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Future In law situation

posted 3 years ago in Family
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    Helper bee
    irishgirl    May 2, 2009   Minneapolis

    Ok Bees, I have a situation that I am at my wits end with and I need your advice. Brace yourself, this is going to be a long one....  

    I have been with my fiance for 2 1/2 years. We are getting married on May 2, 2009 (yikes 7 moths to go!).  I love him to death, but his family drives me insane! They are the most backward, uncommunicative family I have ever met!

    Now I moved into my fiance’s house in the middle of August, happy times right? Well maybe, if his 30 year old brother wasn’t living with us!!

    Now some background on this situation: 4 years ago my finace bought his current house. He really wanted to live in a certain area and may have bought a little too expensive of a house. He had just sold his condo and had a nice down payment of $30,000, but when it came down to it he did not have the money for the closing costs of the loan (which was $13,000. seems a little steep to me, but that is a different conversation). So, my fiance got the money fromhis brother. His brother was living with his parents at the time and my fiance saw this as a way to get the $$ he needed and get his brother out of his parents house. So, the money was borrowed, the house was bought and the brother moved in. For the first 3 years the brother paid $500 a month to live there. The mortgage cost $1700 a month and of course there are utilities too (which the brother felt free to control), but all he ever paid was $500 a month. And the brother never actually paid that money directly to my fiance. You see, my fiance’s dad is a painter and the brother works for him, so the dad would just pay the money to my fiance and deduct it from the brother’s check. And he never paid on time.

    So, my fiance had a friend move into the basement of the house. This friend paid $300 a month and most months that money saved my fiance because the brother’s part of the rent was never paid on time, sometimes not at all. About a year ago my fiance had a conversation with his brother about the $13,000 and how things were going to be changing. He offered to pay his brother $20,000. His brother turned it down. He said he considered the house a long term investment. So, my fiance told him not to pay $500 a month anymore. He was just going to deduct that rent money from the money owed.

    Now my fiance got engaged in March of this year and when we broke the news to his parents we did not get congratulations right away. We spent an hour talking about what would happen to the brother. I made mentionthen that I would be moving into the house in August because my lease was up and it would help us save money for the wedding.

    So, now it is October. I have been living in the house for over a month. I pay the utilities and my fiance pays the mortgage. The brother pays nothing. The other roomate moved out at the end of July, but there has been no mention of when the brother will move out. My fiance and I fight about it continually. He has had conversations about it with his parents, but nothing gets done or planned. No conversations are had directly with the brother. And he doesn’t see a need to move out. Why would he? He lives rent free! The living situation is awful. It’s like the cold war in our house. The brother hardly talks to us andwe hardly talk to him. He feels free to have his girlfriend stay over when ever he wants (The first 3 weeks that was 5 nights a week, but now she has her own place so it’s only 1 night a week).  And while he pays nothing live here,  he parks his car in the 2 stall garage. I park outside and it is October and we live in MN. I get up the earliest and have the longest (50 min) drive to work. We are going to have to ask him to park outside...

    I do not know how to approach the situation anymore. I feel uncomfortable in my own home and I just want a timeline for the brother to move out (preferrably before the wedding). But the family (my fiance included) seem fit to take their time to solve the problem! This is an issue people have known about since March and here we are with only 7 months before the wedding and we are no closer to anything being settled than we were 5 months ago.  Please Help! Advice needed before I explode!

     
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    Buzzing bee
    cannotwait    February 1, 2009   TX

    I don't have any advice, but does he really think he can live there after the wedding?  That is crazy!  Maybe see when he thinks he will move out, and if he doesn't have a date, you might have to be more aggressive.  Your FH should handle this, but it sounds like he isn't willing to do it.  Good luck!

