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When I was just a GF to my FI, his mother mostly ignored me. I tried to engage her conversation but she would either go silent or speak in dutch instead (yes, she is fluent in english). At the same time I didn't feel like she hated me... I just felt like I was a HS GF-- and I wasn't... I started dating him when I was 23, he was 21.
Then two years into being engaged she comes out with a bunch of reasons why she hates me. Now she isn't talking to us.
Does it get better once you are married?
Does it get better once you have kids and she is a grandmother?
Or do things only get worse?
No.
No.
Most times, yes.
Sorry, but marriage and kids don't make it better. most times, it makes it worse. Best case scenario? It stays the same. If you're REALLY REALLY lucky, it gets better, but I wouldn't advise holding your breath unless she's REALLY REALLY REAAAAALLLLY old school.
You and your FI/hubby need to discuss this together, then take it to her. :( Sorry you gotta deal with this.
As far as I know it doesn't change until she decides to stop acting so selfish.
I don't have a very good relationship with my MIL and she acts the same way as yours alot.... I've done all I know how and DH agrees... I just keep loving her regardless of how she acts and hopefully she'll have a change of heart sooner as opposed to later.
sigh.. ((hugs))
my mother is the MIL from hell and i would say no, shes judgemental, abusive and passive agressive and no, it doesnt get any better
for my family it started with my mom feeling slighted over my sisters husband behaviour at dinner one night and now its at the point that my mother hasnt spoken to her own daughter and grandsons for almost 10yrs
for me, i avoid speaking to my mom and my husband sees her once per year and he is her fav son in law (which amuses my hubby no end) - oh, she lives less than 10mins drive from all of us
@Elvis: <-- I agree. It should be shocking the day that you respond in Dutch! Not rudely just a "yea... I know what you're doing" kinda thing
I would LOVE to have an opportunity like this with the MIL.... if she did what your does. lol
My relationship with my in-laws got a lot better once we had a kid, but every situation is different. Why does she say she hates you?
I guess it depends on the woman? FMIL HATED me! When FI and I started dating, he was 22 and I was 25. He's also the youngest of 4 boys and was a bit of a Mamas boy. Our first Thanksgiving together, FI and I did all of the cooking for his family, 2 other brothers didn't help and the oldest showed up with his psycho ex just as we were almost finished. His mother sung that psycho's praises even after she went into my bag and stole my bank card and cash out of my wallet. (FMIL isn't all there but that really hurt!)
I'm not sure exactly what changed, but somewhere around the 3 year mark, I won her over. It could have been the way I treated FI, being supportive and still pushing him to get thru school. It could have been the time when he was away at school and I went by myself to visit her in the hospital. Maybe she just saw how much I loved her son.
@Elvis: & amnystik:There is no way I will ever learn Dutch. Many people have suggested this to me but she would just find another way to ignore me or be rude. Its about her having control. Learning a language is a big time commitment, I have already spent 4 years studying American Sign Language and I'm not fluent. I understand a lot of ASL but not everything. It doesn't make any sense to learn Dutch when I have NO interest in it at all and it basically makes my stomach turn. Its been used as a weapon against me and I pretty much hate the sound of it... unless FI is speaking it, because he's special :) Also, all dutch people learn english in elementry school so there are no real translating opportunties for it. And you know, I live in America. She's been in this country getting close to 30 years now. She was the one that moved not me. I didn't fall in love with my FI because he was dutch... I fell in love with him because of who he is.
@Mrs.Spring: Reasons why she hates me sound crazy.. I don't drink enough. I don't "like other cultures" I don't know what that means-- Maybe that I don't eat exotic foods. You know I don't even remember all the reasons... there were a TON but they were all trivial and stupid. She complained to FI that I was manipulating him. The only thing I know for SURE is that she doesn't want to get old, she doesn't want grandkids, and she is used to being the center of attention in the family.
