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So as a former catholic (went to catholic school, grew up catholic etc) I totally get where you are. I love the "smells and the bells" of the Catholic church and the community, but there are many things I can't agree with and went on a search for a church that was more open and accepting. In addition, I have a huge belief is social justice that I think as a social worker you are already probably pretty involved in. I have been attending a Unitarian Universalist church and they are what is called a "Welcoming Community". So perhaps you could find a community that is similar. Unitarians are quite liberal so you might be taken aback at first, but there are a lot of former Catholics in the group so it may be something that you would find would work for you.
I don't think this is something you have to figure out right this moment. Get married, then perhaps try out other churches and see if you can find one that fits better with your morals. As for the burial issue - I don't know your age or health, but I would venture to guess that it will be quite a while before you have to deal with the death issue and who knows how you will feel at that point. Also, you never know the rules may change by then. I can't see staying in a faith I can't stand behind for my whole life just so I could be buried in their cemetary. I know plenty of Catholics who don't believe everything that they are "supposed" to, so perhaps you just need to talk to people who don't work in the rectory and are a little more liberal in their beliefs.
It sounds like the real issue here is that you are not sure Catholicism is the right religion for you, but because of familial/social situations, you think it would be better to go along with it rather than try to make a change to a religion/church that better suits your personal beliefs. It's hard to go against your family and friends and culture, especially when something so precious (i.e. being buried in the same cemetery as your mom) would probably be taken away from you should you change. On the other hand, how long can you really ignore your personal convictions? If you're unhappy with the Church, just going through the motions is probably going to make you more unhappy and distance you even more from Catholic teachings; it's not going to get easier for you, just harder.
I think you should start exploring whether you want to leave the Church NOW rather than later. It may disappoint your dad, it may be hurtful to think about not being buried next to your mom, but you shouldn't have to pretend you believe in something you don't. What happens if you have kids, and your family expects you to raise them in the Church? If they have the same questions/disagreements with the church you do, it's going to be near impossible to explain why you've stayed in a religion you don't believe in.
Fwiw, I grew up in a non-denominational Christian household; my parents weren't happy (and still aren't very supportive) of my conversion to Catholicism. But it was the right move for me, and I couldn't lie any more about believing in my parents' church when so much of it was against my personal faith. Also, I (like many other Catholics I know) also believe that homosexuality is not wrong, and that gay couples should equal rights to marry. Stricter Catholics wouldn't agree with me, but I don't think disagreeing with the Church automatically excludes you. And I know that Unitarians are very liberal and accepting, if you are looking for a place to start.
I really think you should talk with your priest but also, (and I'm not religious) talk with God. Forget the humans involved in the church that are afflicted with human emotion, judging and pride and spend some time trying to sort out your feelings with God. Do you really believe that it's your place to prohibit people to love and marry? If not, then see if you can find some support groups online that talk about having a dissenting view on teachings of the church. I agree with you that God would not want people judging others or meting out punishments (limiting people's rights) in his name. I think above all we're supposed to love each other and help each other WITHOUT conditions. There may be many other Catholics that feel exactly as you do that you could learn from. Good luck.
Just FWIW-I grew up in a Catholic family. Heck-I even have an ancestor that is now a saint. But in my adulthood I joined a pretty liberal United Church of Christ . I guess that some of them are less liberal than others-and maybe this one is more liberal than some, IDK. But I do know that a few years ago-people in this congregation actually studied the bible along with the pastor, and delved into that actual debate about what the bible says regarding homosexuality. Unfortunately I was working, and didn't have the ability to go to those bible study sessions, but what came out of that was that at least this particular church is inclusive. Certainly a part of me still "feels Catholic", and appreciates that I was raised Catholic, but I understand because I feel that all people are under God and that God is an inclusive loving God-not a punishing God. I don't agree with all that Catholicism teaches-so for me, I found a better fit with my beliefs. Just wondering though-I believe when I got married, I had to agree to raise my children Catholic? Good luck with whatever your decision.
