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If it's all going to be shared money in the end, does it really matter who puts more towards which costs? It seems silly to "split" things like rent etc evenly- it's all the same money in the end!
That's the other thing. I've been thinking about postponing the wedding for a little bit because we have some other issues to work out...
I'm in the same boat, sorta. We are splitting the costs for the wedding, just to be fair on everything.
But my FI just said to me the other day, "I think it's time that we start pooling our funds together and start working from that to pay all our bills".
He makes twice as much as me, too and I've paid a lot for this wedding on top of my other bills.
It makes sense with you both becoming man and wife, you'll have to share everything else ( and even file taxes, together ), why not this? If anything, it'll help offset your costs and you don't want to go through your marriage as roommates with benefits.
We're trying to work out the whole "splitting" thing too. After we get married, he'll be making money, and I won't (besides a student-type job; I'm going back to school). We don't currently live together.
What I think we're going to do is have a joint account for things like rent, groceries, cell phone, water/electricity, internet/cable. The stuff we truly share. I do want to be able to pay "my half" of the rent. Then we will have separate accounts for personal things.
I think money is the hardest thing to deal with because there is going to be such a paradigm shift after marriage. All of sudden, what used to be "his" and "mine" is going to be "ours". Maybe we'll try and just ease into it slowly.
I don't think it's fair that you seem to pay for everything AND do all the work around the house. Just try to approach the topic sensitively and calmly.
i agree...once we are married we'll be sharing everything anyways. I'm just not 100% sure that will happen. It's silly that we dont share everything now...like household chores, errands,. I have always put more work and effort into the relationship and I guess now that we're planning a wedding, I realize that I really need to take a good look at the relationship and make a decision. It's not just about finances...
thanks for the input so far
stressedout,
I would recommend seeing a counselor, and maybe specifically a financial planner. Finances tend to be the biggest stressor in a marriage, and before you enter it, you want to address any issues beforehand, because it's harder (still possible, but harder) afterwards.
I don't know your full situation, but if you're thinking about postponing and can, explore that option.
Like BA, I tend to think that once you are married, any money between the two of you is shared. Weird example, but anytime I think about splitting things down the middle in a marriage, I am reminded of the scene in The Joy Luck Club movie, where the science of the numbers outweighed the love between them. And vows tend to be of the mind, "What's mine is yours and what's yours is mine." "I give all that I have and all that I will become."
There are couples that make the calculating and the "splitting" work, but I think it can be easier to look at two people working off joint income.
But this is why money is so sticky. As you are saying, money is earned. You are well-payed and the money you have feels like yours, and IS yours. But your fiance is in a job where his income is his income. He's contributing what he can, but he, like everyone has bills to pay. As long as your income levels are different, it's not going to be equal and it can't be equal. This is where counseling may help. With a financial planner, they can work with you to look at the overall picture - where your current expenses are, where your current savings are, and where you'd like to be with the income both you and FI generate. They can use tools and calculators to play with the numbers in a way that allows you freedom to earn and spend more wisely.
A couples' counselor may be able to explore the "equality" issues with the two of you and can help give strategies for more effective communication and partnership around money issues.
As it stands now, when is the wedding? And how long have you been living together with your joint bank account?
"Our Money"
We put all the money into the same pot. We both get a little bit of 'no questions asked' spending money each month.
All our bills (shared and presonal are OUR bills). We decided together our payment plan. For example when we got marriend I had a CC to pay off, he had one, I had one student loan, and he had two. They were all lumped into one pile and we've been ticking them off together. All that's left of our debts is 'his' 10k student loan. That doesn't mean he has to take personal money to pay it off. We pay it down with money from our pot. (It doesn't mean I begrudge him that loan either.)
I think couples really need to consider this whole yours, mine, and ours thing. For us - it really is OURS. So what if my retirement account is bigger than his and has my name on it. It's money we're going to use for OUR retirement.
This is def something that needs to be discussed prior to marriage. Each person should fully understand the others financial situation. No secrets. If one person is in signifcant debt (usually consumer debt) and the other has issues with it then maybe the wedding should be postponed until that person can get there finances under control.
A couple needs to have financial goals that are in line with each other. This is the image I always get when couples split money. One person spends their money, the other person saves. Well when partner B says to partner 1 - let's take a vacation and partner 1 say - um... um.... I don't have enough money saved. What do you do? I just don't understand how that works.
