How about having a conversation with the parents, explain your feelings and get them on board with a solution (you and your FI need to agree on one first). Then have a conversation with the brother and the parents together with the agreed solution. It doesn't sound like you are going to be able to do this without their help.
A possible solution: Get him back in with the parents. They are so involved, let them deal with him. If not, maybe agree on a timeline and in the interim let him live in the basement rent free. That will get you some privacy at least.
A possible solution: Get him back in with the parents. They are so involved, let them deal with him. If not, maybe agree on a timeline and in the interim let him live in the basement rent free. That will get you some privacy at least.
Ha! I would love that, but I don't think they want him back either. They are the ones who orchestrated the whole situation of the brother loaning my fiance money and then them living together. My fiance has told me that he felt tricked into the situation. He didn't know how co-dependant his brother was.
I think your FI, FBIL and you should go to a counselor together. Each sit with the person individually then as a group. Even one meeting may help solve the issue.
Basically, you and your FI need to agree on what you're going to do. And I mean really agree - not decide on a solution that your FI never gets around to implementing, and not decide on a solution that leaves you pissed off all the time.
I agree that the brother sounds impossible, but I also agree that he's not your problem! But honestly, your FI doesn't sound a lot better. He made himself dependent upon his family by asking for money that he couldn't pay back. And now he can't or won't stand up to them, even when the cost of not doing so is making you very unhappy and damaging your relationship.
Bottom line, your FI needs to realize that marrying you is choosing you as his family - and that if it comes to a position where he has to make a choice between you and his brother, he needs to choose you. If he can't do that, he's not really ready to get married.
It seems to me that if the money was a gift, and you have legal documentation of that, you (by which I mean you and your FI) tell the brother he has to move out by the end of the month. Where he goes is not your problem. There should be no negotiation with either him or the parents - you can just let them know the decision you have made. At the end of the month, if he's still there, you wait until he leaves for school and have a locksmith come and change the locks. Make sure you box up his stuff and ask where he wants it delivered, so you don't end up being accused of stealing his things.
If the money is not a gift, your FI does owe him repayment. Some kind of plan needs to be lined out - starting with what has already been paid in cash; what can be construed to have been paid in the form of a rent-free place to live, and then a plan for cash repayment of what remains. If you do end up in court over this, the courts almost always rule for whichever side seems to have done the most work to come to a reasonable resolution to the problem. Kicking him out and simply stating that you don't owe him anything, and not providing any rationale for that statement, won't get you anywhere with a judge. A list of numbers, and a repayment plan if necessary, will go a long way to ensure that you don't end up with a judgement against.
However - to come back to the main thing that bothers me - the problem is not only with your FBIL, but also with your FI. If you and he can't work together to solve issues like this, and particularly if his response is to tell you half-truths, or make promises for action that he doesn't keep, you're setting yourself up for years of drama and misery if you go ahead and marry him. Honestly, if I was you, I would pack up my things and move back out, and tell FI that he can forget about the wedding until he gets his family and living situation straightened out. If he really loves you and wants to marry you, things will move pretty fast. As things are, he gets you and he gets to not make too many waves in his family, and you are the one who comes off looking like a raving b*tch. That's a bad situation all around.
This situation totally sucks especially since you are living there! Heres what I would do: talk to your fiance and give him an ultimatum. Tell him that you want the brother out before the wedding in like a few months from now. He should do whatever he has to do to get him out. If not, you move out and forget the wedding. I know you love him more than anything in the world but if he puts his brother first instead of you that is wrong. It will always be like that unless he does something about it. You are number one and will be his future wife. If he can't see that then you shouldn't marry this guy at all. This stuff happens believe me I know. I had a situation with the FMIL and I let my fiance know how I felt and thankfully he sided with me.
Well said Suzanno your last portion is exactly what I was thinking as well. As much as the opening poster may want the situation resolved it appears she is the only one willing to do anything about it and to me that doesnt say great things for her FI he needs to care that this bothers her and needs to step up and go to bat with his family instead of making her the bad guy in the situation.