Hello I'm sorry to hear this. I attend a christian church that believes that homosexuality is wrong, just the same as it thinks that lying is wrong, adualtry is wrong and stealing is wrong. A sin is a sin, is a sin and everyone of us is guilty with no sin worse than the next. The church strongly preaches the truths of the bible, straight out of the bible. Now someone who is gay is welcome just like someone who is divorsed it welcome. We are all there for the same reason to be forgiven and saved. With that said they will not ever say it is okay to be gay and they will never tell me it is okay that I live with my boyfriend, but I'm welcome just as much as the next person.
I love my church so much though. It is the only place that has tought me that I can have my own relationship with God. Like another poster wrote pray about it and listen. God will tell you what he thinks you should do.
For starters, please know that not all Catholics are anti-homosexuality. Check out http://www.dignityusa.org/ for instance.
For another, realize that the Catholic Church has a different opinion than many other Christian churches. To be homosexual is not sinful in the Church's eyes, just homosexual acts. (I'm NOT saying that I agree with that, its just the Church's position). I couldn't be part of a Church that said things like all homosexuals are going to hell or that said homosexuality was a choice. The Catholic Church doesn't say that.
I struggle with the Church's teachings too. I don't believe homosexual acts are sinful. I have a friend who is a Catholic and a lesbian, and I know it's a struggle for her. To me, staying in the Church isn't about agreeing with every issue, but about Christ and the sacraments. This is an area where I don't think the people in the Church are living up to it being the body of Christ, but that doesn't mean that I want to abandon that Church. I want to stay; I want to be there when it changes.
It is my Christianity that has lead me to desire equal protection and rights for all sexual orientations. God did not discriminate - why should we? It is frustrating when people are close minded, but remember that as a Catholic you aren't required to discriminate or hate gay people. You are required to do the opposite - to love and fight for all.
I think this is the civil rights issue of our generation and I truly believe that one day all people, LGBTQ or straight, will have equal protection under the law. It saddens me to think that when my children study this issue in their textbooks they'll ask why Christians fought against this.
God knows your heart. He doesn't agree with the Catholic Church's stance on homosexuality either, and he knows that you want to be buried near your mother, therefore you would be choosing this for the right reason. You know what is right and wrong in your heart and that is all that matters.
I could have written a lot of that post, if you switched 'Catholic' to 'Baptist.' I tried to switch churches and got so much grief from my family that I just stopped going. I grew apart from God, which was never my intention. This week, actually, will be the first week in years that FI and I are going to attend a church that will hopefully align more with our beliefs (well, mine anyway. FI is agnostic but is supporting me in my effort to find a more liberal church).
I would urge you to do a lot of praying and attend some different churches. You already know what you believe, don't lose that because you get fed up with the church.
I don't feel that you have to agree with everything a religion teaches to be that religion.
If you feel awkward working in the church I would give that up, but I wouldn't give the religion up.
Realistically, you aren't going to find a church that agrees with every one of your beliefs (speaking as a liberal Christian, I can attest to this.) The closest you can usually come is to find a church that agrees with your spiritual beliefs and about 80% of your social beiefs, and that does not persecute anyone in an active way. Then just compartmentalize best as you can, and be the voice of mercy and change that the church sorely needs right now in this area.
Leaving your faith is a big step, and not one to be taken lightly. I think you do need to talk to someone more qualified than the folks on WB about this if it's bothering you this much.
Thanks so much to all of you! You all made very valid points. I have yet to pray about it, honestly which is def going to be my first step. I do take this very seriously which is why in my eyes it is a crisis. Yes, something that I don't have to make a decision on immediately but still something that weighs heavy on me. I really had an Oprah "light bulb" moment today about it. Thus, wanting to get other Christians input. When I feel it's best I will talk to my pastor about my concerns which may just further my exiting the church....who knows. Needless to say, thanks ladies!
I wanted to talk to FI (who is also Catholic, a liberal Catholic) about it but he's a CPA and extremely stressed right now so I'm avoiding discussing this till after april 15th. Yes, I know how important it is to discuss religion prior to getting married.
@jo.lee: Good for you. I hope you find what you're seeking!
@jedeve- well said.
