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I don't consider going to a strip club cheating, unless it's a strip club with a "back room" or something where "other services" are provided. As for lap dances, I'm sort of on the fence. I know most people wouldn't consider it cheating but I just am not comfortable with it.
I don't think porn is cheating. A guy has no interaction, physical or emotional, with the women in porn pictures/films. He can't cheat on you with an image. Sure, maybe he thinks the women are sexy, but it doesn't compete with his feelings for you. It's a picture; you're a person.
I don't approve of strip clubs, but I don't necessarily think that's cheating, either. The strippers/dancers are doing their job, and the guy is just a customer. And it's not something I'll ever have to worry about, since my FI has only been to a strip club once (a bachelor party) and told me that it was the most disgusting experience of his life.
Porn, no. Strip clubs- yes, if there is a lap dance involved. I guess everyone draws their line in a different place. In the other situation I felt very strongly that there was no cheating. I guess for me it's all about physical contact with another person.
I've already spelled out how I feel about this on other threads, but I'll do a Cliff's Notes version...
My way of thinking/moral code is that sex/lust starts with the eyes and the heart. Just like violence starts with anger -- thinking about being violent towards someone is as poisonous to your own heart as actually doing it, even if the person you are imagining never knows or is hurt by it. I think this because I am a Christian, Jesus said basically this same thing in Matthew 5. So when my husband looks at porn, or I read a trashy romance novel, and we seek out our sexual stimulation to come from somewhere else but from each other, I think we're cheating.
I'm not saying that every skimpy-dressed girl my husband sees and has a thought about is cheating or that I'll divorce him over it, because he can channel that sexual tension towards me. I realize that a lot of women make this same connection with porn or strip clubs, and I don't expect them to agree with me. I just believe in day-to-day life, regular movies and TV, and his own biology gives my husband PLENTY of sexual stimulation to channel towards me, and in a perfect world, I'd like to inspire most of his sexual stimulation myself. :) He doesn't need to supplement with porn or strippers.
I love hearing everyones take on it.... we are all so different... its quite interesting.
And might I specify again : I am NOT cheating on Mr.Flamingo... just curious to know what people thing. ;)
I completely agreewith ChaiAnkh99 regarding pornography not being cheating; however, I think it becomes cheating if he views pornography on his own without you to an extent that it negatively impacts your relationship. If he's developed a "relationship" with his pornography that comes between the two of you, it's "cheating," but a different definition of cheating than most would think.
Interestingly enough, I do consider any kind of physical interaction at a strip club to be cheating - lap dance, etc. Sure, he may be the "customer" and it may just be about the money for her - so there's nothing "emotional" about it, but when he married me he promised that I would be the only woman he would touch in an intimate manner. I don't see how money makes the stripper grinding on his lap different than a girl at the club who's doing it to get him to buy her a few drinks. He's being physically intimate with another woman, and it doesn't matter if that woman is getting paid and it doesn't matter that it means nothing to her - she's touching him in a way that only I should be touching him.
Just going into a strip club and watching isn't cheating (for me) per se, but even "just looking" can become cheating if his trips to the strip club are frequent enough to where he develops a "relationship" with the strip joint that negatively impacts his relationship with you. It's just like how I view pornography. So, I guess in that sense, DH could enter a strip club once, watch only, and he wouldn't be "cheating" but we've both agreed that we're not comfortable with strip joints for other reasons as well, so they're off limits in our relationship. We completely trust the other person but going to strip joints is a line we don't want to cross.
I'm going to add a disclaimer to the end of this by saying that these are the definitions that DH and I have agreed upon when it comes to cheating, strip clubs, and pornography. We've had the conversations and we're both completely comfortable with the limitations we've placed in our relationship, but I don't expect that every relationship works like ours or everyone should feel the same as we do. If you define cheating differently than me, the only thing that matters is that your DH agrees with you.
I think that pornography and strip clubs are separate, and I think that it depends.
If my husband is viewing pornography a) without my knowledge, b) instead of being with me, or c) with any sort of consistency that implies it's filling a need, then it's a problem. Is it cheating? I don't know. It could be if it goes on for a long time, or if it's against my wishes, or if it's hidden. I think that "cheating" encompasses anything you are keeping from your mate (other than birthday surprises and the like).
