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This sounds like a really icky situation! Sorry you're in this predicatment with your FI. Maybe he's feeling this way because he's already been married before, so to him this isn't a huge deal. Or maybe, like you said, its bringing up bad feelings from his past relationship. Either way, I think he should realize that this relationship with you is a totally different one than with his previous wife/girlfriends. In my opinion, he's going to continue to make you feel this way if he doesn't realize that you are different than those other women. I don't think you should feel ashamed of your ring or your engagement, but I also think he should be able to buy himself things without it hurting your feelings. It seems like you've already tried to talk with him about how your feeling... I'd say just keep trying, eventually and hopefully he'll understand that you weren't asking for him to move mountains, but you were asking for something that's not only meaningful to you but that you would love to wear! Good luck! 
Maybe I'm weird, but I don't think a ring should matter. It's not the ring that counts in the marriage.
Honestly, I don't think it's the ring or the motorcycle that is at issue here. I think it's his lack of respect for your feelings.
It sounds like he's essentially saying that he knows how you feel but that how he feels is more important. Frankly, I don't know that I would want to marry a man that put my feelings last. This is supposed to be a special, magical, thing... not a battle. It isn't the size of the ring or how much money he spent. It's the fact that he didn't care enough about how you felt to let it influence him at all.
And the motorcycle? Don't even get me started!
You deserve to be treated with more respect. Good luck to you, I hope it works out.
i don't mean to overanalyze the situation so please forgive me if you feel like i'm stepping out of my bounds, but his attitude towards this ring is a bit alarming to me. maybe it's just a one time thing, but if you notice him disregarding your feelings a lot, then you should really talk to him about his attitude towards you in this relationship in general. i also think you should really talk about how his past relationship has negatively affected your relationship now. have you guys thought about premarital counseling? i think it might help to work through some of these issues. maybe i'm totally misjudging and you will find out more from his perspective. i hope i am. either way, you really shouldn't be afraid to be honest with the person you love and want to be with forever.
good luck!!
I agree that it's not the ring that matters, it's his attitude toward you.
When you were letting him know what kind of ring you wanted, were you just gravitating towards larger ones or did you lay out a strict requirement? Was there a turning point in his attitude, especially as he is approaching a second engagement? (I know how that is, at least for me.) Have you two considered couples counseling, especially if you pinpoint his reaction as something coming out of a previous marriage?
On an lighter note, I had to laugh about the motorcycle. When my DF and I were first considering engagment, he bought a truck and said it was to lock things down with me. LOL! I told him I wanted jewelery. Second, sapphires are AWESOME!
I hope you two can work out something that works for both of you.
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my fiance and I spoke a lot about the ring before we were engaged beacuse he knew it was something that was important to me. It's a piece of jewelry you will be wearing for the rest of your life. Sure settings can be changed and rings can be reset, but the fact that he didn't listen to your wishes is not right. I hope you talk with him and share that it's not that he didn't get you a huge diamond or a flawless stone- it's the way he handled the situation.
good luck:)
Wow. I am also really disturbed by his attitude. My husband was also married before - after a dozen years of what sounds like a pretty ideal marriage, and two kids, his ex sort of flipped out and left him AND the kids for an unemployed biker who lives with his mother (my husband is a very successful professional). On the way out the door, she actually told not only him but also the kids that they were a huge mistake. And of course, she had actually been fooling around with this guy in their bedroom while the kids were at school.
If anyone would have the right to suspect that any relationship can end at any moment, it would be him. And I understand at least a little of how he could feel - because my last relationship before him ended after 7 years (5 living together) when I found out my boyfriend had got his other girlfriend pregnant.
But honestly, unless you really believe that your current relationship is going to last, you've got no business getting married (IMO). A sort of throw-away attitude - the idea that it's proabably going to end sooner or later anyway - is not a strategy for success. And you're right - if you haven't somehow "proven yourself" to his satisfaction - meaning that apparently he doesn't really trust either you, himself, or the relationship - is a problem.