As far as your mention of 'other issues'. Sounds like postponing the wedding may be a good idea. You definitely want to make sure all 'issues' are resolved before making this lifelong commitment. Not sure your situation but it may be a good idea to sign up for some pre-marital (or just regular) counseling to make sure all angles are covered and you are ready for this!
Hope all goes well!!
stressedout,
Most relationships are not 50/50. My FI and I have had the same argument. One of the marriage books I would recommend is John Gottman's "Seven Principals of a Successful Marriage" (or something like that). He literally lists out every POSSIBLE household chore so that it can be assigned to someone. I'm slowly delegating things to FI, so that even though I cook and do most of the cleaning, he will vacuum and make the bed and scoop out the litterbox. If your FI doesn't know what you expect of him, he will never be able to do it.
Our relationship will NEVER be 50/50. FI is going to be a doctor and will be working very hard, but I do trust that he will put in the effort that he can and that I am the most important thing to him.
I agree with going to see a counselor or priest/minister or someone who will be impartial and give you some good advice.
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It's not a given that you'll share all of your money 100% when you get married, so it's not valid to say it will all be shared money in the end. Why not agree what expenses you'll share, how much you'll both contribute, and then use the joint account *only* for that. The rest of the money, you keep in your own account.
My FI currently and will continue to keep our money separate. We make many financial decisions together, but we know we are both not interested in answering to each other on personal expenditures. That also means that we *do* have to explicitly agree on how we'll split up joint expenses. Having to make that decision forces us to communicate better about money. We've agreed on how much to contribute to wedding expenses each and we're sticking to it. It's only fair that way.
Be very careful about your money without the protection of marriage laws. Marriage isn't just about love, it's about the combining and protection of assets, and until you have that protection, you have to look out for yourself.
We have a joint account that everything goes into.
Our household bills/mortgage/etc comes out of this account. These expenses are fairly consistent so they just come out automatically. Anything over and above the usual expenses we decide together on.
10% of the total goes to savings
10% goes to each of our bank accounts and we can use it to buy anything we want no questions asked.
It's pretty basic formula and seems to work for us. He makes more money now, but I will make more money in the long-term so we figured this was the "most fair"
What seems to be working for us is ours, yours and mine. We recently purchased a home together and opened a joint savings account to save for our down payment. After closing on the home we expanded to a joint checking account for our household expenses. We also both maintain our individual savings and checking accounts we had before becoming engaged.
Our incomes are not equal but we don't spend a lot of time keeping track of who pays what. I too think of the Joy Luck Club when I think about being so concerned about splitting.
It was more important for us to come to an understanding about how we wanted our finances to be as a couple. We are trying to identify how to accomplish our savings goals and create a budget where we can maintain our desired lifestyle. What works for some may not work for you, but you have to communicate.
I agree with jilian! All of our money goes into one place and comes out of one place! An earlier post had mentioned something about a roommate with benefits, and that's how I see it if you split. However, you both need to decide what works for you! I was never good with money, but my FI was worse! Now, I'm in charge of our money and bills. He agreed to this because he knew he couldn't trust himself to do it! Definitely figure out what works for the two of you! Seeing a financial planner would definitely help!
Good luck!
Heidi
What seems to be wrong with your system is that your FI pays his personal bills out of the joint account. I like a system where personal money is separate, and equal. In other words, first you figure out what it takes to pay the bills, and that gets covered. Then you figure out what is savings, and that gets covered. Then you have leisure spending - joint and personal, and that is what's left over. Ideally your personal leisure spending should be about equal, regardless of your relative incomes. Whether you accomplish this by pooling all the money and ten dividing, like legallyengaged, or via some other method is personal preference.
In our case, we are not planning on pooling our accounts. We are planning on dividing responsibility for bills, such that when they are all paid we each have about the same amount of money left. In our case that actually means that I will pay most bills associated with living (mortgage, utilities, household expenses) and he will pay college tuition... And leisure spending, which will be a little tight for a few years, will be a joint decision for things like vacation. We will each have an equal amount of money just to spend with no accountability.