     
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    Helper bee
    dreambml    4/12/08   Boston

    this guy is an idiot.  but your fiance needs to take control here.  For him to say loaning him the money is a long-term investment in the house, he is delusional.  I assume your brother said let me BORROW the money for the CLOSING COSTS...not want to go in on a house with me and both of our names will be on it.  I assume this brother still works?  You fiance needs to say you have until X date to find your own place, give hime back what remaining money he owes him (which sounds like nothing, really).  And if he doesn't find a place, back to the parents house he goes.  He has no legal claim to this house.  Too bad for him.  You also might have to give your fiance a kind of ultimatum.  Say, you are not happy, the living situation is not good, and ESPECIALLY not good for newlyweds.  Tell him that one of you has to move out.  It sounds like his whole family just "enables" this guy....he does what he wants, lives in his own little world, employed by his father, doesn't support himself....but regardless of anything, its his parents responsibility to take care of him, not your fiance's.  This guy needs to grow up!

     
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    Worker bee
    Bridediy    3/29/08   Chicago, IL

    You need to take a step back for a minute and look at this from another perspective.   Ultimatly what this boils down to is your fiance bought a house he couldnt afford and then had to ask his family bail him out and in exchange took in his (I assume) younger brother.  Was there any kind of agreement on when this money should be paid back or if partial ownership of the home was now his brother's?  If not that was again really poor planning on your finance's part because now his brother can in fact argue that either he partially owns the home or that he should be able to live there until the debt is paid off via rent which is now further supported by the agreement they made last year.

     You mention that you fiance had worked out with his brother last year that he would simply deduct the 500 a month that he was previously paying in rent from the 13,000 your fiance owes his brother.  That means that the brother will have 26 months before the bill is paid off in full.  It has only been about 12-13 months from what I can tell in your post.  That means frankly that your fiance and you should be prepared to have him in your home for another 14-13 months before you can either A) kick him out or B) ask for actual money from him again for rent.  But just to be clear he isnt infact then living rent free as you keep saying.  Your fiance just made a verbal binding contract with his brother for that 26 months so unfortunatly if the brother doesnt want to take the money (which why would he when for him he gets to live far cheaper than he would if he had rent and utilities on his own) then you are stuck with him just as if he had signed a lease.  He may be a jerk for doing it but he has every legal right to do so, crappy as it may be.

     As for him having his girlfriend over all the time, again he is now either a partial owner of the home you want him out of or a renter who is in fact paying a fee (by subtracting money off the debt your fiance owes) to live in the home and has the same rights to guests and parking spaces as you do unless you have something in his lease saying otherwise. 

    My advice would be at this point you need to:

    A) stop bringing the parents into this, they dont live with you, it's not their money, and you are all adults.  Plus it just means more angry people involved who don't need to be. 

    B) Sit down with your fiance and ask him what he wants to do and if he even wants his brother out and if so when does he expect it.  Then express to him your concerns in a calm manner and let him know you are looking forward to starting a life with just him and you soon and want this resolved before then. 

     C) Once you and your fiance are on the same page then schedule a time with his brother to sit down just the three of you and discuss things, your concerns, the future, and how to either get things evened out financially or to set some ground rules for you all to abide by.

    Ultimatly as mad as you are at the brother you need to realize this isn't a situation that he alone created and that your finance needs to be more careful about making better (more informed) financial decisions in the future since as you are finding out his decisions will affect both of you and your future happiness.

     Good Luck!

     
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    Buzzing bee
    chelseamorning    November 1, 2008   Washington, DC/Atlanta

    Let me make sure I have it right: The brother invested $13,000 into the house. Your FI tried to buy him out for $20,000, but the brother refused. So instead of the brother paying $500 a month in rent, your FI is counting the $500 against the $13,000 he borrowed from him. So in 2 years, 2 months ($13,000/$500 per month = 26 months) your FI will have paid off his debt to his brother. Ergo, the brother will no longer have any money invested in the house.

    Point this out to your FI and to his brother: The brother does not have to accept the lump $20,000 sum your FI offerred, but by living in the house rent free he is tacitly accepting installment payments on the money he is owed---and thus his investment in the house is disappearing fast. Unless his name is on the deed, if the brother wants to have some ongoing stake in the house, he needs to contribute ongoingly--and contribute on time, in full. Otherwise, his "long-term investment" isn't going to last more than 26 months from when he stopped paying the $500/month in rent---so at most you have a year left of this before legally the brother has no ground to stand on. By then your FI will have paid off his brother whether the brother likes it or not.