But I read cheesy romance novels, many of which get a little dirty, and sometimes I get wistful or kinky or playful. Is that cheating? No, because the connection is with my husband.
Strip clubs... I don't know. If he goes for a bachelor party, no, but that's assuming there is no physical contact. I've been to a strip club -- was I cheating? No. However, if there's consistency or routine involved, then it could be a problem....
And then we're back to the original question. If he gets a high or it fills a need or is in place of his relationship with me, then it can be cheating.
{I should note that my hubby hates hates hates strip clubs and considers them no different than brothels, so my perspective is skewed because I know he wouldn't want to go to a strip club.}
This is a great thread!
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I don't consider either watching porn or going to a strip club cheating, would it bug me if I found my FI going to a strip club or watching porn without my knowledge, yes, because I want us to be open & honest. But since I don't care about either he always tells me if hes going to the strip club (which is very rare anyway) and he doesn't like to watch porn alone.
My def of "cheating" would be involving yourself in a relationship with another person, whether it be a physical or mental relationship. And IMO when a guy watches porn or goes to a strip club there is no relationship developing there :)
I agree with Mrs. Cheese ... the driving force for me is, does it cause you/him to be secretive? Is the person who's doing it ashamed of it? If so, then its a problem.
I think strip clubs are ok if done very very occasionally (like, if his best friend gets married and has a party there, he should go) and in a joking manner. Porn... eh... I don't think I would mind if he watched it every now and then, but again with Cheese, if it was filling some underlying need I would be hurt.
So, I voted 50/50!
I put 50/50. If porn starts to replace me, it's cheating. If he looks at it in his own private time, when I can't be there, and it never affects our relationship negatively, then ok I guess. It's a little weird to know he does it, but it's just something that helps relieve stress probably I think. I personally would prefer he keep it hidden from me. I know he does it, but I don't know when or how often, and I don't want to know. If he said "hey honey, I just watched some porn" when I walk in the door or something, it's not cheating to me, but it's too creepy.
Strip clubs are a big no to me. If he simply went with some friends, I wouldn't be happy, but I'm fairly certain that I could forgive him. BUT if there is ANY touching involved, how is that any different than groping/hooking up with some random girl at a bar? That would SO be cheating! I really don't like strip clubs, even for the bachelor party, because I don't buy that whole "last night single" garbage. He made a commitment to me long ago about being together and being monogomous and that doesn't take a break just because he's about to get married! Luckily, he didn't go. Idk, I feel like I should be more open about strip clubs because esentially it's just live porn, but I'm not. It gives me t he jeebies. I guess there is just so much porn online, that it should be sufficient and he shouldn't need to see real girls in person when he has me.
I voted no but I think there is a fine line and each couple needs to define that line clearly. I used to work with a woman who went to stirp clubs with her husband and would buy him lap dances. Her reasoning: she was there, she saw what went on, and he went home with her. Would I be ok with that? No way. And besides, my guy is not into strip clubs.
I think Mrs. Cheese put it best about pornography: if it's secretive and takes the place of a healthy sexual relationship between the couple, then yes, that could be considered cheating.
Hmm, I agree with December on certain points. I think activities or actions that take a lot of energy away from the marriage could be considered cheating. I think once someone starts expending a lot of energy in one point of their life that the their spouse is not involved in, that can definitely be cheating because the marriage is going to suffer. Some things we can't really help, like spending time and energy at work, but I do think it's important to constantly re-evaluate what you are spending so much time and energy on and if investing that into your marriage wouldn't make you closer to your spouse.
So, by my reasoning, looking at porn and going to strip clubs could definitely be cheating because you're taking away the sexual energy you could be spending on your partner. We watch porn together occasionally, but I'd be upset if my husband watched it/looked at it without me. I'd honestly rather he invest the time and energy spent on porn into trying to seduce me with nice dinner and romance. :) Also, I don't watch porn without him because I'd rather spend that time and energy putting on lingerie, doing my hair and makeup, etc... for him. For strip clubs, we both agree it's just something we're not into. Neither of us have ever been and probably never will go.
