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I could write a book on this subject, because I really feel like marriage takes time and work, a LOT of work. I don't really support the idea that being "unhappy" is a reason to get a divorce. That's not to say that I don't empathize with those that have chosen to do that, but it's just not why I chose to get married.
When I took my vows, I didn't think to myself, well it's okay because if I'm unhappy these won't mean anything. No way jose! I was a very aware of the commitment I was making, and it's gonna take more than just unhappiness to defeat our marriage!
I mean, I'm unhappy sometimes and so is my husband, but that just makes the other try harder to help through the hard times, it's what makes us stronger and brings us closer. I mean, life is full of ups and downs and I can't imagine not wanting my husband to be my side through all of them.
I'm just rambling at this point, but I think loving someone is a conscious choice. You don't just happen to love someone, you make the choice to love them - for better or for worse. When I chose to get married, that was the commitment I was making to my husband. No matter what, I'm going to stand by his side and work with him through whatever he's feeling.
Okay, I'm gonna jump off my soap box now. ;)
I think marriage is so beautiful and so holy because it is the closest resemblance of Christ's relationship with the church (US!).
Miss Coconut is 100% right that loving someone is a conscious choice that must be made on a daily basis.
In order to truly have the right mindset about marriage and a successful marriage, one's attitude cannot be "In what way will this person complete me and bring ME happiness?" but it should be "IN WHAT WAY, CAN I SERVE MY SPOUSE IN ORDER TO BRING THEM MORE JOY AND SATISFACTION?". That isn't what our culture teaches today.
Both spouses will not always be happy at the same time, which is normal and fine. Fights are normal. Resolving fights and forgiving is REQUIRED. One of the most important aspects of disagreements is that when they come and one spouse falls, is to fall FORWARD! As long as you are not pushing yourself away...or shutting the other person out...you will continue to grow closer.
I'd really encourage you to read Sacred Marriage by Gary Thomas.I read it and LOVE it! I skipped the chapter on sex since my wedding is still 5 months away...but I can't wait to go back and read the book again whenever I am married. It's great.
Much Love! :)
Another *really* good book is by Debbie Pearl, called 'Created to be his help meet.'
This book was given to me as a gift and I felt so blessed and I also better understood how to make my marriage the best it can be!
Lately I've been wondering what the rate of divorce is for weddingbee readers as compared to other bridal websites. I'd like to think that we are more grounded and less caught up in the actual wedding...
Someone should do a study and compare the rates of divorce within a couple of years for various sites.
I do think many people don't view marriage with the gravitas it deserves. I don't feel that way here.
I think may people blame unhappiness on their partner/marriage when the real problem lies within that person. Your partner can never be your be all, end all. It is too bad that people think that everyone must be happy all the time to be in a good marriage.
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I think that marriage is a work in progress. It is a commitement, and communication is key. Talking about the fact that one is unhappy is important... and finding a solution (other than seperation) is important as well. Its way to easy to say...ok i want a divorce (rather than work things out)
Majority of the time, if one person feels a certain way, it usually reflects both persons and the relationship in itself.
E.g. if one person cheats on the other... there is more than just the cheating to it. You need to analyize why it was done and majority of the time, its all about the relationship. Its a 2 person thing - anyways I think
Marriage to me is a sacred covenant. It's too valuable to be thrown aside because of unhappiness. Besides, when both spouses are committed to eachother's interests before their own, and "loving eachother better than themselves", joy will come from it. Selflessness is the key in my relationship with my fi now...and it's going to take a lot more of that forebearance and forgiving when we're married.
Divorce isn't an option, so we will work hard to make sure it works and to keep our relationship on fire. It doesn't just come naturally all the time!