    I am not sure what is preventing you and your FI from agreeing on this, but one thing to do would be for you both to firmly discuss this with the brother, not the parents. Discuss that you want to be fair to his interests, but that it might be in the brother's best interest if you would just pay him off in full and he would move out so you could have the house to yourselves. Good luck.

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    Worker bee
    lily1223      

    I'd say a pretty convincing point would be to tell your fiance that you'd be much more comfortable walking around the house in slinky pjs if his brother wasn't there.  :]

     
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    Blushing bee
    wintersprincess    December 11, 2009   Metroit Detroit, MI

    My only advice would be just put all his crap out on the lawn and have HIM figure it out.

     
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    suzanno    7/12/08   Richland, WA

    Haha - I'm with winterprincess.  Seriously - your FI certainly needs to pay back his brother, one way or the other.  But unless there is some legal agreement on paper saying that he will pay him back by letting him live there, any court would agree that a cash payback plan would be reasonable.  I would figure out how much money you and FI and afford to pay FBIL each month on the debt FI owes, and then write out a letter explaining that repayment, and specifying the date you need him out of the house.  If he has no lease or other paperwork legally allowing him occupancy of the house, the legal owner (your FI) can kick him out and change the locks anytime, but to keep peace in the family he should be given adequate notice that on such-and-such a date he will no longer have access to the house.

    You need to decide, in order to seriously talk about this with your FI, whether or not this is a deal-breaker for you.  In other words, if your FI somehow isn't willing to do what it takes to get FBIL out of his house, even if it causes some hard feelings in his family, are you willing to move back out and tell him the actual marriage needs to be postponed indefinately until he gets this issue solved?  I would say that the answer is probably yes - if you know that this situation is going to cause the two of you to argue and be unhappy as long as it goes on.  It seems as if your FI doesn't really want to take a hard line with his brother, so even though that sort of ultimatum shouldn't be given lightly, maybe it is required.

    DH and I actually had a similar discussion before we moved in together, as he has two kids (18 and 20).  The 18-yr old went off to college this year, but the 20-yr old is going to community college and frankly doesn't have much ambition or idea of what she wants to do.  I told him that before we moved in together and got married, we needed agreement on how long it was acceptable for the kids to live at home and be supported by us.  I love his kids, but I have no intention of supporting them past the point where they should have a degree and a job, just because it's easier for them to hang out at home - and both of us have more than a little fear that it will be an issue with the 20-yr old. 

    If he had some idea that it was okay for the kids to live at home until they were 30, would I have called off the wedding?  Absolutely.  As you are finding, when you marry you get the whole package - including the family.  If he is going to be inclined to choose his family over you, even knowing how much this means to you, then I don't believe he is really ready to marry you.  After all, you're not asking for anything unreasonable.

    It may help to get some counseling, if the two of you have problems talking about this without getting upset.  Your pastor will probably do this for free, if you have a church.  It may also be worthwhile to find an arbitrator, or even to consult an attorney, about the best way to legally deal with the issue of getting his brother out of the house - such that if the brother decides to take him to court it is apparent that he's not just trying to get away with not paying back the money.  Good luck - this is a really hard situation.  But I think it will actually be good for your relationship to solve this together, and hopefully it will bring you closer together.

     
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    Newbee
    beans654321    11.08.08  

    You guys should probably sell the place and find a new place to keep the peace.  There's no easy way to not get into family politics on this one. 

     It sounds like the brother is on title if your fiance offered to give him $20k b/c you wouldn't have to do that otherwise. 

     Pick a place closer to your work and use that as the excuse. 

     
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    Helper bee
    irishgirl    May 2, 2009   Minneapolis

    Well, just some other little tidbits of info to add to this.

     1. I do not consider the brother a part owner of this house. He paid $500 a month for 3 years. The mortgage was $1700 and utilities are about $300 a month. So he never paid half of anything! And techinically he paid money towards the closing costs, not the actual house. He doesn't have a leg to stand on in court, his name is on nothing.