To me it would seem that he's not really over the breakup of his first marriage, and so he's not really ready or willing to "invest" in this one. Obviously it's not that he doesn't have the money to get you what you want, since he's spending at least that much or more on a toy for himself. It would also seem that your happiness is clearly not high on his list of priorities (at least not as high as his happiness).
As far as I can tell, the one thing that most successful and happy marriages have in common is that both partners feel that making the other person happy makes them happy. My husband would do pretty much anything for me that was in his capability to do. If your guy doesn't have that attiitude - if he's holding something back "just in case" it doesn't work out, so he can limit his losses, I don't think you should marry him. At least not now. He's really not ready. I know it's a hard decision, but if I was you I would schedule some couples counseling - and I would be prepared to give the ring back if he won't go and if the two of you can't work this out. Don't let him make you feel bad - it's not about the ring. It's about his attitude towards you.
I'm going to disagree and say that I'm not alarmed at your FI's behavior...the fact that he told you "it doesn't matter what size it is" indicates to me that he's concerned about you being in this for the pretty bauble. Which, if he had a rough divorce, I can understand being somewhat touchy about.
Now I can absolutely understand being frustrated that he didn't take your wishes into account and got you a diamond instead of a sapphire. That is inconsiderate since it was disregarding your style choice and easily something that he could have changed. However, not spending what in your mind is enough money on it seems to be the big issue here. You seem to be tying how much he loves you to how much he spent on your ring, which seems somewhat unhealthy to me.
On the other hand, your FI does seem to be handling this quite poorly, especially given your feelings. I would agree with others that there might be something deeper going on here between the two of you that you might have to work on. Pre-marital counseling is great and I think it's something most couples should do, regardless of how happy/committed they are. You can get on the same page with all of this. Good luck.
I'd have to agree with all the previous posts. It's not about the ring, or even the bike. From your description, it sounds like he hasn't moved on from his previous relationship, and that is something that needs to be addressed before you entire a <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">lifetime commitment with him. Please tell him how you feel, or this will only escalate. Your marriage needs to be based on mutual decision making and communication, and it doesn't seem like that is happening.
If you can't seem to find a way to bring up the topic, try going to see a counselor where you could have an objective third party there. Good luck!
Its not about how much he spent on my ring, its the fact that engagements should be a time of happiness, something the two of you (in some cases) do together. I've done a lot of research on stones, wholesalers, etc. and would pass on that info but he never did anything with it. I believe the way to go in buying a ring is wholesale, stores rip you off with their incredible mark ups. He was married at a very young age (20-25) and was in the Navy while they were married, she cheated, he threw her out and it was done. That is where i think his idea of "you have to earn it" comes from. His previous wife didn't have a fancy ring at all, just a band i think. As far as counseling i'd never thought of it....we rarely argue and we are able to be up front with eachother....if he's being an ass, i tell him so and vice versa. But like i said the ring would always be an argument and maybe he did think i was only in it for the bauble, but i'm not. Its just that i've dreamt of this time in my life forever and am disappointed with the outcome. Some of my friends who are in this same process aren't getting grief from there guys....they're being told "anything you want, I want you to be happy with this, you're wearing it forever" Its just the thought of having to put my time with him and the issue of the bike that is REALLY bothering me.
Sometimes people give others flack for being materialistic when they ask for a specific ring but I see it rather as going after what you really want. When it's something that you know you are going to wear every single day, it's pretty important that you love it, if you ask me. And it doesn't sound like your dream ring is something unreasonable.
The problem here is that he is competely inconsiderate. He got you what he thought you should have, rather than what you wanted. And with the bike, same thing - he did what he thought he should do, with no consideration for your opinion.
Does he do this in other areas of your life too? If so, I think it's time for a real heart to heart. I've heard great things about premarital counselling too. That's if you can convince him it's something *he* wants to do, of course, otherwise good luck getting him there. <wink>
I'm totally not liking the "you gotta earn it" approach. That's complete bull!
You shouldn't have to work so hard at being happy. Think clearly because is not really true when they say "All you need is love"...you also need respect and understanding!!