I'm not religous, but I truly believe that marriage is forever. This may sound sad, but I don't think that it's totally realistic to think I'll totally be head over heels in love with my spouse forever. You are in love, you learn to live with eachother, and you find a way to co-exist. I mean I suppose that's the worst case scenario (falling out of 'love' but finding your way in partnership)... I guess I've just braced myself to believe that there is a possibility I wont be "in love" forever with my partner, but that we will continue to work on being good partners in marriage and live up to our vows. I guess I fell in love with my husbad at such a young age that I never really felt a huge desire for finding my other half, or a life companion. I am very much an only child, and while I am so lucky to have found my husband, I sometimes think about how one day we wont be crazy about eachother, but that it will be my lifes mission to make it work, and continue to be, at the least, good companions to eachother until the end.
Religious or not, marriage is still a commitment. I told my husband, Divorce is not an option well before we took the plunge. It's good to hear that people are holding marriage in such high regard. It takes work to maintain any relationship. A marriage is much closer and much more involved than a friendship so it takes more work, a deeper commitment and will give you a greater return on your investment. If you haven't seen About Schmidt - rent it.
I think when a person is unhappy within themselves, that person will be unhappy with anyone they are with. If he/she decides to get divorced or separated becaushe he/she is unhappy, it won't change with a new person. The initial happiness will only be temporary; be it lust, be it the initial excitement of dating. A friend of mine put it perfectly - you may have all the things you think you need for a marriage ie. ring, money, wedding, but really "You just need to like each other A LOT".
I hate to start out this way, but I suppose it depends. On the one hand, I absolutely agree with pinotnoir that you have to make a choice to be happy, and you have to find the resources for happiness within yourself. If you don't have that capability, then you're always going to be looking for something outside yourself to make you happy, and you're going to have problems. If you're unhappy married, it's entirely possible you're going to be just as unhappy divorced.
However, if you went into your marriage thinking that the other person would make you happy, maybe you got married for the wrong reasons. A husband, or a wife, might make you happy in the short term - the way a new house, or a new car, or a new job might - but eventually you're going to figure out that there are problems with any job, or house, or relationship, and you have to make the best of it and work through them.
I do think that perhaps people who got married for the wrong reasons might be better off divorced. I have plenty of friends like that - he married her because he wanted a housekeeper and roommate; she married him because she wanted a baby. Neither one of them was happy, because they honestly never really wanted each other, but only the thing they thought the other person could give them. If that's the deal you made, then when the thing you thought you wanted turns out not to make you happy after all, what is left? It would be great if you could work it out, but maybe the other person really deserves someone who actually loves them for themselves. I also have a lot of friends who are much happier in their second marriages than they were in their first, and I think it's mostly because they learned something important about what they actually should be looking for in a relationship.
And, after all that, I'm so sorry about your friends Mr. Bee. It's always sad when friends are unhappy, and it's hard to see your friends make bad decisions for whatever reason. We have a couple who are our very good friends, and they are going through a really rough time. It's obviously hard for them, but it's hard for us too - mostly that we love them both, and hate to see them hurting, but also because they are being so stupidly hurtful to each other that sometimes we just want to shake them and ask what the heck they are thinking.
I remember going through pre-martial counseling... and learning that being married is to "die to yourself." It gave me a deeper understanding that this marriage was not just to make me happy, but that we were going to serve each other until we die. I think that divorce should not even be an option in all stages of marriage.
I don't agree with the whole notion of "I deserve to be happy"--- that's unrealistic, selfish and suggests unhealthy expectations. Life is going to be pretty crappy sometimes, whether you have a great husband/wife or not. I totally agree that being happy all the time doesn't necessarily make a good marriage. I barely know what I'm talking about because I'm such a newbie but I'm pretty sure that the couples who have been married 50+ years can say that their marriage has lasted only because they're Happy People. I'm sure there was a lot of sacrifice and unhappy moments sometime.
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No one is happy all the time. If every time I felt upset, depressed, or unhappy I asked for a divorce we would not have made it past the first month! My husband and I made a commitment to eachother when we took our vows -- that incluced "for better and for worse". I think this modern belief that our personal happiness comes before everything else at the expense of others is why the divorce rate is so high. A marriage joins TWO people, and therefore both people need to be considered. Those that do not understand this should stick to dating and not get married.