    2. He's a huge mooch. Not only does he not pay utilities, once he ordered $60 worth of porn on the cablebill and never even said anything about it. 

    3. We can't sell the house now. Shouldn't have to explain this one.

    4. We can't pay him back right now, we have a wedding to pay for. Personally, I don't think we owe him anytihng.  

    5. The brother never agreed to stop rent payment in order pay down the loan. The dad just stopped paying my fiance the money.  

     
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    irishgirl    May 2, 2009   Minneapolis

    Oh, and we have talked about this issue with a deacon, during marriage prep. The deacon told us to set a timeline, which my fiance has yet to talk to his brother about.

     
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    Helper bee
    irishgirl    May 2, 2009   Minneapolis

    And one more thing, no matter what, the brother will get his original $13,000 investment back. So the whole deducting the rent thing is stupid and basically my fiance lied to me about that just to get me off his back. He just has the not paying rent thing to use in case his brother feels he is owed more than the $13,000.

     
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    LittleBear    June 28, 2009   Chicago/beach wedding in NC

    Why are the parents so deeply involved? Is there some reason you and FI are "working" through the parents on this situation? Why does everyone seem to feel they cannot talk to the brother about this and have to do everything behind his back?
    Not to be mean, but is there something wrong with the brother? Does he not get that he will have to be gone by the wedding day?

     
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    Blushing bee
    elle1009    September 19, 2009  

    Ok, how can I say this nicely??? Your FI needs to throw his brother out.  I am sure that his parents will take him in.  If for whatever reason, his brother is on the deed, sell the house, give him his money and move somewhere else WITHOUT him.  What is up with that family? In my opinion, your FI has to make a decision about which is more important to him and you should have a very serious talk with him about that.  That is just ridiculous and ordering porn in someone else's house - what a huge loser!

     
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    Worker bee
    Bridediy    3/29/08   Chicago, IL

    Ok so let me get this straight.  Your fiance borrowed 13k from either his parents or his brother (still cant figure out who), and as you mentioned above your fiance agreed last year to just deduct the money for rent from the money the brother owes since he had stopped paying rent, and as you say you guys couldnt pay him back the money right now because of the wedding.  

    SO based on that agreement dont you see a problem with the fact that you still owe him right around 6 or 7k and dont plan to pay him back now to get him to move out and no longer want him in the house?  You are essentially saying "Get out sorry you loaned us 13k but for your money you will only get 6k's worth of the money back."

      It doesnt matter if he was paying half the bills or not in the time he was living there if you set the rent at X but it doesnt cover your costs that is no one's fault but your own or in this case your fiance's for not properly taking into account the costs you would have.  It would be like me moving into an apartment, signing a lease for 2 years (in this case a verbal agreement) and then the landlord coming back 3 months later and saying "hey I decided to kick you out because I didnt price the apartment high enough in the first place."   To me that is a problem and guess what a judge will say the same thing.  Yes there may be nothing on paper but oral contracts or the appearnce of an oral contract are binding (ie when your finance started taking money off the debt in lieu of actual rent payments he tactly agreed to the arrangement).  So again it doesnt matter how angry you are or how you feel about it at the end of the day you still owe him 6 or 7k so either pony up the cash or stop complaining cause he has every LEGAL (maybe not moral) right to be there. 

     Again it may be a jerky thing to do but people are sometimes in fact just jerks and clearly he has already demonstrated that he is by his prior actions.  As for your fiance not being willing to take this on, my guess is he is just trying to salvage his relationship with his brother and his parents so again take my advice from my prior post and have a calm talk with him to find out why he hasnt been willing to do anything up this point.

     
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    irishgirl    May 2, 2009   Minneapolis

    "Why are the parents so deeply involved? Is there some reason you and FI are "working" through the parents on this situation? Why does everyone seem to feel they cannot talk to the brother about this and have to do everything behind his back?
    Not to be mean, but is there something wrong with the brother? Does he not get that he will have to be gone by the wedding day?"

    I don't get why we have to have the parents involved either.  Basically I think it's because the brother has never made any life decisions on his own. The guy is 30 and he has no responsibility in life. No rent, no utilities and I even think his dad pays for the car insurance. He is going to tech school part time. *Note: this is his second time in school. Apparently he went to tech school years ago for auto body, got a job at a shop, but quit after a week because he couldn't take orders from people. 