Thanks for the prospective ladies! It has given me something to think about. For some reaons I just thought having kids would make her want to get to know me or be involved in our life. But it sounds like thats not going to happen.
@JaneDomani: I have to say tha not learning the language is not the reasons above... if anything learn for your future children. You should encourage your husband to teach your kids (assuming you are having them) his language. It helps EVERYONE to know another language and to learn it young, even better.
If you know the basics, and I am not talking fluently, you can help your kids and not be left out when they do know the language. And he bonus is to show your MIL that you love your husband that much to learn his cultures and mother's native language.
I personally don't think it's gonna get better. Right now, I've decided to not give a shit. I try to treat people how I'd like to be treated by realize some people are just selfish bastards! My marriage is between me and my husband, screw the rest. I'm not going to let anyone ruin what we have, period. And I'm tired of trying. If someone doesn't like you for imaginary reasons: 1) you can't make them and 2) why would you choose to like them? <-- My most recent lesson
What's with these MILs that are used to all the attention and can't help themselves but be ugly? They should make a reality TV show with them all and give prizes to the most judgmental, passive aggressive, and number one pretender!
OP, I don't blame you for not learning dutch. I've stopped over in Amsterdam enough ... it's not the prettiest language!
Honestly, for me it's gotten worse. I have just decided to cut her out of my life and stop worrying about why she does what she does to me. It's border line abusive. I'm done and over it. DH can continue whatever relationship he would like to have with her. I never stand in his way, I only ask that he not force me into any situations that make me uncomfortable and he has agreed.
@Vitsippa I agree that you don't have to like them, but they are your DH's or FI's mother so unless he agrees with you, he wants to have contact and a relationship with them. Therefore, it IS your job to be as pleasant as possible (within reason) to keep a managable relationship.
Of course that means you can bow out of parties, but you can't refuse your SO to go.
And trying to convice someone how horrible their family is, if they dont agree, is not going to be good for your own relationship.
Well the relationship that I have with my FMIL is not going great right now and it looks like it will be that way. She wont call me on the phone and uses FI as a go-between. It is the same as she is with everyone else. She is just mean. If it is not about her, she has to make it about her, but I refuse to let her treat me like she treats everyone else.
My MIL tolerates me more now, but I believe it's because she knows she better play nice if she wants to see us (mostly our daughter) more.
That does not stop her from putting her 2 cents in over everything, but we live far enough away now that it's a LOT better. We lived with them for 2 months when we were getting ready to move and it was just not working out.
I have to add that I know exactly how it feels to have a language used to exclude you. It's easier said than done to "want" to learn a language after experiencing something like that. Learning a language takes so much time and effort -- I know people that say they're learning a new langauge for fun but knowing a few phrases is completely different from actually learning a language.
I hope your MIL will come around and it doesn't get to the point of no return. But even if it does, the important thing is you and your future hubby.
It got worse for me with my ex-MIL once my son was born. It was bad before and went out of control after that. She actually was the one who encouraged my ex to move back home with her, and we broke up with my son was 7 months old.
@lefeymw: Oh I'm the one that reminds my husband to call his parents and siblings. A lot of women on here unfortunately have longer stories than our short responses. I was raised oldschool -- if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Outright rudeness still surprises me and as much as I talk myself into coming up with a quick come-back, not being rude in someone elses house always trumps trying to be "clever" in response. I have never said or done anything rude to even remotely deserve the kind of judgement and treatment I was given. And I'm patient too ... my new attitude about not giving a shit isn't after a few weeks. It's been years, thank you very much.
No one said anything about "trying to convince someone about their horrible family". Most people that have the displeasure of having to deal with something like this have worked that out for themselves. So I don't really get your response to me.