Ultimatly you also need to decide are these people, people that you want in your life? Because the reality of the situation is once you marry the FI they are now your family too like it or not. Unless your fiance is going to cut ties you will always see them so try to end this mess as amicably as possible for all your sakes. And believe me if your fiance wont stand up for you now it will only get worse as time goes on and when you guys have kids that adds a whole different dynamic with his parents that you then are stuck dealing with because he wont.
Absolutely! And I know that it's not easy to put your foot down like this. But in my situation, DH and I had a lot of discussions about family including kids. I actually worked with him years and years ago, when he was married to his first wife, and his family (mostly his sister) treated her like crap. I got to hear the stories way too often, about how they would go visit his family for the holidays and his ex would end up in tears, and his mom basically used the idea that if they didn't come he was depriving her of her grandkids to blackmail them into coming back again and again and putting up with his sister's crap. That whole family dynamic is at least part of the reason his wife left him. I used to tell him "Look, you have to control your own family, because there is no way she can do it if you won't."
Luckily he learned a lot from that - but since I had some inside information already, I made it clear when we started dating that none of that kind of thing was going to be acceptable to me - and that I expected him to work it out himself. He had a couple of pretty stern talks with his sister, but we have actually had to escort her to the door on one occasion (loads of fun - his mom was in tears, but I was really proud of him because he just calmly told his mom that if she thought it was the right thing for him to stand by and allow his fiance to be treated badly she should go ahead and leave too). And after that I notice that generally when we visit his mom and brother, his sister is very, very busy somewhere else. Which is just fine.
But - bridediy and msjoe are right - if you don't stand up for yourself this time, and if your FI isn't capable of standing up to his family for you, it won't ever get any better. Tell your FI you love him, and you're happy to help and support him through this problem, but the brother has got to go. If he can't take any action, then start packing your stuff. It won't be easy, but it will be better than years after year of the same problems that are making you so upset right now.
How about having a conversation with the parents, explain your feelings and get them on board with a solution (you and your FI need to agree on one first). Then have a conversation with the brother and the parents together with the agreed solution. It doesn't sound like you are going to be able to do this without their help.
A possible solution: Get him back in with the parents. They are so involved, let them deal with him. If not, maybe agree on a timeline and in the interim let him live in the basement rent free. That will get you some privacy at least.
posted by feathers Wannabee: 1 posts 3 months agoA possible solution: Get him back in with the parents. They are so involved, let them deal with him. If not, maybe agree on a timeline and in the interim let him live in the basement rent free. That will get you some privacy at least.
Ha! I would love that, but I don't think they want him back either. They are the ones who orchestrated the whole situation of the brother loaning my fiance money and then them living together. My fiance has told me that he felt tricked into the situation. He didn't know how co-dependant his brother was.
posted by irishgirl Worker bee: 71 posts 3 months agoI think your FI, FBIL and you should go to a counselor together. Each sit with the person individually then as a group. Even one meeting may help solve the issue.
posted by tberry Helper bee: 473 posts 3 months agoBasically, you and your FI need to agree on what you're going to do. And I mean really agree - not decide on a solution that your FI never gets around to implementing, and not decide on a solution that leaves you pissed off all the time.
I agree that the brother sounds impossible, but I also agree that he's not your problem! But honestly, your FI doesn't sound a lot better. He made himself dependent upon his family by asking for money that he couldn't pay back. And now he can't or won't stand up to them, even when the cost of not doing so is making you very unhappy and damaging your relationship.
Bottom line, your FI needs to realize that marrying you is choosing you as his family - and that if it comes to a position where he has to make a choice between you and his brother, he needs to choose you. If he can't do that, he's not really ready to get married.
It seems to me that if the money was a gift, and you have legal documentation of that, you (by which I mean you and your FI) tell the brother he has to move out by the end of the month. Where he goes is not your problem. There should be no negotiation with either him or the parents - you can just let them know the decision you have made. At the end of the month, if he's still there, you wait until he leaves for school and have a locksmith come and change the locks. Make sure you box up his stuff and ask where he wants it delivered, so you don't end up being accused of stealing his things.
