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I don’t have any children but from an outside view, it would seem a little selfish to ask that your children stay with you. I think as long as both of you are good parents that are capable of properly caring for your children then you both have the right to have your children and your children have the right to have both parents in their lives. I’m sure you have your reasons for wanting your children with you but I’m also pretty sure he has those same reasons and he has the same rights. I’m not trying to be harsh, but why couldn’t or shouldn’t they stay with him instead of you? Do you feel like you would care for them better? Why does it hurt your daughter to stay with her father? Is he a bad father? Does he not properly care for her?
I am divorced with two small children. Here in California, we could not contractually agree upon custody in a prenup (I had one for financial reasons). In fact, I spend every day of my life knowing that a judge can give my ex (who currently sees my kids 2-3 hours every other month) 50% custody of my kids (despite the fact he sold me custody in our divorce).
I wouldn't be marrying FI, if I didn't truly believe in my heart that he would do whatever was in our children's best interest. I certainly wouldn't entertain the thought of having more children with a man I couldn't trust with my children's mental, physical and emotional well being. My FI will eventually adopt my children and become their legal dad. I'm sure you understand the level of trust that requires.
This is such a tough, emotional issue. It is truly one that I don't think many people completely understand. I get the desire to have your daughter with you all of the time. I understand the nauseating reality of "time sharing." I get it.
You see, for me the issue is not the time sharing per say. I would love for the fathers to be involved in their kids lives every day. I am not saying that the kids should be with me during the week and never see their dad. I just think that they should have a home and stability. Obviously their father can pick them up from school, take them to sports, hang out with them at the house. After all they are both of our children and they need to be with both of us. I just hate how my daughter is never really stable for too long.. its comparable to living out of a suitcase. She keeps trying to send out roots but she is never there for too long. And I know that there is a schedule that hopefully she will get used to.. but it just breaks my heart for her... knowing that she will never know the comfort of going "home". Its always "daddys house' or 'mommys house'
@MrsNeutrino: Yeah, that is a tough situation. What is your custody arrangement? Weekends/Weekdays? Every other week? :( Poor kids.
@Lulusmom: Every-other-week. It is not something that I want any future children to have to deal with... It is so hard on her going back and forth like this.. If you can imagine, as her mother, seeing her just struggle... shes only 4 and feels guilty for everything. Its not normal. For instance... one of her teachers at pre-k decided to leave.. and she says "maybe its because we didn't listen enough" and everytime she leaves.. she asks if I am going to miss her because she has to go back to her daddy's house... and she has to go there because he misses her. It just rips my heart out for her. I couldn't do that to another child. Even if it is just a small chance, no one enters a marriage thinking they will get divorced. No one has children thinking they will have to go through a custody battle.
@MrsNeutrino: Hugs. I hate what custody battles do to kids. My son is 5 and my daughter is 4. My son "gets" it, but my daughter doesn't. She refers to my ex-husband as "that other dad."
A book that my kids both responded really well to was the Koko Bear book: http://www.amazon.com/Your-Fault-Koko-Bear-ebook/dp/B0053GPTCK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1327022206&sr=8-2 It is a little rudamentary in style, but the message resonnated so well with them.
How would your FI feel if you refused to have more children?
Ugh, that's sad for your daughter. To be honest though, it's very unrealistic to ask a man to agree to give up living with any future hypothetical children in the event that you leave. There are other arrangements, for example my husband gets his daughter every other weekend, long weekends, school breaks etc. This works well for everyone involved and allows SD to have "roots" at home, while treating time with dad as kind of special visits or vacations. She's also out here enough that she's totally comfortable sleeping here and has a few friends out here she has sleepovers with and stuff. It wouldn't be fair to a kid to monopolize their comfort and keep them in one place so much for stability that they only get to see their dads for quick dinners or baseball games.
I wouldn't want an agreement like this in place before having children because it gives on person all the power in the relationship. Not that you ever would, but there's always that possibility of an argument ending in "fine I'll leave and take the kids!"... which you could do at any time and your husband will have already signed away his rights.
I also don't know that any judge would take such a document into account. They consider who does the most day to day activities with the child like bathing and stuff, and also what is in the child's best interest which is usually having sufficient time with both parents. I don't know that an agreement you made before the kids were even born would hold up in family court.
@Lulusmom: WOW. I am buying that book right now. Thank you for the suggestion. I really really appreciate it. My daughter refers to her bio father as daddy (name) and FI as daddy babe lol. FI has been around since she was 1.. so she pretty much grew up knowing both of them. She called him babe at first.. because its what I call him.. but her dad had a problem with it.. (and even more of a problem now that she says daddy babe).. but she still does it.
@Moja Milosc: that actually sounds like the perfect arrangement.
As a child of divorced parents, I would just like to add that I absolutely do not believe children are hurt, in any way, by bouncing between homes. I think the pain and hurt are entirely the parents' projecting on their children (especially when the kids are young -- older kids might suffer but the young ones don't); the kids themselves are absolutely fine, assuming there isn't any abuse or blatant acrimony between parents.
I was 5 when my parents split, my sister was 8, and it was so not a problem in our lives. At all. Kids are resiliant and very readily adjust to whatever living situations they are in, whether or not adults think it is "normal" or ideal -- kids don't know the difference, unless the parents make a huge deal out of it and cause their children to believe this is sad.
