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I know very little about Jehovah's Witnesses, EXCEPT he wasn't lying when he said he couldn't go to the ceremony because of his religious beliefs or attend the parties. My friend's mother was a Jehovah's Witness when my friend was growing up, and she said her mom wouldn't even let her go to birthday parties, etc. as a kid. It really sucks, but please tell your FI not to be discouraged; the fact that his friend declined has nothing to do with the friendship.
Oh, I wasn't doubting the religious reasons, sorry that wasn't clear! I just wish there was a loophole or something. I know his friend was sincerely apologetic about it. Jon just always pictured his friend being a part of it, so it's hard for him to give up on that idea.
Can "Joe" still go to the reception? Since that won't be in the church (like you I am unfamilar with this faith)? You can still have him be a groomsmen, just won't be able to stand up in church. Maybe he can just meet you at the reception site for photos and walking in with the bridesmaid-or however you are going to be announced. Talk to Joe to see if you can find a way to incorporate him in, would he consider being a groomsman.
Wow, this is a sad situation. Is the other groomsman a JW? If not, I wouldn't worry too much about him turning your FI down.
Is there anyone else he wants standing with him? If not, don't worry.. we're having an uneven number, too, and that's ok! Good luck!
I agree with MsSassy. Since he said a civil ceremony would be okay, would he still be able to attend the reception? That way you could do pictures together and everything and he would just have to skip out on the actual ceremony part.
I don't know too much about Jehovah's Witnesses either (except I do remember the thing about b-day parties from elementary school) Maybe another bee could chime in on this...?
I feel so bad for your FI! I am sorry this has happened.
I am not an expert on Jehovah's Witnesses, but I work with a couple of ladies who are and have gone to school with a few. The basic reasoning (as far as I understand it) behind the no birthdays, etc is that their faith says that they should celebrate only God and that celebrating holidays, birthdays, etc places us above God. The Jehovah Witness faith is much more complex than that one thing, but it might help explain your FI's friend's declining of the invitation to be a groomsman. Unless his other college friend is also a Jehovah's Witness, that shouldn't be an issue.
My sister is a Jehovah's Witness. As it has been explained to me. They can ATTEND a church wedding but they will not read the prayers, hymns, sing, stand or kneel when it's called for, and there is ABSOLUTELY no participation in the ceremony itself. Most likely your FI's friend won't even be able to partake in the bachelor party but will DEFINATELY partake in the reception....
To Jehovah's it is genuinely about their devotion to God. It wont burn their ears off to hear the ceremony but they believe we all believe in false knowledge *reguardless of what religion you are* so they might even chuckle to themselves occasionally *my sister does this at weddings and funeral and other religious things - drives me crazy*
They celebrate weddings quite a bit though.. and anniversaries. Just no birthdays and holidays. They dont believe in superstition or rituals, so they will not partake in those either.
I honestly dont believe there is any way you will get this member into the bridal party without switching to a civil ceremony, but to be honest - it's not worth it to do that if a religious ceremony is important to you. My sister made it very clear - although she believes my religious is both silly and paganistic *I am Catholic - well, atleast I was at the time she told me that*, she would attend as my sister because she loves me... but that's it.
Meanwhile - Both FH and I are agnostic *it's been a lot of years* and our families consist of devout Catholics, Baptists, and Jehovahs and a buddist / agnostic or two... hope everyone's not blown away when we have a Celtic Handfasting lol
I know JW's are very strict, but there are several different sects lead by different individuals with varying opinions on issues like plural marriage, education, etc. It's very hard to understand all the rules. It's actually interesting to study - every time they were busted by the government a new leader would emerge and claim to have spoken to God and gotten a whole new set of religious rules that were very convenient for getting tax benefits.
But if that is part of his belief system, it doesn't matter what his religion says. And I like the idea of being an honorary groomsman, he can take part in the other events. My FI also took a very long time to ask his groomsman, almost 9 months into our engagement he hadn't gotten around to it still. Things change, people drop out and are added I wouldn't fixate too much on having an even number on each side.