To the OP: I hear you and I understand your struggle. I am Catholic, was raised Catholic, my whole family is Catholic. I have two sisters, one who is gay. She is still Catholic as is the rest of my family. Being Catholic doesn't mean you have to hate homosexuals. Homosexuality is going to exist whether or not you denounce it. Same with premarital sex and abortion. It's interesting to me that they sit in judgment of others, when they have actively participated in the cover up of the biggest child sexual abuse scandal in the history of man, resulting in the bankruptcy of countless dioceses, and driving away parishoners. Unfortunately, there's a lot of hypocrisy surrounding the Catholic Church and their teachings- so for me, it's a balancing act. I continue to value my relationship between myself and God and worship as best I can. I will never, and could never, ever, turn my back on my sister- and I don't think God is asking me to.
I agree with prior posts that the key issue in Catholicism is not orientation but behavior.
One thing I might suggest, and I don't know if you are open to this or not - have you considered really going deeper into why the Church teaches what she does about homosexual acts? It's not really based on the Bible, at all. Rather, it's based on very deep theological investigations of sexual ethics.
I don't know how familiar you are with it? But in my personal experience I find that people who object to the Church's teaching are often coming at it from a very different perspective than the Church, or even IMHO Jesus himself would. In the 21st century western world we tend to argue about sexuality on the basis of the answer to the question, "what is sex?" Usually the answers revolve around pleasure.
But the appropriate question to answer when developing a system of sexual ethics is, "WHY is sex?" Why do we have sex? What is the purpose of it? Is it for pleasure, politics, economics? Is it an expression of love, a religious act, is it for procreation? All of these things? None of these things? The Church is interested in answering the "why" question, not the "what" question, and that is where a lot of ordinary janes and joes struggle, because that is not the the type of inquiry our culture teaches us to ask.
One of the great things about the Church is that we are allowed to properly form our conscience... if you sincerely believe that homosexuality is not sinful then it would be wrong for anyone to try to make you act otherwise, and you should not act otherwise. However the key to that is "properly forming" your conscience. You don't have to necessarily be where the Church wants you to be, but you do have to be open to the Holy Spirit and working hard to understand and appreciate what the Church is trying to say to humanity. Part of that is reading and educating yourself about the teachings, the centuries of in-depth (and very humane) philosophy behind them. I can PM you a list of of books you could look into to get started if you are interested :)
A friend of mine is a priest and this is how he explained the churches stance to me (I used to be catholic and went to catholic school, but left the church in high school). He said homosexuality is a sin(his opinion, not mine), but it is not your sin to bare. When it come to judgement day, can you sit at the foot of the lord and say that your were a good, kind, and faithful person? Is Christ in your heart? Those are the only answers that you have to bare.
I don't believe in everything that any church believes in, like most things in life. If you still believe in the sacraments, then you probably are still a Catholic. You can help to change the churches stances from the inside. The more members that work to change it the fast that it changes.
Many of the great saints had a faith crisis - some had many. I also once went to a 9-11 memorial at a reform synagogue and the rabbi talked about all of the passages that act as 'protest prayers' in the Bible. So many of the Psalms are cries to God - why? are you there? why have you left me/us/your people? I'm an Orthodox Christian not Catholic, but I don't think that Christianity is about knowing everything and agreeing with everything. I think it is about an honest faith journey where through faith, actions, and genunine searching we come to know about God and become more Christlike.
As others have said, don't make decisions yet. Don't leave during the period you are planning your wedding (which is a stressful period that is probably not helping the situation). Take time to pray, talk to people you respect, and try to find ways to resolve these issues before making any church changes.
On a sort of related note, when I was dealing with my dad's sudden death, I listened a lot to Sufan Steven's Casimir Pulaski...which in my opinion is really a modern protest prayer sung in faith. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EzeW5KoPUI&feature=related
Have you considered trying an Episcopalian church? They are much more GLBT-friendly and may be similar enough to your beliefs that it's a good fit.
I went through a very similar crisis of faith, with gay rights (not to argue with other posters, but I don't believe that it is liberal to say the act of homosexuality is a sin... I don't believe it's wrong period, which is where I came in conflict with most churches) and also certain things I consider fundamental to my personal beliefs, like the right of women to choose and not be judged, the equality of women, etc.
Do some "soul-searching" and reading, and maybe even visit some other churches. Perhaps talk to friends that have different religious beliefs, and see what they say. I wish you all the best and hope you find a situation that makes you happy.
That is a difficult position. You really have started off on the right foot by asking for opinions and views. Please continue this and do more and more research and get into the in-depth understanding of the teachings of the church. That will make your decision easier. I wish you the best of luck!!!
