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I have three friends (including my FI) who were divorced by age 24 because their spouses cheated. That totally sucks, but everyone has to evaluate his/her current relationship and not look at the rest of the world, because they are not the ones who will be having the marriage. It sounds like you have a really good outlook--not a doomsday one, but not a rose-colored glasses one either. I think your very balanced approached and the fact that you understand May 23 is about your marriage, not your wedding, is terrific. Have you talked with your FI about this? What does he say? I'm sorry you're having to hear fighting at home--that is never fun. I'm about to move home until my wedding the week before yours (woohoo!!). Good luck! I'm so glad you brought this up here. Gives us all a lot to think about!
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Well, biology is always a really poor excuse... but you know some people have trouble overcoming natural drive with instinct, and it's hard to argue that human beings are naturally built to be lifelong monogamous creatures. It's what we WANT to be and it's what we TRY to be, but I daresay that many people fail at that goal because the effort of maintaining fascination and interest in a long-term relationship is more difficult than succumbing to the interest of a new fling.
I wouldn't be disillusioned, I would just be realistic. Take what other people do with a grain of salt-- it doesn't always (nor should it) apply to you. Do your best. It's your life to live! :)
I agree with Mrs. Cherrypie about the biological instinct thing- some people can't over come it (and there's nothing wrong with that as long as they are honest with themselves and their partners).
What other people do does not apply to you. Don't let their decisions rain on your parade :)
I know a few people who came from divorced families (one of them was the result from cheating), and they have strong marriages right now. I think it's because they and their spouses fulfilled all the things they wanted to for their career and themselves before they got married. Like you, they have a realistic view of marriage. It sounds like you have a good view on marriage and are pretty much prepared, and I hope that your fiance shares the same view.
As for your parents and people you know, did they also have this view on marriage? How prepared were they to get married? I don't know them, but I'm guessing that they still needed more personal and/or career growth when they got married, which may lead them to cheat...I don't know - I'm sorry if offended anyone from this comment. So I see your concern. However, their situations prior to marriage may be different than yours. If anything, perhaps you can talk to your FI about your concerns like avidillard0110 suggested. Also, I just took a marriage prep class, which helped my FI discern if we're ready for marriage, talk about how we want to handle different issues like money and communication styles, and other things. This type of class may help dissolve any of those fears.
While you may see divorce happen to a lot of people, I hope you see that there are people in healthy marriages as well. I wish you and your fiance the best of luck on your future marriage!
I'm so sorry to hear that Liz, I can see how that would become really weighty. I have a pretty different view because of my parents. They've been together for over 35 years and still go on dates, romantic weekends away and are so cute. As their child I used to find it gross because I never saw anyone else's parents go on dates, say I love you all the time etc. But now I really appreciate the example they've set for me. My parents work hard to prioritize their marriage above work and other life stresses and they approach things as a team. I'm not saying it's good to be naive, but I think focusing on the other 50% is a positive thing. Plus, I've heard the "50% of marriages failing" is a faulty statistic. I can't remember why though.
I definitely second going to a pre-marital class or counseling. We haven't gone to one yet, but will go once we're back in Maryland. I think they're a fantastic way to have many major discussions with a mediator about very important issues. Good luck!
My parents divorced when I was in my early twenties. Because of this, divorce became a sort of obsession for me; I became determined not to let it happen to me. As a result, the ending of my relationships became a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. I have been with my fiance for a long, long time, but have broken off our relationship several times because he did something like wear white socks to black pants and I would think, "eventually, this will lead to our divorce". Luckily for me, he is a strong man who knows me very well, and is willing to invest in our relationship. Since getting engaged, I have decided to stop focussing on all of the reasons that our relationship might fail, and focus on doing everything in my power to make it work. We often talk about things that are required for our relationship to be balanced, and make changes and adjustments in our behaviour towards each other so that resentment doesn't build up. We are entering our marriage with eyes wide open, but convinced that our marriage will work simply because we are willing to do whatever it takes to make it work.
