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So my POV on this probably isn't traditional, but this is the 21st century! I don't like the idea of a guy hiding his proposal timeline/surprising their gf with a proposal. When making a legally binding, life-long decision, I think both parties should be equally involved. It just seems weird and controlling to me that a guy wouldn't be open about his intentions/women would shy away from these conversations. I knew when my FI had the ring and I knew the week he'd propose because we'd talked extensively about marriage. The actual proposal still surprised me because I didn't know where or when it would happen exactly. Do you think the gf and bf should have equal say or is it all on the guy?
I think the couple should have had enough conversations for the guy to be confident the woman will say yes when he asks.
I think it is ok to not let on as to when he has the ring and when he's going to propose. I think that vague/larger time frames are good to have, but it's nice to have a bit of the surprise component on exact timing and method.
I think there has to be discussions along the way about what each person is looking for and when there are actual expectations. I told FI I wanted a spring 2013 wedding, and he agreed. So we were both on the same page, and we had had many conversations about marriage and being together forever. So I guess we did have equal say in the decision, even though the entire proposal was a surprise to me and I had no idea he had the ring!
Generally, I agree with you. It DOES seem kinda unfair that they guy gets all the "say" in the proposal department, traditionally speaking. I thought that way even as a little girl. I much prefer to be on the same page reguarding marriage, and to openly discuss intentions, that way one partner doesn't feel strung along, anxious, or clueless. It also helps avoid being in a dead-end relationship where one partner wants marriage (or kids, whatever) and the other does not. Get your intentions out on the table. Altho I'm sure the dynamic isn't the same across the board- some women probably LOVED that element of surprise when their man got down on one knee. Personally, I want to be in the know.
If I were a guy I would not propose unless there had been talk of us being together forever LOL It must be scary to just propose off the cuff!
My FI and I had spoken about being together longterm for a number of reasons, mainly because he was going to be deployed so we talked about his return home and because I have a child from a previous relationship and I didn't want her getting attached if we were not going to be long term. (he had met her as "friends" to make sure they vibed well, and so I could see how she felt around him before he was making regular apearances in her life) After those discussions, we pretty much knew we would be together forever, and planned on getting engaged and being married within the next 3 years, but I was TOTALLY oblivious as to when he bought my ring and when he was going to propose.
I like the idea of a traditional surprise, but not to the extent of not even seeing it coming!
Personally, I am traditional in that sense (but also a sneeky, sneeky person!) My FI is CONVINCED that he suprised me for our big day, but in reality I knew he had the ring and he even let it slip when he was proposing by making a comment that he thought was offhand (but I knew!).
I love the secrecy of the proposal. I think the choice and options come when saying "yes" or "no". I also think the woman has a right to propose as well.
I didn't know I was getting a proposal, shoot, I was totally prepared for DH never to marry again after his divorce. I would hope that that the guy would have had enough conversations with the gal that he would already know they are on the same page, and that doesn't necessarily mean having a direct "marriage" conversation. I would also think that couples that really believe they should discuss it will because I, again, would hope that they would be on the same page about how to approach major life issues. In the end, both parties are involved, she can always say No.
I just think it's unfair to both parties if they're not on the same page with their expectations. And I think women should have more say in the matter than just being able to say no!
@redheadem: you have to remember that those are your life expectations and not everyone will share those.
I agree with OP. I think I would be pissed if we had not come to this as an agreement together.
@redheadem: I agree with you -- this is probably the biggest decision of your life, and yet it's got to be sprung on you in some sort of surprising and dramatic fashion? It just doesn't make sense to me, intellectually, for the reasons you've said. But if you want the whole romantic fantasy, wel...that's a different story!
I just thought it was a given that as a relationship progressed the topic of marriage would be brought up as things became very serious between the two people. I don't see a man asking for a womans hand in marriage as taking the power away from the woman, on the contrary, the woman seems to have all the power to dictate whether or not the marriage will happen lol
I totally agree with you. It actually really pissed me off that my boyfriend was like "Yes, I want to marry you. A proposal will happen. Just let me do it on my own time." I was like "No! That is ridiculous! You just said you want to marry me, so let's be engaged and we'll plan a wedding!" Our relationship is totally 50/50 on everything else and so it didn't sit right with me that for this one thing, I was supposed to wait around. He really wanted to propose though so I sucked it up as best I could cause I just love him to bits. The little bastard. Haha.
