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(long!! sorry!)
Ladies, be honest!!
So, Jason pretty much said the other day that he doesn't want to even think about marrying me until I do more around the house... I.E. keep it pretty much spotless and clean up after myself and him.. (Which ok, I'm not the neatest person, so I can understand that but cleaning up after him too? and keeping the house SPOTLESS?! we have a dog and two cats, spotless isn't really an option) But thats not what bothered me the most... HIS REASONING: I don't pay anything toward the mortgage (because I don't make enough to right now... and I pay rent/bills on the place I was supposed to live in) He wants me to do all of the dishes (like never have a dish in the sink) do all of the laundry and sweep/mop/dust etc (we currently have a cleaning lady to do the sweeping/mopping/dusting every week)... BUT, here's why I got mad: I work just as many hours as he does a week, I have the same amount of education, so JUST BECAUSE I don't make as much I need to be "the maid"... He pretty much wants me to be a housewife, but still work... and makes it sound like if I paid an equal share of the mortgage/bills then this wouldn't be an issue.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not really complaining about WHAT he wants me to do, I've never claimed to be the neatest person in the world and I need to pick up after myself more, I UNDERSTAND THAT... but he wants me to pick up after him all the time too! I pay rent/bills for a rental house that I don't live in, and he's making me feel bad because I don't have any money to give him?! I feel like I'm being punished simply because I don't MAKE as much, regardless of how much I work (which is 40+hours a week, and I'm the only one who takes care of the dog, take him for walks, feed him, take him out to potty, feed the cats etc.) We are asleep/awake the same amount of time, just different hours... his excuse for not doing dishes/laundry/cleaning is because he just wants to go to bed after work (because it's 2-3 in the morning) but YEA ME TOO!
I don't like feeling like I OWE him and need to be his maid because I don't pay toward the mortgage, I HAVE SOMEWHERE ELSE TO LIVE, I PAY RENT AND BILLS TOWARD THAT! I don't live there because he INVITED me to live here... And then to hang the "I won't want to marry you unless you do this" over my head... then say it's my fault you feel that way because I opened your eyes to girls not being lazy bitches?! thhhaaannkkks.
So, what do you think? Am I wrong to be upset by what he said? (I'm not mad that he wants me to clean up after MYSELF more, and clean when it needs to be done, but he wants me to keep the place spotless and pick up after him too!)
Or am I overreacting because I'm really just upset because I don't make more money and he likes to point that out?
(thanks for reading all of that!)
I do think you have a right to be upset. It seems to me, that given the amount of time you both work and the number of responsibilities you both have, the cooking/cleaning/etc, should be split equally too. This concerns me because it sounds kinda like he's expecting a subservient wife. I don't know if that's the case, but from what you said, it could be a problem. I'd sit down with him and outline what it is you both take care of. Maybe when he sees it that way, he'll realize he's not doing much more than you are and he'll realize you both have to maintain the household.
That other place you have to live? I'd probably be on my way there right now. At least enough to scare him into realizing that his expectations are ridiculous. Sorry that might be a bit overreacting on my part, but that is a really sexist and rude thing for him to expect. A couple should be about compromise and give and take, and this sounds like an awful lot of take. And further, marriage is not a bargaining chip. Either you will or you won't. That would piss me off the most. Ultimatums like that should be reserved for super serious things, not as coercion to get a maid. I think you need to seriously talk about his expectations, your expectations, and the financial situation. You are working as hard as you can, and it is not OK for him to say that girls are lazy bitches just because you are not as neat as he'd like. I would either move out (hey, he's the one putting the wedding on the line; I'd play hardball) like I said before, or I would stay and pick up after myself so that anything of mine were never out of place... and let him pick up after himself. Then, he can't complain that you are lazy or not pulling your share. I want to say look into subletting your place so you can reallocate your funds, but I think the bigger problem is not the money itself as his domineering, sexist attitude. Good luck.