Thanks for the advice ladies!
I'm going to let Jon cool off for a few days. I know logically, he realizes it's about Joe's dedication to his religious beliefs, not anything personal against us.
Then I'll try seeing if he'd be willing to sit silently through the ceremony (none of our bridal party will be up on the alter with us, except our MOH and BM who are both catholic). Our bridal party will be seated in the pews with everyone else, so it wouldn't be noticeable that a few aren't actively participating (I have a few agnostic bridesmaids). I know that that might not be possible, but I'd definitely love to have him at the reception if possible, and definitely in pictures.
Jon and I both survived 15+ years of Catholic school, and both come from very Catholic families, so a civil ceremony or catholic ceremony without communion aren't possibilities for us.
Oh, and I'm not fixated on having even numbers. I'm fine with me having 5 and him having 3 or 4 (I still think the other college friend will come through for us), but Jon is super traditional and stubborn and likes things even. I tried suggesting he ask his best girl friend and he freaked out on me saying he couldn't have a girl on his side, lol.
I'm crossing my fingers we can still find a way to honor and include Joe. :)
I really keep my fingers crossed for you...I hope the nonparticipation required will make it more possible for him... just say *well actually you have no participation / role in the wedding ceremony, just to sit with us at the headtable... Jon just couldn't imagine you NOT being there at all...*
That's definitely unfortunate, but understandable. I have a friend here at work who is a JW, and the only things she celebrates are weddings and births. By weddings, I mean weddings in her own church, not others - and they can have a reception or attend a reception, so hopefully your GM will be able to do at least that. She won't attend any other religious ceremony, so I think that might not work for your GM either.
Like you said, can he at least be around for pictures and whatnot? That would be a great way to still honor him, but he wouldn't have to participate in the ceremony and go against his religious beliefs.
I hope this works out for your and your FI.
My husband's family has two Jehova's witnesses. They attended the reception but not the wedding (Catholic.) You could just list him as "honorary groomsman" or something in the programs if he is not able to come - I wouldn't press the groomsman too much on this, it can become a sensitive issue since it is due to his religion that he is not participating.
I know what you mean about the even sides - I was obsessed with having even sides and did have them. BUT having seen our pictures with even sides and seen pictures of my friend's wedding which were uneven.... IT SERIOUSLY DOES NOT MATTER! They both look great! The important thing is to have people you care about on that day.
Awww...i feel so bad for him! Me and my FI got engaged last New Year's eve, and FI's best friend came to our party that evening! He was there when my FI proposed, so he was automatically asked to be the Best Man...well would'nt you know two weeks ago when my FI and the two groomsman went to get their measurements and pick out their tuxes, he didn't show up! He called just 2 days ago to say that he wasn't going to be able to be in the wedding!!! I feel sooo bad for my FI, he was crushed! As far as your FI goes, just reassure him that he will still have a good time with everyone, and it doesn't matter who is in the wedding party, but who is there to support you in your marriage. I would see if he could attend the reception, as hello said, don't press the groomsman issue. When it all boils down, your FI won't care as much about who was in his wedding party that day, as much as he will that that was the day he married you and started your life together. Best of Luck!
sorry so late to jump in.. but i'm sorta in the same boat and wanted to see how everyone was dealing with this sort of situation..
it really is a heart breaker when someone important to you cannot be part of one of the most important events of your life.. but we still have to be respectful of other's beliefs and try to understand where they are coming from..
for me & my FI its a little complicated.. he was raised as a jehovah's witness since he was about 18 and he did not celebrate anything outside of his religion. his mom is a devoted member to this day.. at 18, he told his mom that he couldn't do it anymore..
the main reason why we wanted to have a non-denominational ceremony is so that his mother would come and participate.. but when we talked to her about it, she said she couldn't.. this broke our hearts.. especially my FI's because we will be having a sand ceremony where the mothers pour sand first to symbolize the foundation of our marriage.. she said she will be there for the reception.. but the ceremony is more important for us.. :(
its really hard to the FI to deal with this.. we still try to ask her to come but.. i know her religion won't permit it.. :(
hopefully your FI will slowly see where his friend is coming from.. that its nothing personal.. deep down I know his friend would have loved to be part of the wedding..
