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One of my thoughts is that you will NEVER find a perfect time to have a kid. You can always think of some excuse, whether it's money or career or freedom or whathaveyou. If you were to get pregnant on accident or the pill didn't work effectively, you would probably figure it out.
Now I'm not saying you should TTC at this point, but I do think it's worth having a goal in mind. Maybe you and DH should pick a date in the future -- say, 6 months -- and put it on a calendar. Decide that you will revisit the decision at that point and maybe things will be in a better place for you financially.
personally, i would go ahead and start trying now. you'll never be financially 'ready' for a kid, and but you can always make money later on, but if you wait too long you could end up missing out on being able to have kids at all. I've never met anyone who has regretted having their baby when they did, but I do know someone who waited too long and then found out she couldn't have them due to early menopause :( so get cracking i say! as soon as i'm married next year i'm going to start trying, i already wonder if i should now as i'm in my early thirties and the longer we wait the harder it gets and the more likely there is to be problems...
and i'm in a high cost city as well, so totally understand but on the bright side you're not in debt which is a great achievement!!
@Wannabe-diy-bride: I totally get that. I'm pretty sure DH won't see it like that. But it's certainly something I should talk to him about.
And, I should add, thanks to anyone who reads this ridiculously long post!! It kind of got out of hand, sorry!
You will at least have a postdoc position in a couple of years, yes? You should make $45000+ at that point in most fields. That'll be a big help!
We are in the same boat - we will be living in San Fran when we have a kid - and even being in the top 10% of wage earners in the USA does not put us in a very good position for being able to afford a 3-bedroom place plus two kids in daycare. With a TWO bedroom home being $550,000+ for a fixer-upper...we're not even sure we could afford the third bedroom for a second cild, let alone the daycare and college, etc.
Really, it comes down to sacrifice - you will only make so much money over the course of your life. You can have fewer children later and live in the better neighborhood with the better schools/save for their college, or you can live in a worse neighborhood with worse schools, not save for college, have more kids (or somewhere along the spectrum depending on the cards life deals you).
Since two kids and a bigger house puts us in a scarier financial place (ie if one of us lost our job/was unable to work, we would immediately drain savings) we are leaning towards the only one kid/smaller house/better neighborhood option.
I live in a pretty moderate COL city and husband and I make a decent combined salary, but I know we're going to struggle financially (well, maybe struggle is the wrong word, but we'll notice the added expense) so I can't even imagine living in a more expensive city with less money. That being said, people do it every day.
I checked out that link you provided, and I found it pretty shocking when they compared average home price to average household salary. I know that is somewhat skewed because people who make up the average salary count may not also own houses, but still! If the average home price is $600,000+ and the average household salary is $80,000/yr or less, I just don't see how people do it.
I can't help you as far as predicting how far your money will stretch, but I can second the notion that unless you have Bill Gates money, you're probably never going to feel like you have enough- and yet people do it every day.
I work in one of the top 10 cities and 60k combined would not be enough for us to consider TTC. I don't think there's ever a perfect time but at least for us we want to be able to save for college/take family vacations and 60k just would not cut it. I'm trying to think what would be our minimum ... prob 100k (fyi we make well over that now and I still thinking having a baby would be rough on our finances). I do think picking a date to reevaluate is a good idea.
Oh my gosh, are you me?
We only make a little more than you combined, but not by much, and have just started TTC-ing. We actually are still living in my parent's in-law apartment in their home while we save for a house.We live right outside of Boston - VERY expensive cost of living.
We had a hard decision to make, because I have severe PCOS and was basically given a "fertility deadline" of age 25/26 (I'm turning 24 this year). So we decided to start trying now instead of wasting time that I can never get back.
We went in with the mindset that things could be very different for us 9 months from now (and that's if we get pregnant right away, which is NOT likely). For now, we are just saving as much as we can.
I just have to have faith that everything else will fall into place. You will never feel like you have enough money to have a baby, but with the right amount of sacrifice and planning, I wholeheartedly think it's totally possible.
I think having a goal/timeline would help. Do you see yourself financially set in a few years? Is that in the foreseeable future or could you consider moving? For example, DH and I will be where we want to be financially in 3-4 years. I am going back to school for a career that will allow me to work part time and still make a considerable contrubition financially. And DH will have a few steps up working in the hospital.