WHAT THE HELL. That would be an effing deal breaker for me. That is the most disgusting, disrespectful request I've ever heard. He's not more valuable in the relationship just because he makes more. JESUS $#%&$@^(!@. Just reading this is getting my blood boiling. If you contributed less money AND spent more time at home, then I think the request would be justified. But just because you chose a career that makes less than his (which he has known all along, right?) does not mean that he gets to have special rights in the house. Tell him to use all his extra income to hire a maid full time. Then run for the hills.
I would be living in my own house right now as well. I can understand spending time together but he needs to realize you are not his maid.
I don't understand how you equate him asking this of you to you not making as much money though?
I would maybe try to get a better understanding of things. Does he want you to take care of the household chores since you aren't paying to live there? Or is this something he actually expects of you just in general (ie even if you were helping pay the mortgage).
Yikes - sounds like he has a bit of growing up to do. If he's worried about the $$ and contributing he needs to talk to you about that and you guys need to figure out what to do about the other place and if he feels like he's worried that you'll break up and he'll have lost money renting to other people or what his deal is about that. But to turn it into you should be his servant because he chooses to have you sleep over.....no, no, no, hopefully he was just being a jerk in expression and not actually going there. Sounds like a real money talk needs to be had but you being his servant is not the solution.
Agreed with the others. WTF mate?! I would set him straight--and trust me, I'd have been yelling so loud, he wouldn't have been able to hear afterwards. What a ridiculous statement for him to make and what a sexist thing to say.
I'd personally be pissed. If he wants a maid, he can hire one. If he wants a girlfriend/wife, I'd tell him to clean up his act because from my point of view he's being a jerk. (okay, a little strong, but really, keep a spotless house or I won't marry you?!? Is this 1955?) You seem to have a ton more patience than me because I'd already be packing up my things to move into my other apartment.
PS- there is no option in the poll for what I think ;)
I didn't vote because there was no option agreeing with you! I don't think you're wrong for feeling this way. Your bf is holding ridiculous standards and it's not fair. I highly doubt you're the only person making messes. Like one of other girls said, I'd hightail it back to the place you pay rent on. Tell him you're going to stay there for a little while...and watch how quickly his house get's messy. Just because you make less money than him right now doesn't mean you have to take over the household duties. I don't work right now and my FH would never expect me to keep the entire house clean but I do it because I want to. If he told me I had to do it or made me feel like crap because I didn't, I wouldn't do it! You aren't his child you don't have to listen to his requests. Also you are his GIRLFRIEND not his wife so you're only "cleaning responsibilities" are cleaning up after yourself and your pets. Idk who he thinks he is expecting you to do all that cleaning while working your full time hours too. I get mad and upset for you just thinking about it lol Anyway try to be nice but def. talk to him about this and explain to him that you aren't obligated to clean up after him and you appreciate him letting you live with him but if this is how hes going to be then you'll be moving back into your own place because you're not his maid. Maybe when you're married and you compromise and do more domesticated things for each other, you'll have no problem cleaning up after him and the entire house but for now you're just his girlfriend. OH oh and make sure you remind him that you're not his mom and he's not handicapped so he can clean up too.
My husband makes more than I do by quite a lot, and though we split bills and responsibilities around the house, I have never felt the way you have described. All of the things that we each do contribute to the household as a whole - you should not feel like you owe the other anything. If i were you, I would tell him how you feel. It's not fair to you to feel like a slave just b/c you make a little less than your fiance.
When we were having some growing pains, my fiance brought up concerns like this about the household - he's very neat, and I'm not as much. but not in a personal way.. more like, "I really can't feel at ease after work if the dishes are left in the sink" or something like that. I understand it's how he is, vs. how he thinks i should act. I make more of an effort to clean b/c it puts him at ease and shows him that i love him, not b/c it's women's work or something. I think you can make it work but he has to change his attitude and compromise with you. When my hubby and i have these talks, he usually will concede something to make things more fair.