Just a thought, but if symmetry is still important for your fiance, you can have get another groomsmen and include "Joe" in other parts, such as the following (we only have our brothers as groomsmen but have some really close guy friends who we wanted to include in festivities):
- Usher - I don't know if he can do that, but perhaps being the first point of contact at the ceremony
- MC - have him be the one introducing everyone and running the show (so to speak) at the reception
- Give a toast
Just a thought.
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FI and I got engaged last Christmas Eve, and of course I was excited to asked my bridesmaids right away. Originally, I had wanted 3 girls, but Jon (my FI) had 5 guys in mind that he wanted to ask, and he's pretty traditional and symmetry is important to him. So I decided on my five girls that I wanted to ask. I asked them all, and they all immediately said yes. So we started dress shopping and all that fun girly stuff. Jon didn't ask his guys right away, but I figured that was fine, since our wedding isn't until Oct. 2010. He told me he was planning on asking his 2 brothers, his best friend from the neighborhood, and his two friends from college. Amesome! Knowing he had the people picked out in his head, I didn't bring it up again until recently.
I've been working on our wedding website, and I really wanted to get the bridal party info up and finished. I had cute pics of me and my girls, and stories about how we met and how awesome they all are. i really wanted to get the same stuff up on Jon's guys too. The website info is on our STD's, which we're sending out soon, since all of our families are OOT. I asked him about a month ago if he had asked them yet. Around this time, his mom started asking him when he was going to ask his brothers too.
He got really upset with us and our nagging, and he confined in me that he was scared to asked them, since he was afraid that they would say no. I did my best to reassure him. We have a good relationship with his brothers, since one is 2 years older than us, and the other is 3 years younger than us. We go out together all the time, and have an awesome time. I knew his brothers already expected to be asked, since they've both been quizzing me about what they can do at the bachelor party, and wondering if they could plan an after party for us. Jon was also stressed about choosing a best man, since he thought it would be awkward to choose between his brothers. I told him he should just choose his best friend from the neighborhood, since they spend the most time together and have the most in common. He did end up choosing Carl (the best friend) as best man, and his brothers as groomsman last week, and everyone accepted. Yay!
So I thought that this big crisis had been averted and we were all happy. I had to babysit yesterday, so I was out of the house for most of the day. I came home to a totally distraught fiance. :( He finally heard back from one of his friends from college, let's call him "Joe". Joe sent him an email, saying he was thrilled to be asked, and totally honored to be considered, but that he unfortunately had to decline because of religious beliefs. He's a Jehovah's Witness, and apparently he can't participate in services in other houses of worship. We're having a big huge full Catholic Mass. Most of my bridesmaids aren't Catholic, and they're still willing to sit through the mass to support us, so it hadn't occurred to me that other people's religious beliefs would prevent them from attending. We obviously don't expect the non-Catholics to do the prayers or actively participate. We just want them to sit there respectfully and watch us get married, then have a blast at the reception.
I suggested that maybe Joe could just be an honorary groomsman, and maybe he could still participate in the bachelor activities and reception, but Jon is still really upset that he can't come to the ceremony. I'm also not even sure his religion will let him participate in the parties. I don't know too much about Jehovah Witnesses, and I'm trying to reserve my judgement, but I know they don't do birthday celebrations, so all wedding celebrations might be out. Joe had said that if we had a civil ceremony, he would be able to participate, but that's not an option for us.
Jon is totally heartbroken Joe won't be there, and now he's worried that the other college groomsman will decline too (haven't heard back from him yet) . :(
I don't know what to do. I feel awful that I nagged Jon so much about this, and now he's getting all this bad news. Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone have better knowledge of Jehovah's Witnesses to help us find a compromise?