I should add that this is an elvoving topic of dicussion in our house. My husband used to watch/look at a lot of porn but has really backed off in the last few years. He was actually the one that suggested we try to just direct all of sexual energy toward each other because he felt like we were not having enough sex. I told him that I just didn't have the time or energy for sex every day, so he came up with this plan instead. Reinvesting that sexual energy in each other has helped quite a bit. ;)
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I don't have any problem at all with my FI looking at porn. I know he does, and I think that most men do. However, he's certainly considerate enough to look at it when I'm not home, and it doesn't have any interference with our relationship. Does anyone else read Dan Savage's column? He's of the strong opinion that men are just visual creatures who like looking at sexual sights. I tend to agree. I feel that agreeing to never have an intimate relationship with anyone else again is a real sacrifice that you make for your relationship; I don't think it's unreasonable for him to at least want to look at other women sometimes.
I also don't mind my FI going to strip clubs, including getting lap dances. On the other hand, he almost never goes--only for a bachelor party, a very rare guys' night out, something like that. If he were going alone, or frequently, I would definitely find that upsetting. I think I'll probably have a problem with it when we get older, and I would think it would be strictly off-limits once we are parents. As for now, though, he's 25, I don't mind him blowing off some steam and having fun.
It's funny....I know I saw some girls saying it's no different than a random girl in the club grinding on his lap. I don't see it that way. I would be seriously offended and angry if he went out and was involved in something like that. To my mind, a lap dance is strictly a business transaction. I know the stripper has absolutely no interest in anything other than the $20 in his wallet, and I don't feel threatened by that.
I would absolutely consider it a betrayal if my husband looked at porn or went to a strip club. I have serious issues with women OR men being objectified in that manner. It doesn't matter if the women (or men) are happy with or being paid well to be objectified. I believe that no human being should be used merely as a means to an end, whether it's actual sex acts or just fodder for sexual fantasy.
I think I'm a lot like Mrs. (I almost typed Miss!) Cheese, so I chose "50/50". If my husband looked at porn or went to a strip club, I would not consider it cheating. I take that back, I would never call it cheating. BUT, if he were going/looking all the time, to the point where it was affecting our time together, our finances, or if it seemed like it was fulfilling a need somehow that he wasn't able to talk to me about, then that would be something on par with cheating.
Porn- I guess I'm pretty easy going here. I happen to like a little nudie pictures myself. I don't think porn is cheating, but like anything, too much can be bad. If we're mostly watching it together, picking it out together, that's okay. Maybe we'll both learn a thing or two! It can negatively impact relationships, in the same way gambling, binge drinking, etc. can. Basically, if one is hiding it, it's not good.
Strip Clubs- never had a problem with them and in fact, am dying to see what all the fuss is about. Based on this, we're going together while in Vegas, just becasue I want to see what is worth spending all that money. After that I'll have a better idea of it all.
I do think they both could become a bad habit in some hands, but, used wisely I don't personally mind.
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Such a great question. I really struggle with understanding my own feelings on this.
Porn - not cheating. Generally. I've never dealt with a guy who was really into porn. Also, just because it's not cheating doesn't mean I have no problem with it at all. I have a lot of confusing feelings about whether this type of material is normal and healthy or if it exploits women. But in general, not that big of a deal. In the end it's just a picture.
Strip clubs - here's where I"m really conflicted.
Most days that idea of strip clubs makes me sick - they exploit women and treat them like objects not worthy of respect as human beings. And my understanding of what goes on with strippers is sketchy at best. I've been to strip club and basically just observed some women dancing around and taking of their clothes. Not a big deal. But my understanding of lap dances is that they rub themselves all over the guy (I could be wrong here) and I've heard things about licking whiped cream off breasts and "feeding the kitty" (gag) and dildo shows (double gag). NOT OK. If a guy in a committed relationship were to pay some random chick in a bar to take off her clothes and rub her body all over him then masturbate in front of him it would NOT be ok. Why does the strip club venue make it any different?
Then on other days I think it's just harmless fun. I've been to a male stripper night with my girlfriends and it was really just silly fun. That said, all we did was watch some guys dance around and take off their clothes. It was more ridiculous than sexy.