If I was a guy and my lovely gf wanted to save me money AND get her dream ring I would be thrilled!! With your guy it seems there's a power struggle...He needs to come on top and be right!...people like that DON'T CHANGE they just get worse with time.
Good luck!
i agree with the other comments. it's not about you being materialistic. it seems like he's just being mean to you. and it's not fair that he rubs it in your face either. i think you and him should really discuss the situation. who cares if he gets mad. it needs to be addressed.
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This situation reflects a lot where you two are at in terms of mutual decision-making and communication, particularly in the area of finances.
As a couple moves into marriage, there is a transition from decision-making as single individuals to decision-making as a couple. This decision-making is often inextricably linked to how couples handle money, which research tells us is the number one thing couples fight about. So take heart: you are hardly alone or out of the ordinary from that perspective!
The examples you gave of your ring and his motorcycle demonstrate to me that you disagree on the amount of cooperativeness there should be in making your major decisions, especially meaning large and/or significant purchases. He made both of these decisions himself, whereas you expected to have a significant say in both (or at least, the ring); hence your hurt feelings. As you said, you think an engagement (and its symbol, the ring) should be something you do together.
In thinking so independently he naturally gave the most weight to his own opinion. I don't mean that he necessarily disregarded your opinion, or that he's being inconsiderate, or that he puts your feelings last, as other posters have suggested. No. Unless this is part of a bigger pattern, this probably is not the death knell of your relationship.
I mean that he didn't really listen to your opinion. You said that he thinks he got you the ring you wanted, but really he got you the ring he thought you wanted. Despite your (considerable) efforts, I don't think he heard you, because he was so wrapped up in the symbology of rings, his views on spending his "own money," and his bad experiences with commitment in his last marriage. Nevertheless he bought you a designer ring from a store---to many men designer labels connote status, and many wouldn't know a wholesaler if it hit them on the head---so I think his purchase, from his point of view, shows that he does value you highly. However much he may have failed to listen, he did buy you a ring he thought you would want.
The conversation you need to have is not about the ring or the motorcycle. Those are symptoms of a larger issue: breaking down the barriers in between you so that you function as a team. One of the best arenas for doing this is in premarital counseling. You don't go to premarital counseling because your relationship is in trouble; far from it. You go to make your relationship even better. It provides a safe and neutral environment to lay out your expectations on a million sensitive subjects (money, kids, housework, sex, in-laws, spirituality/life philosophies, and more) so you can find common ground. Believe me, it won't start out all being common ground. Counseling teaches you how to communicate with one another without hurting one another.
Given his propensity to get really upset if you mention you don't like the ring, you will have to weigh how helpful it would be for you to do so right now. Recognize that it's a very loaded issue for him too. Remember, the ring is a symptom, not the problem. Fighting to get the ring you want will not fix this problem. So don't put artificial constraints on the situation (as in, must get new engagement ring now before the engagment is over!); you need to work through it naturally. If you do, I am sure there will come a time when your fiance/husband will get you just what you want. It might not be an "engagement ring," but it can mean just as much if you don't worry about what it's called.
Here's what Shakespeare had to say on the subject:
JULIET:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.
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:( I feel for you honeychild! I'm someone who takes A LOT of time researching before making a big purchase. My hubby bought a super simple ring and didn't put much thought into it. I've often thought that if you were to drop my ring into a big bucket of rings, there's no way I'd be able to pick out mine. I can also totally understand what it's like to have the guy not seem to care about what your preference is. If I were to do it all over again, I'd stick to my guns and if he isn't understanding, he's not the one. Sometimes he talks about getting me other rings but nothing is as important as your engagement and wedding rings. Also this just reflects how he will react in the future towards other things... it's incredibly frustrating.
Personally, I'm offended by the fact that even though you've laid out what you wanted, instead of just saying "ok" or even trying to understand it, he just dismissed it.
My FH is pretty laid back and not too much into labels, designers etc... so when he first heard what kind of ring i was expecting... he was shocked. Even my "minimum" standard was way higher than what he thought reasonable ... I finally explained to him a couple of things...