It is so frustrating for me to see parents -- usually mothers -- agonising over how much their children are hurt by divorce and having multiple homes, when in fact the children are perfectly fine. Or more than fine. I am utterly grateful for my parents' divorce: I loved having two homes, and of course I was able to put down "roots" -- even across state borders! And now that I'm grown, I can see the huge benefits of having had good relationship role models (my father and stepmother showed me how marriage should work), which never would have happened without the divorce. Again, I'll add the caveat that this healthy view depends on how the parents interact with each other -- if you're constantly fighting or putting each other down in front of the kids, that might be harmful.
So, give yourself a break. It is very possible that your daughter is not at all torn apart by your divorce, and wil be a perfectly well-adjusted and settled child. Also, divorce is so common nowadays that she will almost certainly have lots of friends in the same situation. For children (at least young ones), divorce is normal, not a tragedy.
I agree with Jade33. However, I do have a cousin who is divorced, but still lives with her husband. This arrangement is only until their kids go off to college (which is fairly soon anyways). They sleep in separate rooms, but do the parenting together.
I have asked FI for a pre-nup. This is just in case anything ever happens to me. I've seen family friends who marry a second time after their wife passes away and their money and assets have been stolen by the second wife. The pre-nup is just to make sure that should anything happen to me, and should FI marry again, anything I bring into our marriage will not be his, but be passed directly to our children. He'll be the guardian over those assets until they come of age. I know that there are great step-mothers out there, but I also know that there are horrible ones. I don't want to put my children in a situation where that might happen to them.
If we were to divorce, although that's not likely to happen, we would share joint custody unless he was married to his work, and was already an absent father during our marriage. There is no way I would let my kids be raised by a nanny while they were at their father's. If he was going to be absent, I'd rather have them with me and have him be absent full-time than on half-time.
One option, that not many people consider but was mentioned to FI and I when talking to child counsellor about his son, is to let the KIDS keep the house...meaning they stay there permanently, and you and you ex move in and out depending on your schedules. I worked with a couple, who were divorced. They turned their basement into a suite for the ex husband, mom and kids lived upstairs, kids had free reign up and down. Now these 2 were incredibly amicable, good friends who should never have married, and ended up back being friends. I would assume very rare, but I personally love the idea of the parents shuffling and the kids staying one place.
I'm sorry it's been tough for your daughter. I feel for you. Divorce is difficult on everyone, especially the children. Kids can bounce back as long as they are aware that both parents love them and both play a part in their lives. I've been through divorce and I worried about my kids, but for the most part they've done well.
I'm not sure any state will allow you to put something a prenup in regards to future children. Usually, when you get a divorce, you are made aware by the courts that while the divorce itself is final, anything related to the children (custody, visitation, child support, etc) can be changed at any time for what is in the child's best interest.
@Shlieka: You shouldn't need an actual prenup for that, a will can cover it also, and if you have kids, you should have a will! My parents have the same stipulation in their will, only my stepdad gets to live/stay in the house as long as he wants, but if he sells, or another woman moves in, my half remains mine. She is only entitled to his half or part of.
@Take The Reins: I want it ironclad, because a few years ago a family friend passed away. Her husband ended up remarrying soon after, and I'm not even sure if it was a legal marriage. Her will had left a lot of stuff to her kids, but somehow the second wife ended up stealing most of it. He passed away soon after, and he was really regretful and remorseful to his children on his deathbed. To this day, we're still not sure how she managed to steal their assets.
instead of his kids getting what they were supposed to inherit, their inheritance went to her kids. They had only been together for a few months, and no one knew if they were really legally married or not, but her sons had pictures of a "wedding ceremony" and other stuff when they tried to bring them to court.
Divorce is a tough thing, and it's absolutely hard on children. However I feel that situation you mention is unfair to the child and your Fi. How would you feel if he got keep the kids and you were just allowed to visit? I think parents need time to keep and work on their bond with thier kids and visting I don't think would allow that to happen.
I will also note, of the people in my life who have dealt with this, the happiest ones are the ones who manage to keep it out of court. Parents who manage to put aside their differences before it's gets to that level are able to keep the control in their hands, when a court intervenes it makes everything much more rigid and difficult for everyone involved.
I'm also unsure if that is something you can put in a prenupt that would be enforceable later if anything were too happen.
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Out of curiousity, did you bees put anything in there about potiential children? The reason I am asking is because I have a daughter from a previous relationship and went through hell with custody. It is something I never want to do again and something I never want my child/future children to ever have to go through again. It was seriously the worst time in my life. My daughter now splits time between my place and her fathers and I know it hurts her. She just wants stability. I brought it up with my FI 2 nights ago about what would happen in the case that we were to get divorced and we have children. I told him that I would like them to stay with me and he said that he would like them to stay with him. Obviously we can't have both! He then goes on to say that they should split time between us. And my heart seriously started bleeding. I asked him if he couldn't see how hurt baby N was having this schedule... and asked him if he wanted out other children to have to go through the same thing and suffer because of us. I don't remember much else after that. But I really don't want to have any more children if , in the case that we get divorced, they will just suffer through our custody battle. And I know that it is me preparing for the worst.. but I have been there and I never want to go back.