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Okay, I think there are two issues here:
1. He isn't doing anything romantic for you, culminating in not even planning his own surprise engagement for you, while you need more romantic thoughts and actions...
2. Neither of you is communicating particularly well.
To address number one, you gotta start at number 2. And honestly, you're going to end up in tears because a proposal is EMOTIONAL! So i suggest going to couples counseling and making sure you get out what you want to get out--don't hold it in--and see if the counselor can help him open up enough to find the words to tell you why he loves you. I think you both deserve those things.
Good luck!
I think you should definitely bring it up, don't settle! It sounds like he kind of just gave in; no offense, but like you said there was not much effort on his part. I think you have every right to let him know it's not what you wanted, and like you said it was not because of the lack of ring, but thoughtlessness of it all.
LaborOfLove- I totally agree! You need to talk about it, because guys see things differently and can't read our minds.
Maybe just sitting down and talking about how much fun you have when he does (if he ever did..?) romantic things for you, because the positivity will encourage him more than just nagging at him (something I try to be really conscious of, and do more than I would like). If you need him to show you more attention, love, passion, etc. he needs to hear it!
I can totally understand why you are upset about the proposal, and I think that talking to him about it, maybe with a counselor, would really help him understand why and how he could maybe fix the problem.
good luck girly!
I agree you should tell him how you feel and he should listen.
Thank him for what he did and tell him what you need.
You really shuldn't settle and I'm sure he wouldn't want you you too.
I need more information about why this man is "a great catch" when he sat on the couch to watch soccer after proposing, lies about having no money (bc he obviously does, he just chooses not to spend it on you, which is his right, but still he should be honest about it), breaks promises about when he is going to propose, never takes you out for dinner, and can't even come up with a single reason as to why he loves you. It seems to me that you deserve more from your future husband :(
I have to say I'm right up there with blaming Hollywood and fairy tales for filling us all with very high expectations that mortal men can hardly hope to meet, but still...mortal men should be able to say "I love you because..." and have at least ONE reason...
I think my boyfriend is a great catch because he is smart, funny, good looking, successful, he is friends with anyone who meets him. He is an entertainer and I have not met a man I admire/love and respect more than him. Everyday he comes home from a stressful day at work and greets me with warmth and enthusiasm. It is the everyday things he does that makes him a great catch and he does make me feel loved - in his own way, I know that is not clear in my previous post.
My bloke is a blokey bloke. Sports, sports ,sports. Most of our activities together are sport: watching, playing etc. He is not a romantic and I agree we need to work on our communication skills there. I have tried to lead by example and have written four love letters over the years I have been with him as well as telling him everything and more that I have written above. I have tried directly asking him (I hate doing that because I can hear how needy and pathetic it sounds to ask.."what do you love about me?")I also wonder, if you know someone loves you should they have to justify why? He doesn't appear comfortable with that sort of thing. I have bought it up and could see he felt put on the spot so left it and thought I'd ask later. I bought it up later in a light hearted way, he joked back. I bought it up in a serious/direct manner and still no response.. now I'm sick of bringing it up with no more strategies and disappointed that the proposal would have been the easiest and best opportunity for him and nothing. Its my birthday in 2 weeks. Maybe I'll make him actually write in a card for the first time ever!!! I'll lock him in the bedroom and refuse to let him out until he has written an epic, heartfelt note.
I see how guys can feel too much pressure for "perfection" from their girls, but maybe they don't understand is that all we want is something that shows they put a little effort.
It sounds like you've communicated with him a lot on this one. I'd say that he's probably not going to change and you just need to ask yourself if that's something you can live with. We all have our flaws and part of the key to finding a mate is not finding someone who's perfect, but seeing their flaws and deciding if you can live with them or not.
Sucky though! I'm sorry and I think you're feelings are justified. If it makes you feel any better my parent have no engagement story at all and have been happily married for 30 years now. I think their story is that after 4 years my mom gave my dad an ultimadium and he said, ok let's buy a ring and that was that.