    I personally would love to talk to the brother and have pointed out many times to my fiance the unfariness of the situation to the brother. You are right, we should be talking to the brother. The family is messed up, what can I say. They have enabled the brother to be the loser he is. He doesn't have a clue how to live a normal life, therefore he would not know to move out now!

    And you are not the first to ask if there is something wrong with him. I've told this story before to people and they have asked if he is special needs! Nope, just a 30 year old kid.

    SO based on that agreement dont you see a problem with the fact that you still owe him right around 6 or 7k and dont plan to pay him back now to get him to move out and no longer want him in the house?  You are essentially saying "Get out sorry you loaned us 13k but for your money you will only get 6k's worth of the money back."

    Wow! If it's really that simple you make me sound so mean! Bottom line, I want my privacy. It's hard enough to learn to live with my fiance, but to learn to live with my finace and his brother is even tougher. Of course we would pay him the money that is owed to him. I would not just kick him out without an agreement to pay him back the money.

    This thing is just so complicated. He relies on everyone to support him. I did not sign on for that. Right now he has no financial responsibility on life. This guy should have a boat load of money saved right? Wrong. He has nothing. If he had made an investment in the stock market it would be gone right now. If he had contributed fairly in the house he woul dhave earned a little money, but no he wants the monteary benefit of owning a home without actually owning one. I raelly don't think you get how he uses everyone. He wastes electricity, he will eat my food and he feels like everyone owes him.

    I don't know whether I should hate him or feel  sorry for him. His family has enabled him. He doesn't know any differnce.

    I have had numerous talks with my fiance about this. I think he is afraid of the whole situation. He sees how his father and his uncle do not get along and he doesn't want that to happen to him and his brother. He also avoids conflict at all costs. The family in general is noncommunicative.

    I get that the brother deserves money (how much is debateable) but we also deserve the chance to start a life together without supporting his brother.  

     

     
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    Helper bee
    irishgirl    May 2, 2009   Minneapolis

    So again it doesnt matter how angry you are or how you feel about it at the end of the day you still owe him 6 or 7k so either pony up the cash or stop complaining cause he has every LEGAL (maybe not moral) right to be there

    He does not have a legal right to the house at all. To his money yes, but not the house. 

    And I will state again. No one really agreed to the not paying the rent thing....the father stopped paying my fiance. I doubt that the brother knows that there is no rent money being paid. 

     
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    Worker bee
    alicia-s    5/29/2010  

    You said that his brother paid $13,000 for the closing costs? Do you know if he signed a gift affidavit? If he didn't, then the brother could sue your fiancee claiming he still owes him the money. Since there was no paperwork, it can get really messy.

    I may be unpopular for saying something, but I would tread lightly. Your fiancee got himself into this situation and he needs to get himself out of it. And he needs to figure out the best way to do it, because especially with families, its easy to get hurt feelings. Him not kicking his brother out doesn't mean he doesn't love you, its just that there are two sides that are playing tug of war and he's stuck in the middle. I think the best thing you can do is show that you're on his side, and youre looking out for his best interest, and perhaps that will give him the courage to confront his brother and figure out a solution that works best for all of you.

     
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    irishgirl    May 2, 2009   Minneapolis

    You said that his brother paid $13,000 for the closing costs? Do you know if he signed a gift affidavit?

    I think the best thing you can do is show that you're on his side, and youre looking out for his best interest, and perhaps that will give him the courage to confront his brother and figure out a solution that works best for all of you.

     

    There was a gift affidavit signed.  And I would love to find a solution. My problem is that no one is doing that. It's like a freaking cold war. Not one conversation has been had with the brother. All I want is a timeline so I know there is an end in sight. There is no end now. For all I know, the brother could plan to live there forever. 