#1. I dont expect for myself things i can not give myself. I've worked hard to get where I am, and if i want to be "shallow" or "materialistic" in some people's eyes, but it makes me happy for small splurges, so be it... i deserve the little reward.
#2. I dont understand his need for authentic sports jerseys (hand sewn vs. not), his 600 game systems (PS3) and his desire to want to have season tickets to certain sporting events... But what i do know is that its important to him. There are certain things he can care less about, and some things he does find very important... and i need to respect that. My thing is jewelry (asides from shoes)... in turn, my e-ring. (Unfortunately for him). I love jewelry. some girls don't. But its "my thing". So i needed him to accept it even if he can't fully wrap his brain around it.
When it came down to my e-ring. I coudln't be happier. it's more than i can imagine it'd ever be... and i helped him find the stone... but what was most important to me was that even though in his mind, it wasn't a big deal... and that really it should be the meaning behind it... he loved me enough to want to make me happy, even if he couldn't understand how something so "trivial" to him coud make me so happy.. and in turn the meaning behind the engagement is love, spending our lives together, and me knowing that even with our differences we can respect one another and accept one another.
So often, I hear how women beat around the bush, are too passive aggressive, should just say what is on our mind or explain what we want... I think you've done that very nicely and he should be grateful for the info that is often not so easy to obtain. The fact that he disregards it though... not fair to you. And even though he was married before... he shouldn't project that past experience on to you!
I'm with a lot of the others on this. The issue is not the ring. The issue is his dismissal of your feelings and his seemingly cavalier attitude toward your marriage. Granted I don't know you or him, but from what insight you've provided here, I think it's worth it to take a hard look at how he treats your feelings regarding other things in your life and whether he's really ready and wanting to be in a commitment like marriage again.
I agree with chelseamorning and believe her post was well-said. Aside from your communication as a couple and the attitudes towards each other, the issues here are not only surrounding your FH but yourself as well. I don't agree with his views necessarily, but I also don't believe there is a malice here that is intended towards you by him being entirely inconsiderate. You state that he did get you the ring that he thought you wanted, although he may not have known the smartest way to go about it.
As a woman, it is easy to get caught up in the "expectations" of an engagement ring. Maybe you assume it will be at least 1 carat, or platinum, or a sapphire. Yes, many of us dream of a certain ring, but there are many things that the American society dictates we "should" dream about...a huge house, a brand-new car, etc. This may or may-not fit into your lifestyle, but these pre-packaged ideas about what an individual is anticipated to possess by a certain age have caused the majority of the American population to live beyond their means. Perfect example: he is financing his bike (a depreciating asset), which will be worth half of its value (if he is lucky) by the time he pays it off, and that you are also simultaneously saving for a wedding that I can only presume may end up being financed as well.
In your mind, you anticipated your engagement ring to be acertain size and stone. Although that was your expectation, isn't the fact that he proposed to you enough to make you swoon over his gift? FI and I looked at engagement rings once, many months before we got engaged. He knew I had an inclination towards princess-cut diamonds, but that I would be happy with others as well. I knew he favored a traditional solitaire-style ring because of its classic style and that fact that when you see a solitaire you know what it means. He decided to go against my mention that I may prefer size over quality, and decided to go for the best quality we could get for the price range and to this day I cannot stop looking at it. Not because it is princess-cut, not because it is big or small, but because it symbolizes our love for each other and the best moment in my life.
I think your communication with each other is the issue here, as chelseamorning was saying. The ring is what has brought to light this bigger issue, the fact that it doesn't seem like you two are working towards achieving your goals together. You can work on a financial plan together that includes both the motorcycle and the wedding, but bear in mind you may not get the wedding budget you imagined and he may not get the motorcycle budget he envisioned. Your individual purchases affect each other's life. Try talking about how both of you feel and going there. The biggest common denominator is your love for each other. Good luck!
I am going to have to agree with the majority of commenters here. Forget the ring issues, it's a lack of consideration for your feelings period which is alarming. If you are having this issue now what will it be like down the road over bigger issues?
