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It may not be hurt, but fear. I have known religious people to get very upset over other family members beliefs (or lack thereof) not because they are offended, but often because they are scared that their loved one "will not go where I go when I die". They often also feel fear that their church society may look down on them or think they have done something wrong for raising someone who became an atheist. This is probably very confusing for your Grandma. She may feel a lot of mixed, upsetting emotions, but this IS NOT YOUR FAULT. I would keep things simple and every time your Grandma makes religious suggestions, just say that you love her and appreciate her concern, but that your beliefs are non-negotiable. You could also try assigning her tasks which have no way of becoming religious (like helping research flowers or helping make centrepieces) so that she feels important, without giving her an oppportunity to spout her beliefs.
More than anything I would be IRATE if my mother trivialised my education and said that I had been "brainwashed". I would have some very strong, direct words about that as it is totally not on, no matter what her justification may be.
My only concern would be that family could try and use your Grandmas generous gift as a means to bully you into having their dream religious ceremony.
I honestly probably would have lied. I'm not quite as strong as you are, and I would rather say, "I'm not religious, and my wedding ceremony will reflect that, but if my beliefs change someday I will probably have a vow renewal with religious elements." It leaves me open to someone thinking my beliefs are something I'll "grow out of" but honestly I'm so used to that condescension from both sides. My parents think I'll grow into being an actual practicing Catholic (instead of a Catholic who is in bad standing because she believes in it but doesn't get around to going to church or confession), the rest of my family thinks that as soon as I'm away from my parents' "ignorant" brainwashing I will fall in line and be a good atheist because I'm intelligent. I know that's a really weird situation and usually families pressure their kids to be Christian because "liberal colleges brainwash kids into being atheists," but my family is weird.
Long story short, if we don't have a Catholic wedding, we will bring Christian elements in and tick off both sides of the coin, but I will be diplomatic with older family members because they're more likely to worry that I will become a slave whose sole purpose is to pop out babies (and one elderly relative who thinks I will burn in hell if I don't get married in a church).
I don't think what you did was wrong (do people not deserve the truth just because they're old? They're not children), but I think your mom was trying to calm your grandmother down. Though it was condescending to you, it was probably a signal that you were really upsetting her. I understand where your sister is coming from, but I think you need to say to them, "I was asked a question and I respect my grandmother too much to lie to her. I feel like it's wrong to lie, even to protect someone's feelings. I'm sorry I upset her, but I was in a really bad position and was faced with telling an upsetting truth or lying. You were the ones who taught me not to lie."
I study evolutionary development. I am also atheist. My grandma is upset that I'm marrying a woman moreso than the fact that it isn't going to be religious... But, the thing I've learned is that I can't please everyone. We both know there isn't a heaven. Your gramma is concerned you won't get there - so let her be concerned. In the mean time, spend time with her. Show her that you and your FI are good people... Religious or not. You only have this life with her, so enjoy it!! This is your wedding. Don't give into the pressure.
(A quick note for my story: FI and I are not planning our wedding. Our families (mostly mine) are planning it. It's easier because FI is stationed in a separate state than our hometown which is where we're getting married and I'm stationed in another country. We just have been telling them what we want/like.)
Well, neither of our parents know that FI and I are atheist. Our parents attend the same church in our hometown. For a hot minute, they were under the impression that we'd have our ceremony at their church. I'm not sure where on earth they got that impression. So I quickly picked out a venue and let them all know where the ceremony would be held. For good measure, I also asked that they find a JoP or similar to perform our non-religious ceremony.
I felt like by that point, they should have just realized that we're not religious, at all, considering I did say it would be a non-religious ceremony. However, that wasn't quite the case and both of our moms had been mentioned random religious things to be included in the ceremony. I just ended up putting my foot down. I said we were having absolutely no religious aspects to our ceremony. It would be about us and our committment to each other, which does not involve any church or supreme being, because we are not religious. There will be no religious readings, songs, prayers etc. We would rather the day be about us and spending time with our families and friends. Since laying all that out for our parents, they have taken the 'hint' and not brought any religious things up again.
I didn't flat out say we're atheist, because I know they think atheists are 'devil worshippers' and all that nonsense. I did end up having to be quite blunt about it being non-religious, so they probably have some idea that we aren't believers. I just feel like there's no reason to "hurt their feelings" or start some huge crap between everyone. We all get along and they're nice people, we just differ in opinion on some big issues, so FI and I feel it's just best to not bring it up around them. Other family members won't find out until the ceremony is actually happening that we're not including anything religious in it. So, it was a little rough in the first few weeks, but now everything is going pretty smoothly. That's my story.
