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The love of my life has decided to break off our engagement citing personality and communication issues. We were friends for a year before dating, dated for two years and became engaged in February. Our wedding was to be next October.
I want some outside perspective as I'm way too closely related to the subject to look at it in the light that it deserves to be. We have been inseparable since almost the beginning. We started as riding partners and quickly became known as "him & her" wherever we would go. He states that he lost his identity somewhere along the way as we meshed into one. He has never acted as though he didn't love me and we would often (even until up to 24 hours before the break up) plan our awesome future together.
Since telling me on Wednesday that he no longer wanted to be with me, his friendliness towards me hasn't changed. We went out to a friends birthday party this weekend and it was the same old laughable, friendly us minus any hand holding or kissing. We own a home together and I will be taking over the mortgage. In doing so, I asked him a few key requests - transfer the stocks over to me (invested some of our house savings), write the passwords down to all of our Ebills, etc. He never did. He just acted as though we were still a couple - calling me on the way home from work to pick up milk, telling me he wasn't going to ride that night, idle chit chat, etc. I hoped that with his actions he was just really confused and had cold feet with pre wedding jitters. I have been ashamed at how weak I've become and have even engaged in bedroom activities with him since he broke everything off.
My colleagues have been amazing and true friends. I never grew up in a family where we talked about relationships or emotions. They were something we weren't supposed to have. Being raised like that, I have never in my 30+ years reached out to any females for close companionship as I never felt worthy of the time and effort put forth by others for me. Needless to say, I've been awed by how awesome these new friends are too me. They have shown me (even though I knew it) that I needed to kick him out of the house and that he was being selfish by staying there until his new apartment was ready. I couldn't start healing until he was physical gone.
I finally did it tonight. I had the "talk" where I told him I was trying to play nice so he had no ill feelings towards me but if he cared about me as a human being than he needed to leave. Every time I looked at him my heart broke over and over again and it was killing me. He said it was inconvenient for him to move twice (once to his parents two miles down the road and then again into his new apartment) but I told him that this living situation was no longer about him. He had made that decision Wednesday night. I'm glad I held firm as the previous me would have just given it so as to not have him hate me.
A few ugly words were said but later he messaged me to tell me that he was sorry and I had been right - this was after I called his parents and left a message on their phone apologizing for kicking him out at almost 10pm but that he was still being intimate with me and treated me like nothing had happened and it was killing me. His father and I have a pretty good relationship and have had heart to hearts in the past and while the phone to them might have been more than I needed to say, I felt like they deserved to know how their son was acting towards me as I'm sure he's painted a totally different picture. his father and I are actually meeting to talk tonight (Tuesday) about some things.
The FI (ex FI) is a very independent guy and although I've told him he is running away from some other issues (throwing the baby out with the bathwater) he needs to get some professional help to help him figure out things in life. He's a very quiet man and has gone along with pretty much everything I've ever asked although inside, he didn't want to but never verbalized those feelings. They then bottled up inside until this. I have seen nothing that he has cited as a deal breaker between us but I realize this is not my decision and I don't know what is really going on his brain so I can't actually feel what he feels.
Here's the question - I'm having a hard time deciding how to tell his father in tonight's meeting a few things that I believe are crucial to his son's healing. I realize that many sons have an infatuation with their mothers in a sexual way when they are adolescents. I get that. But this guy is in his mid 20's and likes to call out his mother's (and his aunts - all the same age as his mom) names sometimes while in the throes of passion. I'm into role playing as much as the next person but that has always been freaky - and not in a good way. He also told me how he would sneak into her closet and watch her dress, shower etc as a child and still had fantasy's about it now and would play with himself thinking about it.
Am I wrong to think these things are abnormal? Again, his father and I have a great relationship and have talked about some tough topics in the past but what I'm about to say to him could hurt the father/son relationship and that is not what I'm trying to do. I love this man and I want to see him get help for some obvious depression but the way it stands, I'll get the "boys will be boys" talk if I don't and he won't understand the full magnitude of the issues that are conflicting him. I love this family, I still want to get married, I still want to be a part of his life but I also love him enough to let him go. I just want him to get help. Sorry if this was TMI. I just needed some people that would not judge me that I know on a personal level.