Liz, I'm so sorry you are being bombarded with these negative situations before your wedding. Please know there are many successful marriages in this world. It is so hard to imagine, I'm sure when you mostly see divorce. Any successfully married couples in your lives, you can talk to? Were you required to go through any premarital programs, or pre-cana, through your church? It can be so helpful.
You sound like you are not disillusioned about marriage. Let me offer you what some of the major red flags are to getting divorced.
Age- the younger you are, the more difficult it is to maintain your marriage. (I can attest to this. any friends of mine who have gotten divorced, got married at 22 or 21.)
Religion- Having religion, (I don't think it matters to much which one) is more likely to keep your marriage glued together. I'm assuming that people who are marrying in front of God are feeling like there is a third party to their union, so the vows are also to and with God. And probably take on more meaning. When my husband and I were getting married the deacon asked us, if your partner cheated, would you divorce him/her? Our answers were both no. The point being, it's one thing to have a chronic problem on your hands.....But if your partner made one bad decision, your marriage should mean more than just leaving based on that. Marriage is hard work sometimes. You have to figure out where the train went off the tracks and get it back on again. And chances are both people have something to work on.
Finance - Biggest reason for divorce. Make sure you know where you both stand, financially. No holding back debt, salaries etc. Figure out how you think you should spend and save.
I'm not sure if I've offered anything you haven't already heard.... Just know that if you love your FH and are ready to be married, you can be the successfully married couple everyone else aroud you looks up to. It sounds like your family could use one of those. Good luck.
Hi there:
I totally agree with you, not because it happen to other people it will necessary will happen to you.
In a marriage, the first thing is always to be honest with each other and to communicate, if you do not talk, you will not have confidence and the marriage will not last.
First of all, you have to be friends, persons who like to be together not just for the sexual part, they love to be together because they laugh together, they trust each other, they like to do things together.
I have my parents who recently had their 41 anniversary.
So do not thing that because this happened to your parents, it will happen to you.
Actually, Tanya, atheists and agnostics have the lowest rate of divorce.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
edit: For some reason, the link doesn't work when you click on it, but if you type in that extension you can see the article.
Who are the two bees that broke off engagements recently? I only know of one....
For some reason, all of my closest friends still have parents who are married. I think I should interview them all to find out what the secret is! My parents have been married for >35 years, they started dating in high school and got married at age 21. My mom's parents divorced when she was little and she had no relationship with her dad, my dad's parents were married for 40 miserable years. So you don't have to follow in the footsteps of your parents nor do you have to feel doomed by odds. I think what is important is all the work you are doing now to mentally prepare for marriage and your realistic view that it is not always easy.
On a side note, I don't believe that men always cheat. I absolutely believe my husband when he says he never cheated on a gir. I also believe several other guys I have dated DID cheat. You just have to trust and have faith in your spouse and not believe the guys who think everyone cheats just because they do.
Liz, I'm so sorry that you have had to experience all of that. Unfortunately, I feel like I know exactly how you are feeling. I have had a similar situation and background. My parents divorced when I was in 3rd grade. Honestly, I have not recovered from it and I still have issues from it. My mom remarried and divorced after 9 years about 3 years ago. Again, that affected me. My Dad remarried a few years ago, and I hate my step-mother. I think she treats my father horrible, me and my brother. She is so rude to my fiance and I have heard her say "I hate him" to my father before. I also have uncles/aunts that were married for 35 years plus and then divorced because one cheated. My fiance doesn't come from the most stable family either. His birth father left his mom when she was pregnant, and his adopted father deserted him about 5 years after he divorced his mother. It really does suck, and I'm sorry that you had gone through it.