The really important things are that you both realize that financial decisions have to be joint decisions, even if money is not pooled; that you each get some amount of money to spend in any way you want; and that you end up feeling the distribution of money is fair and equitable. Also, as you currently realize, your existing debt affects the balance, and the payoff of that debt probably needs to be treated as a joint expense - factored into the budget as a whole. He can't just decide that he wants to pay off his debt faster so you should pick up the financial slack - that needs to be a joint decision.
The issue of why you end up doing everything around the house is best treated as a separate issue. Housework also should be shared equitably, with each of you helping the other and being responsible together for all the work that needs to be done. Just being the woman certainly doesn't mean you should get stuck with all the work. Nor does being the one who actually cares that that the house is clean, or being the one who makes less money.
Seriously though - these two issues can make for a lot of unhappiness in your relationship if you don't get them solved. Whether they are "sensitive" issues or not for you FI, you need to talk them through and work out a solution. Putting it off won't make it any better.
Also I would add - the distinction of pre and post wedding is not very meaningful when it comes to debt. FI and I joke about my ring, as he paid cash for about 2/3 of it and put the rest on a card. So really, I end up helping to pay for any balance not paid off before we are married... Ditto expenses like the RD, his bachelor golf weekend, etc. Anything he is not paying cash for (and for me as well, although he seems to be more of the big ticket spender here). And even the stuff he does pay cash for, as that cash affects his ability to pay off existing debt. Really, from the time you get engaged, you need to view your spending as affecting each other and affecting your future together.
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Money is evil, jk. My fiance was heavily in debt from his former relationship (he took out personal loans after personal loans to support his ex gf through grad school at the time). After she graduated and was earning over 100k, she considered it money she earned leaving him paying back the loans himself (took him 3 years to pay back all the loans he took out after they broke up). Fiance was really in love with his ex and was together for 8 years and planned to marry her but didn't go through with it for that obvious reason. Sadly, another friend went through the same deal. Both relationship failed miserably.
I know the frustration of having to postpone a wedding because of fiancial reasons, but I also know the rewards of being able to afford a wedding you and your fiance are happy with. Its hard, but your fiance needs to be able to talk about his finance with you. What I found helps my fiance deal with his finance is him "taking care of it himself." Perhaps he is embarassed for having you be the bread winner. Seeing his account and your account side by side probably made him feel he's let you down?
As for him not chipping in for the housework, is he really traditional and thinks chores and doing things in and around the house is a woman's place? Its crazy for people to think that nowaday, but you'd be surprised how old fashion some guys are and need a wakeup call. my fiance was the same way from his upbring; mom and sister did all the house work and then ex gf did the same. We don't live together, but i noticed fiance would wait for things to be done for him when he comes over to dine with my family. I quickly had a talk letting him know what i expected of him. He didn't take it too well, but seeing my brothers and dad help around the house got him doing the same!
Good luck and I hope you and your fiance work out the rough edges before you get married.
This is what I have found works best for us. We have two joint checking accounts: one is the bill account and one is the spending account. Our paychecks both are direct deposited into the spending account. Twice a month, I have an automatic transfer into the bill account for the amount needed to pay bills (it always happens right after my paycheck is deposited so that the money is always there) and an automatic transfer into a joint savings account..
This way, there is always enough money to pay all of our bills in the bill account and we can both spend the money in the spending account on anything, including gas, food, and other personal stuff, and money always gets saved, but it's always OUR money, not mine and his.
We have seperate checking/savings accounts since I came out of school actually with money and he came out of his divorce in debt. Well, that's not the reason! My parents have seperate and that's just how I grew up. That being said, we do talk about who can pay what. He is still paying off school, so I told him I would take over his car payment since I have more money than he does at the moment. I'm also paying for most of the wedding expenses, but he's taking his share (DJ, entire honeymoon, rings!) so even though I have more individual items, his cost more. :)
As far as the household chores, we both do everything. If I know he's having a busy week at work, I pick up, cook, clean the bathrooms, etc. We have an agreement that whoever cooks doesn't clean up. It works well, but both of us tend to do both anyway. He actually got mad at me last night because he wanted to cook!