For my BFF, the child made it worse in some ways and better in others. They are forced to interact more (before she could choose not to go visit when her DH would go, or just mentally check out when she was there) so her child can spend time with g-ma, but in other ways it's better--they have something to talk about (the child).
no it just gets worse..... why do we have to marry into the family i just want FI i dont need another mother
I might be the odd one out here, but for me, when we got engaged, my FMIL suddenly became awesome and stopped butting in our business almost entirely. She's very old-fashioned and is of the mindset that engagement/marriage are the only thing that validate a relationship/validate her son as an "adult" and no longer under her wing. So the instant the ring went on my finger, she suddenly butted out of our lives (she used to be a SERIOUS helicopter parent, seriously clingy to my FI, and just all around inhibitive to our relationship) and doesn't insist on knowing FI's doings and goings every second of every day like she used to. I hope it continues this way after we're married...it should have been this way the whole relationship, we weren't children when we started dating either!
She did, however, just add us both on Facebook, so maybe she's trying to creep into our lives that way...luckily neither of us post much of interest on there so she'll be sorely disappointed if that's what she was looking for.
It's interesting that you're so adamant about not learning Dutch when one of your biggest complaints is that she speaks it and you don't understand. It's almost like language is central the power struggle between you, and not just on her part. Like you say, learning a language is har, and I wonder if she doesn't switch to Dutch because she's more comfortable in it. Just living in America doesn't come with the obligation that you speak English all the time for the comfort of those around you. Being an immmigrant is hard, in so many ways, and begrudging her the opportunity to speak her native language when she's with other people that also speak it is kind of petty; it seems like you're the one excluding yourself by refusing to learn a language that's part of your FI's heritage and the cultural heritage of your future children.
I just want to jump in and say that I like the sound of Dutch and I DO think it's a pretty language. It's definitely not an easy one to learn, but I think you could say that of a LOT of languages out there. I want to learn Dutch for the reasons that some others have listed in here:
Things are not going to get better. Just have this understanding that they WILL get worse. If by a long shot, (and I do mean, a LONG shot), they get better, than that's great! But I'd say you need to be prepared for the worst.
My MIL is VERY controlling and aggressive. She also LOVES to show off to her side of the family. So she will stop at NOTHING to come out as the 'winner' in anything she sets her mind to. (Which is always something negative.)
My FI understands and dislikes his mom very much. None of her kids have any real attachment to her as she did leave them when they were young. That was largely their father's fault too but it's hard if your mom just leaves home without you forever. So they all never really bonded. (Thank GOD for that!) Because FI does only wants MINIMAL contact wtih her. And I would like to keep it that way.
Just keep minimal contact with her. Always 'be busy' with something or other if she ever calls. She will start calling less n' less and coming over hardly ever. <-- That is the SANEST thing you can do for your relationship!!!!
My mom's always taught me that if someone already doesn't like you then chances are they will never like you unless they change their own mind about you. You have NOTHING to justify if all you've done is be good and kind to that person. There is no sense in being nice to someone who is just going to continuously keep kicking you. Stand up for yourself the first time and stand STRONG. That will be enough to keep all the b.s. away for the rest of your life.
I really don't want to derail what I was trying to post here with whether or not I will learn dutch. I want to know if things will get better after marriage / kids, that is the purpose of this post. However maybe I should have linked my past post that goes into a lot more of the problems I have with my FMIL regarding her dutchiness. Its a long vent. I would encourage you to read my comments to the vent as well before commenting yourself *on that thread* please. http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/mil-problems
It is helpful for me to just get some other bees perspective of how the MIL does or doesn't change after marriage. And to be honest I'm feeling a lot less pressure to have kids right away after I get married after reading all these responses I'm a big family person and I think it sucks that the relationship with his mother is poor. I thought she would see our relationship as legimate or important if we had children... but its sounding like she probably won't chage. If thats the case its easier for me to let go and have some closure. Which is really what I need so I don't keep worrying about trying to repair something that she doesn't want fixed. :/
I am not married yet but in the case of my girlfriends that are.. No it really doesnt get better.. Feelings are feelings and you may need to do a lot to work on your relationship with her.. Kids or no kids marriage or no marriage.. That stuff doesnt matter its what your going to put into the relationship with her. The other things dont magically change your relationship.
