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You and I are in a VERY similer situation, okqb. FI and I have talked a lot about his parent's smoking and he and I have come to the conclusion that we will not be able to go into his parents house when we have children. They are chain smokers and their house is very dirty as a result. I do not feel comfortable staying there and I could not subject a small child to that. As of now, our plan is to visit them, but get a hotel room once we have kids. We can visit and do day trips, but we will not bring our children into a house with that much smoke/ash in the air/furnature/floors/etc. It might take some time for your FI to understand, but not entering the house does not have to mean not visiting. It's tough. Keep the communication open between the two of your. Good luck :)
I am also in a similar situation - my husband's stepfather cannot walk into the house without a cigarette already lit. We never stay inside their house more than a couple of minutes, otherwise we reak of smoke. (And of course inhale deadly, unnecessary chemicals).
Luckily we both agree that we don't want to subject our kids to this. Our kids will not visit Grandma at her house, she will have to come visit. He has actually already expressed this concern to her. However, his stepfather is currently trying to quit smoking (he's on the smoking cessation pill)....so we'll see how that goes. But the smell will always linger...
I feel the exact same way! I won't be taking my kids to my mother's house if they continue to smoke inside. If home visits are a priority for them, they'll change their habits. There can be plenty of reasons to restrict where you take your children, and as long as you're not being crazy or selfish about them, i think you are fine. Smoke inhalation is a serious thing. not to mention that babies put everything in their mouths, and smokers have ashes fly around, get smoke dander on everything in the house, etc. They can choose to live however they want, and so can you, even if that includes censoring where you take your own children.
My parents smoke and I would have zero issue bringing this up with them. AS it is, i'm asthmatic and I finally got them to stop smoking in the house. Now my mom is having back surery and has to quit anyways, so they're making that transition. Even though I don't like them smoking, I really don't like it when people stare at them and mad-dog them like they're really bad people for it! That's the worst. And so awkward!
When the time comes, I think that's a conversation you will have to have with them. They can smoke--outside, but not near your children. See if you can encourage them to quit smoking IN the house and IN the car (my parents do neither now that they saw what it did to their walls/furniture) at least for their grandchildren's sake. You'd be surprised what people give up for their grandkids. But i also know it was really tough for my parents to get it...they didn't see how smoke bothered me so much because, well, they're used to it. When I'd come home from college, I'd stay in my room most of the day because I could barely stand the living room. I'd have to wash every single piece of clothing I brought into their home.
I wouldn't really bring up the conversation now unless it's provoked....like, you're there in the house or something and you can comment offhand to your FI, "man i really hope your parents cut back by the time we have kids" and if he invokes conversation, discuss it. If not, bring it up later. But definitely something to put your foot down about. It's YOU raising YOUR children. That's above and beyond what they do in their own house.
Oh PS my mom has been on Chantix and it has REALLY helped her.
I promise the smell does eventually go away, lol. But be prepared for some brutal home cleaning =]. Wiping down walls, carpet cleanngs, etc. But you know what, even a smoker will get tired of the way their house smells if they don't continue to smoke inside.
I think your feelings are completely reasonable, and I know that it might be hard to talk to the ILs about it, but when it's your kids, you just gotta do what ya gotta do.
Your ILs are smart enough to know that second hand smoke is dangerous, and since YOU will be/are the mother, you have the right to ask them not to smoke in front of the children.
Whether or not you guys are talking about children yet, I'd bring it up with your husband so he knows how you feel, and if he feels a little uneasy about bringing it up with him, at least it'll give him time to prepare for that day!
You don't have to lecture them about not smoking, but they of all people should know that grandparents have a huge impact on children, and you simply don't want your children to see them set an unhealthy example. Trust me, they'll love your kids so much that they'll want to protect them from seeing their bad habits.
@ejs - i always would hole myself up in my room for my entire life - i feel your pain! it's nice having my own house now and though i was delighted for my mother's visit this past weekend I did enjoy enforcing my OWN house rules..