I really didn't know what kind of ring I wanted so my boyfriend asked me. Initially he wanted to do it all himself but I think he realized he was out of his element and I am glad he asked for help. I didn't want to be pushy at all and would have been fine with him picking out a ring but he was really clueless, swallowed his pride and admitted it. I also didn't want him to get ripped off since he isn't much of a jewelry buyer so I was involved more than I wanted to be but everything worked out surprisingly well with NO drama at all. Whew!
Best of luck to you!
I could be way off-base here, but in a weird way, it almost sounds like your fiance is testing you. Because his first marriage ended so painfully, I wonder if part of him is trying to see if you will still want to be with him if he gets you a ring that is nothing like what you wanted. You said he thinks he got you exactly what you wanted, but I think his constant teasing about how you wished you had a bigger ring shows that he knows the ring he bought isn't one you're very happy with. His insistence on waiting 5 years to "earn" the big ring also sounds like he's very nervous because of what happened with his last marriage.
I'm with Suzanno, though -- that kind of "wait and see" attitude towards you and your marriage is not OK, and he needs to get over it. It's understandable that he's feeling nervous because he was burned so badly the last time, but he needs to understand that you are different from his ex-wife and you don't deserve to be "tested" because of what she did. I think this is the kind of thing a counselor could help you discuss in a constructive way -- even if you guys normally communicate really well, it sounds like he really doesn't get how he's making you feel, and sitting down with an impartial third party to work through some of the issues from his first marriage.
When you do talk to him about the ring, I would stress the sapphire vs. diamond issue instead of the size issue -- explain that this is a piece of jewelry that you're planning to wear every day for the rest of your life, and you don't want to hurt his feelings but you had your heart set on the sapphire and it would mean a lot to you if you could trade it in for the stone you wanted. Would you be willing to compromise on the size and get a smaller sapphire? That might help him feel like you're not judging the ring based on its size or cost.
Good luck!!
Chelseamorning has a really good point about the money issues. One thing that premarital counseling does is encourage you to work out how you are going to manage things as a couple, and money is one of those things. My husband and I started when we got engaged with the attitude that, starting with the ring, all major purchase were "our" money. After all, after you are married, not only is it really all joint money, but it's all joint debt. I don't believe that major purchase decisions (like a motorcycle) should be made by only one partner. Whatever your and your FI believe needs to be worked out now, or it will be something that you continue to have difficulties with.
And honestly, never fighting is not actually an indication of a good relationship. It may just be an indication that you don't really get into any issues that might cause a serious disagreement, and so you actually never work anything out. My husband and his ex actually never did fight. and he thinks that was one of the things that ended his marriage. As far as he could tell, she seldom had an opinion, and so he pretty much did as he liked (including making all the money decisions). By the time she was sleeping with another man, they (of course) did fight about it, and the one big thing that came out was that she felt he made all the decisions. She wanted, in the end, a relationship where she felt like more of an equal partner. Of course, she went about it in completely the wrong way.
But seriously, it sounds to me like this may be the first big conflict you have had. It is a typical relationship issue - money is power - and he is using his money to demonstrate that he can do what he likes, and doesn't really have to consider your opinion. It's not unreasonable of him to buy a motorcycle, if he's been saving for that - but it's also not unreasonable for him to put a little more money into your ring, and wait a year for the motorcycle. These are the kinds of compromises you both make, throughout a marriage, for it to work. If his standard approach is going to be to make you feel bad about what you want, and make major spending decisions without regard for your opinion, then in the end this marriage will probably end badly for him as well. Unfortunately, that will also mean it ends badly for you. Regardless of whether you get the ring, please, please get the money thing worked out before you get to the altar.
The part that upsets me the most is how he essentially said that you do not deserve the ring you want, and that you have to wait a few years to earn it.