Umm, WHAT? My FI makes a lot less than me and I don't expect him to pick up after me. That is ridiculous. If I were you, I'd tell him he better be willing to split the chores or YOU'RE not even going to think about marrying HIM.
Also, you really should be living where you're paying to live otherwise, you're just wasting money. Either that or end your lease and move in with him but before you do, make sure he understands you are not his maid.
You have a right to be more than a little upset, you have a right to be a lot upset.
He knows your financial situation, and he knew it when he asked you to move in. And now he's moving the goalposts on you, which is beyond unreasonable.
I would sit down with him and calmly point out to him why you're in this situation -- and that if he wasn't comfortable with the situation, then asking you to move in was probably premature. Explain that you see this as a relationship of two equals -- and that you both work equally hard, so in your view you should contribute equally to the household chores.
Ask him if you were contributing to the mortgage the amount you currently pay in rent and bills, would the chores be divided proportionally based on who pays what? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't.
His attitude seems to be way off here, and he needs to really reassess his priorities of what marriage is all about, in my view.
I guess I'm a little confused too. So, if you WERE paying towards the mortgage, would he be fine splitting household chores? If this is just a general expectation--ie: you need to clean up after him because that's what he expects out of a wife--BAD. Wife does not = maid. However, if he's feeling upset because you're not paying toward household expenses, despite living there, and he thinks this is a good way to even things out, I can understand that a little more. Still, this all seems weird to me. I think you guys need to have a SERIOUS talk. If he is upset that you're not paying toward household expenses, and the reason you can't afford to is because you're still paying your own, you two need to discuss why you're not comfortable giving up your place and really moving in with him. And, if I were you, I might go live in my own place until this was all figured out. I'm sorry you're dealing with this! Good luck!
*I should have clarified, his ex wife was lazy and a bitch... He wasn't calling me that, he was saying that since I made him realize that girls can be domestic (I cook and do laundry regularly and mend clothing when it rips etc. His ex wife couldn't boil an egg, or if she could- she just wouldn't, and apparently was really messy)... So he was saying that since I am not like her, he has come to expect more...
And him and I have talked in the past about women's roll in the home, and I had said that I don't mind being the "housewife" if I don't have to work or not work as much... But I AM messy, and I do need to clean up after myself-living by myself for so long clutter didn't bother me, but I understand living with someone that is different, and when I lived with my ex, I made more money and worked more so my ex took care of the cleaning/laundry without question/asking... But I did my part to keep it tiddy, and I have slacked here lately with the remodel and everything...
Thats bull. Hes being unreasonable. If you didn't work them MAYBE but just because you make less doesn't mean anything. You work just as much as him so he should do just as much as you around the house. I would tell him that I wouldn't even think about marrying him until he lets you have a part time job or no job so that you can have enough time and energy to take care of the house and animals. He is being selfish. Maybe start doing your part (picking up after your self so he can't complain about that) and then try to talk to him about how rediculous he is being, but in a nice way.
I agree with the other PP's who say maybe you should take some time & head back to your old place - let him stew for a couple of days without you.
Mostly, I think Amaryllis said it best -- "marriage is not a bargaining chip". THIS would be what sets me off over any other point. Two people who decide to share their lives together forever don’t make that decision on a conditional basis. The only excuse would be a severe circumstance (ie: if someone had a substance abuse problem or something along those lines).
Him saying he won't marry you until there's no cat hair on the couch, etc.?? Total B.S. & you have every right to call him on it.
Please...I would be packing up myself and my share of the pets so fast he would be dizzy seeing me moving around. You have to set those expectations now that you expect and equal partner and that you will BOTH share the housework equally b/c you BOTH make the mess, eat the food, use the laundry equally. You both work the same number of hours outside of the home so there should be no excuses for not doing housework on his part. PLUS...you have a cleaning lady. Housewives are at home all day so yeah...it would make sense then to have more of the load for housework. But you are not a housewife...you have a job...and you aren't married. It's a bad sign when a guy starts putting crazy conditions on a marriage proposal.
