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So recently I've gotten more and more ballsy about bringing up marriage. We're coming up on one year of living together and I want to know that I can see a Marriage on the horizon. Saturday after returning from a friends wedding he brought up that we will be getting all kinds of things we need when we get married (new pots and pans, knives etc.) this got me SUPER EXCITED and I kind of got carried away with blurting out all the plans I already have in my head for our wedding.
At that point he said "can I tell you something without you getting mad?" Umm Yeah.... He said that he knew he wanted to marry me and for us to make our family together, but that my debt was why he didn't want it to be any time soon.
Let me tell you my debt situation and you Bee's tell me the honest truth, because THAT HURT when he said it.
I have paid for everything I have since I was 15, my Mom was a single parent and did the best she could. I went to College and paid for it myself with student loans and unfortunately I used credit cards for the majority of my living expenses. Those credit cards now have interest rates of 18 and 23%. Now, I find myself with about $10,000 left in student loans and $7,000 in credit card debt. I make enough money to pay more than the minimum every month and have NEVER been late on a payment. My credit score isn't perfect but it's pretty good in my opinion. Now tell me the truth is $17,000 enough to warrant him not wanting to marry me yet?
I in NO WAY expect him to pay for MY debt and I am working hard to become debt free. I also must mention that his parents paid for his school and he still managed to get himself into credit card debt by traveling and living beyond his means out of College (on a side note it really bothers me that when they visit they still pay for everything although he is almost 30). He has since paid most of his CC debt down because he makes more $$.
If I continue the way I'm going I should be debt free in 2 and 1/2 years but I don't want to wait that long to get married or at least engaged. I don't want to feel like a live-in girlfriend who's being taken advantage of.
I would totally understand if I was bad with $ and wanted him to pay my bills but I’M NOT! So Bee's give me your honest opinions, is $17,000 a lot of debt to go into a marriage with? And how would you take it if your SO said that was the reason why they didn't want to marry you yet?
Can you lay out for him how your are paying down your debt (in a visual way) and your plan to be debt free in 2 1/2 years?
Bring up that you are happy to keep finances separate after marriage, maybe even talk about the possiblity of a pre-nup?
I can understand why you are hurt about it, but my FI would be the same way because he's a very rational thinker at his core.
That is a lot of debt to go into a marraige with. Why don't you ask him if you can compromise. Let him know that you are aware of your debts and that you are working hard to pay them off. You can let him know that even if you get engaged, you can wait to get married when the debts are paid.
I definitely feel for you! Debt is not an easy topic and I know because I have some, for some of the same reasons as you. Luckily, my FI has always been aware of it and supportive and is now helping me pay some of it off since I am a student and only have a pt job. I would stress with your SO that your debt is your debt and you don't expect him to pay for it and maybe that will alleviate some of his concerns? Also, maybe if you give him a detailed plan of how soon it will be paid off that could help too? I hope it works out for the best :)
I feel that if you are paying your bills on time, then there shouldn't be a problem. I have student loan debt too, but my FH and I have an understanding that when I finish school I will pay off my student loans asap. Maybe he would feel better if the both of you went to one of those free debt management classes. Or, maybe he is using that as an excuse to throw you off because he is planning to propose soon.
Hmmm, that's interesting to hear because I am more in debt than you and I don't consider myself in WAY too much debt or bad with money (I have my student loans, car, and credit card debt) and my credit score is considered "Excellent". I can understand what he's saying because my BF has no debt right now and has mentioned things like this to me before. I think your BF is worried about it only because when you get married, I think all of your debt becomes his debt in a way that perhaps could affect his credit score? HOWEVER! I am on your side because I don't think that's too much debt or unreasonable AT ALL. There are a lot of expenses that come up in your 20s and you don't make as much money at that point in your life. I know a big reason for my CC debt is being in weddings. So no, I don't think $17,000 is a lot of debt to go into a marriage with because the majority of that is your student loans which is considered "good debt". I would clarify with him his reasoning for this. Is it because he doesn't want your debt to be part of his credit score? Is it because he thinks he'll have to pay it off? Is it because he wants to make sure you're financially responsible? What you say to him would depend on his reason I think.