- the door is that way, go about 10-20 paces away, and then you can smoke. The rain should let up soon! ;) JK.. sorta
I agree with @Rosie in saying keep the communication open between you & DH when you come to this part of your life, I'm sure he'll understand your concern.
I think your concern is 100% justified. I wouldn't want my (future) children to be in a smokefilled house even if it is to visit, it can irritate their sinus' (leading to sinus infections), hurt their eyes (if the smoke is heavy enough) and overall it just makes you smell bad. I would just suggest they come to visit you, or have DH express his concern that you really don't want your children exposed to the harmful toxins in 2nd handsmoke. I would think grandparents would understand that!
Melissa Begins - I love it!! I am always getting on to my FMIL about smoking. Luckily they only do it outside and try to stay away from the kids with it. I think its all about laying down the ground rules when it comes to your kids. I know beyond just smoking in the house, I am still going to have a hard time letting my IL's hold my newborn child when their clothes and hands reak of smoke.
@ everyone - Thanks for all the advice and comments. I will definately have to have this conversation with hubby when the time comes. Currently, whenever we go to visit them, they try to smoke less around me because he has mentioned to them that it's really hard for me to be around. So since it's not something new to them, I'm hoping that will make communication a little easier when the topic of children arises.
Also, we don't allow smoking in our house. I don't know that it's a rule that's ever been verbally stated to them, but they know we're not smokers so they've never tried to light up INSIDE the house. They go out on the porch to smoke and I'm very grateful because I like my home to smell good, and bath and body works doesn't sell 'cigarette' scented wall flowers for a reason.
I don't have any advice to talk to them about it but just wanted to let you all know about how much of a pain it was for my dad to get the smoke smell out of his new house. They had to clean all the vents, replace all the flooring, primer the walls multiple times, and replace all the outlet covers. It takes a lot to get that stale smoke smell out.
I used to be a smoker, but would never have done it in the house or in any enclosed space really. I think they will understand when you explain that you are hoping that they can start smoking outdoors for the good ofthe grandchildren. I think trying to get them to quit is likely a waste of time, but you can persuade them to look at the way they smoke differently.
As long as you don't come across as judgemental, I don't see why it should be a problem, but as others have stated, it might be best to wait until you are pregnant or at least TTC.
I'm happy I'm not the only one thinking "pre-maturly" about this issue! My situation is a little different though, FFIL doesn't smoke inside, and FMIL is OCD clean freak so their house is fine. His father smokes a LOT, and he also smokes filterless cigs... As a result, he REAKS of smoke. I can smell him in church when he's a few people away. His car is horrible, the roof is black. The other day, he had a smoke and then left with us to check out some appliances for our new home. When we got 10 min. down the road he had to have another smoke before coming in. Finished that, we got in the car... 10 min. later he had another smoke at the next store! The co-founder of his company even had lung cancer... they apparently quit for a bit, but he's smoking a storm now. It's gotten so much worse than when we first started dating. I couldn't tell he smoked before...
My fear, is literally not him smoking around the one day baby.... but just even holding the baby on his chest, etc... with all that on him. Does anyone else worry about that? I'm literally going to prob. have mini panic attacks.... one day.
Couple that with the fact that his mom is really frail and I'm afraid if she was watching the one day toddler... if they fell and got hurt, etc... she couldn't pick them up and carry them. I'm talking past 20 lbs would be really hard...
They're the best, just like the OP they've always been so accepting of me. MUCH more so than my parents were of FI... but with my family half the country away, and FIL's that I'm nervous of for one day child watching... I'm really nervous... The smoke is one thing, but I can't really bring up his mom's frailty :-(
@ KLP - It's totally ok to think about stuff like that. I'm a worry-wart, and I'm always thinking worse-case-scenario (something that bugs my husband to no end). It's not the best way to live, but I haven't yet found the "off" switch for it.