I'm sure we could afford a child now but just by waiting that 3-4 years I will have a better career, we will already have a house considerably paid off, and will have no car or student loans. That puts us ahead to save for college education, take vacations, etc... which would arguably put our child ahead as well. And that puts me closer to mid 30's and DH late 30's. I am ok with that because I'd rather be 40 with a 5 year old and living comfortably then 30 and not meeting our goals or continuing to do the things we enjoy.
You will never have enough money for a chid.. simply put.... you can always need "more." Now, if it happens, you'll work it out. There's always someplace to find some extra money we don't realize we have... there's always the ability to work more and make more. Start selling Mary Kay or something easy while you're in school on the side etc... Plus, when you do get preg. you have a good 9 months to save every penny and family/friends are always good at helping get stuff for baby... plus there are foundations to help you if necessary.
Now, the reality is... you're in your 30s. Depending on how long you've been on BC you may take a good amount of time to even begin ovulating again. Then for women in their 30s it can take longer to get pregnant as well... The sad reality is... if you wait too much longer, it could be too late.... then you will be faced with super expensive fertility treatment that may very well not even work... and all that money you "saved" or more of which you earn in salary at that point will bring you right back down to where you are now.
basically, it's not an easy decision... but people making less than you do it all the time. I know plenty of families on one basic salary in DC with children and they're not in sketch areas or unhappy. On the contrary... they are happier now than ever before... But there is no such thing as a perfect time.
I worry about the exact same thing. I am turning 30 this fall and live in the most expensive city in the country (NYC) and our total income might sound impressive, but it's nothing here. It basically gets us into a small one bedroom apartment in a decent neighborhood and we would be barely scraping by every month if we had to pay for Daycare. And the catch is that we both make the same exact salary, so it wouldn't make sense for one of us to stay home. I know that in a few years I might get promoted and we might be better off financially, but that makes me wonder if I should risk waiting to get pregnant (if we decide to at all) in order for the other pieces to fall into place first.
The plan right now is to hold off, especially since we don't know for sure if babies are in our future and reassess when I'm 32. I think that's the longest I should let myself wait biologically in order to at least start trying.
Gosh, I don't have any advice, but my husband and I also live in one of those top 10s, both have secure, if not lucrative jobs that we mostly enjoy, and still don't think we really have enough to have a child. I guess we are both thrifty by nature, and are so used to putting away a good chunk every month in savings, that not being able to save as much looks very, very scary. What also scares me is that my husband could afford our mortgage payment on his salary alone (he bought it before we got married), but if he lost his job, I would not be able to pay the mortgage alone. And we live in a small condo! Oy, the anxiety. I hope you and your husband come to a mutally OK decision.
Would it be possible to look to move now, before even TTC? I admit that as much as I love our urban metro area, the cost of living and hectic pace of life is starting to wear on me, and I can't imagine trying to be zen about child-rearing in this area. :)
Thank you for posting this. I feel similar to you but I moved away from the expensive city to a much cheaper area. IF you have a job you are pretty well off here. But its a big IF. When I graduated in 09 I spent till 2011 to find a full time job that make LESS than what I had before a degree. Now I have debt, I bring in less money and I'm older. I'll be a few months from 30 when I get married. There is no way I can feel like the the time is right unless I get a new job (fingers crossed there!) or a promotion.
Oddly enough my study abroad trip to Ireland (private loan but an amazing experience) really is influencing me when I think about having children. The Irish went through so much hardship and death just to try to have a normal life. I feel like I owe it to people long past to have a family and not worry myself so much. They had a family (or else I wouldn't be here!) and they didn't have much food or decent housing. I've got a much nicer house (comparatively to the past) and I KNOW I can feed my kids. So if generations of really poor country catholic folk can manage kids during a potato famine, I think I can manage it on a tiny income and a lot of debt. I'll just make it work-- stubborn by nature I suppose :)
We live in one of the Top 10s as well, and having a kid at $60k household income would make me nervous. But it's managable, if you don't mind pinching pennies.
I know there is never a right time for a kid and never enough money. But there is also a difference between not being able to afford to go to Disneyland this year and having to open yet another credit card to have the car fixed.
OP I totally feel you. I mean on the top-10 COL cities thing and wondering if you'll ever have "enough" for what you want in life (for me, its for a house/land). Bio clock is def an important concern too. I guess the thing you have to consider is what in your lives could "give way" to make your plans happen.
I am sensitive to money/kids thing because DH's family had kids when they probably shouldn't have financially, living in this area. It's possible, but the way they did it sucks. They left a lot on their kids' shoulders.