On that note and someone mentioned it before, I think that it is really important to try to be the couple that does survive. Strive to be the couple that everyone looks up to.That is what my fiance and I are trying/hoping to do. One of the reason why I am so excited (and yes, incredibly nervous given my family history) to marry him is because we both want a supportive, loving and stable family. We both come from drama filled and "broken" families. It is extremely important to us to not have that. I also don't have the most supportive immediate family, and he has some major issues as well. We know what it is like to come from it, and we both are so excited to have "our little family", even if it is just us and our dog. I think we understand each other so much because of how we grew up.
I have spoken to my aunt/uncles that have had successfull marriages. They say that the key is respect, communication and love. I have heard people say on these boards and around my friends that you can't be in love forever. I hope/think that it is not true. My particular uncle/aunt that has been married for 20 plus years are still in love and you can see it. They have a busy life too -4 kids, totally different work schedules, but they make it happen. They still go on dates once in awhile. They make time for each other.
My advice - try to look at the positives! I know its dificult to ignore the big bad negative thoughts and experiences, but the only way to be happy is to have faith that it will work out for you and your fiance.
I'm very lucky. My parents have been married for over 30 years , and have been an great example for how I would like our marriage to work. They have had tough times. There was a short time that my mom went to live with my grandma just to get some "time away". I think a lot of the unions I have seen fall apart ( mostly my friends) had bad communication to begin with. I really think communication is key. It's important to talk and make sure both of you are on the same page.
My sister got married at 20 , some people though she was too young , etc etc. Her and her husband make a great team! and again while I know for them it is not always smooth sailing , it's remembering that you have to stick through the hard times to get back to the good times.
Personally I think a lot of my generation thinks the world owes us something , I have no idea why. I think many of them are giving up on a good thing too easily , or get into a instant gratification situation with out think about the future.
I was definitely disheartened when the two bees posted the news of their break-ups. I come from divorced parents as well and have serious abandonment and trust issues. One good thing about being like we are, Liz.Smith, is that we are constantly self-checking and aware of our potential pitfalls. For example, I knew long before we were engaged that we would eventually have to go through pre-marital counseling, not because we "need" it, but because it will help prevent future problems that we may encounter. We started a few weeks ago and it has been wonderful so far. I would highly recommend it to you or anyone else who wants to get the ugly stuff out of the way now, before it is too late.
First, thanks to everyone for replying! I really do feel better reading all these supportive comments! All the advice and personal stories are great to read.
We are going to start our premarital counseling this Saturday morning. We'll be forced to stuff it all into just two sessions tho, because the FH is currently living 1000 miles away. He'll be in town for his dad's wedding this weekend, so we'll get to start then. I'm really hoping it'll be a good experience for us.
We have talked about these things a lot. His family is actually even more screwed up than mine (his dad has 2 kids from a previous relationship that my FH only just found out about, his mom cheated on his dad, they divorced, mom married the other guy, he cheated on her, my FH was the one to find out and had to tell his mom, they divorced, etc. But his mom's in a happy marriage now, and his dad's marrying a wonderful woman this Friday, so that's encouraging), so he's definitely as well grounded on this as I am. He knows it's not easy, but is just as committed to making it work.
@cautious_joy- I totally feel you on breaking up a lot! I have broken up with every guy I've ever dated. Actually the only guy who's dumped me was in 4th grade! ^_^ But yeah, I had a ton of committment issues that took us several years to get through. I broke up with my FH 3 times, but every time he stuck it out and helped me see why I didn't really want to lose him. He's amazing. I'm glad you've managed to find the person to help you through it too!
@Lina- Thank you SO much for the link to that article! I'm a committed atheist (just don't tell my Southern Baptist family!) and he's a "I-don't-believe-in-a-god-but-don't-really-care-either" sort of atheist/agnostic/apathetic (^_^), so that makes me happy! I definitely agree with what that article said about the church not being supportive and things, my mom has been told outright that she's going to hell for getting divorced and remarried. It's kind of nice to think that, according to that study at least, we might have an edge in this one.
@janna19- I believe it was Miss Fondue and Miss Snapdragon, if I recall correctly.
Thanks again to everyone! I love all the things that were said. I especially like the idea of striving to be that success story that everyone looks up to. We can do that, I know it! Thanks a ton!