I'd be PISSED. I graduated from a private liberal arts school with about $40,000 in loan debt. Pretty much everyone has student loan debt unless you went to a state school and stopped after getting your bachelor's. You do not have that much debt. Really. And as long as you're in a position to make your payments and have an end in sight for paying it off, there's no reason to keep you from getting married. I'm assuming he thinks that getting married to you, with your debt, will affect his credit score. That only happens if you jointly hold accounts. I'd find out your credit score, tell him what it is, and tell him that if it's such a big deal to him, you can keep separate accounts until you pay off your debt. Personally, I'd slap him.
It's a little unfair he wouldn't want to get engaged over your debt when part of that is from student loans. Nearly everyone who has an education left college with some debt from student loans! I would say that you appreciate his concern and you don't want him to feel responsible for your debt, and that when you sit down to figure out how to join money when you get married, you can keep separate accounts for your separate debt and make a joint account for household bills.
I told FH for the longest time that I wouldn't get married until he paid off his student loans and credit cards.
My parents always told us that you dont buy things you cant afford. Their house was paid for and when they needed a car they paid for it. When my brother went to school they paid for it etc. So i had never expierenced having $ on credit cards that you needed to pay over time or loans for school.
BUT a few years later I got over it. Not that it will take him a few years but maybe he just needs time to get use to the idea.
ps. you may want to consider consolidating your credit cards and transfer your balances to a credit card that has no interest on balance transfers for a year or whatever. The transfer fee would probably equal one month of your finance charges.
@JenBabe: Debt is a major concern when marrying a person because his/her debts automatically become each others. $17,000 in my opinion is not a lot of money and I agree with you, that was a lame excuse for not wanting to marry someone. You should speak with him, because if 17,000 is holding him back from proposing maybe he is not being too honest.
I'm really sorry to hear that. You sound like a responsible person to me who didn't have the luxury of mommy and daddy taking care of everything.
I would never consider student loan debt to be bad debt. Credit card debt of $7,000 isn't great, but I have also been in your situation. Just keep working hard at paying down that credit card debt first and foremost and you'll be rid of it in no time.
Also, I wouldn't say you are being taken advantage of by living with him. However, make sure that you are really splitting the expenses.
I had major debt when I met my now Fiance (almost husband in 9 days!!). This was not from school loans etc. Basically getting myself into trouble at age 18 with credit cards. I admitted I was totally embarassed and he was def. a huge emotional support. I had the debt paid off in no time and within just a few short months we bought a house together. If he truly loves you, he will propose despite your debt.
um, I have over 3 times that much debt and my FI is not holding that against me. I mean, I could see why he would be hesitant about marrying you if you were not paying on your debts every month or if you had insinuated that yo expected him to pay for them after you get married, but considering neither of those apply to you, I think his reaction is pretty harsh and I would be really hurt too.
I think the two of you just need to sit down and have a serious discussion. Don't come across as accusitory or angry, cause, well, you did say you wouldn't get mad. I think if you can explain to him that you are working hard to pay it off and aren't expecting him to do it for you, then maybe he might see things differently. good luck
I feel it important to mention that my credit score is better than his!
The student loans aren't the debt that's scary, it's the credit card debt. I paid for my entire college education myself with the help of a lot of student loans. I finally paid them off a couple years ago (took me ten years!) but the student loan people were so easy to work with if you need to make adjustments or late payments or whatever. I know it's not true, but I never think of student loan debt as "real" debt.
$7000 in credit card debt, with extremely high interest rates, though? Yikes. I completely understand why you had to do what you did, it's not like you were out buying designer clothes or high end electronics. But that's a lot of money.
Have you thought about consolidating your debt into one monthly payment? Do you think that would help your FI move forward? I understand his reservations because even if you keep finances separate after marriage, I think a lot of states still would recognize your debt as his debt, if something ever happened to you.
Talk to your FI. See what steps you can take with your debt so that the two of you can move forward!
