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You've gotten a lot of great responses and discussion on this thread. I just wanted to share an essay that you might find interesting. It's by Jessica Valenti, who's the founder of the blog Feministing, and how she got a lot of negative reactions when she got engaged:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/apr/24/feminist-wedding-jessica-valenti
@ teaandtoast and arachna, I wasn't trying to imply that the pressure on both sides of the SAHM/SAHD decision were equal, just that two sides exist. I'm sure that if FI decided to stay home the backlash would be from almost everyone he knows rather than a handful of close relatives.
@ jduck84, thanks for posting. That was a good article to read.
Almost every woman I know (except for a very few very religious Muslims and Evangelical Christians), are feminists, and almost all of them are married/want to be married and want to have children. Even most of the lesbians I know want marriage and a family. Perhaps it is just the group of people I hang around with, but most (North American) people I know have a very positive view of marriage, and it probably helps that those who are already married have partners who at least share the ideal of equal partnerships. When I go and visit my friends, their husbands usually cook us dinner so we can have more time to catch up, and the husbands all take care of the children/share nighttime feeding duties etc. I do think that one thing in common amoung all of my friends (me included) is that we struggle with what exactly it means to be a modern feminist wife. (I have a blog called On Becoming a Good (Feminist) Korean Wife.) Trying to negotiate between the history of being a wife, the examples we saw in our mothers and grandmothers, our desire to be mothers and career women, and the practical realities of our relationships and contexts can be pretty tricky. However, now that I read your post, I think I need to be more grateful that the pressures I feel about being a wife come more from my own internal debates and not from my circle of friends.
I would just like to add that I'm really impressed with the hive right now. I think this is by far the most civilized discussion of feminism and SAHMs/SAHDs I've ever seen on an anonymous internet forum! That says a lot about the caliber of Weddingbee readers!
This is a great thread with so many empowered and intelligent women! And at least one feminist man.
@ MrBee: You can be feminist, I don't know what is more feminist for a man than to support his wife's project into a business and run a lot of the day to day guiding and providing advice to thousands of brides. Pretty damn empowered to me!
And those of you who say feminism is about choice? I'm right with you.
If I want to stay in my career after I have kids, up to me. If I want to come home and stay home, up to me too. Same goes with changing my name. I don't think taking my FI's name is anti-feminist, it's my decision.
I think the biggest arguement I see w/ feminism when it comes to weddings is the name changing game. I think using feminism as the reason to keep your own name is kinda flawed, only in that in America, last names are patriarcal. So if it's not your FI's name, it's your dad's or your grandfathers.
Otherwise I suggest anyone interested in weddings and women's expectations or feminism related issues to check out http://www.apracticalwedding.com if you haven't already. Meg over there has some great ideas approaching gender roles in marriage.
I'd like to second Mrs. E. I was warry about posting this thread because I've seen feminist talks get really out of hand. We have a great group of people here at the hive :)
MichelleMyBell, I totally get what your saying. I've seen in online at the very least. I'm sorta relieved to say that my community doesn't have a woman's feminism group. Our women are powerful and we do have women's groups just nothing like feminism. And it's a relief because I have a strong belief in marriage and family and from what I've seen online feminist tend to think less of family and marriage. But maybe I'm strange because I don't have an issue with a 1950's sort of living. The plan for now is for me to be a Stay at home wife and one day I'd love to be a Stay at home mom. These things are important to me. Do I feel like less of a woman if I can't be? No. Do I think working wives are wrong? H-e- double hocky sticks no (lol) To each is there own. There is power in being a woman that we can respect every aspect of a woman without looking down on another way a woman chooses to live her life.
I think I should also note that I don't look down on feminists, but for goodness sake don't look down on married women. Just because you feel like settling down is wrong doesn't mean that you should automatically think less of a woman who wants to marry. And as I've stated I've never met a self proclaimed feminist in person.
Mrs.Jellybean,
I'm not sure but your post sounds like you're eqating feminists =! married women. As several commentators have noted above a great many feminists are married or in committed relationships.
I would also ask, in your community, what percentage of the poor is made up of women? In American it is a large percentage.
I too am impressed by the civility in this discussion. :)
@Arachna, Actually, the part time job that I mentioned my mom had was she owned her own screen printing business (and in my opinion, owning your own business, especially as a woman, is pretty freaking empowering & amazing). Actually, the day she went into labor with my brother, she was printing tshirts and trying to get a huge order out. It's a very vivid memory for me because I was there helping out that day and remembered when she called the doctor. And as soon as my brother was 5 and was in school, she went back to work. At this point in time, my family's finances were a bit more secure and she didn't "need" to go back to work, but all the kids were in school and she knew she could help financially.
I think the important point here is, she did all these things because she chose to. We've sat down and had many heart to hearts about if she ever felt held back by us kids. I'd like to think that having known my mom for 28 years, I know her pretty well and 100% believe her when she says she is happy with the choices she made.
My opinion to any kind of gender limitations is to say bring them on! If someone is going to tell me I'm not going to exceed at something because I'm a woman and not a man, then screw them. LOL I'll show them up, but that's always been the attitude I've had. I'm the breadwinner between my DH and I, by a a lot. I have a college degree and my DH does not. And I love the idea that I can support my DH while he's in school, but when the time comes that we have children, I will 100% gladly set aside my career, which I have worked very hard for, to stay at home with my children. I'm just thankful that I have the ability to make this choice when so many women don't.
@ whitesonnet
But it is still my name. It is the changing that bugs me. It is the whole shift in public identity of a woman who marries that bugs me. Going from Miss to Mrs., from maiden name to married name. I want none of it.
I'm gonig to piggy back on Arachna for a moment. I think one of the problems of the popular concept of feminism is that it is for angry man-hating lesbians. In reality, it is more of a movement of white, middle class women. The perception is cartoonish, but the reality can be pernicious. The reality leads us to think of feminism as just being a reaction to the 1950s housewife model. Far from it.
In most communities across our country and the world, women do more work than men, receive fewer resources than men, and hold much less power than men. That trifecta is/should be the concern of modern feminism. Time after time, studies show that the entire community benefits when a woman is educated, receives adequate healthcare, and gains self-determination. At every income level in the US, for example, the number one predictor of a child's health, achievement in school, and eventual adult income level is the mother's education. Beats everything else in predicting which children will succeed.
So, when I hear about all of the strong women who hold communities and families together by sheer force of will, I have no doubt that those women are amazing. What I doubt is that they receive the respect, the support, the resources, that they absolutely deserve. The enemy of feminism isn't these women AT ALL (or shouldn't be). It is the cultural forces that turn women into human ATM machines, taking and taking and rarely investing back in.
My feminism pushes me to support traditional feminist institutions, like domestic violence and rape prevention centers. But it also pushes me to be involved in micro-lending organizations and Heifer International. Being pro reproductive justice for me requires that I support the right to choose here, but also support efforts to train women in midwifing in third world countries.
The strong mom and wife is the lynchpin of society; what I want is for her to receive the respect and power she deserves.
Hi! I know this thread is old, but I found it and read through it, and I wanted to offer up a book for you all to read (If you haven't read it already). It's well-researched, intelligently put, and quite an excellent read, in my opinion. It's called The Feminine Mistake: Are We Giving up Too Much?, by Leslie Bennetts. I don't 100% agree with every single thing she says (although I guess that is normal for anything), but she brings up extremely valid points about women, particularly mothers, in the work force and SAHMs. I think that all women should read it, as it really emphasizes making informed and deliberate choices in your life regarding what you are going to do with it. Sorry to bring up such an old thread, but I enjoyed reading everyone's comments and thought they would appreciate this book :)
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