In answer to your question about having to justify loving you--no. I don't think you ever have to justify, but if my FI were asking me why I loved him, you better believe I'd come up with some chintzy little answer like "Because you love me back!" or something like that.
Mountain.bride made some good points, really. It's great if someone's warm towards you when they come home, but if they're not meeting your needs emotionally, it's time for a re-evaluation.
I understand about the not romantic bit.. some guys are just like that. My guy is not mushy mushy, doesnt woo me off my feet. Hes a blokey bloke. But he tries, but I have to say something first, before he tries.
My FH had no idea that he was supposed to ask my father for permission. He just thought well im marrying her so ill ask her. He only thought it was people did in movies lol.
Communication is the key, he may not even be aware that he should have tried?
I agree with what others have said. My proposal wasn't romantic AT ALL, but my FI is so sweet to me all the time, I couldn't be upset. A tad bit...wistful, perhaps, but that's it.
For the record, he gave me the ring in a parking lot, after we had bought printer ink, and before we went grocery shopping. On SuperBowl Sunday. But we already lived together, and we were already planning a wedding,
But the point is, if you ARE disappointed (and I see why you would be!) the biggest problem here is really communication. And if you're going to marry this guy, I would want you to be damn sure that he really loved you the way you deserved, and you weren't just making excuses or rationalizations like "well, I know he loves me, even though I don't get x, y, z from the relationship." There's compromises, and then there's concessions, and too much of one is infinitely more toxic than the other.
And lastly, I 100% agree that he should be able to come up with at least one reason why he loves you. FI and I have this dorky little thing where he says "I love your face!" So I say "the whole face, and nothing but the face?" And he says "No, all the other parts, and the face too."
Yeah, we're complete dorks, but I never feel unappreciated. Or unloved. Ever.
I'm not big on romance but I'd be pissed that he lied. It's not that you came up with all the unrealistic expectations on your own, he led you to believe he had something special planned. I'd ask him, so honey, did your original plans not work out? I know you said you wanted it to be perfect so I thought you were going to buy the ring and... what happened?
I don't think a succesful relationship needs romance but it does need love and for both parties to feel loved.
One thing that my mom has always told me is that you absolutely cannot change anyone... meaning I can't change my fiance nor can he change me. Therefore, when I decided this was the man I wanted to marry, I knew that his imperfections and annoyances were something I could live with. I believe these things will only get worse over time if one kids themself into believing a man/woman will change to appease the other. So I made sure that what drives me nuts about him is something I can tolerate for the rest of my life.
With frequent communication, we may be able to compromise and talk through what drives us bonkers about each other. However, communication alone doesn't necessairly mean he's going to change.
Having said all that, it sounds as if your man's lack of romance is a real sour note for you. Unfortunately, if he hasn't changed after 5 years, this might be one of those things that you'll have to accept about him for the rest of your life. You should let him know how the proposal made you feel and how you deserve a ring if he's out purchasing toys for himself. However, you can't 'make him' do anything and at the end of the day, why would you want to make him do these things? You deserve more!! Anywho, alert him to your latest feelings and and then let it go for a while. Speaking from experience (as I had a ex-boyfriend who treated me the same way), prepare yourself for the event that nothing will happen as how you've described, history usually repeats itself. So maybe you need to take a step back and determine if this is REALLY the right man for you? Good looks, intelligence, the ability to make fast friends, etc... will only take someone so far. There's SOOOO much more that it takes to make a relationship work for life (through the good and the bad).
I wish you lots of luck and hope things work!
This site is recommended on here a lot, but I'd advise visiting http://www.5lovelanguages.com/learn-the-languages/the-five-love-languages/ and taking the assessment together to see what "love languages" you each have. It can be very helpful to show each other what you need to do, to make sure the other person feels appreciated and loved. Maybe he's showing his love in "Quality Time" and "Acts of Service," whereas you really want to receive "Words of Affirmation" and "Physical Touch."
I haven't read the book, but my husband and I visited the website after I read about it on here, and it was interesting to look over the results.
