Definitely consider this if you're getting a dog! Also, sure we can entertain, but parking is a nightmare. When people come over, they have to carpool. Not so convenient. One other thing: perhaps this is just my rebellious nature coming out, but I *hate* that they dictate what I can & can't decorate with. No Christmas wreaths on front doors, lights, bushes, etc. Also, (and this is specific to my neighborhood)- I hate living in a place with no neighbors in similar life stages. They are all either elderly widows or college students.
We do enjoy our little love-nest, but it's just not going to be practical for us for much longer. However, your current situation and needs are way different from ours! Good luck!
I don't live in a condo, but we are landlords of a townhouse, and I work with many HOAs at my job. I do think a condo could be a great option for you, for many reasons, but just some thoughts on the maintenance stuff. The yard and snow work: most of our 'house' community HOA's contract out the front yards, irrigation, plowing, etc. Some houses don't have backyards or just have small ones that the owners need to maintain. A lot of these are just patios or decks without grass. Our townhouse is basically the same way as these houses. And as a PP said, if you like the look of greenery without wanting to maintain, you can get mowing/maintenance services for probably less than typical HOA dues too.
I will say that, personally, I'd rather deal with hiring out maintenance, than dealing with an overbearing HOA. We deal with that at our townhouse, and they're always calling about stupid little stuff that they really don't need to be involved in. Our fees are pretty high too considering how small the complex is, with not too many amenities. I'd just be real with yourself about how much the condo fees will factor into your budget, and plan for extra assessments and increases on a regular basis. And if you can, talk to people in the complex, and talk to someone on the board, to get a feel for how the HOA is run. And yes, investigate parking - having 1 or 2 visitor spaces per unit is really helpful if you want to have people over. We looked at complex that had FOUR visitor spaces - lol.
But the bottom line is, you gotta go where you'll be happy. If you won't be happy in a less nice house, or won't be happy if you're house poor because you got a nicer house that's more expensive, and you can see yourself being happy with the conditions and quality offered in a condo, then go for it! Just because it's not traditional doesn't mean it's not right for you. Good luck!
I live in one half of a duplex and never hear my neighbours!
We are purchasing a condo hoping to be in it for 10 years +. God willing we should have about 3 kids by then. We actually already own a townhouse in another state that we moved out of and we rent it out.
Not sure we will ever own a house, its WAY crazy expensive to have a house in the city!
i own my condo. it's not my forever home but it fit my budget and needs at the time i bought it.
three floors for the building--garden style, and im on the second level. my biggest suggestion is be on the top floor! my neighbors upstairs are elephants. i think they redid their home w/hardwood and there's not enough padding so i can hear every move they make.
what's included with my HOA fee: water, gas, pest control, trash, snow removal, pool, security, and parking.
as far as entertaining, some places have party rooms that are included in HOA fees. i have a small condo and i can entertain guests just fine. all people care about is free food :).
the nice thing about my condo neighborhood is there's a dog park and four playgrounds for kids.
good luck!
There are pluses and minuses to both. We currently live in an in between...a PUD. You may want to research and see if any are available in your area. A PUD is a planned unit development. We have a freestanding house, which gives us that privacy/pride of ownership like a single family home. However, the community takes care of maintaining common ground, snow and trash removal so we have just a very small yard to maintain. We are responsible for maintaining our own structure (like roof, deck, siding etc) but that also gives us flexibility. Remember that in a condo if they decide that they want to replace all of the roofs or gutters or something, even if it might not need it, you can be assessed several thousand dollars for it. When you're in your own home or a PUD, you decide when to make those repairs. PUDs also tend to have lower HOA fees than a condo as they are maintaining less.
Just an alternative to consider!
Speaking as a new home owned (with my FI) we avoided Condos. Condo fees are expensive and add up. Then there's the hassle of having to deal with the landlord when any issues came up.
We ended up finding a semi-detached in a great area for just a little more than a condo. It was definitely worth it.
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Tl;Dr version:
My fiance & I are leaning towards getting a condo instead of a house, for multiple reasons (read below for more). We're also planning on it being our "forever" home. Has anyone else done this? Do you wish you'd gone with a house? I just can't shake the feeling that you're supposed to have a HOUSE to start a family, even though a house probably wouldn't be the best fit for us personally.
Long version:
Until about a month ago (we're looking to buy between this coming fall & the very beginning of 2013, so we're pre-researching), FH and I thought we would be buying a house. Everyone buys houses. It's what you buy! However, his mom was talking with us & we realised that it might not be the best fit for us personally, and so we're considering getting a condo instead. Here's why:
So it sounds all well & good, right? Just get a condo. Well...I'm having a bit of trouble with it, not because I don't like condos (love them), but because it just seems...wrong? Everyone buys a house! How do you entertain or have family over for the holidays or have a family of your own in a condo? I know it's all very POSSIBLE, but gah! My head is swirling!
We have considered townhomes, but we're wavering. FH definitely does NOT want to live in a duplex-type environment, but if we were to live in a complex where there's a condo association which enforces yard maintenance/does snow removal/etc., it might be worth it. However, we'd still have to deal with a yard. And both of us like high-rises if we're going to live around other people much better.
Does anyone here live in a condo? Are you planning staying in one as your "forever" home? Do you/are you planning on starting a family (we want one child)? Do you manage to entertain? My mom says we'll definitely want a house with a yard once we have a child...have you guys experienced that? Help, please! I really want to be at peace with this decision, but I'm the indecisive type, so I'm agonizing!
ETA: Our "family" plans are one child, a small dog (preferably a Havanese), and possibly a cat.