My FIs debt was something that made me think twice about marrying him. He's responsible with money, but had to get through college without help from his parents, and his loans allow enough for rent/food. After awhile, I realized the poor guy wasn't getting anywhere with the debt because he just didn't have thousands of dollars to pay off the tab, so I paid it off for him with some funds I liquidated. I joked with him that he was the reason I couldn't get an Amsale Blue Label, but I'm glad that we are going into our marriage CC debt free. All I asked of him was to save those few hundred dollars a month he didn't have to put towards CC. He may go back to school next year and I am still in school, so that extra cash will help pay our mortgage. I thought about getting a prenup, but in the grand scheme of things, what I'm bringing into the marriage isn't that much.
The student loan debt is an investment on yourself. I would hope he doesn't care about that.
I really feel for you, it is so difficult to get out of CC debt unless you can just get rid of it in a lump sum. How would you pay for your wedding? Could you use money you would have used for your wedding to pay off the debt, then have a smaller wedding...or save up some more and have your wedding at a later date? I don't know if a prenup would matter, I think he's worried about the strain that $7K in CC debt will have on your married lives, not what would happen if things didn't work out.
I hope things work out!! Keep us updated!
I think your BF is being pretty unfair. You didn't go into debt buying meaningless stuff you couldn't afford, and you're in the process of actively paying it down. His position would be understandable if you were doing things to grow your debt, or expected him to handle it - but you're not and you don't.
(And it does smack a bit of hypocrisy given that the only reason he's debt free is because Mom and Dad picked up the tab for so many of his expenses.)
I am in debt, but paying it off like you are and my man just proposed... we have had discussions at length about finances and he has faith in me and is willing to marry me because he knows my work ethic and understands I would never do anything to put his financial situation in jeopardy (i.e. I would always work, even at a sh** job if I had to until my debt it paid off). Maybe you should talk to him more about it and explain to him how his decision makes you feel and that to you (at least for me it was) his feelings make you feel like he doesn't have faith in you or trust you.
I don't think you have a big debt to go into a marriage with, especially if you know that it will only take you a couple of years to pay off.
Maybe have a talk with your BF and tell him about your plan to pay off your debt? If he knows that you are financially organised, he might feel a lot better about it.
I am sorry... That is horrible! I am currently in the process of being sued $100grand (Although my side of the case is looking pretty good... The lady sueing me lied on her deposition about employment, work, etc. Even her daughter sued me for $50grand until we found out she was commiting fraud. Stupid money grubbers. I hit their Lexus SUV with a little Mazda626 - go figure. This has been going on for 3 years now) He even said he didn't want to wait to see what the outcome is of the lawsuit becuase he didn't mind helping me.
ANYWAYS - maybe that is a bad thing he cares about money? Nathan told me not to work and just go to school... And said he wants to take care of finances as we grow older. (He really wants me to be a stay at home mom but I want to get a career) IDK - I would definately talk to him about it more thoroughly. Also, it isn't about him paying for your debt. It is that your debt/credit rating/etc (I think) become one once you are married. WHICH means they can take away his things if you go bank rupt or whatever. I am not really sure how all that money stuff works. But money really shouldn't matter to him. Love conquers all. :)
Good luck!
That's unbelievable.
I have $60K in law school loans left. My FI doesn't have an issue with that. We are partners now and the money we spend, save or pay down debt with is our money, regardless of when we get married. The only difference I can see is being on the legal hook versus not. And we have faith in the stability of our relationship in the long term (which is why we're getting married).
I want to know what he's really worried about. Because this can't possibly be it.
i feel ya, girl. I have a TON more debt than that--mostly in school loans (and a small car loan), but he is being understanding about it. I told him that my school loan is something i expect to pay off all by myself, but he said that once we are married it is both of our debt and that he is willing to help me (even though I am insisting that he not--I want to pay it off on my own because it is something that only I have anything to show for). He has been very understanding about it, but I do wonder if that has ever effected his decision at all....
Perhaps if you explain to him you pay off plan he'll see that you are responsible with your money. Maybe go over with him the legal details of marrige and debt. How it will always remain in your name unless he is added to your accounts.
I think it is very rude of him to say and he clearly doesn't trust you, not the best ground to begin a marriage on. I hope you can clear this up!
EXCELLENT article, ATP2011 ... i'm sending this to my FI as a gentle reminder to figure out how much student debt he actually has!!!
@toile234 you're a gem!
@ATP2011: I don't think it's particularly helpful to post a link absent any context. Nor does the content of the article have much to add to this discussion, given that OP has pretty much nothing in common with the profiled couples.