But it seems like you're frustrated about the role of having to pick up after him too. I agree that some discussion and agreement on cleanliness between couples needs to be reached. But you have every right to say there's some things he can do for himself, especially since you're mending and cooking and working. He doesn't need to turn into the lazy one at home and return what his ex-wife did to him.
It sounds like you're trying to be respectful of him by saying you recognize that you should be cleaner. It also sounds like he's being really disrespectful of you by telling you to do the cleaning just because you make less money. Now coming to an agreement about who contributes what seems fair, but this seems like you should be really pissed. It doesn't sound like he cares much about you, just wants a maid. You shouldn't marry him unless he has more respect.
Wow, that is crazy. Please tell me you're willing to call his bluff and move out until this is straightened. That's is totally wrong and actually scares me a little for you.
What is your plan?
Hun, you know it's 2010 right? It sounds like he's actually started to brainwash you to think it's ok for him to talk to you the way he does. NO matter what his ex wife did or didn't do it has nothing to do with you and he shouldn't hold expectations like a father would of a child lol "since i am not like her, he has come to expect more.." who the hell is this guy? I'm sorry but he sounds very old fashioned. Listen all you have to worry about is cleaning up after yourself and if you have the time to pick up after him, great do it if it makes you feel better. You said you don't mind being the housewife if you don't have to work or work as much, but you are working "as much" still so until you don't work at all or work less hours then you shouldn't feel like you have to do everything around the house. When you live with someone cleaning should be a shared responsbility end of story. No matter the working situation. If you were a stay at home wife or mother and you had nothing else to do then yeah I could see if he asked NICELY and politely "Do you think you could keep the house clean since I work so many hours and come home very tired?" but that isn't at all the situation. I just hate to hear you thinking it's ok for him to be like this. You said for yourself you don't owe him anything and he invited you to live with him, sooooo. I hope you take everyones advice here girl.
I'm with the other bees who said that they would be living at the rental house right now. This is ridiculous. If my husband ever said that to me, I would give him a swift kick in the behind. I don't think so pal. We're a team. When one works longer hours than the other, we pitch in to help each other out around the house.
He's going to school right now (and is almost done...yay!), so I do most of the laundry and housework b/c he literally works a FT job and then studies or goes to class for the rest of the night. It's just easier for me to do more of the share around the house b/c he has a ton of work to do for school. When he's done w/ school, he'll help our more b/c he gets home from work before I do. You guys are supposed to be a team that helps and compliments each other.
I also agree with the other bees in that it's a matter of respect. My husband makes a good amount more than I do, but he never makes me feel that I'm inferior to him because of that. In fact, he reminds me that in certain aspects of life, I'm just better at something than he is, and he's not afraid to ask me for help with that. It's the same for him. I'm more than proud of him for getting his masters degree, but he'll never let on that he thinks he's smarter than me b/c I don't have my master's. He needs to respect you more. Yes, you need to clean up a little more after yourself, but he also needs to chip in. Oooh...I'm so mad for you right now! Tell him to watch out or the hive is going to come sting him!
EDIT: PS....I voted wrong b/c I wanted to vote with you, but I don't think you gave that option when I responded...sorry!!!
I like what fourpeass said, "If I were you, I'd tell him he better be willing to split the chores or YOU'RE not even going to think about marrying HIM."
Ultimatums are ridiculous and not something you should have to deal with from a loved one. Especially from you future husband. What happens when you get married? It's completely unfair that he's treating you like that!
That is ridiculous! Like PP's have said marraige is NOT a bargaining chip. He should want to marry you because he love YOU not how clean you make his home. That seriously makes me sick. I wish he would read this thread and realize how rude and hurtful what he said to you was. Honestly, I would be seriously condidering moving into that other place you're paying rent on...
Sorry to be so blunt, but if someone said that to me, I'd break up with him immediately.
Not only are his expectations ridiculous and possibly sexist, but he's giving you an ultimatum on a proposal, which is just low. He should either want to marry you or not want to marry you. It's reprehensible to say "I'll marry you IF you do this for me."