Thanks
You are right, that's not normal. My FH has a pretty kinky side and I know he would think that wasn't right! I also don't think it's anything his father needs to know. Who exactly will it help? His father certainly won't want to hear it, as you say. It can do no good. If you think your ex needs help for it, tell HIM that. Don't tell anyone else. These are very intimate issues that you know about because you were going to marry this man. Now that you're not going to marry him, it's not up to you to decide who else needs to know about it. I really don't think discussing it with your ex FFIL will do anything except make you feel relieved that you've finally told someone.
On a different note...I wish you all the best in moving on with your life now that your engagement is over. It's a very hard situation I know and I think it's great you have good friends around you to support you as you begin the healing process.
I'm sorry this is happening! You seem to be handling quite well, though that's no concolation.
OK, so his unhealthy sexual issues with his mom is totally weird, IMO. And you said you have heard about boys having infatuations with their mothers in a sexual way... I have never, ever heard this! All I could think was "wow" when I read that. If my bf was saying his mom or aunt's name in bed, I think I would have had him see a psychologist a looong time ago. IMHO, it's just creepy, especially that he still thinks of her like that sometimes.
But do I think you should say anything to his dad? I'm not sure. I agree that he needs to get help for his problem, but having his ex-FI tell his family about his problem may be crossing the line a bit. I guess it just depends on your relationship with them, which seems pretty close. I know your intentions are to help him, so it just depends on the context of your relationship. I would be prepared for some backlash from him if you tell his father though; he may not be too happy with you.
I'm sorry about the situation you find yourself in. It must be such an emotional rollercoaster. I'm glad that you have found friends to help and guide you, and I hope you also find some comfort in the hive.
I must agree with mountainbride that his particular sexual issues are not something that you should discuss in detail with his father. I don't mean that you have to hide it, but no matter how close people are with their would have been inlaws, I don't think it's appropriate to share such intimate details in depth with them (especially when it has to do with other family members). I think there are ways that you can talk to him without revealing this much information. Your ex's issues are things that he has to deal with, and I'm not sure if bringing his father into the mix will really solve things with him. The thing you need to concentrate on now is getting yourself and your life in order.
I have to agree with mountain bride - it's not really your place to tell his dad the specifics. If anything, I would say you could tell him "While we've been together, there have been a few issues with intimacy that have concerned me. For the sake of his privacy I don't think it would be appropriate for me to share them with you, but I was hoping you could encourage him to get counseling regarding his sexual behavior."
It sounds like you are being extremely collected regarding this all - kudos to you for that! I'm so sorry to hear about this sad situation though :( and hope things continue to progress in a healthy manner for your sake. It sounds like you've got a great community right now, and I'm so glad for that!
I agree with what daydreamwanderer is saying, say that while you guys have been together there have been intimacy issues that you think a psychologist should see him for for sexual issues. If he presses you, just say that you feel they are incredibly inappropriate and that it would not be your place to reveal these. I'm glad to see you are kicking him out and moving forward. I can'jt believe how well you are handling this--very calm and understanding. Just be sure your nice attitude doesn't lead to him taking more advantage of you and/or sweet talking his way back into your life before he's received help. this is stuff that should've been taken care of a long time ago and not somethimg he'll be over overnight.
Thanks for the quick responses. His father (while not in the least bit religious) is best friends with a methodist minister. They log about 6000 miles a year riding bikes and have traveled the country together. I emailed his father this morning (after reading these posts) asking if the three of us could meet - dad, minister, myself as being the son's former future wife, there had been some alarming and concerning behavioral issues that he had shared with me that he needs support in helping fix. I will refuse to divulge the exact context of the issues and just leave it at that so they can deal with how they see fit.
