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Weddingbee boards
Now that I think we got our budget figured out, we are hoping to put some cash back into our house.
We have a great room that currently has sheet laminate and carpet. You can't really see the pictures here (I was taking a picture of the recessed lighting we put in), but it helps give an idea of what the room is like.
We are also going to have an issue matching the color wood that you see on this back door. It has a lot of red/orange in it and I really love the look of a hickory (not dark, but night light either).
In this next picture you can just see the line where the vinyl meets the carpet... Right in the middle of the room!
We have a 75 pound dog that runs around in the house and we are hoping to have kids here. We also don't have a ton of money to do this with. Its about a 750 sq ft room that needs floor.
What type of floor do you think is best for us to get?
Hardwood:
Pros: Nice and adds value to the house
Cons: Has to be sealed, not mosture proof or recommended for the kitchen, lots of money
Engineered Hardwood:
Pros: Good price, real wood, pre-sealed
Cons: Limited lifetime, still can have moisture issues, can still be scratched
Laminate:
Pros: Cheap and easy to install, better with moisture, can replace later if needed
Cons: Doesn't add as much value to the house, not as pretty.
Any suggestions!
Okay, I'll speak first as an interior designer and then as a home owner. As a designer, yes, hardwood adds more value to your home and is gorgeous. As a home owner, we put engineered hardwood into our condo. Our cats scratched it to heck where they would "push off" at their favourite running spots (top and bottom of the stairs). Engineered hardwood can only be sanded and refinished once or twice. In our new house, we put down laminate. I love love love love love it. It's resilient, the price point is good, and heck, it's come a long way since it was first made! If you want to have a more pure hardwood look but want the durability of laminate, look at a company called Torly's. I swear you would NEVER know it's not real hardwood. Armstrong is also pretty good, but I prefer Torly's. That stuff is going ALL over my house when we renovate, it's worth the money!!!
I opted for laminate. I have lived in houses with all three and laminate is the easiest to take care of. Hardwood, to keep it looking nice requires a lot of upkeep. I have really nice laminate in my condo to the point that people think it is engineered hardwood flooring.
fyi though, laminate still traps mosture. That is why I opted to have tile for my entrance way, bathroom, kitchen and dinning room. I wouldn't recommend it for a kitchen or bathroom.
I have to say hardwood if your budget allows. Especially if you have dogs, they are easy to clean and easy to maintain and add a significant value to your house. Laminate, at least in the market in our area, doesn't sell as well and can hinder resale. Also if it isn't put down right it can bubble. We finished ripping up the laminate in our house last night and the hardwood floor guy will be coming on Friday to give us a quote.
I have both engineered hardwood and laminate in my home and I will say that the laminate can withstand the beating it takes from my daughter and my dog much better than the engineered hardwood can. However, I like the "look" of the engineered hardwood in larger rooms better. I think that laminate works best in smaller rooms (I did wood laminate in my daughter's room) and hardwood (engineered or not) works best for larger areas....at least for me.
To protect from moisture, they sell padding that you place underneath the wood or laminate that not only acts as soundproofing but traps moisture away from the flooring as well.
I'd also say real hardwood if you can do it. The previous owner of our condo put down engineered hardwoods, and the top veneer is not very thick (although they look beautiful). When they moved out, just before closing, they scratched the heck out of several boards (very deep gashes). We asked for and received a flooring credit to fix it. It turns out, however, that the gashes are too deep for those boards to be refinished and we'll have to replace them. This involves tearing up a bunch of neighboring boards around the scratched boards. It's a hassle and very pricey.
We decided on laminate, since we have a golden who loves to run in the house. We LOVE them. Like another poster said, laminate has come a long way, and many laminates look really really pretty!
@bakerella: Any suggestions for color or wood type? It doesn't look like there are any stores that sell Torly's here. I like that they offer the beveled edges. I think if we went with laminate, I would say that would be a must. I think its really gives the room a good rich look.