BIG BUT though. The difference between my inlaws and other families who had less and are happy/functional, though, are distinct, from what i can tell: 1-marital communication 2-realistic goals and 3-a plan. If you communicate well, are realistic about what you might have to give up (location? house size? etc), and work with each other as a team, then you will do fine.
You are only 31. If you were 38, I might have different advice for you, but you still have plenty of time. I think you should wait a few years to get some $$ in your pocket. If you are both going to work, you will need to pay for daycare which can be up to $2000/month (that's in NY, adjust as necessary for your city). Do your parents live near by? If they could pick up some of the daycare, that could be a good option. While there is no "perfect time", I think life will be a lot easier for you if you aren't living pay check to pay check BEFORE you even have a baby. Just my 2 cents, and I am in the exact same boat as you. 33, live in the most expensive city in the US and have not started TTC quite yet because of finances. Good luck. It will all work out in the end - it always does
Thank you, everyone, for all these thoughtful responses. I really really appreciate them, even if some are hard to hear!
@crayfish: I'm in the humanities, so postdocs aren't as common. it's a possibility, but a longshot. More likely is that I'll have either a VAP or (god willing) a TT job.
Bascially, it sounds like I should talk to my doctor and figure out what she says, and use that to make a plan with DH, taking into account finances, etc. Esp. since I'm hearing conflicting info here about whether 31 is still young or OMG YOUR EGGS ARE DRYING UP RIGHT NOW!! ;)
Unless you have atleast 250k sitting in the bank then you don't have enough for a kid... put that way, I find it an unrealistic thought that at some point you "will be financially prepared"
Kids cost more than you have pretty much regardless of what you make/have in the bank.
I would start TTC when ya'll are ready emotionally for a child.. as in you're ready to set your wants & selfishness aside. <-- This is when you're prepared & ready =)
Have kids. As a graduate student you should have insurance and access to reduced child care. It just gets harder as a faculty member or post doc.
Of course, I say that as a grad student who wants but hasn't had kids! I'm also in the "we don't make enough" freak out. But then, I am also still in coursework. I'm looking for after qualifying exams.
@tickingclock: I seriously don't believe in the ticking clock for someone whose 31 years old. I hope to get pregnant by the end of this year at 31, hopefully delivering when I'm 32. I'm not worried at all. You still have plenty of time.
Wait.
Yes, it's true that you'll never be totally financially prepared to have a kid. But if you are breaking even every month that means you have NO extra money to allocate to child. Forget things like saving for the child's education, you don't have money for diapers or clothes. Unless you have a lot of expenses that can be easily cut from your life then hold off on having a child until you have some more money in the bank. I think it's extremely unfair to the child when people have children that they aren't financially prepared to care for.
@carrieknitscake: Well, that's what I think too, but I still think it makes sense to talk to my doc about it.
@Moose1209: Excellent point. We definitely could cut more than we do. I buy new clothes with some frequency, get drinks or dinner with friends once or twice a week, go to concerts every now and again. And as I said, we do put some away for retirement every month (not that we'd cut that out, but it's not quite paycheck-to-paycheck). Still, I think it makes sense to actually start MAKING those sacrifices and saving up before we TTC.
I know there is rarely a "right time" but I definately do think there are "wrong times"
Mostly because you don't know if you two can even hold a job in the same city in the near future so that means you live on one salary (without the benefit of your husbands savings plus your school loans) or living in to different cities.
I think you need to know more "definates" and less "what ifs" before you really TTC.
To the OP - as an academic who only got her degree a year ago, trust me, there is no "good time" to have a kid!! But that being said, I know someone who was the "breadwinner" for his family (i.e. his wife did not work) and he had 3 kids while still in grad school (and no, he was not independently wealthy). I don't know how he did it, but it can be done.
I think as other PP have said, financially, there is never a "good" time, but looking at the people who have kids in or shortly out of grad school - they just make it work. They rely on family members, they sell a car, whatever, but they make it work.
And having a kid pre-tenure is no longer the career killer it once was....in fact, you can probably negotiate for a "maternity stop" in the tenure clock when going for a job.
Do what's best for you... BUT, we live in an incredibly expensive city too (how did the Seattle area not make that list?), and our combined income is about the same as you. And while yes, our stress level around our budget is a bit higher than it would be if we didn't have a child on the way, we feel very confident that we will make it work. Our lifestyle will change, but not drastically. Well, besides the time-demands, sleep deprivation & increased stress that a child brings. (haha)
How are we going to do it? By keeping it simple, remembering that babies don't NEED all the things people tell us they NEED, having jobs with flexibility & benifits, and yes, with a healthy dose of support (loaned items, child-care 1x/week, just someone to bounce ideas off of) from friends and family. Barring one of those-- well, maybe we wouldn't be able to do it. But we do have those things to be grateful for, and that's how we're able to have a kid right now.
