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I think his reaction sends up a lot of red flags..he should want to do this to make you happy. I would be insulted if my SO used that comparison. IDK, I wouldn't feel so happy about his reaction.
@MsNarwhal: agreed!
@calamityeyes: I am very sorry that you are going through this pain. <hugs> I wish I had advice for you but I think you guys need to have a serious conversation and possibly couples therapy.
"he has no belief in forever or that marriage makes things any different - that our relationship will be just the same, and that I deserve to go through this with somebody that will be able to experience it in the same meaningful way."
That part is very concerning. If my husband had told me that while we were planning our wedding I would be running to counseling ASAP. Or reevaluating a lot of things. Have you told him how upset that makes you feel?
Okay... so HE was the one who wanted the wedding in the first place, now he wants to say that he's only going through it for you.. when you didn't even want it in the first place?? That doesn't even make sense. I'm sorry that you're going through this.. I don't even know what to say, but I know that I would be very VERY upset with him if it were me.
This worries me: "and to be doing it again when he has no belief in forever or that marriage makes things any different " ....Yet then he says.... " I deserve to go through this with somebody that will be able to experience it in the same meaningful way."
WHAT??
Please have an open and honest conversation with this man before you marry him. Make sure you are on the same page about EVERYTHNG!! I married the wrong man about 7years ago and I wish I would have taken the time to have an open and honest converstaion with my then FI. I probably would have realized we did not have the same thoughts/ideas on marriage.
I hope all works out ((hugs))
he has no belief in forever
- that our relationship will be just the same, and that I deserve to go through this with somebody that will be able to experience it in the same meaningful way.
Okay so you don't want people to tell you that this has anythign to do with commitment, however you stated that he does not believe in forever and that you deserve to go through a wedding with someone who feels the same.....
I'm so sorry that things have gone wonky and got mixed up in attitude and desires.
From what I read he perhaps wants a better future for you? or am i reading the post wrong?
I guess I can kind of see how you feel in this situation. My FI hasn't been married before, but he comes from divorced parents who have instilled in him every step of the way that marriage is pointless/you can never know what tomorrow will bring.
He knows that the marriage will be important to me, but he doesn't think that our relationship will be any different than it is now. He just doesn't think marriage is important like I do...but THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE DOESN'T THINK OUR RELATIONSHIP IS JUST AS IMPORTANT. Hopefully that's how your man feels too.
Sorry he is making a stink about the wedding though, at least mine's not doing that. It's more a feeling of apathy, not actual not wanting it.
re: not having anything to do with commitment - that he thinks it isn't the marriage that makes the commitment, that it is the relationship, and his desire to not have a wedding doesn't mean he doesn't want to be married.
re: not believing in forever - because of his divorce (which was a salt the earth kind of affair 8 years ago) he says he is aware that things change, that you can marry somebody and have it not work out
re: saying I deserve to go through this with somebody that would experience it the same way - he says that he says this because he had this first wedding, that he only has one in him that he can approach with the starry eyed optimism and hope. because he can't do that, we won't experience the same things from our wedding.
Yes. All very concerning. All very awful. And he is entirely freaked out about the ceremony taking place in front of many of the same people that were at his first wedding.
re: counseling - we've been before. we have an appointment tomorrow. we'll see.
Ohh kay- i get you on the whole commitment thing.
and the forever statements make sense for a people effected by divorce whether by parents or spouses.
Good luck with everything! Glad to hear about the counseling. follow your heart- you deserve the best!
@ MademoiselleL - that is what I think is going on + a big ceremony freakout, but it is very hurtful. I don't really know what to do. I need some reassurance from him, but it doesn't seem forthcoming.
I can kind of understand why someone wouldn't want to get up and do the whole thing in front of everyone again when it didn't work the first time. I think I might feel the same as him in his position. Maybe he did think he'd regret not having a wedding but changed his mind. Is there any way to change parts of the ceremony so that he would feel more comfortable? I'm actually considering modifying the ceremony because I don't believe anybody can truly promise until death do us part and 100 percent know they will be able to keep that promise. If nothing else, because the other person may not let them. I only want us to promise each other things that we know we can deliver.
@calamityeyes: I totally understand. I would maybe try a counsellor if he's open to it. Make it sound like it's more for you even than him; try not to make him defensive.
I don't really know what to suggest, but I do understand where you're coming from that it's not a committment issue like others suggest. Marriage is ingrained in our society but some people come from backgrounds that prevent them from caring that much about it. That doesn't mean they don't love you just as much and want to be with you for as long as it works out, which is hopefully forever.
Wish you the best!
@calamityeyes: I stood up in a friends wedding last year who had been engaged before. Her wedding was called off weeks before the date and the majority of the people who were at her shower and invited to the wedding the first time were there this time. She was mortified. Even though years had passed she still felt very embaressed and really she only went through it all again for her husbands sake, who is very traditional. She didn't want to rob him of his experience.
It sounds like your FI is feeling similarly, but it is just more direct with you. Maybe a little more jaded too. Hope you guys work through it, because from what you say it doesn't sound like he wants out. He is just opposed to the ritual of the wedding and the fanfare surrounding it.
