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Abortion?
Hot topic, I know, I'm sorry.... but I'm really curious... so NO debating or putting down another side. Please also use the terms Pro-life/pro-choice only and avoid any "anti-choice / pro-abortion" labels or other buzz terms. Basics, clean, and respectful or I will flag.
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There is some new legislation being put out that looks at possibly making abortion illegal once a fetal heart beat has begun. Obviously, for those TTC.... hearing the heartbeat the first time is one of the most beautiful moments. Now we also have better ultrasounds etc that show the fully formed baby earlier and more clearly via 3D and 4D....
So most basically.... Has pregnancy or technology changed your opinion on abortion?
(and now I hit sumbit and hide) PLAY NICE PLEASE!
OK, I voted because I like to vote... Never been pregnant yet, but was always pro-life and I don't think anything would change my mind. I think pregnancy will enhance that feeling for me.
I can't wait to hear a heartbeat or see ultrasound images. I don't know what 4D is though!
Nope, I will always be pro choice. I vehemently disagree with the legislation because AS ALWAYS they never consider rape victims.
Other: I've got two kids (so obviously been pregnant) and technology hasn't changed my stance. Which is: it depends on the situation
I voted that I was pro-choice before and technology has not changed that. I continue to be pro-choice.
My main reason is that I refuse to tell another woman what to do with her body. My being pro-choice has nothing to do with my personal feelings on if I could ever have one or not, its simply that I feel like every woman should have the choice, pure and simple. My body is MINE and I resent being told what I can and cannot to with it.
@arenyth: Actually almost all legislations do consider health of mother and rape. As it seems that is important to you I just thought I'd let you know.
For me, abortions from rape are >1-2%.Personally, I can't condone the abortion of so many others because of that 1% let alone tell that 1% they are not as worthy just because of a tragic situation. I know my view is very controversial however I believe that abortion makes that tragic situation that much more tragic. There are also studies that have shown women who conceived via rape statistically heal faster by birthing (whether keeping or adopting the child) than those who choose abortion. I actually know a rape victim with a child and she wouldn't give her up for the world.... but again, I know my view is controversial so I'll leave it at that.
Obviously, I'm pro-life, I know one day my view will be almost unexplainably made that much more deeper when we God willing have a child. I don't think I could hear that heartbeat and then turn around and say it's ok for someone else to tear it out of them... but again, my views.
I was pro-life until an unplanned pregnancy happened to me. I was unable to bring myself to abort but I guess I saw why some women might.
I voted pro-choice and technology won't change it. I'm pregnant now and it doesn't change my view on what ANOTHER woman should be able to do with HER body. Her decision. I have no right to tell someone what to do.
@jayce: I don't see what I said as a debate. I stated a fact - I was just clarifying that most legislation (any that would be taken seriously) DOES include stipulations for life of mother and rape as no legislation would ever even make it to the floor unless it was there. I wasn't challenging her views, just letting her know that it does include Rape which is important to her. I can't for 100% say on this bill because I haven't seen a text published yet... Other than that i stated my own belief which is relevant to the topic. I re-formatted though to try and convey that better.
I am only okay with abortion in cases of rape, incest, or medical reasons.
Yes a woman has a choice, she chose to have sex and she knew the possible consequences. Can't accept the consequences? Don't play the game. It's not just "the woman's body", it's the baby's body and life.
@KLP2010: Can I then state my relevant belief that it's completely insane to allow the state to define what is or isn't rape, and who is or isn't deserving of medical relief from the consequences of being sexually assaulted? Because that's what it's coming down to.
And no, I don't think the studies you've cited are relevant unless you think legislators have a right to deny raped women the option to abort because "Looky here, this study says you'll probably be happier if you keep the baby you never asked for! Let me tell you about my friend who..."
There's another option other than "abortion" and "keep the baby". Everyone seems to ignore the option of "adoption".
FYI, your poll does not have any options for people to answer that they were pro-life, but have since changed their view to/towards a pro-choice position. Since you have two options that account for change to/towards a pro-life position, this is going to skew your results. Not that it's a random sample anyway, but still. You should at least allow for the possibility that people's experiences of pregnancy might actually make them change to a more pro-choice position.
Also, the posters above are probably referring to HR 3, a bill currently being debated in the House that would prohibit federal funding for abortion except in circumstances of "forcible rape." The bill contains no exception for the life or health of the mother, and substantially reduces current the current exception for rape or incest. To say that no legislation would make it to the floor without these exceptions is, unfortunately, factually incorrect.
Could you link to the actual legislation? As you have put it, it sounded like once a heartbeat has been established, then abortion would be illegal.
There is also legislation that could legalise the murder of doctors who provide abortions, so I'm just muddled on which bill we're now talking about.