The fact of the matter is, children are a BIG deal, and quite frankly it scares me to death to think about having them! I know I will be a great parent, but I also recognize that I will have to be able to balance positive thoughts WITH my worrisome nature, in order to give my child a healthy happy and productive life. There is a limit to what you can shelter a child from, and I totally recognize that. Hubby is really good at balancing ME, so I think when we finally do have kids, he will be a wonderful and very integral part of their upbringing.
As far as your FMIL's frailty, I don't really see a feasible way to bring that up either. It's a valid concern IMO because you definately wouldn't want her falling with your child, but how to make it come across the way you want it to? That's another story.. I DO think about things like that though. My mom is older (I was a late baby) and hubby's parents aren't far behind (I'm almost 30 & he's 35, so yeah, our parents aren't spring chickens) and by the time we have kids (probably in 2 -3 years, unless it's God's will for sooner!) they will be even more frail. Aging parents is a very hard thing to think about, and the last thing an older person needs is a potential tripping hazard or to throw their back out carrying a small child. Not to mention the safety risk to the child!
My husband and I have already discussed this. Fortunately his parents don't smoke inside but they do smoke in the car. Granted, it's the best smelling smoker vehicle that I've ever been in, but it still stinks. I told J straight up that I don't want our future kids to ride in the car with his parents if they're going to smoke. They might already refrain when J's neices are in the car but I'm not sure. I think he's mentioned it to them before (and the fact that we think they give their grandkids too much sugar and junkfood and that that's not going to fly with our kids) but I'm not sure how seriously they took it. I remember with the junk food/sugar conversation his mom said, "but that's what grandparents do!" Yeah, that's fine when you see them a couple times a year, not so much when it's a couple times a week. Gah! Sorry, getting sidetracked.
Anyways, I think it's perfectly within your rights to lay down the law. They're welcome to spend as much time with the grandkids as they like so long as there's no smoking involved.
I'm so glad I don't have this problem. I remember how bad my grandparents houses's reeked of smoke. I would ask them not to smoke indoors around your future children.
Agree on the house issue but wouldn't think that a smoker briefly holding a child would be a problem. Smoke is really an issue only when it comes to 'packs' a year. If the inhalation of smoke is below a certain amount it is really negligible so I wouldn't worry about brief skin contact. Of course that's me and every mother has to do what feels right to her. I might also feel differently if this was a main caregiver or someone who carried the child a lot.
On the frail FMIL I actually think this is an easy one. I'd advise you to not leave the child alone with her, ever. Not for the child's benefit/safety but for hers. I know that my grandparents though not so old get exhausted whenever their great grandchild visits and that's not even them babysiting him alone or anything but just a visit has a negative impact on their health. Looking after a baby or toddler is really hard work and elderly people IMO should not have to do it if there is any other choice. So I'd take the child to visit but not rely on them for babysiting services.
This was a big issue with me when my daughter was born and her grandparents were smokers. I just told my current SO ("the co-parent") that I really didnt want our daughter around that and that he needed to explain to his parents that it was nothing against them and we love them but we just wouldn't be bringing our daughter around very often due to the cig smoke. They would come over very often since they werent allowed to smoke in our house and eventually started smoking on their backporch, which is enclosed but closed off from the rest of the house and actually started liking that they did that because they noticed the house was staying cleaner longer (smoke does wretched things to a persons house). I know it sounds like I kind of got off easy on that one but trust me it was much more difficult that it sounds. I hated feeling like the bad guy around his parents but I valued my daughters health more, especially when she was an infant bc they are so susceptible to things.
This is going to be an issue big time for me. I disagree with a pp that stated inhalation of smoke is not an issue if its a minimum, second and even now third hand smoke is an issue! My MIL is a chain smoker and it has been an issue in her family but she is not stopping. I have 2 nephews and a neice, 12, 9 and 3 and she smokes around them all the time. I really do not know how my SIL feels about it but for me no. I can not control her being around my future babies and I will want them at their house but I dont know how to approach it because she does smoke in her own home which astonishes me, smokes in the car and I really do not want her to do either around my children when they are with them. My DH agrees, his mom can be quite difficult at times and gets really defensive about this issue. Maybe there will be something in a baby book I will read one day that will help me with this! LOL! It is going to be so much more than being up front and having a conversation with her. I know her too well. This just may cause a war :) BC at the same time I will also tell her it is not ok to fill my kid up on pop and candy at the age 1-3 that she does with my nephew. Ouy.