With that being said, I really hope your family just lets this 'blow over' so to speak. I don't feel like you should have to lie. I think you were right to be honest, as she did ask you. I also hope your father doesn't get upset with you, considering he told her to ask you when she asked him. I can't say I have much in the way of advice. Just reiterate how you believe the day should be about celebrating you as a couple and sharing your joy with your family.
Thank you all for the advice and for reading my rant :)
I totally you think you were right to tell the truth! Religion/spirituality is a personal matter and should have no effect on anyone else...I have never understood people who care so much about someone else's religious affiliation. If it makes that person happy, then you should be happy! Now I understand that the older generations generally have a tougher time with this, but I am honestly irritated that your family would make you feel bad about your beliefs, and the fact that you want to incoroporate them on YOUR wedding day!
The fact that your mom told your grandma that you were brainwashed from college was so hilariously ironic haha. I was mad but couldn't help but giggle at that part.
From what you said it sounds like you spoke about it politely, and contrary to what your sister said you weren't trying to "upset an old woman!" I don't think you should feel bad for simply following your beliefs. And your mother needs to stop undermining you and belittling your opinions...you were not brainwashed, and you will not "come around"...believe it or not people can actually research and come to their own genuine beliefs.
I got really angry for you when I wrote this post and went back and made it nicer haha I just get really upset when people undermine others and make them feel bad for no reason! It's cruel.
Wow...your sister sounds like she is completely off-base here. You were asked a direct question, and you answered honestly. Don't feel bad, Grandma will get over it.
I am sorry you're dealing with this. : / As a fellow athiest, I totally sympathize.
Your honesty is refreshing. Please keep us posted on how things progress. I know I'm going to have some uncomfortable talks in my future when we choose not to baptize or raise our future children in Christianity. We avoided it with the wedding by going to Vegas.
I don't see anything wrong with what you did. This is your wedding and you have every right to have it reflect your beliefs. You explained what you are doing in reasonable way. Your Grandma has a right to be upset about it I suppose, but that is not your fault. If she doesn't want to give you the money anymore that's her right too I suppose.
I'm a firm believer that sometimes people need to hear the truth, no matter how much it hurts. You were not trying to upset your grandmother, and I'm sure that over time your family will realise this and it will all blow over. Your sister is just having an emotional reaction to seeing someone she cares about be upset... she is not thiinking clearly. Once she has time to settle down, she will realise that her instincts were not entirely correct. You did the right thing being honest, especially if you tried to do it tactfully (often I feel that the delivery is more important than the message, in some cases).
On a different note: "I study evolutionary development. I am also atheist." Does anyone else who is religious find the supposed link between Christianity and Creationism rather bizarre? I only knew one Creationist until I was about 19... but lots of Christians. Now it seems like there are more and more people who are both... or is that just me?
I feel a lot of sympathy for you because it sounds like you really tried your best in a very difficult situation. Also, it sounds as if your sister should butt out. She is stirring the pot so to speak. I have relatives who do that as well. I was raised Catholic but have not gone to church regularly in a long time. My fiance is the same. We still identify with being Catholic despite this, and have chosen to have our wedding ceremony in a church. There are several reasons for this including that it is a sacrament, that we want to be married by a priest and also that it is important to our elderly parents. This is very different from your situation I understand but the similarity is in people trying to influence what we want to do.
The undertone from certain family members is some sort of weird 'oh, so you're getting married in church" vibe, especially from those who think of themselves as devout. I've got news for them- a) it is our choice and not theirs. Their only choice is whether or not to support our choice and b) If they are so devout, they should really work on treating people better in their daily life than they do on a quite regular basis today, as in the whole "People In Glass Houses" business. I'm doing things the way I think is best and since we are paying for everything no one can really sway me otherwise. If after speaking with your grandmother you feel that you should not accept her money then that will surely be your perogative as well. Best of luck.
When I ceased to be a member of a church I had the same problem. I told my brothers and my parents. They don't go to church regularly, but still believe in some way. I did not tell my grandmother because she is religious and would not have taken it well. Unfortunately, my mom told my grandmother... I could see that she was really upset. This happened a couple of years ago. She's over 90 and has gotten dementia, so now it really does not matter because she does not remember everything.
I try to be polite when I can, but sometimes people get angry even if you are polite. People assume so often that a pair would be married in a church. We will be married (once he proposes) in the registry office or in the court.
I don't
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So I guess I am just looking to vent and seek a little advice.