There are bound to be rough patches and stormy seas throughout the years in any relationship, but if two people made the commitment to marriage they should stick it out and make it work. Happiness isn't making him happy or make her happy, but working it out so that both people are happy. I guess marriage is too sacred for me to just call it quits because i'm not happy about something. It's for better or for worse right?
Maybe your friend married for the wrong reasons or like some said...he's an unhappy person inside.
About the divorce ratio on weddingbee...I always wonder that too...are any of the 'bees' divorced now? It would be interesting to know. Whenever they drop off the blogosphere I always think they're having marriage problems! (I'm sure they're not but you know..)
I had personal experience with this. I won't go in to the details, because i'm past it now and much more mature in understanding what it takes to have a successful marriage. But I do want to say that I'm SO much happier now, and know what it takes to STAY happy through hard times. The first time, I was young and dumb, and didn't know the kind of effort or bond both people needed to have to make it work. So, it didn't work. Not because of abuse or infidelity, but because of unhappiness. I never thought I'd be in this situation, but not so long ago, I found myself in it. I did a lot of soul searching, and as a result I am now much happier and MUCH more matured after the whole ordeal. I'd never want to go through that again, but I'm stronger and more aware now.
Now that I'm married, I think a lot more about divorce and what led people to divorce. I'm newly married (4 months!) and feel more in love everyday...and that makes me wonder why people stop loving each other and makes them decide to end their marriage (other than the obvious circumstances of abuse or unfaithfulness).
I wonder about the friends/family who divorce for other reasons: drug/alcohol addiction, gambling, porn addiction, workaholics, loss of a child, one spouse refusing to grow up now that they are parents (partying to much and being selfish). And I wonder what I would do and how we would work through it if we were ever faced with such unfortunate circumstances...
Someone very close to my husband got a divorce (shortly after they got married) because she was really unhappy...and to this day no one really understands her reasons for not working through her marriage (he wanted to go to counseling when he found out she was unhappy). My husband tells me they were very much in love and that her ex was a great guy...it is baffling to me...
I'm just rambling now too, but to (sort of) respond to Mr. Bee's question, I don't think you are honoring your marriage vows if you are unhappy and decide to look for happiness elsewhere. If you love your husband and believed the committment you made on your wedding day, being unhappy is not a valid reason for getting a divorce. If my husband is unhappy (and especially if I'm the cause of his unhappiness), he knows he owes it to our marriage to work at it with me (and I owe it to him and our marriage to work at those things that are causing him to be unhappy). If we ever doubted this is the understanding we have, we would never have gotten married.
Marriage. is. work. Many couples don't seem to understand this going into the wedding. They're happy now and they think they're going to magically stay happy. My mom has always told me that a couple of months after the wedding, you'll wake up one morning, look at your spouse and think "Oh God, what have I done? I have to be with them forever??" and that's when the real marriage starts. Growing together and overcoming the difficult times are huge parts of being married.
My parents have gone through probably five or six major events that would have made less stubborn people get divorced. There were some really unhappy times growing up (though they hid the worst from us), but we all came through it, and now my parents know that they have a strong marriage that can stand anything. They're both very happy with where they are now, but it took 30 years of a marriage roller coaster to get there. (not everything was bad, just a lot of ups and downs)
I hope I'm not just saying this because I'm just getting started on marriage, but to me marriage is a commitment that has to be taken seriously. I'm going to be announcing to the world that my new husband is my new family. Did I divorce my mom or my brothers every time I got mad at them?
That is why it really burns me up when "celebrities" divorce, but then still hang out like they are best friends. If you can still put up with each other, and even be friendly with each other, then you can stay married (I'm sure people other than celebrities do this, but those are the ones I see). I agree with Mrs. Penguin; it's not so much that I won't be as in love with my fiancee 30 years from now, but it will be different and you have to adjust to those differences.
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I agree with everything that all the Bees have written on here. Marriage involves work, not that there's always going to be hard times, but you do need to think about the other person's needs in the relationship.
I think that marriage is indeed a commitment, but you know what - if I am unhappy within any commitment I will remove myself from it - marriage or otherwise. I am not going to live my life under unhappy circumstances just because I signed a piece of paper.