I totally understand how you feel, I have hated smoking since I could talk and won't want to subject my children to it either. I think everyone has offered good advice, but I just want to offer this: my grandfather was a lifelong cigar smoker (smoked many every day), but by the time I was five, he had quit. Completely. He really knew it wasn't fair to endanger my health and he wanted to spend a lot of time with me, so he figured the only way to deal with the conundrum was to quit. I didn't really understand the magnitude of that back then, but now I'm really moved by it. Assuming your in-laws are intelligent, sensitive people, they might just be moved to do the same...you never know.
Let me start off by telling you what position I am coming from. I am a non-smoker and always have been. My mother on the other hand is a chain smoker and has been my entire life.
Try for small, attainable outcomes rather than dreaming about them quitting all together. I've been most successful with my mother when I ask her to smoke outside and wash her hands/brush her teeth. Telling her what to do in her own home is out of the question, but polite requests in public areas (the car, hotels, restaurants) are usually well received. Also, at my house I make the rules and she is fine with that.
Smokers know that what they are doing is bad for their health. But, addiction is a disease and changing the habits of a smoker is difficult. Bottom line- no amount of convincing from us will help. It has to be their choice and their choice alone to quit or change their habits.
You can set the parameters under which they interact with your kids, but make sure those are attainable for your in-laws as well and try to keep your requests reasonable. This will keep them in your life and in your kids' lives as well, which is the most important piece.
I don't think their is any reason to bring it up with dh right now, but when the time comes I do not think it's unreasonable for you to not want your children in that environment. It's common knowledge that smoking is not only bad for the smoker, but for everyone around the smoker aswell. When the time comes, I would ask them if they can take there smoking outside when you visit. If they give you a hard time, tell them that they will have to visit you at your house if they want to have visits. As a parent you have to speak for you children.
A smoker should *know* better than to smoke around a child. If they're reasonable people, I'm sure they'll sacrifice smoking in there home to see there grandchildren! :-)
My Dad has smoked my entire life. Luckily he has been trying to quit in recent years. He also only smokes outside now.
my dad has been a smoker all my life.
i was the kid that used to get in trouble, because i would hide his cigarettes or try to flush them down the toilet.
with that being said, he's cut down a lot since my younger years... but i still dont think he'll ever quit. the upside is that he never smokes indoors. even in the freezing of all freezing times in michigan, he always goes outside. he used to smoke in the car on long family roadtrips and i hated that...
i'm def not concerned about telling them no smoke around our future babies. i dont even think id have to mention it.
i think when the time comes, you should def talk to your fi and your fil's and let thme know... even if they are heavy smokers, i'm sure there isn't a thing they wouldn't do for their grandbabies!
Your definatly not the first or last to worry about this. We don't have children yet; we're still planning our wedding but like you said; babies can come anytime your not ready. Even though we havn't personally delt with it; FI side of the family has. His dad has always been a chain smoker as well as his mom. (they are divorced) they both smoke inside their homes. Once FI sister got pregnant she told both her parents that while she was pregnant and from then on; they would have to come to her home to visit. She told them that she would not be coming around the smoke & would definatly not be bringing the baby when it was born. She wasn't rude; she didn't ask them to quit or change their ways. She just point blank told them she wouldn't do it. It was kind of strange in a way because it was like a drop of a hat; the day our Nephew was born; FI dad quit smoking. His dad just decided he wanted to live longer and wanted to be healthy to see his grandchild grow up. He has since started smoking again; but NOT in the house & not near as much as he use to. Becoming a grandpa has really changed his outlook & he's much happier and actually healthier since he won't smoke in the house; he smokes much less. I guess that could be a good way to go about it. You have a right to make that choice & no one can hold that against you. Even if your FI doesn't agree at first; he will definatly know deep down that it is the right decision for your children & you.