Since we got engaged, we knew this conversation (and the drama that comes with it) was coming. My fiance and I are both athesist. We are not shy about our beliefs (or lack there of), and we are also in no way confrontational. My mom and my sister know I'm an atheist, but I think most of my family just thinks I am just not "that religious". I don't intend, by any means, to hide that I'm an atheist, the topic has just never really come up with everyone in the family. However, my family does know that I study evolutionary psychology and fully accept evolution by natural selection, so it shouldn't really be a giant leap to infer that I don't accept creationism. My family is not strongly religious (except for my mom, and my parents are divorced so no cross over there) and they do not practice on a regular basis, but they do believe in god, and so we knew that having a completely non-religious ceremony would bring up some questions and could potentially be upsetting, but we did not expect things to get as emotional as they did today.
So this is how it played out...a couple of days ago my sister (who is more agnostic than anything else) called to tell me that my grandma was asking about why I had decided not to get married in a church. My sister said that our dad told her that we were not very religious and had opted for an out door ceremony officiated by a close family friend. Grandma apparently wanted clarification on what "not very religious" meant and my dad told her that that was probably a question she should ask me, that he wasn't sure of the extent of my beliefs (kudos to dad). I was happy my sister gave me a heads up because it is an important conversation and I wanted to have the right words in order not to offend anyone, especially my grandma.
So today, my grandma came with my sister and my mom to a menu tasting at our venue. My grandma surprising gave me a very generous gift to help with the wedding, and we were having a great day. Then grandma brought the "subject". She asked me if I would like to use a bible she has to carry our rings. I told her that I really appreciated the gesture, but that FI and I were not having a religious ceremony. She then asked if we were religious. I was completely honest and told her no, that niether us us were. I could tell if made her upset, so I explain that I was really sorry if this hurt her feelings, that that was the last thing I wanted to do, but that FI and I just are not religious.
I mean I really tried my best to soften the blow once I realized it upset her. I made a point NOT to use the term atheist, because I am so familiar with the conotation this term carries, I did not feel it was necessary to explain that I was not religious. Next grandma said that she just didn't understand how I was not religious because I had been baptized as a baby.
My internal reaction is "really"? But I again, explained that just b/c someone is baptized as a baby doesn't mean they are required to practice that faith or those beliefs as an adult. She asked if I was planning to baptize my children (which I have no intention of haveing soon), again I was honest and told her probably not. I explained that I plan to educate my children, but that is a decision I think they should be able to make for themselves.
The conversation went on like this for at least 15min. I felt terrible that she was so hurt, but I was also a bit surprised because like I said, my family is not extremely religious. To make things worse, my mom just kept intrupting to state that my education had brainwashed me (because that is what they do in college these days) and that not to worry I would come around eventually. I felt like this just made things more difficult, and I was hurt that my mom would say this. I have had extensive conversations with my mom about how I feel, and I just thought it was so inappropriate.
Anyways, I felt like things settled well, and that it would be something we could work past easily. Then a few hours after they all left to go home (they live a couple hrs away) my sister called to tell me how she thought I was completely disrespectful for telling my grandma that I am not religious. She said that all the way home grandma said how upset she was, and that at one point she cried. I feel terrible, but I explained that I think I was right to be honest. I mean she asked me directly, was I supposed to to lie? I don't think so! My sister just kept yelling at me saying I didn't need to lie, but I should have just changed the subject. It is just so frustrating, b/c until now my sis has been completely understanding. I told her I feel terrible, but it's not like she won't find out when I don't have a religious ceremony and I would rather discuss these things now and be honest them have them come up at the wedding.
My sister just kept saying how selfish I was being. Then she told me that my grandma had said in the car that she had given me the money to help with the wedding because she knew I was struggling to stay on the small budget I was working with, and she assumed that I had been praying every night for god to help find a way to have a dream wedding. This is what really hurt me the most. I am so grateful for her generious gift, but I am shock that this would be her reasoning. I genuinely ask my sister if she got the impression that grandma not regretted helping, b/c I would never want her to feel uncomfortable, and I would rather do it by myself than have her be so upset, or feel like she helped under false pretenses. This just escalated the tension between me and my sister. She kept saying that was ridiculous, and I was over reacting, and just kept repeating that I was wrong to upset her so much. Finally she told me that she was hanging up because I was just being unreasonable to think I was right to upset and old woman.
Ultimately, I feel like I was right to be honest and not hide my beliefs, or worse lie about them (she did ask me). I just know that this is just the beginging, because my dad is going to be upset that I upset grandma, and I feel like my sister and my mom are just making matters worse. I mean I am honestly hurt that they expect me just to say nothing and b/c it is upsetting. I am all about taking one for the team, but I don't think I should have to in this case. Do you think I'm wrong? Should I be handling this differently?
FI, isn't home tonight...so you all got to hear my vent :) I apologize for the crazy length.
If anyone has been in a similar situation I would really appreciate advise on where to go from here, or what your experience has been with telling your family that the religious aspect is not happening. I don't want to hurt my family, but I also want our day to be be about us, not pleasing everyone else.
Thanks for listening.