If the money is not a gift, your FI does owe him repayment. Some kind of plan needs to be lined out - starting with what has already been paid in cash; what can be construed to have been paid in the form of a rent-free place to live, and then a plan for cash repayment of what remains. If you do end up in court over this, the courts almost always rule for whichever side seems to have done the most work to come to a reasonable resolution to the problem. Kicking him out and simply stating that you don't owe him anything, and not providing any rationale for that statement, won't get you anywhere with a judge. A list of numbers, and a repayment plan if necessary, will go a long way to ensure that you don't end up with a judgement against.
However - to come back to the main thing that bothers me - the problem is not only with your FBIL, but also with your FI. If you and he can't work together to solve issues like this, and particularly if his response is to tell you half-truths, or make promises for action that he doesn't keep, you're setting yourself up for years of drama and misery if you go ahead and marry him. Honestly, if I was you, I would pack up my things and move back out, and tell FI that he can forget about the wedding until he gets his family and living situation straightened out. If he really loves you and wants to marry you, things will move pretty fast. As things are, he gets you and he gets to not make too many waves in his family, and you are the one who comes off looking like a raving b*tch. That's a bad situation all around.
posted by suzanno Bumble bee: 2,425 posts 3 months agoirishgirl -
This situation totally sucks especially since you are living there! Heres what I would do: talk to your fiance and give him an ultimatum. Tell him that you want the brother out before the wedding in like a few months from now. He should do whatever he has to do to get him out. If not, you move out and forget the wedding. I know you love him more than anything in the world but if he puts his brother first instead of you that is wrong. It will always be like that unless he does something about it. You are number one and will be his future wife. If he can't see that then you shouldn't marry this guy at all. This stuff happens believe me I know. I had a situation with the FMIL and I let my fiance know how I felt and thankfully he sided with me.
Good luck!!
posted by MsJoe Newbee: 38 posts 3 months agoWell said Suzanno your last portion is exactly what I was thinking as well. As much as the opening poster may want the situation resolved it appears she is the only one willing to do anything about it and to me that doesnt say great things for her FI he needs to care that this bothers her and needs to step up and go to bat with his family instead of making her the bad guy in the situation.
Ultimatly you also need to decide are these people, people that you want in your life? Because the reality of the situation is once you marry the FI they are now your family too like it or not. Unless your fiance is going to cut ties you will always see them so try to end this mess as amicably as possible for all your sakes. And believe me if your fiance wont stand up for you now it will only get worse as time goes on and when you guys have kids that adds a whole different dynamic with his parents that you then are stuck dealing with because he wont.
posted by Bridediy Worker bee: 76 posts 3 months agoAbsolutely! And I know that it's not easy to put your foot down like this. But in my situation, DH and I had a lot of discussions about family including kids. I actually worked with him years and years ago, when he was married to his first wife, and his family (mostly his sister) treated her like crap. I got to hear the stories way too often, about how they would go visit his family for the holidays and his ex would end up in tears, and his mom basically used the idea that if they didn't come he was depriving her of her grandkids to blackmail them into coming back again and again and putting up with his sister's crap. That whole family dynamic is at least part of the reason his wife left him. I used to tell him "Look, you have to control your own family, because there is no way she can do it if you won't."
Luckily he learned a lot from that - but since I had some inside information already, I made it clear when we started dating that none of that kind of thing was going to be acceptable to me - and that I expected him to work it out himself. He had a couple of pretty stern talks with his sister, but we have actually had to escort her to the door on one occasion (loads of fun - his mom was in tears, but I was really proud of him because he just calmly told his mom that if she thought it was the right thing for him to stand by and allow his fiance to be treated badly she should go ahead and leave too). And after that I notice that generally when we visit his mom and brother, his sister is very, very busy somewhere else. Which is just fine.
But - bridediy and msjoe are right - if you don't stand up for yourself this time, and if your FI isn't capable of standing up to his family for you, it won't ever get any better. Tell your FI you love him, and you're happy to help and support him through this problem, but the brother has got to go. If he can't take any action, then start packing your stuff. It won't be easy, but it will be better than years after year of the same problems that are making you so upset right now.
posted by suzanno Bumble bee: 2,425 posts 3 months ago