But yeah, it sounds like he needs to put in some more effort, and illustrate to you that he really does care. Not all relationships are full of romantic big gestures and fireworks, but he should've been able to pull it together at least to ask you to be his bride. It sounds like he's coasting along because it's comfortable (and he's getting away with it), but you need to make sure your needs are being met as well as his. Good luck!
So I'd like to be very honest and I hope you don't take this the wrong way.
The proposal: While most men have a hard time with proposals, they manage to come up with how they're going to propose on their own. Your situation sounds to me like he realized that you wanted him to propose and at this dinner he figured he'd make use of this nice romantic situation that he didn't have to put any effort into. No ring? That means he didn't even plan to ask you that night, it was just an afterthought.
The rest: Your man sounds like he is just hanging around in a comfortable situation with someone who allows him to just be there without any effort. He's sort of along for the ride. He can't tell you why he loves you? He can't make any sorts of nice gestures toward you? He lies to you about money? Does he pay any attention to you at all except when he gets home from work? A really important question: how much of your relationship and situation is something you've put together? What I mean is, has he invested any of his time or emotion in the relationship or are you the glue holding things together?
Step back and consider why you'd like to marry this man, I mean *really* consider it. Picture where you'll be mentally and emotionally in 10...20...30 years if you remain in the relationship, knowing he's not going to change (locking him in a room isn't going to make him write you anything romantic). If you're ok with the idea of your relationship continuing as is for the rest of your life, then you should most certainly marry him. Otherwise, I think you should reconsider.
Life is a long time to spend with someone who continually disappoints you.
I want to piggy-back jhphi's advice. Find the book 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman. It will take about 2 days to read (easy read). But it will really change your mind about love and how people express love. Basically, there are 5 love languages, 5 ways to give and receive love. It might help you understand your FI a little bit more. Good luck.
It sounds like you think that's he is so great (Smart, funny, good looking, etc) that it's ok for him to not even make an effort with you. You say he treats you well, but in the same post you say that most of your activities together are sports (his interest) and that he never makes an effort to be romantic. How is it even remotely fair that you two do what he wants, not what you want? If you watch sports with him, why shouldn't he do something that you like with you? Do you feel like, because you're "lucky to have him", you need to put up with this? Because he should feel lucky to have you too, and his actions should show that.
No, not every guy is Prince Charming and not every proposal is a Hollywood fairytale. But you are selling yourself short here, and you deserve to be treated better. I hope you go beyond just telling him that you'd like him to be more romantic and then doing nothing when he ignores your requests. I would call him out on his blatant lies and make it clear that they are unacceptable. At the very least, I would not marry this guy without a real proposal with a ring...or at least some effort on his part.
Yeah, I agree. Alot of woman have men who dont give them all their emotional needs so they come up with everything they could possibly think of to justify why they love them. A proposal is just one of MANY emotional times in a marriage. If you are so dissapointed in your proposal obviously there I something wrong. If you notice, you said you we're dissapointed that he didnt do anything himself. You didnt say that you expected a fairy tale or to be surprised completely out of the blue. All you wanted was a little effort on his part and you got none. A marriage is one HUGE effort. You need effort every second of the day for the rest of your lives. If he didnt give effort in the very start of what would be the rest of your lives, theres not much luck for the years to come.
Its so sad to say but it doesnt sound like hes as into you as you are him. Im sorry to break it to you, and if you feel really angry about me saying this then maybe your mad about all of us being a little right. Either way I do wish you all the luck in the world. You deserve someone who gives you the effort you give back! keep your chin up girly! Dont settle!
'Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus', im telling you, read this book! We are reading it together now and I wish I can meet the author (John Gray) to thank him for his knowledge. We have to learn to accept each other not try to change or hope for something else or we will never be happy
I'm with jhphi, go to thta website.
I also think other posters are right to say that you can't change a person. Your FI is never going to be the guy who spontaneously does creative and romantic things.
With that said, if something is important to you, he should make an effort to do it in a way that works for you. If you need to go out to a nice dinner with him once a month, tell him. If you need flowers, tell him. If you need him to say I love you because, tell him. And frame it as a need. We all have a right to express our needs to our partners, and expect them to make a real effort to fulfill them.