I see student loans and credit card debt as two totally different things. I can understand him feeling uneasy about going into marriage with credit card debt, but he should be able to accept the student loans. I'd give things a little more time before you get too worried about the situation. I bet that he'll notice your savings habits even more over the next 6 months or year.
Thank you everyone, you’re really making me feel better. Sometimes it’s good to have an outside perspective because of course I see things from my side. I keep reading what I wrote and it’s making me more and more upset. We split all our household bills right down the middle and he sees me skipping girl’s nights out and I haven’t been shopping in MONTHS so that I can stick to my budget.
I get upset and jealous sometimes because I see him going to all the concerts he wants (even flights and overnight hotel stays, he’s kind of a groupie for a particular band) and I stay home to save every penny I can. He is a great boyfriend and loves and treats me really well, I trust him completely so I just can’t understand why he is using this against me.
When I told him my plan was to be debt free in 2 ½ years his reaction was like “Ok then, that’s when we’ll get married”. The majority of his married friends dated for 5-8 years before getting married so I feel like he thinks we haven’t been together long enough, but what he isn’t getting is that those couples started dating way younger than us, and in my opinion it doesn’t matter how many years you date when you know you know. He even said he knows he wants to marry me.
I’m going to nicely bring up what he said tonight and express to him how much it hurt to have him say that. One of the best things about him is that he will admit when he’s wrong and I’m hoping this will be one of those times.
If he's just not ready thats one thing but I really hate the idea of him blaming it on me.
From your title I expected a very different situation, because it can be totally understandable not to want to marry someone because of debt.
However?! From what you've said, it seems like you are more responsible with money than he is. I could get angry about his hypocrisy (which, um, I kind of am), though maybe this is part of why it seems like a lot of debt to him. To him, credit card debt is something to be accumulated by making irresponsible decisions and spending too much money, whereas to you it was something that came from having no other source of funds during college.
I would sit down and have a discussion with him about financial philosophy in general. It's something important to do before marrying someone, but also gives you a chance to explain where your debt came from and how he paid it off. It allows him to face up to the fact that his debt issued were a lot worse, and he wasn't as disciplined about digging himself out of a hole.
Maybe you end up striking a deal to wait until you've paid of half your debt, or have the total down to a certain amount. But I think with this number, the issue is more making sure he shares your level of fiscal responsibility and respects how hard you've worked. Sometimes people who have a lot of things handed to them, don't realize how hard others have worked to get to a spot that's not even as secure or debt-free. I say this being someone who has been fortuntate to have parents help with a lot when I was younger - with some people it does take some eye-opening.
To graduate from college with only $17000 of debt is not that bad at all. Student loans have very low interest rates and should not be a problem whatsoever. The credit card debt is a bit different because of the super high interest rates. If you can find a way to transfer your balance then you will be in a much better position. Many companies have 0% balance transders for 12, 18, 24 months. There is a fee included, but like a PP stated, that fee is usually less than one months interest. Debt consolidation is also a good idea.
I would just have a long discussion with him about your fiances. Show him how responsible you are being and how you plan to pay off this debt without his help. Explain to him that this debt is the small price that you have had to pay to obtain the job and financial stability that you have today and that you don't want it to interfere with moving forward with your lives. As most men do, I am sure that he is just seeing a big number and not the details. Shed light on those details for him and see how it goes.
I have 80k in student loan debt (primarily from law school) and 2K in CC debt (down from 6K last year). My FH is a career air force reservist turned firefighter who has maxxed his GI Bill so he has not an ounce of debt to his name. He also has no credit. It's a mixed bag, I guess. Anyway, if he had hesitated to propose because of my debt, I would have hesitated to say yes, and hesitated to marry him and offer him a standard of living above what he is accustomed to because of my efforts in lawschool and requisite accompanying debt. I would be very upset by these statements, and bitter about his parents paying for everything while you sit at home counting pennies. My FH and I still have separate finances, but the day we marry that is going to change, and I needed to know he was ready to take the good with the bad before I take that walk down the aisle. Good luck on your talk JenBabe, hope you guys work it out!!