Sweet girl I wish as many on here do that we could give you a hug. I can hear the pain in yours posts. I am very concerned for you. I have been married before and divorced twice. In going through counseling on my own I remember being asked did I ever see any signs. Looking back I saw many, I couldn't seem them at the time but they were so clear after wards. I am not saying that you two are not in love, I think you are. I'm not saying you shouldn't get married. But as someone who has gone through divorce I can tell you this, there is nothing and I mean nothing more painful than divorce. postponing a wedding or changing the plans all together is mild by comparison to the pain of divorce. Make sure this is the right thing AND the right time. If it is the right thing to do, it won't matter if it happens in October or any other month or year. Also remember that the wedding is only one day, the marriage is what is important. Our pastor told us the only thing he needs to know about our wedding is when and where. what he wants to get details about is the marriage, how do we resolve conflict, how to we compromise, how do we comunicate. These are all details that are so much more important than how many guests and what color brides maids dresses should we pick. this is a BIG decision it will affect you and possibly children for the of your lives. i wish you all the best.
My FI would be happy just going to the courthouse and I am the one who wants the big wedding, so in a way the wedding is more about me. He just wants to marry me and none of the rest really matters that much to him.
If THAT was the issue, I think you could work through it pretty easily, but him saying that he doesn't believe in marriage or forever and believes you will fail is something that will be harder to work on. FI had a few months of cold feet because almost every single marriage in his family has failed, and it scared him. To the core. I found Mrs. Ostrich's post on the subject of cold feet very helpful. I even read sections of it to my FI and we got through it because I supported him instead of fought with him over it. His occured right when we were about to sign our first contract for the wedding, and it was so final to him that he freaked out. I waited for three months to sign that contract until he was ready (freaking out the whole time that it would be GONE like half of the other venues we wanted, but I would have rather moved the wedding from when we wanted it than push him into something he doesn't want).
http://www.weddingbee.com/2011/04/28/cold-feet/
I really hope that you two can work through this, but if he still feels this way after a while, I would postpone the wedding until he believes differently.
Well, he came home with a wedding website made, and seems to think we'll just forget the whole freakout, as he talks about the wedding as if he had said nothing. Counseling rescheduled for next week due to my work. We'll see. Ugh.
Thanks Bees - I've been reading these boards for months, and so appreciate the understanding and advice and support. One of those things you can't tell family to avoid clouding FI in their eyes, unless becomes something to take action on - at least that is how I think. We'll see.
Well, I'm calling it off. There is simply too much distance between us on what marriage means. Better to cancel than marry by mistake.
@calamityeyes: If you are comfortable sharing, what happened between the other day and now to make you want to call it off? Stay strong - and best of luck. Only you know what is best for you and your child and it sounds like you are keeping your best interests in mind. You are absolutely correct when you state that marriage needs to be for the right reasons. It should be a partnership.
@calamityeyes: holy crap. i'm sorry. you're right though, it's better to call it off then get married in your current state. i hope all works out for you - we're here if you need us. <3
@calamityeyes - I'm so sorry you've had to go through this. You are absolutely right, that it's better to end this NOW rather than later. It sounds like you did the best thing... good luck to you!
We had a session with a counselor and it was clear that not only is he a massive mass of anxiety about having a wedding, he is also not seeing me clearly - he seems really "triggered" to the extent that he reacted to me and described my manner at the session in a way that was entirely contrary to what was happening - that I was being scornful and snarky and "uppity." The therapist did call him out on that - saying that he (therapist) was generally a good observer of emotional cues and manner, that he hadn't heard snark or scorn or "uppity" in what I was saying, how I was interacting with him. And while he (FI) wouldn't give a straight answer on whether or not he wanted to be married - it seems that is more about not wanting to end the relationship rather than wanting to get married. The wedding is tainted, regardless, by the way this has gone. I recognize his fears and realize that to some extent he wanted to wall off the wedding and ceremony etc. as if by doing that, pretending it didn't matter to him, he wouldn't be hurt as he was with first marriage. Ultimately, it seems like a long bout of magical thinking on my part - that pushing through would push us to a point where there was a breakthrough, would begin to collaborate, would find a shared meaning and celebration. It simply is not going to happen.
We have another session next week, but I've told him I can't marry him. He seems to be thinking postponement, but I think the magnitude of the unraveling is just hard to accept. I've had a lot longer to think about it, I suppose, as I've known this wasn't right for some time.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. But glad the magic glasses came off before the ceremony. Don't be too hard on yourself. My DH also went through a divorce and he had many issue that he had to work through. In my case, he did. But you never can tell when it's being supportive and understanding and when it's a red flag. One of my fave songs in one of my fave musicals is "There's a fine line between love and a waste of time". (Not that I think your relationship is a waste of time, but you get my point)
I hope you are getting the support you need--friends, family, ice cream and chocolate, lots of chocolate!
@calamityeyes: I agree with MMSVA - as unfortunate as it is, at least you are finding this out now before you walked down the aisle. It does sound as though you are taking the right steps to decide if this is even a relationship you want to be in. Longevity does not always a good relationship make (as hard as it is to admit).
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He says I can't know how it feels to have already stood in front of his friends and family and committed to his former wife, and to be doing it again when he has no belief in forever or that marriage makes things any different - that our relationship will be just the same, and that I deserve to go through this with somebody that will be able to experience it in the same meaningful way.
We ageed to the size of the wedding, the venue, etc. but he now has sticker shock and every suggestion of what he wants is the antithesis of wedding - invitations for a chlld's birthday party, he would rather have a potluck or a flash mob ceremony.
I didn't even want the wedding in the first place - just wanted to go get married and if we felt the need for a party, have one when we have a child. HE said we would regret it if we didn't. Once we decided to do it, I didn't want to do it half-assed. The time to object was months ago.
I think that none of this has anything to do with whether we are committed to the project of having a life together - to each day building that life. But he doesn't want the wedding. He'll go through it for me, and muster up something on the day of. I'm so sad about this.