I agree with you that I should not bring up specifics but just emphasize the important of some sexual counseling. With the dad's best friend there (that has thousands of hours worth of counseling experience), that is about as close as I can get to ensuring he gets the help he needs.
Again, I am not trying to get anyone in trouble here and I'm not being spiteful or seeking revenge in any way. I have accepted that he is moving on with his life and I will too. For 2010, I will learn to be a stronger person.
Thanks for all of your words of wisdom.
I think sometimes you can Say Something without saying anything at all. Frankly, I don't think a man in his 20's should be so dependent on his parents healing him. Maybe that sounds harsh - but it's time for him to be a man and stand on his own (ie go to a therapist!). His father should realize that too. That being said - I wouldn't go into the details of his "kinkiness" because it's not really about his sexual issues. It's about YOU now! It sounds to me like you are not comfortable with this aspect of his "desire" and nor should you be! I can't imagine anything more alienating in an intimate setting than someone doing that....I mean, it would be bad enough if he called out another womans name that he wasn't related to! SO don't you want to be with someone that makes you feel good and not weirded out????
I've also been in serious relationships with someone who I stayed with because I LOVED his family...but here's the thing - when push comes to shove it's just gonna be you two working things out on your own. Now I have an amazing fiance...and while I don't get along as well with his family it doesn't matter because when it's just us, I'm way happier.
I think you should encourage him to talk with his son. If he asks you specifics just be like "I think you should talk to him about that. It's not my place to say"
If someone came to me and told me about anything sexual about one of my daughters, you'd have to pick me up off the floor. Of all things we may have to discuss,THAT certainly should never be one of them. Intimate details are between the consenting couple, and there is absolutely nothing to be gained by sharing it with a parent,especially what you're suggesting as a VERY private matter. What can you possibly hope will be the outcome? Do you think his Father won't tell his Mother what you said? Do you think his family on learning this from you will ever look at him the same way? You're suggesting he's a sexual deviant and potentially having him labeled as such.
If your ex has already made arrangements to move in to an apartment,it doesn't sound like he needs anyone's help in healing. Healing from what? He broke it off with you and is moving on,whether or not you forced the issue. You may have some complicated financial situations for awhile,so will need to maintain some contact. Aside from that, and while it will be difficult, you really should have little to do or say either to him or about him.
I'm sorry your engagement is off,but this area is really nothing you should discuss with anyone but him.
Wow now you're having a meeting with the father AND the minister?
Hmm. I'm starting to think that you need to begin letting go a little. What do you think these meetings will help?
Just try not to divulge too much. On one hand, if you get too detailed, what makes you think they'll believe you? My mom would laugh if someone said certain things about me--she'd think they were being vindictive and lying about it.
Just remember, he let you go first. You have to let him go, too--so decide how long this "i'm going to help him" thing is going to last.
I'm pretty sure if my SO pulled a quickie "i'm leaving" on me, i'd dump him out of the house and figure if he hadn't gotten help already, he may not ever. I guess what i'm trying to say is that it sounds like you're possibly trying to fix him so that he can come back to you all bettter? is that a motive underneath this all?
I just wanted to send you some HUGS and say I am so sorry you're going through this. And as everyone else has said - don't tell his father any details - just tell him you think it would be wise for your ex to receive some sort of counseling and leave it at that.
Also - it unfortunately is a bit common, the whole mother/son issues you describe. I had to read "Oedipus" in college and that is where the "oedipus complex" comes from - a son who is infatuated with his mother. If you're interested, google it and you'll find a lot of information on it and the story (a greek fable).
I just wish you all the luck and love in the world and hope you can move past this. I am so very sorry you are dealing with this - but maybe it's better to learn now than to give more to a relationship where this could eventually become an even bigger problem. I know that's a very hard thing to hear - but I know that's the way I have come to feel about situations in life. Sometimes you just have to live, learn and move on. I used to be mad at ex's for how they left me - but in hindsight it was for the better before things got worse.