My rule of thumb for propsoals is the same as a lawyer--Don't ask a question unless you already know the answer.
If a guy is at all unsure about the answer he's going to get, then he shouldn't ask and more discussion needs to take place.
I'm all for fun surprises if that's your thing, but I agree that in this day, shot in the dark type of proposals are a tad insulting. Though I'm sure many people don't feel that way.
I knew my DH was going to propose sometime. He was acting strange the day he did it and by the time it actual happened my answer came out as "of course!", lol. Kind of like a 'Get it over with already and stop torturing yourself' :D
I'll be honest, my husbands proposal to me was a surprise and I'm glad I didn't know anything about when he'd pop the question or pick out the ring or anything. But I guess I'm just a traditional girl. That said though, we had talked about marriage and were living together, so it wasn't like he thought i'd say no.
@BrightGreen: Yeah this is the worst... If you know you want to get married, why can't you propose already?! So unfair. You can't have it both ways - wanting to get married but not engaged.
We've spoken about this so much and we even spoke about the possibility of booking the venue before we're engaged!
I know that the reason why he's not proposed yet is because he's still not saved up enough to get my ring. I also know that it will happen before I turn 26 (in September) but other than that - I have no idea how or when he'll pop the question.
I love surprises, but I'm also really bad at wanting to know what's around the corner - that's why we're in our current situation and I'm fine with that.
We're only talking about the venue because there's a chance it will already be booked by the time we get engaged and that takes the pressure off him a little to propose ASAP and gives him time to get my ring made.
I don't think a guy should propose without the girl having told him she'd like their relationship to go that way. I just think of the proposal in Miracle on 34th Street and it's heartbreaking!!
There definitely needs to be discussions to assure that everyone is on the same page but I don’t necessarily think that the girl needs to be completely in the loop. I was, I picked out my ring too, but that doesn’t mean that it works for everyone. Of nearly every couple that I know IRL, DH and I were the only ones to go this route. Everyone else was completely surprised by their engagements. I personally wouldn’t have wanted it that way since I do think that it’s something that both parties should be privy to in some way, but whatever floats their boat is a-ok with me.
I do think it’s insanity when the proposing man (or woman, in some cases) is nervous that his/her SO won’t say yes. Unless you are without a doubt certain that the person you are asking to marry you actually wants to marry you, don’t ask. Get to the point in yor relationship where it isn’t even a question and then propose. If you’re concerned he/she won’t say yes, then you’re not ready to get married.
I think that proposals shouldn't be TOTALLY random and unexspected. In the sense that, the couple should have mutally decided that that is the direction they BOTH want to be going in at their current stage in life. I do think there is something fun about not knowing exactly when, or how the proposal is going to happen. But I always see those insane videos of some guy proposing on a jumbo tron or at a major sport event, or some other REALLY public place and get regected. You just have to wonder if that was the first she had ever heard that he wanted to marry her or what.
I think it's pretty rare for a proposal to actually be a surprise in that the woman didn't expect it at all, and if she didn't she probably shouldn't accept it (at least not right away). I can't imagine a guy proposing to me without us having had serious discussions about wanting to get married and how that would play out for us.
I think there's a general consensus here that it's good to have at least discussed the future and marriage. I guess the extent of the surprise depends on your personality. I think it's a really romantic gesture though for the guy to plan a proposal. I always wanted a big romantic proposal, but when mine happened I totally knew it was coming... Being in love is just different to what I expected. We talk about just about everything and we have always been upfront about our intentions with marriage. He asked me to marry him on so many occasions before the real proposal, just in the middle of random conversations and I used to just smile and say you'll just have to wait and see what my answer is when you buy me a ring! Looking back I guess I could have just said yes and we would have been engaged so much sooner! So for a while there it felt like we were unofficially engaged. Technically the proposal was a surprise, but it still felt like we made the decision together. I don't think I would have coped being ambushed with a proposal before discussing marriage. Anyway that's my story! Not sure if it's unique or if others have had a similarexperience.
The traditional way is still what I wanted. THe life decision was made before he proposed. We both knew we were getting married, so the proposal, and ring were 100% surprise, but he had no more "SAY" in it than I did.
I disagree.