COMPLETELY ridiculous--I would be steaming. My FI makes way more than I do, and he contributes more to bills and stuff, but he never holds it over my head or makes me feel like I'm not pulling my weight in our relationship. I think you need to have a talk to your FI about his expectations--and tell him they're completely outdated! Why is it SOLELY your responsibility to clean the house and pick up after the both of you? If you didn't work, I could understand his point a little better. But since you're working just as hard as he is, it's just unfair, and frankly mean, to make you feel bad.
Umm, he's insane. If my husband exclaimed that as the condition for our marriage, I wouldn't have married him. My husband and I both work the same hours as well, and he makes a little more than me, so he pays more of the rent and a litle more of the bills, and he's NEVER held it over my head. He probably knows how awful it could make someone feel. We both equally share cleaning and picking up responsibilities, and one of us will pick up some more slack if the other isn't feeling well or has had an especially bad day. But yeah, it's equal for the most part.
Honestly? I would leave and go back to your own house for a few days. He really has got to learn on his own that his expectations are unacceptable, and he'll never find any woman who would put up with that. This is not the 50s, which is apparently where he wants to be living.
You guys need a long talk. This sounds like a major communication problem. For what it's worth I don't think you should have to do more because you earn less.
He is using a proposal to get you to be his personal maid. I would move our right now.
Oh my! You need to tell him to stop or you wont marry him! My FI is in school and I pay for most of the bills, groceries, household expenses, even when we go out to eat/drink. Fotunately, I make a good living and we are good with money. Since he's home all day looking for work and doing HW for his credentials I appreciate when he cleans but the approach your BF is taking is all wrong. I don't mind helping out with the chores and I usually come home and make dinner. It's all about compromise. FI and I have agreed to split the dished 60/40 (him/me). I also clean up after myself and really don't want him messing up my closet anyway. And your situation you are actually working comparable hour, too! I would talk to him calmly and explain to him the unfairness of his deal. If he's not willing to work with you I would consider moving to you other place.
Fessing up -- I totally think I voted for "agreeing with him" in my haste to get to the typed reply. I saw "You're just upset about not making money" and clicked the other one, which I assumed was "No, he's wrong" and now that a third choice has been added, I realize that it was not... So just to adjust your vote and realize that not as many people agree with him as the poll would indicate. My bad!
And even if he did not call you a lazy bitch, anyone who calls women that in general has issues. Yes, maybe his specific situation with his ex caused him baggage, but it is still unfair of him to use that to project on you. It is almost an underhanded compliment, so you can boil and egg, you must be better than his ex... Well, no, you are just plain fabulous and thus better than his ex. 'Nuff said.
This is so many different types of wrong. Your fiance has got a serious case of "tit for tat." Making more money does not mean you get to be waited on like some sort of prince. If you have to do more housework to make up for your lower financial contributions to the household, then what happens someday if you guys have kids and you stay home with them for awhile? You won't be bringing in a salary at all then, so what will he expect? That he works all day and then comes home to relax while you raise chldren all day and all night? If it's this bad now, then I can hardly imagine what it would be like if you weren't already working your 40 hours a week, or if you ever got a pay cut. It sounds like you have some areas for improvement (cleaning up after yourself) but that he has gone off the deep end asking you to clean up after both of you while he gets to use his job as an excuse.
A marriage is made up of two individuals who function as a team. The individuals are responsible for themselves but also for their partnership. So if you need to be a little tidier, he can ask you to be a little tidier and I think you should do that. But you are not his maid or his mother. I think he's got some residual problems from his last marriage and is now projecting them on you: his ex-wife wouldn't lift a finger and now he's trying to turn the tables and do less himself while you lift all of yours. He's going to need to work on that asap or I think you're in trouble. I really feel for you...I'd put my foot down about this one if I were you.
That other apartment? Maybe spend some time there for a little while. He is, to my mind, being absolutely absurd, and threatening to withhold marriage is completely out of line.