Good luck!
Maybe you're a little right ejs4y8.
The dad/son relationship that they have is one that I've never seen before. They spend more time together than anyone I've known in my whole life. They own a family business and have been inseparable since basically he was adopted at a young age. He tends to laugh off his sons issues with a "boys are boys" type thing and while I still care deeply for him, I do not want him back and would not take him back even if he told me it was all a big mistake before some serious counseling for BOTH of us. I'm looking forward to being single for awhile. Trust me. (no worries about the finances either - I make significantly more than FI did and can pay all the bills around here and am currently having the mortgage written in just my name)
I want him to get the help he needs for HIMSELF and I want his parents to stand by him. I just don't think they grasp the magnitude of some of his emotional problems.
I think you should cancel your meeting with his father and minister. It would be 100% wrong to go telling such personal issues (or even just telling someone that they exist)... especially if your ex-FI isn't even included in the meeting. Maybe your ex-FI is fine with his behavior. He's not in any danger.
Jacqi - am I understanding that you do not favor interventions? When behavior is self destructive, I'm just supposed to sit idly by? When is it appropriate to intervene with behaviors that will stunt his emotional and physical growth as a human being? If this was drug abuse, would you feel the same way or is just because it's sexual in nature? Curious, not argumentative.
I'm close with my mom, too, in a way that most women are not close with their moms, but my DH tellign my mom my sexual issues would be out of line.
Just tread lightly and think carefully about the phrasing. And, also, keep in mind his father may not want to hear this, too.
I didn't understand before that you thought this behavior was self-destructive. I guess I agree it could stunt his emotional growth, but how is it affecting him physically? For me to stage an intervention about anything, it would depend on the short and long term effects on the person's life. But I also believe people don't change unless they are ready to.
What would you have done if the relationship had not broken off?
I think you are totally justified in expressing concern about his drepression and mental well-being, I just wouldn't out him regarding the sexual behaviors. That could cause him to alienate himself from his family and minister.
Did you say he was adopted? At what age was he adopted because a lot of times issues with behaviors like he told you about (as a kid watching his mom and touching himself, etc) stem from sexual abuse.
I think that he needs help, that much is sure, but at this point other than confronting him there's not a whole lot in your court anymore. Really, the time to act was when he was calling out his mom's name and told you about his childhood acts and fantasies. If my FI did that I'd push him off me in a heartbeat. If he told me that story about his mom I would have sent him straight to counseling that day. That's in no way normal behavior and i worry what he could do to his own kids one day. (making THEM watch him, etc.)
I agree with PPs that going to his Dad about this is a terrible idea. Even if you don't specify, it's going to be a weird and awkward situation all around.
Talk to your now-ex-FI. He obviously has serious, serious issues that need to be worked through. Unfortunately, since you've put up with this for so long and not said anything previously, he may believe this behavior is perfectly fine. Many women would have probably booted him to the curb the first time any of this happened. He needs help, but involving his family is not going to help in this situation.
Good luck.
I'm very sorry about your FI calling off the wedding but I agree with Jacqi in saying you should cancel the meeting. I understand you want to get your EX FI help but he needs to want to help himself, and he's not in any danger (to himself or others) so I think you need to step back and distance yourself from the situation. I think if you go through with this you will ruin any chance of being friends with your ex and it seems like right now there is still a chance for a good friendship in the future. I think if you go through with this "intervention" then it will look like you are causing trouble and just being petty about the breakup. No matter how good your relationship with his dad was, that is his son that you are talking about and I'm sure any parent would take their child's side as opposed to the ex (IMO). Also if they are in business together do you really want to stir the pot and make it uncomfortable for the both of them to the point where the business would suffer?
I think you should back off and give space to your ex and his family in order to heal yourself and move on with your life. How would you feel if the situation was reversed? I'd be seeing red if my ex did something like that to me, and I know my parents would just think it was a jilted ex making things up to cause trouble.
