(Closed) Contemplating leaving my church (sorry it is so long)

posted 6 years ago in Christian
Post # 3
891 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: August 2012

So, you’re ok with gay marraige, but you’re upset he is as well? Or just that he said so in church?


Post # 4
9627 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: September 2012

If I were you, I’d schedule a meeting with your pastor and discuss, with him, his reasons for his belief.  Hear it straight from him and not only second-hand from your friend.

The way I see sin is this:  If something causes harm to another human being, it is a sin.  Don’t do it.  If something is consensual between two people and is causing no harm to anyone, then it is not a sin.  The word sin actually means “missing the mark” as I’m sure you already know.  Adultery obviously causes harm to spouses and families.  Same sex marriage causes harm to no one.  You cannot equate one with the other.

What bothers me about your post the most is this:  You say you personally believe that same sex marriage is ok.  However, you want your pastor to preach, and your children to be taught, that same sex marriage is NOT ok.  Do you see just a tad of hypocrisy here? 

Edit:  The Bible is unbelievably complex.  I’ve read it through many, many times.  Studied for years.  You will NEVER, EVER get to the bottom of it.  You will NEVER have complete clarity regarding the Bible.  Nobody ever has or ever completely will.  The main message to get from the Bible is this:  God is Love

Post # 5
1458 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: January 2015

I think comparing the sort of “moral decline” of homosexuality with adultery or polygamy is incredibly offensive. If you don’t agree, then leave the church and find a new one. But like the PP, I don’t understand how you think same sex marriage is ok but then you’re worried a pastor is going to teach your kid homosexuality is okay. This is the kind of picking and choosing things that are “okay” and “not okay” in the bible that is ridiculous and hypocritical about religion to me.

In the bible Leviticus 19:28 says no tattoos, yet some devout christians don’t follow that rule either…

Post # 6
635 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: October 2012

If you aren’t comfortable or fully agreeing with the church you attend, you dont need to be there. You are just going through the motions. You are getting nothing out of it. Find a place you feel comfortable. I also think you probably need to figure out your true feelings about this. I know lots of ppl who have gay friends and support their decisions, but choose not to ever say it’s ok to be gay. Deep down they think it’s wrong but they support adults making adult decisions. And then there are ppl who don’t wana rock the boat but don’t wana hear anything other than their own opinions. (not helpful, but something to think about)

Post # 8
1458 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: January 2015


Post # 9
2999 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: May 2013

@FutureMrsSpencer:  I think I see where you are coming from. I used to attend a certain Presbyterian church with my family. The congregation openly said that they were ok with having a gay pastor. My family disagreed so we left. (Please don’t shoot me) I, personally, feel that lgbt should have equal legal rights. However, within a church which says it follows the Bible and teaches that homosexuality is a sin, you cannot have the same equal rights. As a member of the church, you are to hold those in the church to a standard and judge them. You cannot judge and hold nonchurch members to that standard. I suggest you find a new church.

Post # 10
9627 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: September 2012

@FutureMrsSpencer:  Where exactly does it say homosexuality is a SIN in the Bible?  Please quote me the verse.  Is it possible you are misinterpreting?  Is it possible that your pastor has been enlightened to realize the misinterpretation and is now preaching the truth?

If you are only focusing on what the Bible says is sin, you are missing the entire point of the Bible. 

P.S.  Do you eat bacon?  Or chicken?  I think there’s some stuff in there about how eating pork and fowl is a “sin” as well.  Are you going to pick and choose which things to obey and which things to not obey?

You may want to try looking at the bigger picture.

Post # 11
19 posts
  • Wedding: June 2011

How does your church feel about having kids out of wedlock? I mean, it seems a little hypocritical to say on the one hand that you are trying to teach your son strict Biblical values yet on the other hand question homosexuality. I am not trying to make you feel bad, but honestly, judge not, lest ye be judged!

Post # 12
1433 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: August 2012 - Historic Lougheed House

Does your Pastor also refrain from eating shellfish and cutting his hair etc?  

There are a LOT of things that are in the bible that are “sins”.  

I really wouldn’t leave the church over this, if you’re happy with everything else.  It seems minniscule, especially since you already said you’re OK with same sex marriage.  

Also, remember: hes human just like you!  He’s not God.  He makes mistakes, and he has faults.  I would hate to be held to the standard you’re holding him to.  

Post # 13
212 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2012

This is a hard situation to be in, especially if you have connected with the people within this church and made good friends.  A lot of times churches will have statements of what they believe.  I would start there and see if they have such a statement.  If these statements coincide with the bible then realize that because the pastor is human he is still going to have his own opinion and beliefs.  I feel that where people go wrong is that they beleive pastors are perfect and can only preach perfection….however, you need to use your own judgement when attending church and listening to what they are preaching.  If the rest of his teachings do not agree with the bible, then yes it is time to find a different church.  If it is this one stance that he takes a different opinion from the bible but everything else coincides then I would decide that for yourself.  You have your own opinion on gay marriage…and your child will learn more from you on that stance than your pastor.

Post # 14
9552 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: August 2013

If you’re going to stick with the “he shouldn’t go against what is said in the bible” statement I think you’re going to have a hard time finding a pastor. Here are some of the more commonly disregarded laws from the bible:

“For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death.” Exodus 35:2 – I have personally worked on Sundays several times. Should you or your pastor kill me?

“This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live: You must not eat any fat or blood” Leviticus 3:17 – do you expect your pastor to be vegan?

“If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death.” Deuteronomy 21: 18-21 – Should we really be stoning children to death?

“Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together. ” Deuteronomy 22:11 – because mixed fabrics are so morally abominable

“If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.” Deuteronomy 22:28 – because marrying your rapist is a great idea

There are a million more examples but my point is that if you’re not going to pick and choose what to follow in the bible then you end up with a REALLY limited life. I think there’s a guy who did it for a year and made a documentary. We all go against the bible. Ever single pastor out there probably disagrees with some parts of the bible. So why get so worked up about this one thing, especially when you actually agree with the pastor!

Post # 15
2607 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: May 2009

This has been making the rounds on Facebook and other social media sites/blogs. Thought it brought up some very valid points about the Bible’s teachings.  I am a believer, but I also believe we need to take the Bible’s teachings with a grain of salt  before we start calling things sins and abominations.  Anyway, the letter…

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. … End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev. 1: 9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is on her period of menstrual cleanliness – Lev. 15: 19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? – Lev.24: 10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20: 14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,Jim

Post # 16
788 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: August 2014

@Miss Apricot:  A good chunk of that is almost word for word from a specific episode of The West Wing and that scene was AMAZING. Definitely a favourite.

Here’s the full version of the dialogue:

Bartlet: I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an abomination.

Dr. Jenna Jacobs: I don’t say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.

President Josiah Bartlet: Yes it does. Leviticus.

Dr. Jenna Jacobs: 18:22.

President Josiah Bartlet: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I have you here. I’m interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police? Here’s one that’s really important because we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?

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