Given that you live in Florida, I would recommend engineered hardwood floors. Regular hardwood floors have real issues with moisture. Engineered hardwood look and feel exactly like hardwood and if you go with a high quality (thick wood top layer) then you will be able to resand as much as you'll need in the lifetime you live in the house. The amount of scratches on the floor will be the same for hardwood and engineered hardwood. The harder the wood, the more scratch resistant. I would recommend looking at the wood hardness scale (forget the exact name) to decide what wood to get. Resale will be very similar for hardwood and engineered hardwood... it's still wood.
I wouldn't recommend laminate. Mostly because of resale, but also because high quality laminate is almost as costly as hardwood... although it may be cheaper to install.
I hate my laminate hardwood floors. My husband and dog were playing chase in the living room (I know they shouldn't have) and knocked the lamp off the end table and it took out a chunk of the laminate. The maid also bumped the end table on the other side while working and off went the lamp and now I have a chunk out on that side. I have since removed the lamps.
Then I had moisture build up under the floor around a window. So the boards began warping. We had to replace those boards. We have since fixed the moisture problem too.
To me for as much money as we spent to put down hardwoods in the living room and dining room it makes me sick. I know that when we go to resale the house we'll have to do something about the two spots in the living room where the lamps fell. I now wish we would have done large tile. Or real hardwood floors because at least if they were real hardwoods then the scratches and such would just add character to the already aged wood. The dings in the laminate look terrible against perfect laminate.
Its really interesting that so many people either LOVE or HATE their laminate. I wonder if any of it has to do with the quality of the laminate? If we did laminate we would do something on the high end (8-10mm thick, beveled edges, embossed in register, and good padding below).
Hubby wants us to also look at real-hard wood floors. He thinks we may be able to find something just as cheap as the good laminates. The only way I would do real hardwood though is to do something really strong like hickory. I don't like the pattern of oak and its much softer.
My parents' dogs and the remodeling contractor have left huge gashes in their real hardwood floors (bamboo and oak). It was also horrible to refinish - we moved out for three days. Have you considered a floating floor? It's easier and cheaper to install (and replace) but I don't know if it works where there is moisture. Interestingly a friend who hates carpet and bought a house full of it says they are waiting to replace their carpet until their kids are old enough not to fall all the time (ie after baby learns to walk). I had tile in a rental house - it was great, especially for dogs. My parents put down travertine in the mudroom - pretty and easy to clean. New linoleums can be done as a floating floor and they're pretty. (in a modern way)
Unfortunately tile doesn't really fit the "style" of our house. Its a 1980s ranch style with lots of wood in it already. I grew up with 12" ceramic tile throughout my parents house. They still have the original tile from when their house was built in 1980. There are chips in it but still all there.
@caszos: Judging by your wall colour (although hard to tell based on photos some times), I wouldn't go with something like a cherry. There's too much red. I would go with something in a mid-brown range, like a walnut. I think would pick up on the fireplace, still blend well with your existing trim, and warm up your wall colour.
we JUST (as in, finished 3 days ago) putting in engineered wood. we couldn't afford hard woods, and the high-end laminate was just as expensive as solid wood (though would be cheaper to install). ive been told that laminate will gouge easily with animal nails, and is the lowest on ranking with moisture problems (i live in SC, we know moisture!lol). engineered flooring came in a price that was doable for us. plus it looks exactly like hardwood. the top layer IS hard wood. we floated our floors because we have particle board subfloor (you cant nail anything into particle board...so make sure you know what you have underneath that current flooring). engineered floors actually react BETTER to moisture problems that hard wood, due to the way its manufactured. you can get the thicker planks that allow for more refinishing throughout the years. most engineered floors have a 30 year warranty, as long as you install them properly. We are happy with our so far, and we have a 3 dogs running around, no scratches so far!
We have hardwood mahogany in the living room, hallways, kitchen, study (everywhere except the bedrooms/bathrooms and if I had to do it over again I would have requested the mahogany be put into the bedrooms before closing but hindsight and all that jazz). We have three dogs (great dane, german shepherd, and chihuahua). Our house was built in 2003 with those floors and they are still immaculate except for one board where the dogs water bowl spilled and we were out of town for days so we came home to a water spot. but as I said it was literally on one board and we had scrap pieces left over from a previous own (who had toddlers btw) so it was an easy, cheap fix. I love our hardwoods. I don't like laminate because of the sound it makes when you walk on it/hear heels on it/the dogs nails - to me even if it looks great you can still tell it's laminate because of that sound. And I don't know anything about engineered hardwood so I have no opinion there.