I've been wondering the same thing- will it get better after marriage and kids. Truthfully, I don't think it will. I am worried how my FMIL will be around me and my children. I am just dreading having to listen to her give me parenting advice or how I should be raising my kids, or trying to take over and not letting me be a mom. She's made comments to me about how she doesn't want to be a grandmother anymore (she is a grandmother of 6 kids) and that she thinks we should not have kids because we will be poor and will have to worry about learning disabilities. She said this because her and my FIL take care of the grandchildren. 2 of the grandchildren have behavioral and learning issues and her two daughters, FI's sisters, are stuggling financially so they can't afford a babysitter or daycare. Regardless of the situation, who says that!
My FMIL already looks at me like a daughtrer but I worked to get there. Everyone speaks Greek, it's just how it is. I am in the process of learning Greek, it shows I care, I am willing to go the extra mile and that I want my future children to be fluent and do not plan on leaving it on my FH's shoulders.
Relationships are a two way street and YES your FMIL sounds like a nightmare but if you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got. In other words if you just complain or sulk or tell your FH to fix it...it will never be fixed, at best she'll put up with you for a short time to pacify her son.
I speak from experience I have bit my tongue, held my hot temper, gone above and beyone (converting, learning a new language, family recipes). Right now you are understandably upset but that upset has you in a negative mind frame, where in you want a quick solution i.e. marriage, baby. Not how life works and if you can't be bothered to learn another language and show how much you want to be apart of the family then why should she try?
She is the matriarch, just like when you have kids and they grow up you are the matriarch. Bare in mind we all want to think we'll be nicey nice to whoever our kids pick, but that is not realistic, I know my fiance and I have (already) certain expectation of what we expect in a DIL or SIL when our kids grow up.
Rise to the challenge, worrying and stressing are like a rocking chair....gives you something to do but it DOESN"T get you anywhere.
I really am sorry the relationship isn't good but I know it can be fixed but it won't unless you give 110%, rise to the challenge. If you want to be "put up with" or "endured begrudgingly" then keep on believing that loving her son and having kids is enough. If you want a close family and be loved and valued then work for it.
It's not a matter of luck, I am marrying the only son (only child), the heir, the legacy, the family prince, LOL. I'd have been a fool to think being worthy in their eyes would be easy or happen by luck.
Sorry, I think I misunderstood the intent of your original post. I think having kids before you're ready for the sole purpose of trying to improve your relationship with your MIL is a terrible idea. (Just like having a baby to "save" a marriage is a terrible idea.)
I did read your other MIL post just now. It seems like you're both strong women who are used to being in control and now you've got your horns locked. You've decided that if you're going to be in her family, she needs to speak English, and she's decided that if you're going to be in her family, you need to speak Dutch, and between the two of you, your tug-of-war is tearing up your future family.
It does sound like maybe she's tried to reach out to you, though; maybe the language barrier is much more of an issue than you realize? From experience, there's a huge emotional separation in using a non-native language and it's easy to say something that may seem rude or insensitive or even mean to a native speaker without intending it that way, no matter how fluent you might appear. She's clearly much more comfortable with Dutch. Yes, learning a language is hard and a long term commitment if you want to be fluent, but it just seems weird to me that you say how important family is to you, and you talk about how you want a better relationship with her, to the point where you were considering having a baby as a means of improving it, so I'm not sure why you absolutely refuse to consider learning her native language, especially when it seems like that's something very important to her.
Best of luck to you, I hope you work it out. :)
@Elvis: I want kids. I wouldn't be having them only to make her happy... as FMIL already said she doesn't want me to have kids because she has dogs. Yes, she told her mother that, in front of FI and me. I don't need to have kids because she owns dogs. :\ But anyway, I thought me having kids would put her in more of a family mindset. She never calls me & she never emails me. She never once asked to go out with just me. She sometimes refuses to go out with us when her husband goes out.
