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@mooreofthat2: What your suggesting sounds hard to enforce. How would you classify "causing the marriage to fail"? Whoever says "I want a divorce" first?
I would just go with a more standard pre-nup like your lawyer has outlined. Look at it like an insurance policy. As was stated in another thread about pre-nups, "As soon as you get car insurance, that doesn't mean you go out and start crashing into people. It's there *in case* you need it, but hopefully you'll never have to."
You have to approach the pre-nup from a business-minded standpoint rather than an emotional one.
I am extremely pro pre-nup and I have to say no, I think that is a horrible idea. The last thing you need when going through the turmoil of the divorce is the whole " who caused it" game. I know some do a lump sum if the other spouse cheats which I don't agree with, but can understand. I'd come to an agreement on what will happen to the ring should the marriage fail and scrap the idea of a cash bonus to the "victim" Good luck to you!
Also, as for the ring I doubt the ring can be resold for the purchase price so even if it is valued for insurance purposes at $90k that doesn't necessarily mean it can be sold for that.
I would think that would fall under how you would want to split personal property. Many people look at is as a "gift" from husband to wife so technically that would be the wife's property. But if you (or your FI) wanted a clause that it would be returned to him, then that can be done as well.
Also, while these issues are not fun to discuss, you are getting the rough financial expectiation discussions out of the way before getting married which is a very good thing as it ensures you are both on the same page about your financials going forward.
I have a prenup and I don't think the divorce penalty will actually work. Plus it would be hard to inforce in court I think as well.
For instance one of you wants to stop having sex and the other person wants to leave over it. Who's in the wrong? It's a tough call.
This would be difficult. Are you saying that the prenupt would include the terms of your personal agreement or that is just between you two? What exactly causes a marriage to fail? How could that be the fault of one person? Are we talking...if one person cheats then they are at fault? If these terms are not in the prenupt.. then it is important to remember that if there is cheating or significant damage from one party to the other that causes the demise of the marriage.. there will be so much angry, frustration and sadness that it will be very difficult to have the "hurt" one keep up their end of the bargain. They will be out for revenge.
If someone needs financial incentive to make their marriage work, I'm not sure that is someone I'd want to be married to. And i algo agree that it would be hard to enforce in court. I think you just need to take your marriage on faith that both people will do whatever is necessary to make it work
Wait... what? You want your prenup to include a six-figure incentive for someone to break up the marriage?
Thank you so much for your comments and you are all correct, this would not be enforceable by law - the ring and the cash bonus were an agreement just between us and I would like to think we would honor it, I know I would! But I guess that may be the issue, no guarantee the otherwould honor it. But then again maybe this is more for me than annoying else. I don't know this whole pre-nup thing makes me not want to get married. But I understand logically that if either of us walked away now there would be no financial consequences so why does this bother me so much?
@mooreofthat2: It's bothersome because you have to discuss difficult things and you have to seperate the business side of marriage (all the assets you are coming in with) from the emotional side.
Just try and be logical about it. This is just an insurance policy, one you hope never to use. Just make sure it is in place so YOU and YOUR hard earned assets are protected should the worst happen.
@mooreofthat2: I would stick to a basic asset allocation and debt resolution prenup. Adding all of these other clauses just makes it more expensive and they are truly unenforceable.
I wouldn't do it that way... it's hard to prove who is "at fault" in a divorce, and it's possible that if the marriage were getting rocky, it would turn into a contest with each spouse trying to make the other one file for divorce first (and thus getting to walk away with large amounts of money).
I don't think a prenup will make you any more or less likely to divorce with just the regular provisions, and you don't want to get stuck in a situation where one person is staying married JUST for the financial benefits.
I think prenups are a very good idea, esp in your situation. however, I don't see how you could use money to motivate you to make the marriage work. it either works or it doesn't. just like money does not buy happiness, it is not going to help ensure a successful marriage.
I would NOT include the incentive. There shouldn't be an incentive if one party wants out - and, I also believe, that both parties are typically responsible for the breakdown of a marriage.
I am also very pro-prenup and there is nothing you should feel icky about in drafting one. I actually think they are very romantic - from the sense of - why WOULDN'T you sign one (as if to show that $$ is not the reason you are marrying - it's to be with the other person).
@mooreofthat2: Honestly, i dont see an issue with a pre-nup. If my SO had a signifcant amount of money i would sign the damn thing. I'm marrying him, not his money so what does it matter if we plan "just in case".
We DONT have alot of money but when we bought a house together i had a contract drafted so if we broke up neither one of us would get screwed over with whatever we put into the house.
i dont understand why anyone would have an issue witha prenup. Just my opinion.
I understand where you're coming from with the penalty, but I think that goes against the intent of a pre-nup. You're basically saying "Stay married to me - or else!!" when a pre-nup is really just supposed to protect the assets that you had going into the marriage. When it comes down to it, you both have to want to and be willing to make things work and if it takes a financial incentive to enforce that, then you might not be married to the right person in the first place.
The only thing I would personally want to include is a provision about what would happen in the event that we decided I should stay home to raise children and we were to get divorced. I would want to feel confident that there is wording in the pre-nup that I would be taken care of financially, at least given half of the assets earned after I stopped contributing.
You all have very good points -great actually. I have to cut the emotion out of it and put on my big girl pants and think logically. I guess I've seen too many friends live through horrible divorces where the wasband walks away with a fab career, half the marital assets and recovers in two years. The woman on the other hand has to launch a career, find a job, help the kids emotionally and do this all while paying for a $500 hour lawyer.
I plan to always work and I know that there are no guarantees but it seems like the woman gets the bad deal. I want a penalty! OMG that's sad.
I agree with all the PP, and let me just say that I can't even imagine in my own mind what this 90k ring looks like!
This sounds like a shameless excuse to post the pricetag of the ring......
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This is a controversial subject and long post - pre-nups:
I am an older bride - closer to 40 than 20 and my FH and I have each worked very hard and been rewarded very well. We are each entering the marriage with significant assets of our own - we each own real estate, investment portfolio's, retirement funds, inheritances, etc, etc. My financial advisor strongly recommended that I have a pre-nup and as a smart business woman I agree for both of us. I am all for a pre-nup but it feels so GROSS! I got the first draft back and it is 27 pages which I have not even been able to look at because it makes me sick. 27 pages - OMG. We do not live in a 50-50 state and so logically I understand that we both need this but how do I get past feeling so gross about it. I wanted something besides the pre-nup that the lawyers drafted to have an incentive for us to make this work, in sickness and in health, for better or worse, etc so I offered an agreement between us that whoever causes the marriage to fail would get a $10k bonus cash for each year that we were married plus the $90K e-ring in addition to the standard division of assets (when we are married everything from that point is 50-50 but pre-marital assets excluded). I know that no threat of financial penalty will save a failing marriage so is this totally stupid? Yes, I believe that our marriage will work forever but I am trying to put some type of incentive to having us do everything we can to work it out. What did you do?