So after all that, my vote is for hardwood. lol
We put laminate pretty much throughout... I LOVE IT! Easy to care for and maintain!
We have a 53 lb standard poodle who isn't a fan of slippery floors... (goes back to his puppy mill days). He does fine most of the time, but occasionally FREAKS himself out and tries to use his claws instead of the pads. i.e. HE SCRATCHES HARD! They still look perfect!
When my mom redid their house they got real hardwood floors - not engineered. I wish I could remember where they bought them but they were a good price and they are super durable. For example they ended up using them as their kitchen countertops, but tested a strip first to see how it would hold up by doing things like putting a hot pan on it, water, spilling red wine, ect.....it has been down for 4 years now with two 60 pound dogs, potting training two little dogs, and the pool - I want to do the same thing with our house now! (well minus the counter tops)
We have laminate, 4 cats and a dog and I hate it. In the winter snow gets dragged in and the laminate soaked it in in some of the seams and it buckled a little bit by our front door. We have one scratch on the floor from a piece of furniture but no scratches on the floor from the critters.
One thing to consider with real hardwood is that if you plan to or eventually need to have the floors sanded, stained and resealed any animal urine spots will ruin the floor. Urine will turn either black for dog pee or neon yellow for cat pee after you've sanded it down.
Thanks for all the help everyone!
I think we are going to go with laminate mostly beacuse of budget, but also because we have a large dog and are hoping to have kids in a couple of years. Hopefully we can do our large room for between $3 and $4k.
Here is the floor we are liking the best online. We haven't seen in in person yet. Its DuPont Natural Hickory from HomeDepot.
One of the most dramatic features of this advanced laminate flooring is embossed in register texture, which matches the look of real hardwood and improves slip resistance. Interplank® design mimics the natural randomness of genuine wood, eliminating the block look of a traditional laminate floor. Its self alignment system and attached underlayment assures quick, easy installation and aid in noise reduction.
I honestly have yet to see a laminate floor that looks like real wood. They sound hollow and really are not my favorite. We toyed with the idea, but once seeing them next to real hardwoods,there's really no comparison. We have them (HW) throughout our house and have maple.
Price is always a cinsideration,but I'd get at least 3 estimates before deciding. Many people are putting home improvements aside these days,so you could get a really good deal. We've always DIY'd in our 2 houses, but this installation was best left to the pros. Installation for 2 large rooms of hardwoods was only $150.,and they did it all in one day.
Have you checked Lumber Liquidators?
So we went to HomeDepot last night and looked at the flooring I linked to above and I hated it. In person it looked like laminate (ie a picture of hardwood). This is so frustrating since everything I look at online looks completely different in stores!
We took home a bunch of samples from Home Depot though. We really did like all the hardwood they have much better than the laminate. They had some really good prices on click-lock engineered hardwood. It looks much nicer than laminte, I'm just not sure if it can be sanded down because its only .375" thick.
This is the one we are thinking about now. Home Legend Hand Scraped Maple Durham. $3.27 per sq ft.
I have laminate "hardwood" at work & a floating hardwood in my condo. The laminate is nice, but there really is no comparison in quality. My My FI has a 50 year old home with the original hardwood floors still in mint condition. The laminate is harder to clean and once its scratched or chipped, you're screwed. The floor at my work is also a dark ebony, so the scratches and imperfections are a lot more noticable. If your only option is laminate, then I'd suggest going with a light color. It's a lot easier to hide wear & tear. There's no way to repair it the way you could a hardwood floor.
Don't get your floors from home depot or lowes. It's not that there's anything wrong with them, but you can get a cheaper and better floor and a larger selection somewhere else. i.e. Lumbar liquidators or some "floor" center.
For the record, we did 2 master bedrooms, 2 bedrooms, and living room for $2500...