Oh, and AmyM83, we're date twins, yay! (I have no idea why that makes me happy, but it does ^_^)
I divorced my xh because he cheated.
And I'd do it again. We had firm boundaries and a good marriage and when he became super-successful money changed him plain and simple. His normal brain morphed into that of an egomaniac and what used to matter didn't anymore. It was a complete flip flop.
But I can tell you that my guy and I have extensively discussed this topic and both of us are just not the kind to cheat and are morally opposed to it.
My advice to you, is to discuss this topic AT LENGTH with your partner and see how they will deal with it. Whether you like it or not, there will always be somebody smarter, more attractive, more fun to be around and that person will walk into our workplace, our homes, and into our lives and what depends on is how you react and your choices made first BEFORE you react to that situation. We all age, get wrinkles someday and one day we might gain 20 pounds after a baby. But that has no bearing on why somebody cheats. What matters is how their moral compass is tuned.
I believe in love, I believe in committment, I have faith. I also believe in my partner and although we're both divorced, we feel even stronger about our marriage (once we marry) being forever..we won't divorce. Plus we're committed to working on things.
Don't fear. Not all is doom and gloom. Just remember to love and above all COMMUNICATE. And this is coming from an encore bride happier than ever before.
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Don't forget the law of squeaky wheels! These people who are divorcing and cheating and remarrying have relationships full of drama. The marriages that are working are quietly working (unless they're having a big anniversary party). So the ones you're more likely to have your attention drawn to are the negative ones. I bet if you start looking for successful marriages among those you know you'll find a fair number of those too.
I think a lot of good advice and comments have been posted; I agree with lots of it.
I believe the statistic that 50% of marriages ending in divorce is faulty because they count second, third, fourth marriages - does that make sense? Researchers have suggested that the statistic is falsely high because people who marry and divorce more than once are overrepresented (like entering a raffle more than once).
Also, I think it's healthy that you are letting these occurrences remind you that marriage requires work. Every time I see a marriage or engagement struggle or disintegrate, I use the opportunity to examine the aspects of my own marriage that I think need work, and evaluate how I can improve our relationship. HOWEVER, it becomes really unhealthy if you let it cause unfounded doubt in your decision to marry (like cautiousjoy's "he's wearing white socks with black pants - this is going to lead to our divorce someday").
Try to seek out and examine those relationships in your life that you think represent a healthy, growing marriage. take a look at how they interact with each other, and how they prioritize their lives in order to sustain a good relationship.
Lastly, if you need more happy anecdotes, I have two for you: My parents celebrated their 30th anniversary this past month, and I can't even begin to describe how much their marriage has set an example for me. My in-laws married young (at 20 years old), and celebrated their 40th anniversary this past month. They are a working couple and are a fabulous example of how a marriage can be the best thing in your life, even with challenging careers.
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Oh wow, I didn't know about Miss Snap.
I agree, it does not have to be you. Communication and respect is key.
At times I feel the same way you do, it is very dishearting to have close family and friends who have divorced, espcially when the reason was infidelity. At first, and before I met my FI, this gave me a very apathetic view on marriage. But I didn't want my fear of divorce to deter me from marriage. I told myself I didn't want to be naive about marriage and think that the problems other people have wouldn't affect me, and I still belive this. The only thing I can do is be positive, and I feel that my FI and I are truely compatable and not worry about "what might happen" in the future. I trust him and love him and really see us together years to come. Its all about positive thinking and not letting other peoples relationships mess with our heads :)
That's really crappy to hear. But as you said, if 50% of marriages end in divorce then 50% must succeed! Also, I'm pretty sure that if you disect that stat you'll see that 50% of marriages ending in divorce doesn't mean that 50% of people who get married get divorced - some people get married and divorced several times which drives the number up. But most stats are made up anyway...so I digress.