And my final level of complexity is this: my guy isn't "into" any of this stuff, but he also doesn't have strong feelings against it. Even though I doubt it's what he'd want for his bachelor party he does go to these type of things for friend's bachelor parties. He just doesn't think it's a big deal at all. And I'm not sure about how I feel but I kind of just wish that he thought it was disgusting so that I didn't have to deal with it.
And it makes my brain hurt. That is all.
I don't think either of them are cheating, but that doesn't mean i'm a huge fan of either.
As for strippers....how can strip club exploit women if they are willingly choosing to do that? We used to go to strip clubs every so often and it was lots of fun, of course its a lot more fun when your a female going. And I'm not talking about seeing male strippers, because thats where i draw the line. its disgusting and i would pay them to keep their clothes on. lol.
If i had the body to do that shit, i so would have when i was single, it makes insanely great money, but to each their own.
I'm not a fan of either, but I'm not sure I'd call them cheating. I really dislike the notion of touching/lap dances. If FI did that, I would have a really big problem with it and it might really impact my desire to marry him (esp. if it was at his Bach Party). Is it cheating? Not sure. It's disrespectful to me for sure, but I do think that there's a distinction between that and taking a girl home from a bar or whatever. I can't really say why, but mostly from putting myself in a guy's perspective...I can see how they'd make a distinction. If it were a regular thing, though, that might stray toward cheating b/c it would indicate his looking for sexual fulfillment outside of our relationship. But if it were a one time lap dance, I'd be unhappy and maybe unable to see him the same way, but I don't think I'd call it cheating b/c so many other things might have lead up to that situation. Maybe it's just splitting hairs, but that's my take anyway.
on a side note, here is something that i find completely disrespectful and im pissed my husband was there for this, but he had no idea it was gonna be like this. it was one of his friends bachelor parties (oh yea, if his wife only knew...) so i guess it was at some nice country club, they rented a room out, and had a big ass party. apparently there was strippers (ok, no big deal), but i guess they had the groom doing shots ...out of test tubes....which just think of where the test tube could be on a girl.... (seriously, it was there!). I was just thinking, omg, if his wife found out about this. I would personally be livid. If you can't do it with/while your around your SO, its totally cheating. It just sounded like it was gross, and I warned my SO that if he ever did any shit like that, he'd have hell to pay. Luckily we're already married, and he never got his bachelor party, lol.
ewww!!!!!!!!!!! yeah, if my husband was taking shots from there...i'd question more than just his thoughts on cheating.
HouseofJ-I'm with you 100%. Unacceptable. Period.
I also feel that if you wouldn't do it/say it in front of/with your SO, then you shouldn't be doing it/saying it. I do have a problem with strip clubs and that whole scene-but then again, I'm coming from a position of being married before to someone who cheated and this is a very strong opinion that I have. My FI both feel this way-so it's a no brainer for us as a couple. He also comes from a marriage where cheating was an issue. We both feel that our bodies are reserved for each other-regardless of paid, not paid, business, not business. Reserving that for each other only keeps it sacred & special. I understand the point of view of "he comes home to me" but I just simply don't agree with it. Fontgoddess, you've brought up some good points and have hit closer to how I feel that I may be able to articulate here.
That being said-I also personally feel that when we enter into a relationship, the choice is made to "forsake all others" even before marriage vows are taken. I realize that this is a strong opinion and one that others may not agree with. Maybe it's being older, IDK, but it's just my opinion. Not to start a hullaballoo about what other people think or feel is the right thing-just my thoughts. FI feels the same way & would be very upset if I did something similar.
Just my opionion!
Editing my post here-the earlier comment I made that maybe because we are older-will be 39 when we exchange vows this coming October. Also the fact that we both are parents. However, I think the biggest factor is what some of you have already touched on-viewing and touching intimately is something that is for each other only-lapdances for dollar bills (or $5 bills or whatever it is these days) is no different than some random girl at a club. In addition-with our own home to take care of (the list of home repairs grows and grows!), twins to save $ for college, daily & monthly bills to pay, vacations to save for, etc.-strip clubs are very expensive and I'd be ticked if he wasted our money that way. FI comment about this was "I would rather take the twins and you out for a movie and dinner than go to a strip club".
'nuf said!