As for FI mom; she still smokes in her house & FI sister still doesn't bring the baby around. But that's her choice. She obviously doesn't care. But you know what; your Future In Laws sound like they care about you and your FI very much. Usually when people really care about their family; they are willing to make small sacrefices like FI dad did.
Can you just invite them over to your house? FFIL will presumably so outside every time he wasnts to smoke. You can always make excuses about how much easier it is not to pack up the diapers, playpen, baby food, etc. I would also buy FFIL a smoking jacket to wear outside and take off when he comes in to minimize the smoke smell. Also, since he's a guy he may not want to hold future baby that much anyway. My FFIL smokes and drinks to much, though only outside - he's a great guy and really smart, but FI (health obsessed, in a good way) has given up trying to get him to quit.
I'm in the same situation and with the studies showing that even third-hand smoke can be dangerous, it's going to be a sticky situation when FH and I start thinking about babies...All this advice was very helpful to read and I think that ultimately, my child's health is more important than offending my in-laws and I will do whatever is necessary to protect them from smoke exposure...
While I completely agree that foresight and pre-planning are great and necessary things to do before getting pregnant, I think you shouldn't worry too much about this (and I only say this because you're worrying enough to post about it). It's great to see this coming, but don't stress about a potential conflict that's not anywhere in the forseeable future. By the time you actually have a baby, your in-laws may figure it out for themselves. Like I said, it's good to think about what you might do, but I wouldn't mention it to your husband (even in casual conversation, he'd probably just be confused or think you're making a vieled attack on his parents' smoking) until you're actually pregnant.
My BFF delt with this for years until her MIL pased away from cancer (due to smoking). They were pretty strict about it. MIL came over to their house 97% of the time, the rest of the time they'd go to her house but the kids spent 97% of the time outsied and this easn't until they were well into their toddler years NOT when they're infants.
My grandparents all used to smoke, but when I was born, my parents wouldn't let them come visit me unless they promised to smoke outside on the porch. They wouldn't take me to their homes because of the smoke either. And eventually all my grandparents quit smoking, if it was a choice between seeing their grandchild and smoking, they made the right choice! I'm with the PPs in that I would definitely choose my child's health over my parents or in laws.
Third hand smoke is usually the residue that the smoke leaves on surfaces etc. So even though a person may not be smoking around you (second hand smoke), the smoke effects are still there and still dangerous.
Here is a NY Times article about it.
"Third-hand smoke is what one smells when a smoker gets in an elevator after going outside for a cigarette, he said, or in a hotel room where people were smoking. “Your nose isn’t lying,” he said. “The stuff is so toxic that your brain is telling you: ’Get away.’”
An example of how noxious cigarette smoke is:
It smells like cigarettes in my office right now. The guy across from me thinks it's probably because the air conditioning intake is near the smoker's corner and this is the first time it's turned on all year. I don't know. It's not like we're in a small building either. It's an old Safeway and to the best of my knowledge no one is out there smoking right now. Either way, it's nasty and giving me a headache. I'm going home early. This is not ok.
Yeah I know all about this. My mom and stepdad smoke inside their house. My stepdad works all day so hes out alot of the time, my mom however, does not work. She just sits in her house allllll day long smoking. I cant even walk into their house sometimes. I do not smoke, I find it nasty, disgusting and have seen first off what it does to your appearance. When we have my whole family over at my parents( and by whole family i mean me and my 2 brothers w/their gfs) EVERYONE smokes but my FI and I and one of the GF's. So we're all sitting there in a plume of blue smoke. I HATE IT. well needless to say, FI and I have already talked about this and decided that in no way will our future children be subjected to that. If my mom wants to see her grandkids, she has to come to me.