Here is what I would do if I were you:
1) While looking at and learning from people who have divorced, also try to look for examples of successful happy marriages. I look at my grandparents as an example of life long love. Of course they bickered and weathered hard times together, but they were a team and were genuinely in love to the end. My grandpa passed away a few years ago (after 50+ years of marraige) and my grandma always talks about how he was as handsom as a movie star when they were young and how he was such a good nonno (the Italian word for grandpa, but in the context I think she means husband/father/grandpa/person). They were completely devoted to each other and in love. It does happen!
2) Realize that marriage is a leap of faith (in yourself and in your partner). Only the fullness of time allows us to know the future. All you can do is make sure that you're making the best decision for your future goals then give it everything you've got. I think the fact that you are actively thinking about this is nothing but a good thing.
Good luck! I think everyone here can relate to the nerves that come with being on the precipice of an enourmous life change.
Ugh. I've struggled with these feelings too - I think any kid (grown-up kids, too!) whose parents divorced questions whether love is real or if marriage can ever work. My fiancee and I both have parents who split up and it does make me feel like "what makes us so special? why will we stay together?" when you see and hear about all these couples breaking up.
I think the best thing you can do is have your eyes open in a relationship - don't get married because it's time, or people think you should, or there's pressure. Do the pre-marital counseling to talk about important issues you might have forgotten/been reluctant to raise on your own, and then keep your fingers crossed! Do the best you can and put the right amount of work into it. That's all you can do.
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Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I am feeling much like Liz was, albeit in a different way. My FH is in the military, and there are lots of rumors/statistics about the military having higher cheating and divorce rates and that scares me. I trust my FH with all my heart, and we've been together for 5 1/2 years already (but he has only started being gone a lot recently since he just became active). I just worry and wonder if military marriages do end up in divorce more than regular marriages. It's not like I'm necessarily worried about him cheating, just if that's there's a lot of dysfunctionality around I worry about that making it harder...and him being gone a lot too. Sorry if this is incoherent. Anyway, this post is probably better aimed at the military boards but I wanted to piggyback on Liz's post because that's how I feel right now.
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Alright, so I've never been one to have some great fairy tale vision of what marriage is like. My dad's on his second marriage, my mom's on her third. I'm not naive. But I feel like lately I'm seeing so many things that make me feel even more discouraged about it.
It's come out recently that two different marriages of very prominent members of my mom's church have been torn apart by affairs. One man left his wife of 20+ years and is now living with the other woman. Another woman had an affair for years, but they're somehow toughing this out and trying to keep the marriage together.
My manager at my new store used to work at one I also used to work at, tho at different times. And I know, tho I don't think he realizes I know, that the woman he is now married to was the wife of one of my friends at the old store. She had an affair with the current manager, left my friend, and married this guy. (That situation is SO awkward because he's actually a really good manager but I hate knowing this about him!)
At least 2 bee bloggers have broken off their engagements fairly recently, one for an affair, one because he said he'd probably wind up having an affair because he wasn't really in love with her anymore.
I had a conversation with a coworker the other day in which he basically said everyone cheats. I disagree, but he admits he's never *not* cheated on a woman he dated.
It's just really disheartening. I'm not feeling so much disillusioned with marriage, as humanity. It just seems insane sometimes. I try to remind myself that if 50% of marriages end in divorce, doesn't that mean that 50% are successful? Glass half full and all. But humans kind of suck sometimes, and I really wish I weren't running into *so* many examples so close to the wedding. I want my fairy tale!
And of course it doesn't help any that I moved home till the wedding and my mom and stepdad are fighting a lot more than usual. Nothing to actually worry about, but as a child of divorced parents, fighting parents stresses me out no matter how irrational it is. But my mom says it's good for me to see some conflict resolution in action. ^_^
(oh, and note- I seriously don't have a naive view of marriage as being easy, I've been doing a lot of reading/talking on things we can both do to stay focused on the fact that May 23 is about our *marriage* not just the wedding. I just really wish I could be naive just for a little while, and the world won't let me!)