Additionally, I agree with KLP that this could stem from early childhood sexual abuse (depending on when he was adopted and from what situation).
I don't think that jacqi is always saying that interventions are wrong...there are just some situations that don't call for interventions, and there are some people who shouldn't be involved in interventions. If he were a direct threat to himself or others, then I would be in favour to getting him direct help. However, while I would personally be very uncomfortable if my SO had these kinds of issues, I don't think it is the cause of significant concern. If he has depression issues or other types of self destructive behaviour then he should be refered to someone with that kind of expertise. However, I'm not sure if his issues with his female family members are really the cause of all of these depression issues?? Even so, telling his father and minister is not going to make him suddenly okay with talking about his issues, and it is certainly not going to help you to move on with your life. I think being too open is going to further embed you in his life and his family's life at a time when you need to be dealing with your own life.
I disagree with those who say he's not a threat to others. He has repeatedly shown sexually deviant behaviors and has never shown remorse. In fact, he's still fantasizing about watching his mom! Maybe this second he isn't a threat, but when he has his own kids? I am terrified to think of how he might be with them.
I do agree that staging an intervention with dad and minister at this stage is un-neccessary. It should have been done at the first sign of the issue, but the first step needs to be with him directly. unfortunately, since HE broke the engagement, it's going to take a lot of strength and patience to tell him that his behavior is not OK. The ball really isn't in your court anymore...
First off, I'm so sorry for everything you're going through.
I agree that you might want to rethink the meeting with the minister and your ex's dad, OP. It would be one thing to stage an "intervention" if you were still engaged to this man and going to marry him. But right now, what you need is distance from this guy. You're still trying to "save" him, but he's not yours to save anymore. It isn't your responsibility to fix his sexual problems, and if you go through with this I think it's only going to make it harder to do what you need to do and cut your former FI out of your life.
I completely agree with daydreamwanderer. Meet with his dad one last time to explain what's going on and to say goodbye. Mention that your FI has some intimacy issues and they might want to encourage him to get some counseling, but say no more than that, even if his dad asks. And then walk away with a clean conscience. You deserve better than this guy.
Have you ever tried discussing these issues with your ex-FI? If not, it seems a bit wrong to jump over him to discuss this with his father and minister. Even if you don't say what the problems are, simply saying there are problems period is going to cause them to question him and push for answers. And to say sexual problems is almost as bad as detailing what sexual problems you mean.
I would seriously consider meeting with his father and minister. Even though your motives are purely to help, they could easily be taken the wrong way since he left you. It would be different if you had ended the engagement with him because of these reasons. Would you be bringing this topic up with his father had he not ended the engagement?
I think it would be better to address this with your ex FI than his father. They won't be able to help him if he doesn't want to help himself.
I'm not sure that it's appropriate for us to link his fantasy about his mother with future sexual abuse of his own children....I think that seems a bit of a stretch and most of us are not qualified psychiatrists with professional background in this situation (not to mention that this is an online forum with limited information with no ability to directly discuss and counsel in detail the person in question....)
I completely agree with KLP2010. This behaviour is likely a result of sexual trauma at a young age. He absolutely does need help, and he probably won't get it on his own. I would honestly divulge as little as possible - but someone needs to know he needs help.
Also, how are YOU going to proceed with your life? Is this a situation where you will cut your losses and walk away, or are you going to try to maintain ties with this man and his family? I hope you consider your own psychological well-being in the process. There are too many people out there who can offer more.
I really think you are not being honest with yourself about your motivations.
Were you planning on this intervention before he broke it off? No, you thought it was wierd but were planning to just ignore it. Now that he has broken up with you, suddenly it is such a big deal that you need to get his dad and pastor involved. I think that some part of you wants to punish him for hurting you by embarrasing him.
He is no longer your fiance. Let him go. If he has mental issues, they are no longer your problem.
I am very sorry your relationship has ended. I know you must be hurting so much right now.