@Miss Beach: No, the $17,000 is just what I have left right now. I've been out of School for 3 years and brought it down from $27,000.
@JenBabe:That would've stung me too. I have a feeling my BF would say something similar. $17,000 was the amount of my undergrad loans. With grad school I now have $52,000 in student loans and about $5500 in credit cards. I don't think it warrants not getting engaged... so you keep your money for your loans separate for a bit if that's such a big deal to him. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't let it stand in my way if I wanted to marry someone.
I don't think that's a lot of debt at all. I have more debt that that, nearly $30,000 for student loans. Plus, when I filed for divorce, I also filed for bankruptcy, so my credit right now totally sucks. It will be another 6 years before the bankruptcy is off my credit report. None of this scared Jim off at all. He was aware of my financial situation right from the very beginning, and by that I mean I told him about it probably our 2nd or 3rd date.
I used to have perfect credit with a score over 800. Jim knows that I'm working on paying off my student loans. I paid off my car loan three years ago. I don't have a credit card. I refuse to get one until I have restored my credit rating to an acceptable level. He also knows that I have a life insurance policy that will completely cover my student loan debt if something were to happen to me.
He has perfect credit. His house and his truck are paid for. He doesn't have any debt, and he pays off his credit cards every month. We both agree that we want to protect his credit score, so we're not putting my name on any of his credit cards. We are going to add my name to his bank accounts, but we only decided to do that after we confirmed doing so wouldn't affect his credit.
We've already added him to my bank accounts, because he is taking over my finances. He likes doing that stuff and I hate it. He put my student loans on Qucken and is figuring out how to pay them off more quickly.
If anyone should have been scared off, it should have been Jim, but he fell for me hard when he met me. He knows my character and he trusts me.
So, I guess, although I can see why your BF wouldn't want to take on your debt, you do have a plan for paying it off, and I can't see why that would stop him from asking you to marry him if he loves you. Because all of that stuff can be worked out and talked about, and if it cant, then how are the finances and the relationship going to work once you are married.
I understand your bfs concern but honestly I dont think that is a lot of debt. Unless you plan on going futher in debt for the wedding. A lot of students have $20,000 student loans after a bachelors degree. Maybe you can get a one year 0 interest credit card and move your debt to that for a year. Sit down with you bf and show him the pay off plan. And its not like you have to start a family tomorrow. He can start saving for the family while you work to pay of loans. A lot of my friends with similar amount of loans work 2 jobs. 1 full time and one part time. Of course they are only making $12 an hour, about.
Get ready for this...I'm about to graduate medical school with approximately $200,000 in student loan debt. This is just from medical school (my parents helped me by funding undergrad). My fiance and I are getting married in 2 weeks and he refers to this as our "mortgage without a house." Thankfully, we both realize that we will eventually be financially stable enough to pay this off, but its still a very scary number.
I think your student loans should not be a reason for waiting - your education was an investment for your future together.
Honestly, I made sure I was debt free before the wedding. I had some stupid debt, from putting too much on CC's when I started my first job. I just didn't want to make my DH pay for my stupid mistakes, that wasn't fair. On the other hand, he has some student loans still being paid off which I forgive since I know his parents weren't able to pay for his college.
But if you really feel like you're being taken advantage of by living with him when he doesn't plan to marry you anytime soon, you should seriously consider if you want to keep living there or if you should move out. Seriously. And I would be upset that a whole year has gone by of you two living together and he never brought this up before. For that whole year, you could have been working together to pay off your debt and work towards getting engaged. He chose not to say anything, so now you're a whole year behind schedule.
17K is not alot of student debt. as others have stated, see if you can consolidate the credit card debt onto somethign with a lower interest rate. I left grad school with 40K and after 3 years working have it down to 26K. I have no credit card debt. My SO graduated recently and has about 50K in loans, but I am in no way worried about helping him pay that off as soon as my debt has been paid off in about 4-5 years i figure.
So, he really needs a wake up call on the reality of student debt and that is not bad debt, it was for a reason, so you could better your quality of life. people who havent had to pay for anything in life sometimes are out to lunch when it comes to student loan issues. You get the debt so you can eventually get a higher paying job. Then paying off the loans isn't a big deal. realistically, your debt is less than a car loan.
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