I asked her to go wedding dress shopping... and she did go... but she complained the entire time about why my FI couldn't come, why couldn't he see the dress, why couldn't we get back earlier so she could see him (we were staying several days a few hours alone with me was not a big thing to ask for), why do we have to do more than a courthouse wedding and married in the park? I get that she was nervous going shopping with me. I get that speaking in dutch is more comfortable for her. I've tried to be very understanding of this. I've tried to slowly have her come around to including me and being nice about being excluded from the majority of conversations.
But FMIL hasn't done ONE thing to make me more comfortable. I've gone out of my way to include her. I've made sure FI calls her more. I've learned some dutch cooking, made birthday cakes for her (she complained about cakes making her fat :\). I made sure she got holiday time with my FI when he couldn't care less. I try to talk to her about subjects she likes and I try to give her opportunties to get to know my family too-- because we are merging our two families. She doesn't see it that way.. she keeps telling me if I want to be part of "HER family" then I have to eat raw fish (yes uncooked nasty could make me ill fish) and other things I find offensive.
So far she has complained that I went to go to Holland to meet FI grandmothers after FFIL offered to use fruqent flyer miles for us (we didn't ask, we couldn't afford to go on our own, I was seriously nervous about going but I went anyway because it was important). Told FI she doesn't have to speak english because "I'm quiet anyway". She complains that I don't drink when she knows there are alcholics in my family line and I'm not looking to repeat that mistake. I let her drink and drive with me in the car-- not far, but not something I normally or EVER allow. I've tried to keep the peace. She demanded to know why my father died when I was three, then told me I should be afraid to have children because high blood pressue would kill all of them. She fed me an avancado with vinegar in it because FI told her I like guacamole-- I ate it to be nice, it was so gross. Every time we are alone in a room she leaves it right away. She interrupts people speaking in english so they switch to dutch. She has done NOTHING to be nice to me or make me feel comfortable.
I am NOT dutch. I'm NOT going to pretend to be. I'm going to be a PA mom, thats sort of country, blue collar values, likes to dance and cook. That's me and I'm okay with who I am even if she's not.
She told me I'm NOT northern anymore because I've lived in the south 6 years (she's lived in the south close to thirty years but somehow she still considers herself dutch). I'm going to bring to the table MY family values. My FI is going to bring his mix of dutch and southern america. Thats great. We don't have to be the same person. His culture is NOT more important than mine just because he speaks a second language. I don't expect him to learn every little cultural part of my childhood and somehow become it. He doesn't expect me to be dutch. He COULD HAVE chosen to go to Holland for college or joined a Dutch club and found a dutch speaking woman... it was his personal decision to chase after little ole me (which I am quite happy about!). If the speaking dutch was super important to him I wouldn't BE the girl for him. I am though. Speaking dutch is super important to his mom NOT him (I THINK, I can't be sure because she never talks to me about it. She just uses it as a tool to ignore me. I am ASSUMING she wants me to learn dutch and use it as a home language but maybe she doesn't want her son to ever get married-- I don't know what she won't tell me!) And his new life with me and our kids is going to be different from his mother's. Its not my fault if she can't deal with that.
@Elvis: I also want to add that FI brother's GF is learning Dutch. His mom doesn't help or encourage her learn the language. FMIL also ignores brother's GF and frequently either speeds up her dutch or uses complex words so that she can't follow the conversation. Its not an accident. Granted FFMIL likes brother's GF more than me... but GF also isn't engaged and FMIL made sure she doesn't want children. Brother's GF has many of the same complaints about his mom being rude as I do. Brother's GF lives & works in holland and is learning dutch... and she still feels left out of most family events. She's in the room just no one talks to her. :( So I really feel like this is much bigger than just learn the language. I really don't feel like that would fix anything to be honest.
Sorry for the long ramble that is off topic. Clearly I'm bottling a lot of stuff because FMIL won't have an honest talk with me about anything.
