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I am so sick of my future in laws asking me if "their" side has to wear kippahs at our wedding and if we are having them. They ask me this atleast every week... needless to say I am Jewish and FI is not. I dont get it they are Catholic and wearing a Kippah is a sign of respect for G-d the same G-d we both have. So with that said before I went over there for dinner I posted this on my Facebook
The Talmud says that the purpose of wearing a kippah is to remind us of God, who is the Higher Authority "above us" (Kiddushin 31a). External actions create internal awareness; wearing a symbolic, tangible "something above us" reinforces that idea that God is always watching. The kippah is a means to draw out one's inner sense of respect for God.
Do you think they will know this is for them... and did I do something wrong?
Eh... I think it's passive-aggressive to use a Facebook post to hope that someone/some people recognize that the message is aimed at them. Take that post and say it or e-mail it directly to them. It expresses your beliefs very well, and I think the FILs would respond to it much better coming from you and your FH than to see it on FB. Hopefully they would understand your wishes and be willing to show that gesture of respect. If not, you'd have to decide if it's worth creating drama over.
I agree that its pretty rude to post that on Facebook, rather than to say it directly to them. I'd take that post down if I were you and talk to the in-laws directly
@Lalai: To me it doesnt matter if they wear them at all... I just feel the tone they use it makes them sound like they think they are too good to wear one. It just makes me actually really sad for them because them in the future when we have children and they will have many Jewish rights of passage that they wont respect their Grandchildren enough to come to the temple or where a kippah or other head covering.
Next time they ask you if they "have to" wear it, then ask if you "have to" genuflect when you come into a Catholic church.
(but, I suppose, unfortunately if they are not very practicing or devout Catholics themselves, then they might not quite get the analogy...)
but...definitely, don't be "passive aggressive" by putting something on facebook. It's not bad, it's just...immature. Just have a heart to heart conversation with them.
Its actually against our religion to go inside of church and when FIs grandfather passed away I sucked it up and went with him to his funeral... So to me I think they should learn about things before they decide that they don't want to do it. and I am sure everyone has been pretty frustrated and didn't know how to deal with something so you resort to what you think is the easiest way to get out what you want to say to the person...
@joy2011: I kind of feel that they dont actually take me seriously ever... so that why I feel like a convo with them would be pointless.
I understand that you want your FILs to show basic respect to your religion and that is completely acceptable.
However, it is not acceptable to be passive aggressive to your future family over Facebook. It's actually pretty childish, and I can promise you this: nothing good will come out of it. You can defend it however you want, but you asked if it was "bad", and the answers you are getting are that yes, it is. Being passive aggressive isn't a good way to express your faith to others, it's a pretty bold contradiction actually.
I think it would be better received if you spoke of sent the passage to them personally with a note of your own attached. "I'm not the best at descriptions, but I found this regarding kippahs and thought it might help you understand why" blah blah blah. If that doesn't work, you will just have to learn to let it go.
Or maybe they are trying to be respectful because they aren't Jewish and don't really understand what the Kippah means to your religion and you. As another poster suggested you should take that little clip that you posted on facebook and just send it right to them explaining first what it means in the context of Judaism and then what it means to you/your family.
And while wearing a Kippah is a sign of respect to God in Judaism, devot Catholics have different ways of showing their respect towards God. And you need to respect that as well. If they don't want to wear it maybe you can meet halfway on something, or just at least be blessed that they do in fact recognize God in their lives.
P.s I don't think you did something bad persay. I just think you are going about it the wrong way.
I agree that it was passive aggressive...much better to speak to them directly about how they've hurt your feelings. However, I can relate because it's an issue I'm sure will come up in my own wedding. It is disrespectful for them to say things like that so I can see why you'd be angry.
On a side note, I've never heard that it's against Judaism to go into a church??
@simcha: ugh weddingbee cut my post!
I was going to say..
@simcha: ok so for the 3rd time lol
I was going to say.. That I wasnt even sure if we were going to have them but it just makes me really angry that they would question me all the time! We arent having our wedding in Temple as respect for my FI & his family. We are doing things to represent both faiths. Its not like I am trying to force them into becoming Jewish because like I said I never even brought up providing kippahs at all. They always make ignorant comments about everything Jewish. They basically make fun of Passover every year, dont understand why we fast on Yom Kippor and say that I am being unhealthy on that day... They say the reason for me not eating pork products is because I am picky... I just dont get it! If you have a question ask dont make strange and rude comments....
@FutureMrsChaney:wow, I am so sorry to hear that! That is so obnoxious! I hope you don't let that dampen your opinion of all Catholics... :-/
@joy2011: of course not! my aunt married my uncle who is roman cath and I love him hes like my second dad! most if not all of my friends are Cath so I just attribute this whole mess to ignorance.
personally, i haven't heard anything specific that his family is doing wrong. they are asking you questions. this bothers you. you say they should learn about other religions (yours) but when they ask questions, you say they are being ignorant. they are probably asking all these different questions so that they don't worry about accidentally offending you or your family.