I am not religious and I married my husband because I am very much in love with him. I would hope that whatever hardships we might face as a couple we could get through together. If it can't be worked out - we would go our seperate ways. I really can't see it happening in our near or distant future because we are so open and honest with each other - but who knows what the future holds? I hope it holds a lifetime of love and happiness! :)
People marry for many different reasons - for some it's relgious, for others it's a deeper level of commitment and for some it's so that they might be taken more seriously as a couple. I don't think anyone should have to live through a lifetime of unhappiness and strife just because they signed a piece of paper. It is possible to fall out of love. No one gets married thinking they will get divorced, but it happens.
MrBee - there is a lot of pressure from society to get married. Couples are not taken as seriously by their peers and families unless they "take the plunge." So that's one reason to not just keep dating.
You are lucky, you are in a very happy, healthy marriage - if you situation was different and you and/or MrsBee were very unhappy together you might see things differently. To you it is a commitment, but to your friend I'm sure initially it was a commitment, but really, your friend's own health (physical and emotional) and happiness is important. Counseling can work - but if you are young, there are no kids involved and it's just not working, why not just get out and move on? You would do the same if you were "just dating."
A good friend of mine is in the process of divorcing her husband now. They haven't even been married a year. Did she expect this? Heck no. Did she try to work it out? Heck yes! But it's not working and she's young and has her whole life ahead of her - why should she be "stuck" in an unhappy marriage/life because she signed a piece of paper and threw a big party a few months ago? And really, who am I to judge her decision? It's her life.
You have no idea what goes on in other people's lives and behind closed doors. And honestly, if one person is unhappy there is no way the other person can truly be happy as well. Marriage and relationships are give and take - it cannot only be one-sided. So of course marriage only makes sense when both people are happy - because it really cannot function in any other way. No relationship can. It's really not fair for us to judge the decisions other people make because we are not in their shoes.
PS - I also think that people can work through problems and BOTH sides can be happy, and yes it takes hard work. But sometimes both sides aren't willing to do the work and if that's the case, it's important to move on.
I appreciate your opinion MrBee, but remember that there are many different types of people in the world and many different types of life scenarios that people are living through. It is not up to us to judge them - there is often more to the story than what you are hearing.
I agree with Lani. Marriage is hard, and it IS a commitment, and I vow to my husband-to-be that I will work hard every single day to be happy with him, through the good times, and the bad times. However, that is my situation, and I am fortunate enough to be with the most amazing person in the world (at least to me!) and one who promises to work with me through everything. But everyone has a different background, and it's not my place to judge anyone.
On a personal note, my parents got divorced a few years ago after being together for 25 years. I know that they worked hard to fix everything that was broken in their relationship, including going to counseling on many occasions... but it just didn't work for them. Should the both continue to be absolutely miserable for the next 25 years just because they don't want to break their marriage vows? To be honest, my parents are MUCH happier now, and my brother and I have a much better relationship with them than I did before. Divorce isn't always a bad thing, sometimes it's just an acknowledgment that its time to move on.
Lani - I hope it didn't sound like I was judging my friends who were suffering emotional abuse and infidelity!
I was referring to the friend of mine whose husband left her because he was unhappy. My friend viewed marriage as more than a piece of paper, and a wedding as more than a big party... so she was devastated when her husband felt differently.
I guess the real lesson here is that we all have different perspectives on what marriage means, and it's important to make sure that we share the same perspective as our partner.
I think there are two ways of looking at this. I think that when you get married it should be forever. Period. Day to day unhappiness will come and go (as it should) and life goes on.
I do think however that people grow up and change. Maybe when I got married at twenty I was convinced that I would never want children- and I married someone who felt the same way. Maybe turning thirty made me realize that I really did want kids. Maybe my husband is happy never having children and doesn't want to discuss it. Is it his fault I changed my mind. Is it mine? There really is no compromise here on that issue. It wouldn't be fair to me to give up my desire to be a mother because my husband doesn't want them anymore than it would be fair to him to have children when he really has no desire to.