I could say that I am torn between two faiths. One of them is the Catholic faith which my FI practices and mine is not. We have promised the priest that we will raise our children Catholic but I do not agree with a lot of Catholic teachings and vice-versa for my FI about my faith. But we are going to do the best we can to teach them to be good human beings above all. Perhaps you should strive to do the same and not get too caught up in the details. Because the more you analyze something, the more problems you will find with it. There is no perfect religion, and neither does any even come close!
I want to offer you a friendly hand and ask you to stay in the Church. You live outside of D.C., I noted - if it's Virginia, I want to let you know that Arlington is a notoriously conservative diocese and that because of that, you might be getting a skewed version of a worldwide Catholic Church that can be more open. (Don't even get me started on pre-cana in this diocese...grumble, grumble).
I want to second the comment that The Catholic Church is not against homosexuality. Now, trust me, you are going to find some Catholics who are, but they are actually in opposition to the Catechism! I think it's something that isn't spoken about enough. As Catholics, we need to stand up to those who say, incorrectly, "Catholicism teaches that homosexuality is wrong." We need to call them out every time they say such a thing and remind that that if they're going to claim to be Catholics, they'd better brush up on the teachings.
If you love your faith, though, and it sounds like you do (except for this one thing), I urge you to stay and become a part of the Church with people our age who are resisting a manipulation of scripture and who want to stand up for the rights of all people. I think that it is a dramatic overreach for some Catholics to say that civil marriage between two people of the same sex is wrong, but again, those are just some and they are not interpreting their Catechism very well.
But over and over again I say that this is an opinion held by some Catholics. And lots of Catholics, most of them young, believe and vote for the rights of all people to be allowed to have civil marriages.
If you do believe in transubstantiation and all of the other sacraments, you will be losing something precious to you if you leave. I am so glad we live in a world where you have the choice to worship wherever you like, but I would be remiss if I didn't tell you that your church loves you and that if you do hold the rest of your faith dear, you will feel a hole in your heart turning your back on it.
Please feel free to PM me, if you'd like. In fact, if you want, we can go out for coffee (not trying to be creepy, just trying to reach out - totally understand if that's not of any interest to you). I grew up in a Quaker and Episcopalian home and am now Catholic - marrying a Protestant - and I have a lot of respect for other faiths; at the same time, I can also explain why the Church has certain positions on this or that, because once you understand it from the point of logical origin, it makes a lot more sense. I really wish you the best.
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Despite being Catholic, I'm choosing to write on this board vs. the Catholic one because knowing Catholics, they'll want to tear me apart.
I went to Catholic schools all my life. I've been going to a Catholic church all my life. I believe in a good portion of what they teach. However, I'm against the church's stance on homosexuality. My background is social work and I have a hard time believing that just because someone is gay they don't get the same rights as everyone else. It really has become an ethical dilemma. I really am not trying to start a political/religious argument here because everyone has their own opinions, which I respect. I also intern at a Catholic church rectory right now and am irritated by the passion behind the employees in the church to be against homosexual marriages and rights.
This being said, I'm getting married in the Catholic church but am now having kinda a crisis about my religion. I'm very close to the pastor who is marrying us and would be comfortable enough talking to him about this but feel that will open up a whole can of worms I don't want to deal with prior to getting married. Also, my family is all Catholic and I know my dad would have a heart attack if he knew my feelings. I want to get married in this faith, I have no doubts on that. I'm just doubting whether following this, what to do. I still view religion, faith, and church as important but I know I won't be seen a practicing Catholic if I don't agree with all of their teachings.
I'm curious what other faiths are okay with homosexual marriages and rights? I'm really unsure what to do and it's really tugging at my heart.
The other factor that bothers me and Im concerned with is that my mom passed away a few years ago and is buried at a Catholic cemetary. You have to be Catholic to be buried there and I wish to be buried in the same cemetary as she. If I were to change religions I'm guessing I then couldn't be buried there. So what do I do? I know it sounds crazy but I almost want to attend a church that isn't against homosexuality but then when I get near death, still receive the anointing of the sick and be buried in that cemetary. I know it won't work this way and I know the Catholic church would have a fit but I can't stand by this when I disagree with it so much.