I actually dislike women knowing their timeline, pushing for an engagement, then driving theirselves crazy over waiting. It's a shame to see. A ring should not validate anyone's relationship though I understand being married is part of taking the next step - but when the time is right.
I believe a man should propose when he feels ready. If he feels that he can't yet provide for his soon to be wife and future children, then he may feel intimidated about the entire situation. I know FI feels horrible about being laid off a week after he proposed. He actually told me that he wish he was laid off before he did propose so he would have waited.
I had no clue about him proposing and I LOVED it. He caught me off-guard and it showed me that he was thinking about it without me having to mention, nag, and keep bringing it up. It was something he wanted to do on his own terms. Now that takes a man.
ETA: To each their own though. I just think women like to have a lot more say about things these days. Kind of loses the romance in it all.
I think the couple should have discussed it as something they're working to, and a general timeline. After that, it doesn't really bother me that it's in the guy's court. I know that so much of the wedding planning is done by the bride - not always, but it is in our case, and most of our vendors respond directly to me and put my name on the contracts even though we've both gone to meetings, etc - that the proposal can be something the guy has "control" (I can't think of a better word) over.
I am always mortified for those failed proposals, though, where it's so obvious that it wasn't talked out beforehand.
@MissPumpkinPie: Thats lovely that you're FI suprised you with your proposal, but remember that not all men are the same. Some men need gentle nudges towards the next step and I don't think that makes them any less of a man - just perhaps cautious.
Speaking as someone who's parents are divorced (a very messy one I might add) I feel that it is entirely a good thing that couples discuss their plans and "timelines" together and make a reasoned decision to marry rather than rushing into a marriage on a romantic whim (which may or may not stand the test of time)
Whilst the actual details of the asking may be a suprise - I think that open communication about your needs and desires as a couple can only pave the way for a solid and lasting relationship.
@Mrs Eye wannabe: We, of course, had open discussions about our relationship/future/etc. We have great communication. But nudging someone to give you what you want by a specific timeline is a bit excessive. I think if you're both understanding then there should be no nudging. Patience is a virtue (and this is coming from the most impatient person in the entire world). Just my opinion though. Everyone is different because being the same is boring.
ETA: My mother has been through so many relationships and was married twice. Both marriages ended badly. Why? Because they were scumbags. They both mentioned they wanted to be married to her, wanted everything she wanted, yet still cheated on her. It also depends on the person.
I think that both should be on the same page as far as marriage, but it should be an individual decision on how the proposal should come. If the woman wants to be involved, then she should be. BUT, she shouldn't get all crappy about not being surprised, or anything like that (which I have seen on here before, and its not fair).
We were on the same page, but I didn't wnat to get engaged for several years after the talk. We really didn't talk much about it after that, and he did everything on his own, without my knowledge. He proposed at least a year before I thought it woudl happen, so I was totally surprised!
I kind of wish I would have been a part of it, but I woudln't change it for the world
@MissPumpkinPie: I agree all relationships are different. I wasn't for a minute suggesting that you and your FI don't have good communication, I was speaking more generally.
Hope you didn't think I was having a pop at you.
For my own situation I have been with SO for 6.5 very happy years. I am having to give darling partner a slight nudge in the right direction as I honestly believe that he is very comfortable in our relationship the way it stands. He does want to get married (to me) but I think that sometimes he forgets that things take time to organise and that we are not getting any younger. Again, I stand by that I don't think this makes him any less of a man, its much the same as he nudges me to apply for things that I would think out of my depth - sometimes it takes someone you love to show you what you really want.
Thats my thoughts anyway
Here's how I see it: it's not fair for the gf to have expectations of bf that she doesn't express to him. It makes her anxious and sets up the bf to fail. It's also not fair for the bf to not share his plans with gf - either he surprises her, which puts her on the spot, or he wants to wait to propose indefinitely, which keeps her hanging on.
I think it depends on the couple, to each their own.
But in my personal view, I totally agree with you. I made sure FI knew that I didn't want the proposal to be a huge ordeal and I didn't want to be the last to know about it, because I think it should be a mutual decision. I didn't even want him to ask my dad for permission - even though I knew my dad would say yes, I didn't think my dad had anything to do with the fact that the two of us were deciding to get married.
BUT I also totally understand the flip side, and why most women want to be surprised. Just my personal preference.