Btw this is just an example. My point is that sometimes as we grow up we change and our partners don't always change with us. I agree that vows are to be taken seriously but I don't think you should stay in a situation that makes you miserable because of them. Especially if there isn't a compromise to be found. I think the trick is marrying someone that isn't likely to change in those critical ways. Or maybe it just makes sense to wait to get married until your a little older and actually know what you want and need. My wants and needs are totally different than they were when I was in my early twenties.
I imagine most of us older brides can look back at relationships that we had in our early twenties and shake our heads in wonder. Well, at least I can! LOL!
MrBee - it didn't sound like you were judging your friends that divorced because of infedility or abuse but it does sound like you are judging your friend who is unhappy.
Your friend may have just told you that he/she was unhappy because he/she didn't want to tell you the whole story. My point is that you don't know everything that everyone is going through. Maybe being "unhappy" is the abbreviated story and there is a lot more that you don't know. Even so, being unhappy I believe is enough to end it.
I agree with some of the other comments about happiness - life can be crappy sometimes, but day-to-day I believe that I deserve happiness. I don't think it's selfish at all - but I want to be happy in my life with my family and yes, there will be hard times, and maybe some unhappy times, but overall I think that hoping to lead a happy life isn't too much to ask. For better or for worse is one thing, but being unhappy every single day is another. I'm not just talking "moments." I'm talking about the fact are not happy with the person you chose to spend your life wife - you no longer get along, or have fallen out of love or there are other more serious issues. Of course I would try my best to make things work, but if they didn't and I/we would be happier seperated, then that's what I would do. And there is nothing wrong with that even though there may not have been infedility or abuse.
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I think the main issue here is not whether or when it is ok to divorce. I think, rather, that this is about the connections between what we believe about divorce and what we believe about marriage.
In the past, permanence was a part of the very definition of marriage. This is one of the main things that set marriage off from other kinds of relationships, and which give marriage its special character and significance. In other words, marriage was a big deal precisely because it was unbreakable and lifelong.
Now, of course, this is no longer the case. Few people, perhaps, go into a marriage expecting that it will end. But most people, I think, go into marriage with the knowledge that it is not necessarily permanent -- knowing that people can and do end marriages all the time, and for all sorts of reasons.
If marriage no longer permanent, then it seems relevant to ask, "what is marriage?" If it is not a permanent bond between two people, what kind of bond is it? How is it different from other kinds of relationships? Or is it different at all? Is it, as many people have said, just a formality?
Obviously, this is a question that each person can and should answer only for themselves. But it is a question worth thinking about, and perhaps worth talking about.
I think marriage only works when both people are happy.
However, being unhappy shouldn't/doesn't mean- go looking elsewhere and get out of the marriage- it means WORKING on your marriage so that you can be happy.
My husband and I are definitely in this for the long haul. Before we were married we agreed that if we developed marital troubles, were unhappy- we would seek counseling and try to work it out.
I subscribe to the happy form of thought to marriage. I look at it like I look at a lot of my friendships of the past. I've moved apart from my friends emotionally to the point that we really dont work well together anymore. To me, it is pointless to stay in a relationship if the two really dont have anything in common anymore. I look at a lot of my friends and their parents who have gotten divorced and many of them wait for so long just because of the kids or some other reason even though they have never been happy. The way I see it- I only have one life to live, maybe 70 years or so and life is too short to be unhappy especially when you can spend it being happy with someone else. I also think that counseling is a must before it gets to the divorce part though. I think my opinion is based mostly on the fact that I have a child and don't want to traumatize him and his future relationships if he sees me and my FI unhappy all the time. I think most children of divorced parents subscribe to this thought mainly because they see how much happier and healthier their parents are without the added stress of an unhappy marriage. Kids become the victims in unhappy marriages and I don't think enough people realize that
I'm not going into my marriage with the idea that we will end up divorcing but we both understand that it can happen and accept it. We have talked about what would automatically break it-like abuse and infedelity- and about when to consult outside help. I agree with the above poster who says that it is mostly a question between the couple not anyone else.