@arenyth: It's been a lot of talk this past week and I haven't seen an actual formal "bill" yet. I can dig and see but the point of my poll was less about the legislation and more about how others may feel about abortion having impatiently waited and longed to hear their own child's heartbeat and if it 'changes' them and their views... So, I can try and find it but it's not really supposed to be pertinent to this poll/conversation other than the heartbeat is a pivotal moment for parents and babies alike.
Do you have the one about the doctors? I've heard nothing about that and it's def. not very pro-life...
Also, I work professionally in sexual-assault related research, and I am not aware of any adequately designed studies whose results suggest significant correlations between the choice to abort or carry to term a fetus conceived through sexual assault and long-term mental health outcomes of mothers. I would love to see rigorous research on this topic, but from a research-design perspective, this is an extremely difficult hypothesis to test. You can't (obviously) run control groups, and experiences of rape are highly varied, so it would be difficult to match pairs. In addition, the choice to have an abortion or carry a pregnancy to term is obviously influenced by a number of other factors (relgious affiliation, social support networks, financial position) which are themselves highly correlated with mental health outcomes. So it would be very difficult to isolate the effect of those other factors from the effect of the specific choice to abort or carry the pregnancy to term.
I'm pro-choice and technology is not going to change my view point on the issue.
The bill related to doctors is South Dakota Bill House Bill 1171 which proposes to expand the defense of justifiable homicide to include homicide in defence of an unborn fetus. It is unclear whether the bill is actually intended to legalize the homicide of abortion providers or was really just very very poorly written.
I hope I'm not offending anyone with the million posts, but since this is both an area of professional interest for me and also an area in which there are often strong claims made based on incorrect evidence, it's hard for me to stop myself!
@abbyful: We aren't debating this, or so I've been told (watch it go down that road...just WATCH), but, YES adoption is an option. But have you thought about the emotional toll of carrying a child for nine months, giving birth to it, and then watching someone take it away?I could never do that. I would rather have an abortion. Also, yes there are a lot of people out there who want to adopt, but there are far more children waiting to be adopted. Shuffled around foster homes, not wanted or able to be taken because, let's face it, our world is overpopulated. And people often don't want to adopt any baby. They want a white baby. They don't want a child of mixed race, etc etc blah blah blah. Also--the actual adoption process? It's incredibly difficult and expensive. This has good and bad points. BUT I won't go into them here...we aren't debating!
@jayce: BRAVA.
There's always some type of legislation trying to be passed somewhere banning abortion. I am pro-choice in the most literal sense: it is every woman's CHOICE, and I do not believe middle aged, middle/upper class men should have the ability to write legislation on something they have no hope of understanding. Obviously, abortion is a sad situation if it must happen, but sometimes, it is the best option for all involved, which is why I am pro-choice. Technology won't change it. Women will ALWAYS get abortions, so they may as well be legalized and safe.
@ohheavenlyday: VERY good point. Even when abortion was illegal, women were going to back alley butchers to get illegal abortions. It left women maimed, unable to bear children anymore, at a high risk of deadly infection, dead, etc. I would rather it be legal and safe.
Making it illegal isnt going to stop people from doing it.
@SoontobeMrsA: I was pro-life until one of my best friends got pregnant. :) Walking through it with her made me understand why no one can make that decision for someone else. I was so so so glad when she decided to keep her little boy, and he is a blessing in her life, but that was a choice she had to make for herself.
That said, my heart still breaks over abortion -- I just don't think that gives me the right to tell any woman that she shouldn't have the option.
I was very surprised how much my current pregnancy has shifted my views from pro-choice to pro-life. I am not religious at all, so a lot of the pro-life arguments never resonated with me, and the pro-choice argument that women should get to make all decisions related to their bodies did resonate with me. Now that I am pregnant (due date is today actually!), my views have shifted completely. I feel increibly responsible for the little person growing inside of me, and I would have no problem shifting toward legislating forced responsibility for others. I am curious whether my views will evolve more (back toward pro-choice? further toward pro-life) once the baby comes.
@historienne: The law is overly broad and vaguely written. No matter what the stance of a state legislature is, I doubt they would want an instance of passing a law making it legal to kill a doctor. You'd see them fleeing the state.
To the OP, I've always been pro-choice, technology has not made me change my mind. I've never been pregnant though if that counts for anything.
i am pro-choice and always will be for the reasons PP have stated. its not up to me to tell anyone else what to do with their bodies. the heart starts beating about 21 days after conception - this is like maybe a week or two after you find out you're pregnant. seeing the heartbeat was amazing but that's because our baby is wanted and conceived out of love and desire with planning and forethought. if my situation was different, i'd want every right to make my own choice and not have any legislative body tell me what i can or can't do.
in additional, many later abortions are performed when there is a significant genetic abnormality found in the baby that in incompatible with life. who am i (or an old man on capitol hill) to tell a woman that she must go another 20 weeks with a child who will never be able to live in the world outside her body?
i just don't see how anyone feels that they have the right to tell another what to do concerning something so important and so personal and intimate. i really can't understand that.