It sounds like you made up your mind and for your sake I hope it all works out. I doesn't seem as though family is all that important to you, I could be wrong after all I don't know you, all I have to base my assessment on is what I see you write.
I THINK you are trying to say you want to be your own person and retain your culture and be a PA mom, but your wording is coming across as hostile. It may not be your intention (and I am sure it is not) but the way you are talking it sounds like you couldn't give 2 figs about speaking Dutch or your kids speaking Dutch or embracing their rich cultural and ethnic heritage.
Please remember that even though you can do what you want and have a "totally different family" than FI's, things may not go your way or be as peachy as you expect. Many things like religion and ethnic background and tradition become 100 times more important when kids come in to the picture.
I know men who moved out of their parents house, stopped going to church, dated and married a girl of a different ethnicity BUT once married they wanted their wife to cook the food they(the husband ) grew up with, when kids came in to the picture they taught their kids a second language, wanted to go to church with the kids and became very big on tradition. All of these men married women who like you said "if he wanted a ____ speaking girl he could have married one, our family will be different, he is not THAT religious"
I am happy you have made peace with your choices just try to think outside the box and consider all angles. I have known many men (Italian and Greek) who married women who thought like you, only to have a rude awakening when they discovered marriage and then children makes ppl cling to heritage, religion and tradition.
That's all. Your choice, just want you to have as much info as possible for your sake.
@EncoreBridetoBe: I've been really upset about the whole situation for 4 years. I was determined to smile and nod and basically kill with kindness. I guess I can't do that forever because everyone has a breaking point. I'm really angry about the whole thing. But I really don't feel like changing who I am is the answer-- and that's what it feels like she wants me to do (again assumptions since she is very passive aggressive and not forthcoming with her wants! I totally admit I could be wrong about what she wants from me as a DIL but she won't tell me! FI has asked what her expectations for his future were (before engaged) and she said "be happy". She would not talk to him about the subject no matter how much he tried. )
FI is an Atheist and his mother left the catholic church. He doesn't know what she considers herself as religiously-- if that gives you any idea of how much they don't talk.
As far as everything else goes, he grew up in America. So much of what he does is Southern American... The European/family influence is that he uses silverwear differently, he speaks another language and he eats things that I just can't stomach. He may very well try to feed those things to our kids.. and if they eat them great, if not, he's used to cooking for me so he'll manage. Our kids probably will be really confused about how to hold silverwear since both of us do it different. And he is going to teach them a few words in dutch. I didn't mention it but I do know *a little* dutch mostly because he uses it for the dog. But I don't think telling his mom to "Don't bite, Shut-up, Go to bed!" is going to earn me any brownie points, ha,ha.
Again I'm so sorry it really is just heartbreaking to me, I am a cheerleader for making it work where family is concerned.
LOL, too true, don't bite, shut up and go to bed are probably not a good way to "bond"
Marriage probably won’t change anything. My MIL does the same thing where she speaks Spanish (which I don’t understand much) to my husband when it is just the 3 of us. My MIL speaks perfectly fluent English and I’ve always found it rude. She did this when she was my FMIL and still does it now.
@JaneDomani: I get you. Maybe because I know it feels, I never interpreted that you ever implied you wanted kids for the sake of appeasing your FMIL, or any of the other things some have commented about. I'm actually totally floored by some of the responses. Like I said, maybe it's because your post could be something I would write -- it's literally something I can write!
I just want to say thank you for sharing a bit of your life, because of it, I know I'm not the only one dealing with this.
As for asking the question about if it'll get better once you're married and when you have babies --- what's so wrong with wondering this? A lot of couples eventually want children and this is a wedding site! I just don't get how some responses are so quick to jump to the closest negative conclusion. I just don't get it.
@EncoreBridetoBe: I'm sorry, but I have to say this. I don't think it's right for you to say, "It doesn't seem as though family is all that important to you." I know you claim it's to help, but can you really summarize people so quickly?
You say you've dealt with a difficult MIL as well, why not offer some sensitivity?
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