Edit: well there was nothing wrong up until that post about being picky about pork and unhealthy fasting. then it kinda ruined my point. kinda wish i had gotten it posted sooner now.... ah well...
@FutureMrsChaney: Gotcha. I don't blame you for being upset - that is annoying. I'd hate to have someone whine "Do I *have* to?" about something meaningful to me, and their ignorant jabs at your religious practices sound really rude. Hopefully, as you said, it's mostly out of ignorance. Maybe they'll get better as they learn more about you and how much your faith means to you. In the meantime, kill 'em with kindness and don't let them get to you. ;)
I was going to say that you were being passive aggressive and rude and that they were just trying to be respectful by finding out if they had to wear a kippah, but after reading your previous posts I can understand why you're frustrated with them. Leave the post up!!!
@FutureMrsChaney: don't mind my post from before. i obviously didn't have all the info at the time. with the first few posts from you, it seemed to me as if you were just getting annoyed with their curiosity and constant questions. but then you also posted that they make fun of you and your faith at the same time.
so when i saw the updated thread after posting my comment, that's when i went back and made the edit to say 'woops, my bad. you are right, they suck." basically.
and well.... you're right. they suck. and their closed minds sucks.
@FutureMrsChaney: honestly, it sounds like they are just ignorant about any religion that is not theirs (most people are). DH and I made a personal decision to study Judiasm (we are not Jewish. We are non-Jews (Bnai Noah)) and neither of our families understand this. They say stupid comments similar to the ones you have stated. It is frustrating and rude but I just try to educate them. They say these "rude" things because they dont understand. THey dont understand why we dont celebrate christmas, eat only kosher meat and they will never understand Shabbat. The wedding was especially hard because we had an orthodox rabbi officiate our wedding.
I think you should talk to your FI about their behavior. Its his family and maybe he could explain things to them... Good luck to you!
Do they keep asking you because you haven't answered them yet? Or have you told them yes or no and they're still asking. I guess I'm just confused as to why you think they are beng disrespectful. I'm sure they are genuinely interested in what it means to wear a kippah. If you tell them that yourself, maybe they will understand. If not, they are still going to be in the dark. You may think that y'all are worshipping the same God, but they may not think that. So your reasoning could be confusing or incorrect for them. I say just tell them in person whether you want them to wear a kippah or not. Be upfront about it so there is no gray area. Posting it on Facebook is not really helpful, especially in family matters IMO.
I agree with kperry3 on this point - "You may think that y'all are worshipping the same God, but they may not think that. So your reasoning could be confusing or incorrect for them."
Honestly, people do sometimes feel uncomfortable/resentful of being told how to worship your [mutual] god your way, not their way. Everyone who worships may worship differently.
Why not just have some at the entrance of the ceremony with a sign indicating that it's optional and maybe a short explanation of why people choose to wear them? This way, it's NOT obligatory, it's informative, and it won't leave a negative impression on people on the day of your wedding.
Seems like you have the bigger issues with them being Christian instead of them having issues with you being Jewish.
"I sucked it up and went with him to his funeral."
You poor dear. Your FI's granddad is dead, but this is the thing that you remember from this event! wow.
You say it dosn't matter to you if they wear it or not, but your poor on FB and your other posts seem like you really do want them to wear it and that is prob why they are asking you repeatedly. If you want them to wear it just say yes and stop beating around the bush.
OK - as a Jewish woman marrying an Episcopalian, I have to say that I think both you and your new family will have to learn to make some compromises.
Actually, if it makes them uncomfortable to wear a Kippah, they shouldn't have to. Explaining to them why Jews wear them is a great idea - and its true that sometimes when people learn more about a tradition, they are more comfortable engaging in it. But if they decide not to even after the explanation, you should accept it.
I think a good comparison is your discomfort going into a church - although you "sucked it up" as you put it. An an ex-Sunday school teacher in a synanogue, I have to say I know of no rule about Jews not entering a church. I have known many many Rabbi's who have given presentations and even guest sermons in churches. But I certainly do know a LOT of Jews who are just plain uncomfortable. I guess I think your saying you "sucked it up" kind of feels the same as their disrespecting your traditions. Just something to think about...
I guess when they start picking on you and questioning Jewish tradition, you should be very upfrint and say you love them all very much and want to feel like part of a new wonderful blended family, but their comments about Jewish traditions feel hurtful and you'd like them to stop. It might be hard to say, but its honest and will go along way to build a better relationship. Especially if you are planning on raising Jewish children!
OK - I HAD to look this up. It seems that it is against strict orthodox laws to enter a church for religious ceremony because of Judaism's belief in "one God only." The trinity is seen as worshipping more than one God.
So - since I am not orthodox - my Rabbi's had no issue with it.I am a "Reformed Jew" (the liberal wing)
If you are orthodox (or a very traditional conservative Jew, I suppose), you won't be allowed in a church.