I am pro-choice and I will ALWAYS be pro-choice.
I have a child and I am still pro-choice. Just like I made MY decision to keep my child in difficult circumstances, I believe other pregnant women deserve to right to make THEIR own choices.
@MissHoneyBun - Yes, it would have an emotional toll. But so does having an abortion.
People want to adopt babies. Unfortunately it's harder to find homes for older kids that have entered the system because they've been taken away from the parents.
@abbyful: There are emotions involved, yes, but it's dependent upon that particular person. Do some people experience a crushing regret? I'm sure they do. For others it could be a huge relief. We a complex; our bodies and our minds aren't black and white. And yes, it's harder to find homes for older kids. It's a shame to have to take a child away from a neglectful home. It's even more shameful to bring a child into this world that you will only neglect because you didn't want it to begin with. There are so many abandoned and orphaned children in this world--and only a fraction of that number will find a loving home. :/
@MissHoneyBun - Then you can say the same for someone giving up a baby for adoption. Some people have the ability to seperate themselves from the baby growing inside them, some don't. What I'm getting at is you can't use "emotional toll" as a reason for one and not the other; both have an emotional toll and both the emotional toll can vary from woman to woman.
My fiance's cousin works for SRS; the babies are much more easily adopted than the older kids.
I've known 2 women that have put their babies up for adoption, those babies had homes even before they were born.
I had an abortion and am even more pro-choice now after having jumped through the hoops to have it done. After what I went through in a seriously liberal pro-choice state, I shudder to think what it is like for women in more conservative areas of the country.
I am pro-choice. It is not my place to make this decision for someone else.
@abbyful: Adoption is a great option if the woman is willing to go through 9 months of pregnancy, and delivering the baby. I think each person has the right to choose what to do with their own body though, and if someone doesn't want to go through all the pain & responsibility of pregnancy, labor and delivery then they should have the right to choose abortion. I would hate to have to suffer 9 months and deliver a baby after being a victim of rape.
@abbyful: "What I'm getting at is you can't use "emotional toll" as a reason for one and not the other; both have an emotional toll and both the emotional toll can vary from woman to woman."
Which is why it should be each woman's choice.
Rape was one of the reasons I mentioned that I see as "acceptable" for getting an abortion. If there is a case of rape, incest, or a medical reason; I'm acceptable of that.
However, I disagree with it used as birth control; if a woman thinks they are mature enough to have sex, they should be mature enough to accept the possible consequences. If they don't want to accept the possible consequences (including the small chance that pills/condoms/etc fail), they shouldn't be choosing to have sex. That is their "choice". When a woman gets knocked up, it's not just about the woman anymore, it's about the baby as well.
@crayfish: Thank you for having the courage to say this. I also had an abortion several years ago and I'm definitely still pro-choice. Pro-choice isn't automatic abortions, but rather the choice to have one if you feel it necessary.
@abbyful: I disagree with it used as birth control; if a woman thinks they are mature enough to have sex, they should be mature enough to accept the possible consequences. If they don't want to accept the possible consequences (including the small chance that pills/condoms/etc fail), they shouldn't be choosing to have sex.
While I personally would not use it as a form of BC, but you don't have the right to tell someone else what to do with their body was my point. It should be each person's choice.
@abbyful: Listen, I'm not going to argue with you about who feels what. If you would rather go the adoption route then that's fantastic. I would never tell someone not to. But I know myself and I could not. That's why it is a personal decision. Hence the words "pro-choice." Because it is mine, yours, and every other woman's choice.
My point is that adoption is not always buttercups and rainbows. I'm glad your FI's cousin sees children into welcoming homes, but there are still many others out there who AREN'T placed. And, let me say it again, it makes me sad to see children and teens removed from homes due to neglect and abuse. Children are to be cherished. I hate seeing kids suffer because their parents had them when they A.) were not ready (some will never be ready) or B.) never wanted them.
My SO's ex was a science experiment, of sorts. Her parents lost a child, and her father decided he wanted another one. He, being a chemist, microwaved his wife's birth control pills, rendering them useless. She was adamant about wanting an abortion, but went ahead with the birth. This girl grew up with her mother telling her how she wished she'd had an abortion, how she never wanted her, etc. etc. Her daughter was simultaneously an annoyance and entertainment. Really--when she was a teen her mother would get her drunk and take pictures of her because it was "funny." This girl is now in her 20s and severely...how shall we put it...fucked up. All personal feelings aside (because she treated my SO horribly), I pity her situation.*
NOW--this is an extreme situation, but it's not completely unheard of.
*This is a completely true story.
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