Telling him that he has to schedule a date once a month may not be romantic, but if that is what helps you feel fulfilled, it will be worth it. Have him put it in his calendar (first Monday of the month: book restaurant). Take positive steps to ensure greater happiness without demanding a personality change.
Its possible that you have different love languages. to him, quality time may be a big one but saying lovey things aren't & he just "doesn't get it". Mr. Bee had posted a link about it in some other post I read. its really helped every couple i know (who's read it) understand more about their SO & themselves. maybe buy it for yourself for your bday & read thru it together?
The book is called The Five Love Languages & its on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Love-Languages-Secret-That-Lasts/dp/0802473156/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_c
Or you can google it & find out most of the info for free, but the book is better :). If you do go this book route, say its something that it will help you learn more about each other... not that he needs to change. hopefully this will help!
after posting i saw monita's post & i agree, tell him its how you feel loved (after reading the book or googling that) & that you need that. ask him how he feels the most loved (even if you think you know) & maybe its something you never considered. even thou his proposal wasn't too romantic, hopefully he'll make up for it during your engagement :).
It's ok to be disappointed in your proposal! I was, Quietserenity was... a lot of women were, and it doesn't mean that we had sky-high expectations or that our fiances aren't worthy of us. If you were happy with your relationship before he proposed, great! Who are we to judge? But I do agree that he seems to have become complacent. Maybe it's time you stand up for yourself and have expectations of him? You should read "Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others"--almost all of the men they polled said that their soon-to-be wives made it clear that they expected to be treated a certain way, and they called them on it when they didn't. So I say go for it--lock him in that bedroom until he has a genuine, sincere, heartfelt note!
Thanks to everyone for their advice. I had a look at that website and it was eye opening. I speak a completely different language. I'm all about words of affirmation and physical touch/quality time and he is clearly in the buying gifts and doing things for your partner. He often buys me little gifts and goes out of his way to help me. We spend time doing things involving common interests (I enjoy sport too). I believe my problem is completely about expressing our affection in different ways. He has organised a holiday to South Africa for us where he plans to buy me a ring. I may ask him to hold on to the ring and give it to me when he organises a special night/weekend and tell me all the things I've been wanting to hear. He asked me to marry him, which was lovely in itself but it wasn't a proposal!!
Thanks greatly to all my counsellors!!!
I decided to talk to him about it. I asked him if he had really meant to propose to me? He got annoyed and said of course he did he would't have asked if he didn't mean it. I explained that I thought he may have felt pressured to ask and because there was no planning and excitement afterwards he may not have meant it and I wanted him to be sure. "Of course I'm sure..Christ I can't do anything right!!"..... I explained that I know his ways of expressing himself are different to mine but it would mean a lot if when he gives me the ring if he could organise an evening and say some words. He said okay but not happy at all!!! I reassured him the night was still lovely (I did choose a nice restaurant) and I appreciated the question and I'm wrapped he asked and looking forward to marrying him. I really did not want to hurt him and I think I have :-(
I'm not sure if that was selfish.. I'm not sure if I don't give myself enough credit and should have more confidence in knowing its okay to ask for things. I just get sick of being the one to ask for more when he never asks anything extra of me.
You're not being selfish, and it's ok to ask for these things. I'm sure he's a little hurt, but if you give him some time, I'm also sure he'll come around. After all, he can't really argue that he didn't put any effort into it! Good for you for standing up for yourself, and communicating with him. (And you're not asking too much). Good luck, and have fun in South Africa!
I really hope the holiday works out for you both... maybe use the setting away from your typical daily life to address some of the things you both need from the realtionship. The initiave to do romatic things should spill over into your futures together after the vacation as well. I'll also advocate some patience... if your guy is a blokey bloke he probably takes some time to get things into his head, (I know mine does!) but once he understands he usually goes one better than what I say I want!