I think that using facebook like this is really passive aggressive and having a real conversation about it would've been better (I know you said that they don't take you seriously, but I doubt a post on fb is going to make them take you seriously either). Ultimately, because religion is such a personal thing, asking them to do something outside of their comfort zone isn't exactly the best idea. Your wants are totally understandable, but just realize that to many people, doing things outside of their own religion makes them uncomfortable.
I do think that you need to talk to them and tell them how much it hurts your feelings that they make fun of some of your religious holidays and traditions. It's never right to do that, and I think even if they don't take you seriously, I would hope they'd respond to you sincerely and openly telling them that it's not funny to you.
The thing on facebook was a bad idea. But I think you already know that.
If his family is being obnoxious/ignorant/weird/difficult/whatever about the wedding, why not just let your FI handle it? It's his family, but all of a sudden dealing with them is your responsibility? That's not cool.
Thanks for all the responses ladies was busying doing photo shoots this weekend. I am glad to be apart of wedding bee and get to see other other peoples opinions whether they be right or wrong.
i think once you are totally clear to them on what you want and how you feel about it then they will stop asking. i've found when i dont give the exact answer of what i want and i seem to have some flexiblity with my answer people just keep asking me. if i put my foot down and say this is what i want or need then people seem to get the message. so maybe try that?
@sonomagal: This!
Also, honestly- they may feel that since you are marrying a non-Jew, that the religious observances are not super important to you and you are just using them to be somewhat adversarial. It does seem a little off putting that you are making a huge deal that you went into a church for them which is against your religion (which it isn't) considering it actually says in the Torah Jews should not marry non-Jews, but you are not following that rule.
lol, you've got the passive aggresive thing down pat!
If you were orthodox you wouldn't be marrying someone of another faith I'd imagine. I suggest that the next time they ask you if they have to wear kippahs you just say "No".
Responding to rudeness with passive aggression will just build a festering relationship of bitter rudeness. Straight up facts and the support of your FI are what I'd emphasize.
"Fasting is unhealthy". "Actually fasting occasionally is extremely healthy. Would you like me to send you a website about it?"
"She's a picky eater. She doesn't eat pork". "Actually eating pork is prohibited in the Jewish religion. You know there are some RC's who don't eat meat on Friday's because of their religion."
"Passover sucks. Chocolate eggs are so much yummier!" "Many Christians actually celebrate Passover along with Easter. It's a time to remember God's provision and protection."
@kala_way: <---this. Absolutely, all the way. Whenever they say something to you, call them on it this way.
I agree with the others that Facebook wasn't the best way to express your opinions to the FILs. I think a little note to them with an explanation that you found this article and thought it explained things well might help.
I'm Catholic, so maybe I can help you see the FILs point of view (though if they are being rude or making fun of your religious observances, I have no explanation for that. That just makes me sad).
A Catholic man might likely be uncomfortable with wearing a kippah and it's understandable that he'd ask lots of questions. Why? First, he might worry that it isn't appropriate for him as a non-Jewish person to wear one. He may be afraid it might be offensive to others if he wore one. Secondly, in the Catholic tradition, it is a sign of respect for a man to take his hat off. So a Catholic man feels he is being respectful to God by leaving his head bare. So he might feel a bit conflicted and/or confused by a request to wear a head covering. Finally, he might look at putting on a kippah as somehow "participating" in a religion he does not follow and might be more comfortable with just observing.
Could your FI talk to his family and get a better idea of what it is that is making them uncomfortable? Maybe then you can find an explanation that would make them comfortable with it...but maybe you will find out that they are just too uncomfortable, but at least you 'll know you've tried.
LOL I love this, "I am glad to be apart of wedding bee and get to see other other peoples opinions whether they be right or wrong.
Seriously tho, I think you need to work on communication skills. You may not know how you come across to others. It's hard to know from here what's really going on with your future in-laws.
I'm neither Catholic nor Jewish and when I visit either place of worship I may be uncomfortable with practices.I join in with those that feel right to me and sit quietly when others are doing things not comforable to me.
As a Jew you'd probably not genuflect when visiting a Catholic service. You may even refrain from kneeling, singing the hymns and of course, you'd not take communion. It could be your relatives see the kippah as something from your religion they're not comfortable doing. Respecting each others' beliefs isn't all that difficult.
@FutureMrsChaney: I have nothing to add that hasn't been said about the facebook thing but can see why your upset.
As a Catholic I'm confused why they think fasting is so stupid when it is certainly a part of the Catholic faith! Catholicism promotes certain fast days as signs of penance in the same way that Judaism does for Yom Kippur. It fast not be to the same extent but fasting in the Catholic church is encouraged as being good for the soul. Also- is it just me or didn't Jesus himself fast?! I'd mention (very politely) these things to them next time they slate you for observing your Yom Kippur fast!
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