I've had both, and as far as looks go, hardwoods won out but as far as functionality goes, laminate all the way, baby!
Soooo easy to clean, no scratches, etc. If you have pets, I'd highly recommend laminate.
@KLP2010: Do you know how many sq ft that ended up being?? We have almost 700 sq ft to do just for our kitchen, foyer, and living room. I have heard that some of the products at HD/Lowes are lower lines of the same brand. For instance Pergo at a big box retailer is a lower quality (in order to lower price) then at an independent retailer.
I am pretty sure we are happy with the swatch that I posted above. We are going to try to take it around now to a few independent retailers to see what they may have in comparison. However, for $3,28 for click-lock hardwood (engineered that doesn't need glue) I am a little doubtful they can beat that price.
If you are going to be there for 5-10 years, I would do laminate. Hardwood does increase the value for resale but 1) you're spending more to get it and 2) it won't increase the value that much if it is all scratched to hell! My parents have hardwood and it is scratched just from their 20 pound pug.
When we moved into our current house, I was super disapointed that it is all carpet and vinyl. The entry/kitchen is a "premium" vinyl that looks like tile. I thought it looked cheap and made FI promise me we could get hardwood inside of 3 years bc I couldn't deal. Since then after having several people compliment our "beautiful tile" (lol) and seeing my dog rrrrrruuuuunnnn and sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiide down the entry hallway I've totally changed my mind. I don't want to cringe every time I play with him. We'll leave it as-is or get laminate.
Gotta say, if you can do hard wood, do it.
They used it for hundreds of years in old houses, it's beautiful and it's a huge resale point.
The ONLY comment I have is this... is you house a slab on grade? Meaning, do you have a basement or a slab of concrete on the ground & your house is built directly on it? If you have a slab on grade the MOST important thing you need to look into is a moisture barrier! It won't matter if you put down hardwood or laminate.. if you put it directly on a slab it will absorb moisture and warp. What they used to do is put sleepers down on the concrete & lay the hardwood over it. Sleepers are sort of small pieces of wood spaced at 6 inches apart that lifted the floor off the concrete. If you don't have the ability to do this, I would look in another direction than wood.
However, if you have a basement, nevermind :)
It really depends on what kind of laminate.
FI is in the flooring business and laminate has come a LONG way. many of the newer stuff is super easy to install, they literally just click in place. It's much cheaper than hardwood.
The laminate we have in our kitchen (I believe it's Armstrong as well), one of the bedrooms and our master we have had for probably 5+ years? It's held up fantastic! No buckling, and maybe 1 or 2 dings from us dropping our Wusthof knives on them.
They're in great condition and look like the day we installed them. They are super easy to clean. We have a 65lb dog and it's taken the beating. She hates it because she can't get a grip. Hahha
Absolutely. :) I love it when Architects bring points up that most people don't think about. We just had Forbo come in yesterday for a seminar and like any good flooring company will tell you. Installation is KEY. It doesn't matter if you have the nicest most expensive floor out there in your house. If it isn't installed properly it will fail.
Thanks for all the tips! We do have a concrete slab that is above grade. I think one of the reasons we can't/won't go with hardwood is because we would have to lay 1/4" plywood and then the 1/4" hardwood. We would have to completely redo all the doors etc because there is not an extra 1/2" space between the doors and the floors!
The laminate/engineered still needs the good moisture/sound barrier. This runs about $0.50-0.60 per sq ft. We are going to get the best of the best when it comes to this no matter what we put down so it reduces sound and protects against moisture.
We are still just really debating the engineered versus laminate.
@CorgiTales: We are hoping to be in the house for 10 years. There is plenty of room for us to grow into it as a family.
After looking a bit more our priorities are:
Caszos.. not sure why, but when I looked at the photo I saw slab on grade.. hmm, maybe I have photo x-ray vision... clearly there is no kryptonite in your house :) ha.
You would totally have to undercut not only the exterior door, but all of your doors. It looks like you have around 8' clear celiling height too, so I don't know that you would want to make that anymore cramped. Makes sense as to why hardwood would be difficult for you to do.