It sounds as though he, and you, have more traditional ideas about gender roles, and that's fine. But what's he's basically saying here is that you have to live up to his exprectations of what it means to be a good wife while still fulfilling the more "manly" obligation of paying your way. It's hypocritical as f***. Not to mention self-serving and selfish.
A right to be upset is an understatement. I am seeing in anger at him just reading this. It seems like he's equating marriage as a reward for services he wants from you, and holding the fact that he has a more lucrative job over your head. It's not acceptable behavior in any decade, let alone this one.
How much a job pays is not really reflective of the effort / stress / time involved in it. Currently, I make more than my partner, since he's in grad school, but I come home and am done for the day whereas he's working constantly. I'll probably make more than him after graduation, because I work in finance and he's trying to reform the educational system which is a pretty lofty goal but doesn't pay all that well.
It's possibly he said what he said out of frustration and it's not really the way he's thinking about things, but it's also possible that this is a huge red flag for his expectations of your relationship. Either way, you have EVERY right to be upset with him.
Wow. I would tell him that I'M not willing to marry HIM until he grows up a little and realizes that just because I don't make as much money, that doesn't mean I have to be his slave. That's ridiculous. He has no right to expect you to do all of the housework if you both have full time jobs. He should be chipping in as well. ANd personally, I think it's ridiculous that he feels like he's within his rights to complain about you being messy, but he doesn't clean either - talk about hypocritical!
Have you looked into subleasing your house? That's kind of another topic, but it could definitely save you some serious money!
If you didn't work as much, and spent a great deal of time at home, I could see you doing the chores. BUT you work just as much, and pay bills, so I don't think you should have to be his maid!
Thanks for everyone's input! I'm glad I'm not just being over sensitive (because I can be alot of times!) I honestly don't think he realizes HOW what he said came out, because he isn't a bad person (honestly he's not!)... We had been drinking when this came up, so his words might not have been EXACTLY what he meant... He really helps me out financially alot (I very rarely have to buy food, if I need something he'll gladly buy it for me etc.) but he does belittle my job a little saying it's easy, I don't do much and I get paid to play with animals, and he says he busts his ass to pay for the house... Which yes, lately he's been busting his ass, but I do too.. And before this remodel, he didn't really work very hard.
Hopefully I'll get to sit down and talk to him tonight about EXACTLY what he wants so we can be on the same page... Going and living at my rental house isn't really an option--I rent it with 2 other people (which is why getting out of the lease isn't easy since I would screw over two people)--and one of our friends is helping me pay some of the rent/bills renting out my room (he isn't able to pay all of it quite yet). But if I had to I could easily move back in... It's just not what I want to do...
I will definitely be picking up after myself now, and I'll do laundry more often (since I've always done the laundry before) but I'm not going to put up his clothes anymore or pick up his dishes... and do some of the light cleaning (vacuuming and sweeping) and if that isn't enough then I'm not going to live up to his "expectations"... Because if I'm not going to do it when we're married then I'm definitely not doing it now.
Thanks for everyone's input!
ps. I fixed the poll, my bad!
I'd move out yesterday. I won't advise you to break up with him because you say he is not usually like this and everyone is entiteled to saying something utterly stupid occasionally but I would still move out. That didn't come out of no where and that isn't an acceptable way to think and something that deep isn't going to change with a conversation so I'd move out.
To me it sounds like there might have been a very good reason why his ex wife was a bitch.
That he doesn't respect your work is a huge issue. That he doesn't respect you enough to pretend that he respects your work is also an issue.
It is super risky to be financially dependant on anyone, yes even a husband (alimony does not go as far as you think). But entering into marriage you kind of assume that it's okay to be dependant on each other occasionally or even long term depending on the circumstances. Therefore it's important that the person you are marrying is someone you can trust enough to be dependant on them. He is not someone you can trust. He will hurt you emotionally and over a longer period of time do great damage to your self esteem if he supports you in any way.
I would strongly advise you not to marry him. Date him sure but not marry.
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