As far as him not getting you the ring you wanted, maybe he thought he did. I know that he teases you about the size of the ring, but is it possible that he thought you wanted a diamond from a jewelry store? I know that if I knew my boyfriend could not afford a diamond from a jewelry store, I would definitely go out of my way to look up wholesalers and even suggest that he buy a different center stone! And I would be perfectly happy with that, even though my first choice may have been that diamond. I'm wondering if he thought that this was the case with you, and that you actually wanted a diamond, but were afraid he couldn't or wouldn't spend the money on you and didn't want to make him feel bad. I don't know your FI at all, but this is just a thought! I know sometimes men have a difficult time listening, and sometimes misinterpret even the simplest things!
Good luck to you!
I agree with most of the posters above - this is not about the ring.
I'm troubled that you fear bringing this up to him, that you fear he will be 'furious'. I realize I do not know you and I do not know your relationship at all, but judging strictly from your email, it seems your issues run much deeper than a piece of jewelry.
When you're with the right person, they WANT you to be happy, they take your feelings into consideration, and want to do nice things for you.... not to purposely disappoint you and ridicule you for your feelings.
I would certainly have qualms about marrying someone whom I was scared to have a discussion with for fear that they would become furious.
I know exactly how you feel... My boyfriend and I had been together for 2 years and I had shown him rings that I liked and were interested in. Well within months he came home with a brand new motorcycle ( about $11k? I think ) And of course he had to buy all the accessories for it and so on.. I was completely and utterly devestated. Just crushed. I thought how could he do this when he knows what I've been looking at, and am I not important enough in his life to put our future first..? I didn't care if I got a a $ 500 ring. I really didn't. But it was the principle of the fact. It was like he completely blew me off for the motorcycle. And he did.
He's actually on mortcycle #2 and this is 4 years later and I still don't have a ring. Partially because i could not get over the bike and was so crushed that he even put that before me. We went to counseling for over a year and even broke up for a little while because I felt he was being selfish. It's taken YEARS for me to get over the whole bike thing. We've been together for 6 years and I'm about ready to give the ultimatium get married or get out. What's the point of staying together if I want to get married and he doens't...? Only within the last 6 months has things gotten progressively better. It's taken a long time... and honestly I think you're going to hold alot of resentment torwards that bike for a long time to come if you know that you got second best because of it.
I'd even be more upset if I knew that he got the ring knowing he was going to get the bike and disregarded what you were looking at because he knew he wanted a bike. Good luck, I would hate for anyone to feel like how I've felt in my past. Being passed up for a toy is a horrible feeling.
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I need some serious advice.....i'm disappointed with my engagement ring as well as the process that led up to it. I love my fiance but he and I did not see eye to eye on the ring. When the discussion of the ring came up it would result in a heated argument. I wanted a certain size, he thought i was being materialistic. I wasn't even asking for a diamond, i wanted a 1.25-1.5 sapphire ring, he would get angry and tell me that it shouldn't matter what size it is. He's been married before and i think some feelings of failure resurface sometimes and he takes it out on me. He says he doesn't understand these guys who go out and spend alot of money on rings when the engagement or marriage could go bust. He believes that you have to "put your time in" in order to get the big ring. What? Have I not already put my time in of 3 years with him? Am I not worth having the ring i've dreamt about? It's not like i'm asking for a 3 carat flawless diamond! He wouldn't let me help and went out and did exactly what i told him NOT to do....bought a designer ring (Ritani) and a jewelry store, such a rip off!!!
To make matters worse he recently was talking about wanting to get a motorcycle and that he'd be willing to spend $6K-$7K for it....much more than he paid for my ring. He bought the bike, in the midst of us saving for the wedding, and i feel it is a slap in the face. Where are his prioirities? Do I mean that little to him that he can't put me first but rather he goes and buys a toy for himself. A toy he's making payments on every month but said he didn't want to make payments on a ring? My ring is my motorcycle. Also sometimes he teases me about my ring saying that i don't like it and that i wish it was bigger. I have NEVER said anytying like that and it is like salt in the wound....as is him telling me "yea i almost bought you a bigger ring, but didn't"
I need to talk to him about this but am worried he'll be furious as he thinks he got me exactly what i wanted but all my requests fell of deaf ears. He would make me feel ashamed for asking for a certain size ring, i don't know how to handle this but i am extremely upset.