I'd say that if you have any doubts, go talk to someone. Even by yourself first. Get out what you think the problems are and make sure they are communicated. That is our biggest thing, for I'm notorious for saying "I'm fine" when I'm actually not. He's slowing making me adjust to actually saying "I'm annoyed with you" because as he has said repeatedly "I can't read your mind." And it feels so much better when it's all out there in the open. If there's something that's bothering you about your (potential) marriage and partner, get it out there. A wedding isn't going to fix those things. Good luck!
We also have a "ours, mine and yours" approach to our married finances. "Ours" is our joint checking and short and long-term savings accounts. We use these for most things. "Mine and yours" is our separate checking accounts, which we use for gifts for the other person, hobbies, and fun stuff.
Since we make different amounts of money, we base our accounts on a percentage, i.e. we each put 15% of our paycheck in our fun accounts per month.
My FI has so much pride that he wont even take the money my parents are offering up for the wedding! He says he doesnt take handouts and pays his own way!
My FI Insists on separate accounts for our personal bills!
BUT into our joint account we put a set amount in thats been averaged out into our joint for bills we have together and wedding stuff
lanny9 - youre funny - money IS evil!! heeheehee
i handle all the money - both our paychecks go into our account and he gets a $200 a week "allowance" for whatever he needs - gas, lunch, etc... he's pretty good about "asking" me if he can pull more money out - but he knows i want to buy another house in 5 years, so with the 2 weddings we're going to have and our normal bills, he's pretty good about sticking to the $200 he gets...
it wasnt always like this though - there were times when i wanted to literally slap the shiot out of him for blowing money on a new baseball bat or "forgetting" to tell me his team was playing in a tournament in phoenix and needed $500 for the weekend... but after alot of blood, sweat and tears, we found a system that worked for us...
we dont have separate accounts b/c it's all one income, albeit from 2 people - though that works for other couples... you guys have to find what works for you two...
my 2cents would be to sit and prioritize with him the top 5 most important goals you guys have (padding your IRA, saving for a house, saving for new car, college for future kids, etc)
then ask yourselves how to get to the next step to that goal. once the shared goals are "mapped out" it's easier for both people to be more accountable for their spending habits b/c there's a bigger picture, not just getting by day-to-day...
since there's a disproprtionate rate of income between you two - maybe it might be easier if you contribute the same percentage towards shared goals?? that way you're both contributing the same portion of your respective incomes??
talk about it, hash everything out.. if he has bad spending habits, call him out - it wont get better if you dont confront the situation and work together to resolve it!
good luck!!
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Actually that same percentage is a system I have used in the past - I lived with a man who made half as much money than I did. We shared things 2/3 and 1/3 (rent, utilities, etc). That doesn't leave you with the same amount of leisure spending, obviously. In the end it didn't matter - he really had a problem with the idea that I made more money than he did. There were other reasons we broke up, but that was a big one. Some guys are just so insecure that its a big problem for them.
Man my husband would LOVE it if I made more money then him. Especially if it meant he could retire tomorrow and go fishing everyday :)
I manage the money and every time I say "guess what honey" to start a conversation he replies "we can retire?" haha. He's a dreamer :)
Money is EVIL!! and it can be such a hot button for alot of people. I think it takes awhile to settle into a routine that works for you. Expect some pit falls along the way especially if you are used to being independent and spending your money your way. Because while getting new shoes everytime you land a new deal may be idea of appropriate spending your new hubby may find it lavish-- bring on the arguement.
I personally think using a percentage method is fair especially in the beginning when you are feeling out each others spending habits. That way everyone is contributing, everyone still has personal money and more importantly the bills are getting paid!
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I know there have been some posts about this before but I'm not sure if anyone has addressed this situation....
How do you handle finances when one makes twice as much as the other?
My FI and I live together and we've opened up a joint account. When he moved in, I put together a list of joint expenses and split it down the middle. I deposit more than my share (i pay all of my personal bills and expenses from my own account) and he deposits everything he makes. He ends up depositing more, but because he puts everything he makes in, he uses this account to pay he personal bills. Unfortunately, half of our joint expenses + his personal expense = more than he puts in (partly because he pays more than the minimum balances now).
This is a sensitive topic for him and normally, it wouldn't bother me but on top of putting more money into our account to cover all the costs, I am the only once contributing to our wedding savings now, I do all the work around in and around the house, and I have done all the wedding planning to date...
What would you do?