I am so sorry that you are going through this. That being said, I too would agree with previous poster's who would not take the issue to the father &/or minister, especially if it is an issue that you haven't discussed with your ex-FI previously. His father isn't going to fix the problem, only your ex FI can. Perhaps the minister can help down the road- if that is who your ex FI chooses to work with- it is not your decision to make.
I also agree with mmmtacos- right now you should be thinking about how you are going to put your life together, not his. I don't think you can achieve clarity on where things are going or not going until you take some time out for yourself. I can't begin to imagine how difficult the situation is, but you need to take care of yourself first.
You seem to be doing really well and have it all together, so good job for you for that!
As for his sexual issues, not normal. I have never known, or heard of, a man having those thoughs or yelling his mother's or aunts' names. My ex had a weird relationship with his mom and sister, but never to that point. I don't think that is healthy or normal, and that maybe he should get some professional help. I don't think you should want to be with someone like that either, but its not really my place to say.
I am really sorry that this is happening...but I think you are WAY overstepping. It just isn't your place. This is HIS dad and though you may have had a good realtionship with him...he is your FI dad...and it's just not your place. I would be so upset if my ex took it upon themselves to divulge personal information to my parents.
You are no longer with this person...so you need to just let it go. Don't talk to his dad...it just isn't right. You should focus on moving on and healing yourself.
Please don't put yourself in the middle of him and his parents. It just isn't your place...especially now that you are an ex
I think you should jus not meet with them. Beacuse even if you had a talk with them- what are his dad and the minister going to do? Your ex-Fi could just deny everything, refuse help and make you look like the crazy one. I would just walk away.
I'm a little concerned that even though you would have married him despite knowing these things, you want to tell his father and his minister now that he's called it off. It sounds more vengeful than like you're trying to help.
I think stepping back from this situation is the best idea. Cancel the meeting, and try to move forward in your life. It's awful that he ended things this way with no apparent reason, but it sounds like you'll be better off for it. And he'll be better off if he gets help, but it would be out of line for you to stage this intervention right now. There is not another person in danger right now and you'll be the one who comes out looking like the bad guy.
I'm sorry you're going through this. Try to be strong!
I don't think you should mention anything about this to his dad. If you and your FI were still together would you still say something? This is something that FI needs to deal with on his own (or with you...if you ever get back together). I feel like your involvment now may push him away from help rather than towards it.
((HUGS))
I'd never heard of this (other than in Oedipus) and had my bf read this too. He said it was definitely not normal behavior. I think that if you're close with his dad, you can tell him at least SOME of it. No need to go into details. But maybe you should tell your ex first, and suggest that he go to counseling. I know you're broken up, and don't owe him anything, but I understand that you still want what's best for him, and I think that's very honorable. I think he needs therapy, but I'm not a doc...
Sending you best wishes and renewed strength for 2010 :)
I totally agree with Spaniel. It's slightly alarming that you were fine with marrying him knowing these things, but now that he's breaking it off you're going to tell everyone about it. It sounds like vengence to me.
The best thing for you is to insist that he move out and move on with your life. Stop talking to his parents, at least for now. You need time to heal, stop worrying about him and his parents.
Spaniel: You said what I wanted to say, but I thought it would sound too harsh. The first time FI said his mom's name, or mentioned any fantasies, I would have booted him to the curb. That would have been a total dealbreaker for me.
I'm wondering why you didn't think it was dangerous before but you do now? No doubt it's weird and unhealthy but really, why now?
Why would you talk to someone else about it before him? That doesn't seem fair.
How old was he when he was adopted, was he older?
wow i am so sorry for you going through this. best of luck healing
I second (third?) hotchild and spaniel's response. I've been through some UUUUGHLY breakups, and you'll be glad not to have had this meeting. Plus- wonder if you got back together? Maybe everyone on the thread is gasping at that notion, but you WERE going to marry him... I wouldn't burn any bridges just yet by spilling all of his dirty laundry.
I wish you well, many hugs and thoughts.
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