I know people are probably sitting there like ...wow, thats harsh. But, trust me, its not. My moms the type who when would be driving to town, Her and my stepdad would smoking in the car at the same time, windows rolled UP! us 3 kids sitting in the back, throats raw from breathing that crap and i remember a few times being brought to tears because i was in so much pain. So no, its not too harsh to tell her to come to me to see her grandkids.
As a semi-new parent (my daughter is 13 months) I have been/am going through this. My fiance's grandmother and great aunts smoke. We discussed that we wouldn't have our child anywhere near it but when she was born, I can't tell you how many arguements we had over it. He (and his family) thought I was being dramatic and a worry-wart. I did not care, though. Some people DON'T know better and it's just rude. I have an aunt and grandfather who also smoke but since they're my family, I have no problem with asking them to wash their hands and they don't ever smoke around my child. I have asthma as a result of my father smoking and I refuse to subject my child to that. Just be firm and stand your ground. If someone doesn't like your position...oh well.
i am an ex-chain smoker and FH and his sister and parents all smoke like chimmneys - it annoys me to no end, because evne when i smoked alot i only smoked outside.
their house REEKS. drives me nuts. the sad thing is that FSIL has a small child and the child already has asthma! they smoke indoors, and "turn the fan on" which basically just blows the smoke around.
i have made a point to say that its not healthy for the child to be in that space, but to no avail.
its not my child, and therefore i cant make that decision for them. i voiced my opinion *shrugs*
but if i ever have kids- they will NOT be allowed in that house when there is smoke there. its REALLY not good for them.
its one thing to be a smoker, but to subject kids to that who dont have a choice is wrong.
I agree @spagayna - I hate hate hate when I see adults smoking in a car with kids in the back. My aunt smokes and takes her adult daughter to school every day. At school everyone thinks my cousin smokes and think she's lying when she says she doesnt.
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I didn't put this in the babies board, because... well...I just didn't. I guess I feel weird about posting in there because I don't actually HAVE children yet, and I'm not prego, sooo... I put it in newlyweds because I AM a newlywed and this is something that I have thought about off and on, since, ya know, sometimes kids just happen ;)
First off let me say I absolutely ADORE my husband's parents. They are awesome people, they love me to death and have always made me feel like part of the family, from the moment he and I first started dating. I don't like the idea of anything ever coming between us or putting strain on that relationship.
With that being said, I have to get to the topic here. The ONLY thing that bothers me, is that they are smokers. It doesn't bother me as in "Ooh, they are bad people because they smoke" because that's simply not true. It bothers me as in "It's really bad for their health (& ours when we visit them) and I don't see them quitting any time soon."
Now, I have known many a smoker in my day, and if there's one thing I've learned in life it is that smokers are highly defensive about their cigs. They can stare you down for HOURS without blinking and turn your skin to STONE. Ok, maybe not that bad but you get the idea.. Anywho, so I'm definately not going to be talking to them about what's good for their health because 1) Surgeon general already did that 2) The DOCTOR already did that (his dad had a stroke awhile back) and 3) They are adults.
The point is, WHEN I have children, I do not want to subject them to a smoke-filled room for hours while we visit. It's hard enough for ME when we go over there, and I have the option of going outside to get a breather. My mom was a smoker until I was 10 years old and when she quit I was SO happy. I was happy because even at 10 I knew it was bad for her AND I was happy I could breathe clean air for once! It makes me SO FREAKING MAD when I see smokers who TRAP their babies or pets in a car/room/house whatever with that toxic crap and the poor things have no way to escape!
I think about this stuff more than hubby does, and since we're not even TALKING about having kids right now, he would probably think I'm just "looking for things to stress about." It might even make him downright mad if I said "When we have kids, I don't want to take them to your parent's house because they smoke too much and I don't want them around that." Honestly though, that's what I feel like saying every time I think about it :(
I love his parents and definately want them to be part of our future children's lives, but I also plan on trying to protect my children from things that are within my control, and that includes keeping them away from second-hand smoke.
Comments? Suggestions? Experience?