    I never said the answer was to kick the brother out. I never said we wouldn't pay him. What I want is to be fair to everyone, me included. All I do is have the same conversation over and over with my fiance "We need to figure out what to do about this situation" All I ever get is "I am working on it" all that ever happens is discussions with the parents. He doesn't want me to approach the subject with any of his family, but I would just love to ask the brother what his plans are. 

     
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    mrsgarcia09    May 2009   Boston

    I am in a similar fustrating situation. My fiance's family sounds the same way. My fiance has a brother who stayed with us for a couple months, gave us no money, billed collect calls to our phone, and ordered porn on t.v. And when I said something I was given 50 dollars for it. While he was here (he has 4 kids and a wife) he was talking to other women. Was trying to bring them over ( i made them leave) and him and my fiance would go out all night. It's annoying to come home everyday from work and wake up every morning to someone sleeping on your couch, eating all your food, and watching t.v. all day. My fiance's family is not the only problem. Its my family as well. I moved into one of my dad's apartments to save money (being a single parent at the time) and the house must have come with a open door policy that I was unaware of. My brother as well (who hasn't had a job in years) basically stays at my house almost every night. Brings his friends over to hang out. They eat and drink everything, don't contribute any money for anything and no matter how much I ask for privacy, he'll leave (he "lives" with my parents) for a couple of days and then it starts all over again. I wished I never moved here. My fiance loves company and although he wants privacy too all the company doesn't bother him as much. I understand my brother likes hanging out with my fiance but I didn't realize my relationship was going to bring so much attention. I am really tired of it, but can't afford to move even with two incomes. My brother loaned me 500 a couple months ago, but for the past year I have basically been his supplier of a home, food, booze, and entertainment. I do intend on paying him back but I can't when him and his friends come over all the time looking for food and booze.

     
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    feathers      

    How about having a conversation with the parents, explain your feelings and get them on board with a solution (you and your FI need to agree on one first). Then have a conversation with the brother and the parents together with the agreed solution.  It doesn't sound like you are going to be able to do this without their help. 

    A possible solution:  Get him back in with the parents.  They are so involved, let them deal with him.  If not, maybe agree on a timeline and in the interim let him live in the basement rent free.  That will get you some privacy at least.

     
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    irishgirl    May 2, 2009   Minneapolis

    A possible solution:  Get him back in with the parents.  They are so involved, let them deal with him.  If not, maybe agree on a timeline and in the interim let him live in the basement rent free.  That will get you some privacy at least.

     Ha!  I would love that, but I don't think they want him back either. They are the ones who orchestrated the whole situation of the brother loaning my fiance money and then them living together. My fiance has told me that he felt tricked into the situation. He didn't know how co-dependant his brother was.

     
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    tberry      

    I think your FI, FBIL and you should go to a counselor together. Each sit with the person individually then as a group. Even one meeting may help solve the issue.

     
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    suzanno    7/12/08   Richland, WA

    Basically, you and your FI need to agree on what you're going to do.  And I mean really agree - not decide on a solution that your FI never gets around to implementing, and not decide on a solution that leaves you pissed off all the time.

    I agree that the brother sounds impossible, but I also agree that he's not your problem!  But honestly, your FI doesn't sound a lot better.  He made himself dependent upon his family by asking for money that he couldn't pay back.  And now he can't or won't stand up to them, even when the cost of not doing so is making you very unhappy and damaging your relationship.

    Bottom line, your FI needs to realize that marrying you is choosing you as his family - and that if it comes to a position where he has to make a choice between you and his brother, he needs to choose you.  If he can't do that, he's not really ready to get married.

    It seems to me that if the money was a gift, and you have legal documentation of that, you (by which I mean you and your FI) tell the brother he has to move out by the end of the month.  Where he goes is not your problem.  There should be no negotiation with either him or the parents - you can just let them know the decision you have made.  At the end of the month, if he's still there, you wait until he leaves for school and have a locksmith come and change the locks.  Make sure you box up his stuff and ask where he wants it delivered, so you don't end up being accused of stealing his things.