Marriage is forever. That being said, I understand that sometimes divorce becomes the only option. I can only say what is right for me.
The FH and I both agree that marriage is forever. We are trying to do the things we can now to ensure that our relationship is healthy and strong. I am learning to speak up more often when upset, and I am learning that he is the first guy to actually want to know so we can make the situation better.
Marriage is the beginning, or at least I feel that way. You don't have kids thinking, well, we can send them back if they don't work. You don't get pets thinking this either. And I have had plenty of reason to send my shoe eating, make-up munching, tug-o-war playing dogs to the pound. But I entered the relationship with each dog knowing it was for life. LIFE. They have done some bad stuff, but I have found ways to work it all out. We aren't perfect, that is the dogs and I, but we do the best we can with what we have. Same with the FH. Best we can with what we have. We are working on gaining knowledge about marriage and conflict resolution and I think this will help a great deal as well.
My husband and I feel we are each responsible for our own happiness as individuals, and together we are responsible for the quality of our relationship....part of being responsible for our relationship means taking care of our own happiness so that we can be good partners to each other.
If your partner is unhappy, I think you should support and challenge your partner to explore those feelings and make positive changes. That being said, if your partner has decided that the path of happiness means ending your marriage, you can't exactly force them to stay with you. I believe everyone has the right to happiness, but in a marriage, happiness and partnership both have to be cultivated. Divorces happen for all kinds of reasons, and the only generalization that I'm willing to make about it is that I'm genuinely sad for any couple or family that has to go through it.
I once read that love is fate but staying in love is work
I agree, you meet by chance but what you do with that is up to both parties; I am a stickler, I stick to things when the going gets tough, a relationship is no different
here's wishing the best of luck to everyone here, I'm sure it's everyone's deepest fear
I'll try not to get too deep in this, or too controversial, but there was a point in time in a past marriage, when I realized that I had made a terrible mistake. I had married the wrong person. He did too, and while he didn't admit it, I believe that is how he felt, and explains many problems that we had. I did seek personal counseling. I asked him to seek marriage or personal counseling with me; he declined. By the time he agreed, it was too late; I knew that as much as I cared about him, if I stayed, I would have been a terrible wife. I wasn't the same person, and we both deserved to be genuinely happy. Someone needed to just say it.
That being said, FI and I have a "no exit" clause; no one gets to leave. We're actually writing kind of a contract. I find it very comforting...
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When my then-husband said he just didn't feel loved any more, I asked him whether he didn't feel loved because of something that I was doing, or because it was just hard for him to believe that anyone would love him. He couldn't answer, yet went ahead with a divorce anyway.
In my view, too many people say they need to get divorced because they are not happy in the marriage. But no marriage is 100% happy or 100% unhappy. And if you do not think about why you are unhappy or what you could do about it, the likelihood is that you will end up in another unhappy relationship down the line. After all, you chose this person who is now making you unhappy. So either your original choice, or your current circumstances, are making you unhappy. If it is current circumstances, then you have a chance of having a happy marriage later if you work on the situation. If it is your original choice, then at least you need to figure out why you chose that person, and what you can do in the future to avoid choosing the same type of person.
In my case, my ex never thought through those issues, and has ended up drifting from one relationship to another in the 13 years we have been divorced. I, on the other hand, have been with the same person (who is very different from my ex) for the past eight years, and am about to marry her.
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A few of my friends got divorced within a year. I won't go into details but if I were in their situations, I might have gotten divorced too (there was serious emotional abuse, infidelity, etc.).
But recently, a friend of mine discovered her husband was unhappy and wanted a divorce (well, a separation... but it's clear where this is heading). There was no emotional abuse, no infidelity; he was just unhappy and thought that marriage only makes sense when both people are happy.
I disagree... marriage is a committment. The whole point (to me) is to stick by each other in tims of difficulty. Otherwise, why not avoid marriage and just keep dating?
But it did get me thinking about what he said. Does marriage only make sense when both people are happy? If one person is unhappy, should they be free to look for happiness somewhere else?