Another thing you might like to look into is stained and honed concrete. They can pour a topping onto your existing slab, stain it, then hone it (which is essentiall buffing and polishing). You can get it in ANY color essentially and its pretty amazing looking. It can get cold, but because you are in florida, you could probably just put down a few rugs in the winter. Here is a photo of what it could look like...
Its just another option that might give you something else that is moisture reisistant, pretty darn scratch proof and beautiful.
@Gerbera.. i love that there are other architects here. I have dealt with a LOT of old buildings and see what works and what doesnt. We have done a lot of "deconstruction" of existing stuff, and it's neat to see how weather/ moisture works in a wall or in a floor!
Also caszos - if you go with the concrete, make sure that they either scarify the existing surface or add a bonding agent so that the new concrete makes a good bond with the slab! Here are a couple other pictures of the concrete:
@Ella1978: Those pictures are all so pretty! My husband actually pours concrete for a living, so I know he's capable of doing something like this. Unfortunately, it just doesn't really fit the style of our ranch house. As you can see from the first picture we do have an enclosed sun room off the back of the house and right now is has carpet. It is not raised at all above ground level so no matter what we do (flashing, gutters, sloped patio, etc) it seems to get damp out there. We will probably rip up that carpet and either finish the concrete or put something really cheap like vinyl down there.
If I were staying in my house forever, I would do the stained concrete in my basement.. I love it.. But you are right, it has to fit your style!
Sounds like laminate is your best choice. A girl I work with, she got her laminate at Big Lots (if you have them around you) and she got it super cheap. It's decent quality too, and looks great.
Yeah, I think you could also do tile in the sun room. I know tile is sort of "standard" in a lot of florida homes, and it might be something you could do that is a little dressier than vinyl.
Good luck & I can't wait to see pictures when it's done. I'm sure whatever you choose will be beautiful!!!
Well, i will tell you right now, if you have a dog, you must go laminate. My SIL's dogs tore the hell out of her nice hardwood floors. We are going with high end premium laminate with upgraded padding underneath the floor to dampen it really well. I know the lighter wood color is called "St Lucia" but we are going with the darker one.
The concrete looks awesome! my only concern is that it's, well, hard with kids. I would worry about them falling over and cracking their skull!
I LOVE the look of real hardwood floors but I don't think they are very practical for many situations. And you do have to watch gouging them.
Our high end laminate is somewhere around $2.50 or $3.50/square foot...i can't remember. Hardwood was twice that much. Installation for the whole house was $1500. Basically we are doing the front room in high end stain resistant carpet, the kitchen, living room, and hallways in premium laminate, and the stairs in the same stain resistant carpet (it would've cost an extra $1,000 just to do the staircase, AND it's slicker and I don't want to eat it with a bunch of laundry in my arms)....basically we are doing 800 square feet-ish for around $5,500 total. So, the pricing wasn't bad at all!
we bought ours here: http://floortrader.com/default.asp?id=460369
light_laminate.jpg (94.7 KB, 62 downloads) 1 year old dark_laminate.jpg (100.1 KB, 51 downloads) 1 year old
ejs, that dark laminate is beautiful. I like that they have started going with the wider board look as an option. Very pretty.
Thanks, Ella! I'm so drawn to it and can't wait to have it installed! I hate my carpet more and more each day we get paint and goo and cat barf on it =]
Also, the guy told us they are doing more variations in the patterns for laminate--so they aren't as repetitive, in order for them to mimic real wood better. Cuz i notice right away with cheap laminate that it is very patterned looking
And i'm with you on the thicker boards--i don't really like thin boards as much.
I think we finally picked something out!! We were pretty much set on laminate and were seriously looking around but everything we found that looked decent and had what we wanted (bevel edge, wide plank, etc) was almost $5 per sq. ft. I couldn't bring myself to spend that much on "fake" floors.
We went to lumber liquidators this weekend and they had some very nice engineered hardwood on sale for $2.29 per sq. ft so I think we are going to go with that. The boards are a stained maple so they said for any deep scratches we can pick up a small can of stain and just cover it up. Obviously they are probably not going to last forever, but for that price we really can't beat it.
I'll post more pictures soon!
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