    If the money is not a gift, your FI does owe him repayment.  Some kind of plan needs to be lined out - starting with what has already been paid in cash; what can be construed to have been paid in the form of a rent-free place to live, and then a plan for cash repayment of what remains.  If you do end up in court over this, the courts almost always rule for whichever side seems to have done the most work to come to a reasonable resolution to the problem.  Kicking him out and simply stating that you don't owe him anything, and not providing any rationale for that statement, won't get you anywhere with a judge.  A list of numbers, and a repayment plan if necessary, will go a long way to ensure that you don't end up with a judgement against.

    However - to come back to the main thing that bothers me - the problem is not only with your FBIL, but also with your FI.  If you and he can't work together to solve issues like this, and particularly if his response is to tell you half-truths, or make promises for action that he doesn't keep, you're setting yourself up for years of drama and misery if you go ahead and marry him.  Honestly, if I was you, I would pack up my things and move back out, and tell FI that he can forget about the wedding until he gets his family and living situation straightened out.  If he really loves you and wants to marry you, things will move pretty fast.  As things are, he gets you and he gets to not make too many waves in his family, and you are the one who comes off looking like a raving b*tch.  That's a bad situation all around.

     
    25.
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    156 posts
    Blushing bee
    MsJoe    October 11, 2009   Northern California

    irishgirl -

    This situation totally sucks especially since you are living there! Heres what I would do: talk to your fiance and give him an ultimatum. Tell him that you want the brother out before the wedding in like a few months from now. He should do whatever he has to do to get him out. If not, you move out and forget the wedding. I know you love him more than anything in the world but if he puts his brother first instead of you that is wrong. It will always be like that unless he does something about it. You are number one and will be his future wife. If he can't see that then you shouldn't marry this guy at all. This stuff happens believe me I know. I had a situation with the FMIL and I let my fiance know how I felt and thankfully he sided with me.

    Good luck!!

     
    26.
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    Worker bee
    Bridediy    3/29/08   Chicago, IL

    Well said Suzanno your last portion is exactly what I was thinking as well. As much as the opening poster may want the situation resolved it appears she is the only one willing to do anything about it and to me that doesnt say great things for her FI he needs to care that this bothers her and needs to step up and go to bat with his family instead of making her the bad guy in the situation. 

    Ultimatly you also need to decide are these people, people that you want in your life?  Because the reality of the situation is once you marry the FI they are now your family too like it or not.  Unless your fiance is going to cut ties you will always see them so try to end this mess as amicably as possible for all your sakes.  And believe me if your fiance wont stand up for you now it will only get worse as time goes on and when you guys have kids that adds a whole different dynamic with his parents that you then are stuck dealing with because he wont. 

     
    27.
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    Sugar bee
    suzanno    7/12/08   Richland, WA

    Absolutely!  And I know that it's not easy to put your foot down like this.  But in my situation, DH and I had a lot of discussions about family including kids.  I actually worked with him years and years ago, when he was married to his first wife, and his family (mostly his sister) treated her like crap.  I got to hear the stories way too often, about how they would go visit his family for the holidays and his ex would end up in tears, and his mom basically used the idea that if they didn't come he was depriving her of her grandkids to blackmail them into coming back again and again and putting up with his sister's crap.  That whole family dynamic is at least part of the reason his wife left him.  I used to tell him "Look, you have to control your own family, because there is no way she can do it if you won't." 

    Luckily he learned a lot from that - but since I had some inside information already, I made it clear when we started dating that none of that kind of thing was going to be acceptable to me - and that I expected him to work it out himself.  He had a couple of pretty stern talks with his sister, but we have actually had to escort her to the door on one occasion (loads of fun - his mom was in tears, but I was really proud of him because he just calmly told his mom that if she thought it was the right thing for him to stand by and allow his fiance to be treated badly she should go ahead and leave too). And after that I notice that generally when we visit his mom and brother, his sister is very, very busy somewhere else.  Which is just fine.

    But - bridediy and msjoe are right - if you don't stand up for yourself this time, and if your FI isn't capable of standing up to his family for you, it won't ever get any better.  Tell your FI you love him, and you're happy to help and support him through this problem, but the brother has got to go.  If he can't take any action, then start packing your stuff.  It won't be easy, but it will be better than years after year of the same problems that are making you so upset right now.

     

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