I don't consider either cheating. I consider both wrong, but not cheating.
I don't agree with either of them. It's disrespectful and it gets men thinking about other women which could open the door to cheating.
That's all I need to say cause I totally agree with December's post!!! It's so good to see a fellow Christain on here sharing her ideas!
Cheating? I don't know. I've always viewed cheating as the physical act of something. I had a male entertainer at my bachelorette party. He danced for us, for all of us. It was hilarious. There was nothing sexual about it at all. Shoot, my mom hired him, lol. I certainly don't view it as "cheating" and neither did my husband. He laughed at the thought of me opening the door to find the "cops" had come to raid our party. I certainly didn't do any shots off the guy!
I think it ultimately depends on the intention. You can go and be creepy and be all turned on by the strippers, or you can go and have a laugh and a good time and harass your buddies.
If it bugs your wife, don't do it. When you do it against her will and/or it becomes secretive, you've crossed the line. THAT is when it's a no-no to me. Personally, I could care less if he goes somewhere for a friend's bachelor shindig. A normal Friday night? Heck to the no. I know him better than to think he'd ever take a shot off another girl, though, and his friends aren't into that either. They'd do it to watch the groom squirm and be grossed out by the whole thing, in a harassing fun way.
We encourage each other in our own ways. He's not seeking stimulation from a strip club or whatever. If he was, well, that'd be one thing. The shots listed above are really inappropriate. He encourages me to read my books (historical fiction, but sometimes they have a graphic scene here and there....Henry the VIII was no stranger to the brothel). I think you can watch a girl dance and not be turned on by her. Just like i can watch a sex scene in a movie and not be turned on by it or be all "ooo now i want some" or watch some dude with a nice body on tv. I think it boils down to what your intentions are and how it affects the one you love.
porn - no
strip clubs - yes but not if they are just sitting there having a drink and not giving the hos money or getting lap danced.
Im with you Mrs Flamingo, those are not a big deal to me. Now I would be concerned if it were every day he was doing it but I dont consider it cheating at all.
I have no problem with stip clubs or porn. If he wants to go then fine. Enjoy. I know it's just a fantasy world and that in the end he comes home to me at night. What I do have a problem with if he 1) lies about it or 2) doesn't invite me. I might not want to go, but if he is willing to let me tag along then the mystique that every woman worries about just melts away since you see first hand what your man is like there.
Porn would not be as big of a deal to me as the strip club unless he were hiding. I guess I feel why are you hiding if you aren't doing anything wrong? Strip clubs on the other hand are off limits. I have been very clear about this with FI & his best man (he would love to take FI there for bachelor party. FI would prefer paintball & beer.). Maybe it is because a former BF would go a lot & at that point in my life I tried to be understanding and ignored my feelings and ended up burned (not that the strip club led to him cheating it was his own personal issues). I have just learned that it is okay for me to not be comfortable with some things and that fact that FI and I are able to discuss, understand each other, and agree is just one more reason why I love him. I too have heard horror stories about private stripper parties and the things they do. Some of the things they do I wonder if men find sexy or if they are just curious... who thinks of these things? Ice cubes? Sitting on a man and hitting him in the face with "toys"?
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First off, I am NOT cheating on Mr.Flamingo. Just thought I would point that out, before you all start thinking otherwise. Ok, so since the air is cleaned... I thought it would be interesting to continue the debate on whats considered cheating or not..
Thank you for taking the time to comment on my previous post:
http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/debate-is-chattingflirting-considered-cheating
Now, because we were discussing chatting/flirting situations, I thought I would throw this new one in the air. What do you do with your partner going to strip clubs or watching pornography. I know that we can't lie that men are prone to do those things more than woman... but is it something you agree or disagree with?
Do you consider it a form of cheating or not? I would love to hear what you have to say
To be honest, pornography or strip clubs is something that doesn't bother me personally...maybe I am way too open on these things. I completely trust Mr.Flamingo 120%. But this could be different for some. Mr.Flamingo rarely goes to strip clubs (on occasion: bachelor party), he actually doesnt feel that comfortable about it.
So to me, unless he would go on a regular basis... i dont think its cheating, especially since he tells me everything and doesnt hide when he does go to strip clubs.