I feel bad for some guys...they get nagged pretty much, about proposing and getting the ring and when they do what they have been nagged to do...it wasn't good enough, it wasn't right, it wasn't what the girl needed. I think if this guy is so great and wonderful then you should know who he is and from what you said his proposal fits in with his general way of treating you. If you aren't happy with his proposal I think there are going to be many many things you aren't happy with in the future with him.
@Quietserenity- OMG, you got proposed to in a parking lot? ME TOO!!!! Hooray, I'm not the only one to be proposed to in a parking lot!!! I guess... at least he did it in the parking lot of my favorite restaurant (somehow, that makes me feel better). :)
I'm very glad we could help you :). I think I gave you the link to the wrong book, that one is for people who are already married. Since you're getting married, you may still want that one, but that author makes different versions of it. just realized that now. i still recommend you get one of those books thou :).
& its IMPORTANT for you to ask for things!! if you hold it in, you will just keep feeling unloved more often, when its just a communication thing. after awhile, you might start feeling unloved & not as prone to treat him as loving due to lack of respect since he doesn't show you he loves you like you need. but maybe talking things thru will really help, get the book. ha i'm not a book sales person, i promise!
usually how you "speak" your love language, is how you feel loved. so if he loves to get you gifts just because, maybe sometimes you can give him things just because. maybe he will start to realize it that way.
my advise would be don't pressure him in the "how to propose to you", let him know how you feel & what you would like/love, but don't give him a lot of details. its the guy who wants to arrange the proposal (usually) & wow he's going all the way to south africa to give you your ring?! that's super romantic & sweet. even if he doesn't say it right, or even if its not as romantic as you'd like, he's probably counting the trip as part of his proposal & not just the exact time he gives you your ring. "its the journey not the destination" that will make it super special :)
oh & not to worry you, but in some places in south africa its dangerous to wear flashy jewelry. so if he does propose to you there, keep your ring well hidden til safely home. that's only if you're going to certain parts of africa, i'm not sure which ones are "good" & "not good".
After 6 years my proposal wasn't all it was cracked up to be either....don't worry, that's what you have us for, to VENT!! Life isn't a fairytale for all of us, but you have found a man that you love to spend the rest of your life with so be happy, and start planning :)
Hate to be a cynic, but....
Holycow, I would be a little concerned with a response like, "Christ I can't do anything right!!" It just seems a bit harsh based on the way you described the situation. He probably knows you are insecure about being "too needy" and knows what buttons to push to get out of a sticky situation.
It is not unreasonable to have your needs met. You deserve to be happy and feel loved!
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I have been with my partner for 5 years. He has talked about wanting to marry me from our first year, (drunkedly)and set dates that he would do it by. Time and time again. I began to feel foolish as each time he'd make a promise, I'd get my hopes up and feel disappointed again when it didn't happen. Finally 4 years on I got frustrated and tried to sort out what our future had in store (in a gentle approach). He said he had no money for a ring (yet buys himself jet-skis, new cars etc) and wanted it to be perfect... I let it go.
Eventually I organise a nice dinner out for us that he still owed me from a sporting bet we made with each other years earlier - it was my only way to get him to take me to a nice restaurant!!! I chose and booked the restaurant on the day and sent him a text at 5pm to be ready by 7pm. During the dinner he proposed. I felt disappointed after he said how perfect he wanted it to be, he didn't do anything. I felt led on and disappointed. No ring, no bended knee, he didn't organise the evening, didn't ask my dad or say anything sweet. The worst part was, we got home and he sat on the couch to watch the soccer!!! No taking me to the bedroom and having his way with me ;-)
I know he loves me and I know I have a great catch but this was the one moment in my life where I would have a chance to have something romantic happen to me and it didn't. I wasn't fussed about the ring I just wanted the thought. I wanted most of all to hear him say something positive about why he loves me. I know he does but despite my asking he is unable to tell me.
I don't want to get upset at him about the lack of effort because it will tarnish the memory even more. Thanks for letting me vent. Thanks for the earlier posts that remind me to appreciate the life partner I have. And damn all those rediculous love fairytales that give women false hope and expectation!!!