I find it interesting that people find it "old fashioned" to have the proposal timeline hidden from them, while still having no problem with the traditional role of the male partner doing the proposing, or the idea that an 'official' proposal with ring/bended knee should exist at all. Isn't that a contradiction? If a person were truely against the one-sidedness of a traditional proposal, then the desired scenario would be one in which the couple spoke openly, made a descision together and nobody got down on one knee or asked anyone's (like the parents) 'permission'.
Alternatively, you could think of the proposal as the opening of the marriage discussion, which, if you are ever going to get married, HAS to happen at some point, regardless of HOW. Just because a person asks a question does not mean that the other person has to say Yes or give a definitive answer immediately, but if one person thinks of getting married first, and is the first to bring it up, they are essentially "proposing" the idea of marriage. If a person chooses to open the discussion with a ring and on one knee, or casually over a coffee, who are we to judge?
Of course, this is all irrelevant because most people want what they want, rational or not, which is the best of both worlds. I did. But I'm not saying it was rational.
Me and my Fi discussed marriage and I wanted him to propose and he gave me a 6 month timeline.....but i didnt want to know when he had the ring or when/where it was going to happen. I was totally suprised but also ready to make the commitment.
Yes, I agree that both partners should have equal say in when/if marriage happens. At the same time, I don't think this and a suprise "proposal scene" are mutually exclusive. My fiance & I decided together that we would like a spring/summer 2012 wedding. We talked about rings. We even started planning the wedding. But I still wanted the "fun" of a proposal & seeing my man on bended knee. To me, it's a fun tradition. So, he suprised me with the "proposal" which was really just symbolic at that point since we were already planning the wedding and our futures.
I think there's a huge difference between someone who pressures their partner into a timeline before they're ready, and someone who just wants to be 50% involved in the decision to become engaged. People in this thread are talking about two different things. If both partners agree that they want to get married then why in the heck does one of them automatically get control over the situation from then on just because they have a penis?
This is EXACTLY the thing I've been struggling with lately. BF and I are very honet and open and have been since day one. We know we want to get married but know we don't want to be engaged yet. We tell each other nearly every day we want to marry each other to the point where BF sometimes asks "are you proposing, can I tell my parents now?" and I always have to say "not yet!!"
At the same time, I am a girly girl, I've been engrained into the white wedding (I'm on a wedding site afterall!!) and the romantic stories and such. I want a story I can tell my mom and my friends. I want BF to surprise me, but is it a surprise knowing that we know we're getting engaged?
It's so frustrating!
FI and I have been together 7 years now and his proposal was a surprise, and I'm glad it was. We already lived together and had discussed marriage so it's not like he thought I would say no or anything, but I never pushed him or made suggestions as to getting a ring. I knew it would happen in good time and I'm not in a rush. Honestly I think "waiting" for a proposal and giving a timeline is kind of odd, and really takes the romance out of it for me.
My bf is dead set on surprising me and doing everything on his own without my input (on the ring, for instance) but I have kind of given him more input than he was hoping. We have talked about engagement extensively, even timelines. I guess I do kind of have an issue with him being in control of everything. It means I have to completely rely on and put my trust in him to make it happen, and I'm used to being the one in our relationship who makes things happen. So it's hard. But I'm trying my best. He says when I bring it up I am taking all of the romance out of it. When he put it like that I understood. At least I know he is actively working on the proposal and he's not having cold feet or second thoughts about being ready. Now I can be at ease and continue to wait for my surprise proposal :)
Haha I am obviously totally weird as I got a total out of the blue proposal and i am happy with it. We had never spoken about marriage much except I remember saying I wasn't the tyep of girl that HAD to be married or dreamt of her marriage for years. We DID have a timeline for children and we were living together before he proposed at 9 months so we knew we wanted to be together forever. Actually by getting married we have now pushed our "baby timeline" back 6-12 months.
I think I am actually happy with how it worked out I don't think I could of handled people asking us when we were getting married - or starting to wonder myself if we would - years down the track...
Honestly, I don't even give it enough thought to be offended about it or whathaveyou. I think that there are very few couples who don't ever discuss it. My FI always talked about it, and we even went ring shopping together, but I didn't know when or how. I think there is an equal say regardless of who proposes, and for girls who don't like that traditional route, they can feel free to be the ones to propose.
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