Anyway, you have to do what you really feel is best for you.
Financial stresses are the main cause for divorces. Unless both of you are on the same page about starting a family, you have time to wait. I would consider 35 years old as the major cut off age to have a first child.
I think this is a personal decision that no one on these boards can help you decide. You need to listen to yourself, your gut, your husband, your doctor, and use that info to make the best decision you can make with the information you have at the moment. For example, for someone who will not be happy without children, has always wanted them, etc, it may make sense to go ahead with TTC because you just never know. 31 is young in some sense, but it isn't a guaratee of anything- meaning just because it's not late 30's, doesn't make it necessarily unlikely for you to have fertility problems; just like a 25 year old could have fertility problems as well. You won't know how difficult of a time you will have conceiving until you start trying. If you are willing to take the risk that you may have difficulty (even significant difficulty) trying in a few years, you may feel comfortable deciding to wait. If you are not willing, and do not want to risk your fertility, it might make more sense to take the risk of TTC now.
You can make anything work it's just dependent on how hard you're willing to work to make it work. This goes in both directions, with the exception of completely untreatable infertility. Weigh your options and make a thoughtful decision as this is one of the most important decisions someone can make. Good luck to you!
We don't have kids yet, nor are we TTC, but I think regardless of how much money you make, your spending will expand to fill it. Like when you get a raise, and then within a few weeks that extra $50 a week has just been absorbed into your spending and you don't feel better off.
Last year we had a combined weekly income of about $1200, $350 went to rent, $150 groceries, $200 spending on 'things' $300 to bills and credit card payments, Then a bit more for groceries, vet bills, miscellaneous crap etc. etc. And we never had any money!
This year we are both studying full time and our combined weekly income is around $700, $200 for rent, $80 for groceries, $150 for bills and credit card payments, $120 for petrol, $10 each for spending money, and the rest on miscellaneous stuff. And we still have no money!
My point is, you make it work. You buy generic brands and cook more and eat out less. You buy less coffee, stretch out the time between hair cuts, buy clothes that are multifunctional and will last longer, you turn the heater off and put on a jumper instead, you plan your trips so you use the car less, you buy in bulk and you make do. :)
I think it will be the same with a kid, you just make it work.
I think that it depends on what you're willing to sacrifice. I wouldn't call 60k low income when the median household income for a few of the cities on that list is around 60k. :)
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Frequent user, posting here under a different handle for privacy reasons.
I got my period today (as expected; I'm on BCP). This morning, after the cat woke me up way too early (5:30 - thanks kitty!) I was laying in bed trying to get back to sleep and having the strangest thoughts. I kept thinking how amazing it would be if instead of PMS symtoms, I was having the symptoms of early pregnancy. My husband and I have NOT planned on TTC any time soon, so this was a surprise. But I kept thinking how great it would be, and how it would actually fit in well with my career trajectory.
When I told him about it later, he said sadly, "Maybe if I earned more money." Neither of us make a lot. I'm finishing up my PhD and have an income of about $20,000. He just started a new job that pays about $40,000, after a year of unemployment that drained his savings (but thankfully, did not send him into debt). We recently made a budget together, and figured out that between rent, food, student loan payments, small retirement savings, and other basics, we just about break even every month. We live in one of the top 10 highest cost of living cities, so that $60,000 (pre-tax) doesn't go as far as it would elsewhere.
http://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/cities-with-most-expensive-cost-of-living-2011/1.html
My hope is that in 2 years, I might have a much better income as a faculty member somewhere. But there's no guarantee of that, and no guarantee that he'd be able to find a job in the same city/region. So it doesn't really make sense to TTC now, right? But I'm 31, and I don't know when it WILL be the right time. And it's arguably better for me to have a baby before I start the tenure clock than after.
Any thoughts or advice to help me sort this out would be appreciated. If you live in a top 10 cost of living city, would this be enough for you to have a kid, or is that reckless? I want to provide well for my child, of course, but I am also afraid of waiting too long. UGH. I will talk to DH about this, of course, but I wanted to get some outside feedback first. I know his immediate reaction will be "We can't afford it," but I just want to think it through.